101103 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

albertalad wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Gexora wrote...
I dunno if anybody is with me on this, but... ME always seemed to be on the optimistic side. Like in DAO everything was very grim, and Ultimate Sactifice looked awesome (I always did it before I fell in love with Loghain and went for Redeemer), and it had that feel "let's kill the archdemon, but life will still suck". And ME was like "we are intergalactic badasses who are gonna save the world and party hard afterwards". I understand the sacrifices must be made, but it just doesn't go with the tone of the series. It doesn't even go with the tone of the third game.

I disagree.

The lore and setting itself is actually pretty dark and cynical (rampant racism, no justice, corrupt totalitarian government with legalized secret police, slaver raids, genocides etc.)

The thing is Shepard kind of ruined this by seemingly being able to get away with any idealistic act without any repercussions. The endings are pretty much just that all coming back to bite him.

You got to be kidding. Sheppard lost hundreds in ME1 plus a good portion of the fleet. To top that off Sheppard dies in ME2 - that's really, really not getting away with anything. Sheppard had NO choice but make all the hard decisions thereafter, his friends dumped him, his L1s dumped him, the council believes her is a hero. The Alliance took apart everything Sheppard said and did and some how YOU think Sheppard is getting off? With what? Everyone thinks he's a trailor, he had to make the hard choice about blowing up the relay and now faces court. His ship and crew disbanded and lost to God knowns where - and few if any are in ME3. For God's sake its past time Sheoppard got a break and lived plus his crew were saft with him! That's past due for the guy! Anything less is garbage!

I would argue that letting criminals, slavers and terrorists escape only to have them 'redeem' themselves or simply 'disapear' is an example of him getting off easy..
I'd also argue taking risks that could result in the death of all life in the galaxy and having them pay off (rachni + Council) is him getting off easy.

But, if you disagree you're still supporting my point. The universe isn't fair and the ME3 endings are continuing this.

[CDRSkyShepard]

txgoldrush wrote...
Oh wait, you don't even have music or even dialogue...which can set the tone. You can't go by visuals alone, its flimsy.

Uh...in the epilogue there is no dialogue except for the adult/child exchange. No music, however epic, can't also make me feel any better about my crew being stranded. *Sings* "It's alright...because they lived happily every after anyway..."

Yeah, no. There is no "tone" except "awwww nuts" when you're never going to see the people who made all this possible ever again. this is the biggest mistake BioWare could have made: pigeonholing us into that particular plot point, no matter what. Whatever happened to choice?

Or maybe I'm just a big sap who wants to be with everyone in the end. But I just think it's a good theme: they were there for us in the beginning, and they should be there with us in this new beginning, just like they were before. Cycle complete.

[Johnnycide]

Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Also, Joker's grandkids potentially having flippers.

I'm questioning if EDI can get pregnant in the Merge ending or not.

This is Bioware we're talking about here, we all know the answer to that.

Joker's the one with the uterus?

[GodWood]

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

Modifié par GodWood, 01 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[Johnnycide]

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

I believe you answered your own question.

[Fdingo]

Wait, wait, wait...the destroy ending also means death for the Geth and EDI? Another slap in the face.

[DeinonSlayer]

albertalad wrote...

These endings just doesn't compute - any sane business would do anything to keep the majority of their customers happy with their products. Its in their own best interest. As it is with any other business. Especially in the gaming world - you mess with your fans you go broke. Call me what you will it wouldn't affect me at all - I'm talking business - you want your fans to keep coming back to your product then YOU better produce agreeable results. That's business, period. You fail to follow those rules you are no longer in business. BW doesn't have a decent ending then not one more penny from me - and I'm far from the only guy that will stick to this come hell or high water! BW you have been warned - its your jobs on the line, not mine! I can live without you and have happily! YOU, BW, cannot live without us!

I agree completely - and this is coming from someone who bought ME1, ME2, and all associated DLC for the latter (save for weapon and appearance packs). I am not amused. I'm not saying there should only be a "happy" ending (defined here as, "Shepard reunites with the crew, or what's left of it, after the end"). I'm just saying it should have been an option. I'm perfectly fine with an ending where Shepard dies to save the Normandy crew, but the fridge horror of inevitably marooning them in a scenario involving starvation and/or inbreeding after everything they've been through can only be described as a kick in the balls.

[Unit-Alpha]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Oh wait, you don't even have music or even dialogue...which can set the tone. You can't go by visuals alone, its flimsy.

Uh...in the epilogue there is no dialogue except for the adult/child exchange. No music, however epic, can't also make me feel any better about my crew being stranded. *Sings* "It's alright...because they lived happily every after anyway..."

Yeah, no. There is no "tone" except "awwww nuts" when you're never going to see the people who made all this possible ever again. this is the biggest mistake BioWare could have made: pigeonholing us into that particular plot point, no matter what. Whatever happened to choice?

Or maybe I'm just a big sap who wants to be with everyone in the end. But I just think it's a good theme: they were there for us in the beginning, and they should be there with us in this new beginning, just like they were before. Cycle complete.

Time to form the sap squad, because I am totally down for it.

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

i may be misinformed here, but doesn't the "stranded normandy" happen no matter what? (unless it gets destroyed or something. I dunno)

[humes spork]

Johnnycide wrote...

Joker's the one with the uterus?

Oh, get real. EDI would snap him like a twig.

[yoshibb]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I won't lie...

Right now, I am kind of depressed.

Will try to help:

Click here

[GodWood]

Johnnycide wrote...

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

I believe you answered your own question.

No I did not.

There are multiple endings are many, many variables that determine how successful the galaxy is against the Reapers. That, is, choice. Just because Shepard can't live "happily ever after" that doesn't mean the series is now void of choice.

He's not a ****ing god.

[recentio]

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

We're saying it becasue that's the only choice many of us actually care about -- Shepard & crew alive together in just one ending. JUST ONE!

[GodWood]

ithurtz wrote...
i may be misinformed here, but doesn't the "stranded normandy" happen no matter what? (unless it gets destroyed or something. I dunno)

Apparently.

But this is something that's clearly out of Shepard's control.

[Unit-Alpha]

GodWood wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

I believe you answered your own question.

No I did not.

There are multiple endings are many, many variables that determine how successful the galaxy is against the Reapers. That, is, choice. Just because Shepard can't live "happily ever after" that doesn't mean the series is now void of choice.

He's not a ****ing god.

According to Ashley, he is.

And she's a hardcore fundamentalist, so I trust her

[Johnnycide]

GodWood wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

I believe you answered your own question.

No I did not.

There are multiple endings are many, many variables that determine how successful the galaxy is against the Reapers. That, is, choice. Just because Shepard can't live "happily ever after" that doesn't mean the series is now void of choice.

He's not a ****ing god.

No, no, three endings which have the same result are an illusion of choice.

[Unit-Alpha]

recentio wrote...

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

We're saying it becasue that's the only choice many of us actually care about -- Shepard & crew alive together in just one ending. JUST ONE!

Or dead, whatever. The marooning is just a slap to the face.

[shimpt]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

DCYNIGR8 wrote...

Is it clear where the whole "stranded Normandy" situation takes place? Is it before Shepard returns to Earth for the final battle?

As explained by a player who has beaten it... MASSIVE SPOILERS

"Some of you know the things I have posted about the endings, some think
you do. I have seen lots of people that mistranslated things I said, or
heard them from a third party. Here is the summary of each ending. Note,
no ending is Paragon or Renegade, it just depends on what you think the
future may hold.

Destroy - Guardian explains tech singularity
and you think he is full of it. So you blow up the Reapers. This blows
up the Citadel, and kills all synthetic life. Yes that includes EDI and
the Geth. It does NOT eliminate all tech based in Element Zero. I still
don't know where that idea came from.

Control - Guardian explains
tech singularity and you think "crap that might really happen" so you
decide to keep the reapers around, but you are the new master. Perhaps
you also feel bad that each reaper represents a race of life forms, and
if you killed them you would be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
So you have your body vaporized and your mind absorbed by the Citadel,
replacing the Guardian. You immediately call off the Reapers.

Synthesis
(official name, not Merge) - Guardian explains tech singularity, but
that if the organic and synthetic were united all would be raised to a
higher existence. You jump in to the crucible energy beam and are
dissolved, collector base style. A pulse then comes from the Citadel,
changing all of the Reapers along with all other life into a hybrid. The
Reapers stop attacking on their own. The Citadel is destroyed.

In
all three, the Relays are used to spread the chosen action galaxy wide.
In all three, that process destroys them. They blow up Arrival style,
but spew out the chosen type of energy, not just a blast wave like in
Arrival.

In all three, the Normandy and her crew are attempting
to flee the explosion in the Charon relay, but it catches up to them and
they crash on an alien world. "

So BW copied deus ex human revolution perfectly and then took my squad mates away great... solid ending if thatis it march 8th I will be at BW edmonton demanding my money back

[Kileyan]

Well I don't have a pre-order to cancel, and honestly hadn't really set aside time to buy the game on release day anyway.

But after all this, I'm pretty sure I'll just play with some more Skyrim mods, tinker with the Diablo 3 beta, and buy this game in 4 or 5 months. I'm in no hurry to kill the galaxy, die alone and damn my crew to some lost planet. I'll save that cheery rainbows and unicorns ending for summertime.

[txgoldrush]

Maera Imrov wrote...

On a whim I check the forums today, though I've been around very little in the past half-year. Once, a week or two ago? And I find this. Part of me doesn't want to believe it. Part of me is rather worried it's true. I missed the leaking of the scripts and whatnot and am spasmodically tabbing between this and Rift at the moment, because of an invasion, or I'd hit the YT links.

My whole take on this, is that it just seems to take the dark and take it a step too far. I like A Song of Ice and Fire. Lot of my favorite chars have ended up dead or status unknown, up through the end of A Dance with Dragons. I'm used to this sort of 'gritty reality' to war and whatnot. But even Martin at his worst "No you just didn't." moments has pulled something of this magnitude. ADwD made me angry, but in a way that made me want to buy the next books (whenever he gets to it). This just makes me not want to bother at all. I don't think that was their intent, but that's what they got.

Let me be clear. I don't have an issue with Shepard dying. In DAO I had many playthroughs. One I did the Ultimate Sacrifice. It seemed a good ending to me. Sad, but well done. I've also done the Dark Ritual, because my 'main' Warden, at the end decided to be a little selfish and keep herself and Alistair alive. I was torn on that decision though. I spent several minutes weighing it over, and to this day have a twinge of guilt about what she did. The point being, I had a choice. Several of them, in fact. They had various outcomes, but all were stained with a bit of the dark, the sad, or the vaguely unnerving. I liked that.

This? Meh. If my Shepard died with her squad, going out the way they came in, as a whole, that would be a good ending, in my opinion. I can see this working for some of my Sheps. I think the Relays blowing, the stranding of many races at Sol system, etc, is actually a valid and acceptable outcome of the story. I have zero issue with this whatsoever. I could also accept the squad being stranded, again as a whole, on Earth or whatever. What is bothering me is the bizarre bit about them somehow ending out near Pluto, being zapped to heavens only know where, and somehow managing to create a colony out of what little genetic material they have available between them. As many have said, that is not a sustainable number of people for such an endeavor. Or having my Shepard die, with the squad remaining the rest of the groups assembled in the Sol system, would also work. This would be a relative parallel to the Sacrifice ending in DAO.

I just have no love at all for what they've done to the Normandy or my squad. Shep dying, depending on the circumstances surrounding it could be a fitting end to the series. I had contemplated making a play through of such an ending, if it existed. But with this insanity with how the squad is being handled, it's zapped what drive I had to really pour as much time and dedication into this game as I did the other two.

You cannot give us squadmates, let us get connected to them and their stories to the degree we have, and then separate the PC from them and expect people to simply swallow it. It's bad enough that many of my favorites, by virtue of being from ME2, are delegated to situational status only.

Sorry, but the price of saving the galaxy may very well be BREAKING THE BONDS WITH YOUR CREW, either through Shep death, or Shep being in very different places. This alone is a powerful sentiment and if done correctly will make a great ending, especially if the best ending strikes a hopeful and not a downer tone. It would work even better if the cast realizes that they may not be together or you may not be with them after its over.

Nevermind the fact that the crew may have a strong relationship with eachother and may be very well able to live on.

This is not a happy triumphant series for the most part, hell, many of the characters stories do not end well.

You HAVE to fit the themes of the game.

[Chassthemighty]

Well looks like i'm going for destroy. I am sure as hell not merging organic life with synthetics, and really, after talking to The Prothean as he's so want to call himself (Or Vengeance or whatever strikes his mood), the Geth seem to be pretty much the same thing as the Reapers before they became the Reapers. He's right, it's either organic or synthetic, and me no likey synthetic. Weird how that's changed over the years. Used to like Legion. Now, me no trust. Gotta do what you gotta do.

[Yakko77]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

DCYNIGR8 wrote...

Is it clear where the whole "stranded Normandy" situation takes place? Is it before Shepard returns to Earth for the final battle?

As explained by a player who has beaten it... MASSIVE SPOILERS

"Some of you know the things I have posted about the endings, some think
you do. I have seen lots of people that mistranslated things I said, or
heard them from a third party. Here is the summary of each ending. Note,
no ending is Paragon or Renegade, it just depends on what you think the
future may hold.

Destroy - Guardian explains tech singularity
and you think he is full of it. So you blow up the Reapers. This blows
up the Citadel, and kills all synthetic life. Yes that includes EDI and
the Geth. It does NOT eliminate all tech based in Element Zero. I still
don't know where that idea came from.

Control - Guardian explains
tech singularity and you think "crap that might really happen" so you
decide to keep the reapers around, but you are the new master. Perhaps
you also feel bad that each reaper represents a race of life forms, and
if you killed them you would be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
So you have your body vaporized and your mind absorbed by the Citadel,
replacing the Guardian. You immediately call off the Reapers.

Synthesis
(official name, not Merge) - Guardian explains tech singularity, but
that if the organic and synthetic were united all would be raised to a
higher existence. You jump in to the crucible energy beam and are
dissolved, collector base style. A pulse then comes from the Citadel,
changing all of the Reapers along with all other life into a hybrid. The
Reapers stop attacking on their own. The Citadel is destroyed.

In
all three, the Relays are used to spread the chosen action galaxy wide.
In all three, that process destroys them. They blow up Arrival style,
but spew out the chosen type of energy, not just a blast wave like in
Arrival.

In all three, the Normandy and her crew are attempting
to flee the explosion in the Charon relay, but it catches up to them and
they crash on an alien world. "

That seems to fit most of the worries in that it's not the end of the game but what happens to the characters/squadmates we have gotten to know and love throughout 3 games.

[GodWood]

recentio wrote...
We're saying it becasue that's the only choice many of us actually care about -- Shepard & crew alive together in just one ending. JUST ONE!

Well I guess it's canon that Shepard isn't so selfish that he'd put his needs above the rest of of the galaxy's.

Personally I'd accept such an ending (Shepard lives with crew) if it meant screwing over the galaxy and letting trillions die. Keeps with the theme Bioware apparently wants to have.

[Tietj]

GodWood wrote...

Johnnycide wrote...

GodWood wrote...

ithurtz wrote...
not just separated, but with hints of inbreeding as well. What kind of sadist write forces this kind of ending at the end of a trilogy, in a series that preaches variety in choices?

Just because the endings are all doom and gloom (For Shepard & crew) that doesn't mean there is suddenly 'no choice'.

I don't know why people keep saying that.

I believe you answered your own question.

No I did not.

There are multiple endings are many, many variables that determine how successful the galaxy is against the Reapers. That, is, choice. Just because Shepard can't live "happily ever after" that doesn't mean the series is now void of choice.

He's not a ****ing god.

No, but he is kind of a Mary Sue, and I say that in the kindest way possible.  He's always been a Mary Sue character, unapologetically, and to pretend that he isn't is dishonest.  That's part of the reason players are so attached to his story.  To end it like this feels like pulling the rug out from under us, and while some people may argue that that's exactly what the fans deserve is pretentious and condescending.