101103 réponses à ce sujet

[DrFrankenseuss]

Sorry, just came back from a break. What's the source on this 2 weeks thing?

[Browneye_Vamp84]

I have been gone for a full 60 pages....anything new?

[Ishiken]

For a game that had the death scenes of Mordin, Thane and Legion be so well done, I actually shed a tear when Mordin said he would have loved to run tests on seashells. I cannot believe how much Bioware failed at the conclusion of the game. There were so many great moments in ME3.....

[Computim]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

Sorry, just came back from a break. What's the source on this 2 weeks thing?

MassEffect Twitter and Casey Hudson Twitter about PAX East announcement.

[Ishiken]

Missy_MI wrote...

Sorry about this, but for the few people who've patiently responded about the Indoc theory, I have one more question.

Shepard can only survive if you have enough EMS and pick the Destroy option right?  Can anyone confirm this?  Is it possible for Shepard to live after choosing Control or Synthesis?  If not, that makes absolutely no sense.

For the Destroy option, the Starchild makes a point of saying Shepard is partly synthetic.  Most of ME2's beginning sequence is your body being rebuilt by Cerberus.  I understand we are all about space magic now... but shouldn't Destroy be the one ending where Shepard can't possibly survive?

And because Shepard does survive, either she's a vegetable (remember the brain damage info from the Cerberus base) or the Starchild... was lying.

Or the ending was ridiculously rushed.

In my mind, I think the Starchild lied and that's the only way I can cope with it. So when I click Destroy, I believe that the blast didn't kill EDI or the Geth.

[SJK93]

Missy_MI wrote...

Sorry about this, but for the few people who've patiently responded about the Indoc theory, I have one more question.

Shepard can only survive if you have enough EMS and pick the Destroy option right?  Can anyone confirm this?  Is it possible for Shepard to live after choosing Control or Synthesis?  If not, that makes absolutely no sense.

For the Destroy option, the Starchild makes a point of saying Shepard is partly synthetic.  Most of ME2's beginning sequence is your body being rebuilt by Cerberus.  I understand we are all about space magic now... but shouldn't Destroy be the one ending where Shepard can't possibly survive?

And because Shepard does survive, either she's a vegetable (remember the brain damage info from the Cerberus base) or the Starchild... was lying.

Or the ending was ridiculously rushed.

Well, I think it might be safe to say that the Catalyst is just an idiot, or is incredibly ignorant, seeing as Shepard was able (or is able) to make peace between the Geth and Quarians, and the Catalyst just seems to ignore that fact.

Modifié par SJK93, 21 mars 2012 - 03:00 .

[Kyria Nyriese]

Darkspazztic wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

2 more weeks waiting? No f*****g problem.

^ This. 

I see nothing wrong with sitting here waiting.

With a tent and coffeemaker.

I am settled in for the long haul.  Got my soda, got my food, got my computers.  I will be here Holding the Line!

[SpaRR]

Missy_MI wrote...

Sorry about this, but for the few people who've patiently responded about the Indoc theory, I have one more question.

Shepard can only survive if you have enough EMS and pick the Destroy option right?  Can anyone confirm this?  Is it possible for Shepard to live after choosing Control or Synthesis?  If not, that makes absolutely no sense.

For the Destroy option, the Starchild makes a point of saying Shepard is partly synthetic.  Most of ME2's beginning sequence is your body being rebuilt by Cerberus.  I understand we are all about space magic now... but shouldn't Destroy be the one ending where Shepard can't possibly survive?

And because Shepard does survive, either she's a vegetable (remember the brain damage info from the Cerberus base) or the Starchild... was lying.

Or the ending was ridiculously rushed.

Shepard lives only if he destroys the Reapers , he dies if he choses the others

Modifié par SpaRR, 21 mars 2012 - 03:01 .

[christrek1982]

Ishiken wrote...

For a game that had the death scenes of Mordin, Thane and Legion be so well done, I actually shed a tear when Mordin said he would have loved to run tests on seashells. I cannot believe how much Bioware failed at the conclusion of the game. There were so many great moments in ME3.....

yeh a shame in it:unsure:

[Computim]

Missy_MI wrote...

Sorry about this, but for the few people who've patiently responded about the Indoc theory, I have one more question.

Shepard can only survive if you have enough EMS and pick the Destroy option right?  Can anyone confirm this?  Is it possible for Shepard to live after choosing Control or Synthesis?  If not, that makes absolutely no sense.

For the Destroy option, the Starchild makes a point of saying Shepard is partly synthetic.  Most of ME2's beginning sequence is your body being rebuilt by Cerberus.  I understand we are all about space magic now... but shouldn't Destroy be the one ending where Shepard can't possibly survive?

And because Shepard does survive, either she's a vegetable (remember the brain damage info from the Cerberus base) or the Starchild... was lying.

Or the ending was ridiculously rushed.

Sadly it was rediculously rushed (evidenced in Final Hours doc).  However you're right, and that goes off the fact that I really don't THINK Bioware was entirely sure they didn't want to go the indoctrination route (in fact the Final hours doc says that they toyed with an ending similar to the indoctrination theory but dumped it for lack of time)... makes you wonder doesn't it?

[unclee]

Wowlock wrote...

2 weeks is nothing ! Besides, we lose nothing ( aside from interest ) while waiting for a fix. But Bioware lose sales with every passing day while they stay silent....

I guess one day I will open the forums and will see an official thread that will either say '' well we won't be fixing things, be on your way ''' or '' We started working on it''

I just hope it will be the latter...

That's just it: they're hoping we lose interest and let this blow over in the mean time.

This thread has slown down significantly since the week of ME3's release. I haven't been outside of this thread much, so my question to everyone who has: is this thread slowing down because people ARE losing interest/letting this blow over? Or are they just branching out into other threads?

[MeldarthX]

mi_dad wrote...

Virginia Blend wrote...

Can anyone tell me where we stand after the twitter announcement?

I'm Holding the Line but what do their statements mean? Is that their final answer?



I would bet the farm atghunter would say it is a way to see if they can demoralize us.

Hold the Line



Also possibly an attempt to pacify. The tweet (while using subtle doublespeak to leave it open) heavily implied it would be an announcement of a new ending. It is not. It's a delay tactic that doesn't promise anything, and causes many people to ease off the pressure. People who think they have won tend to rest on their laurels, and this is a trick to get us to do just that. And the few that aren't fooled are demoralized, thinking that 2 weeks is a long way off. The also are attempting to burn us out with waiting. They figure we are an EXTREMELY passionate movement, and passionate movents often have trouble transitioning to long term ones. But as I've said before, this is a TERRIBLE idea. Everyone who leaves the line is probably leaving bioware for good as well. It's a stupid mistake, as people WILL give up, and that permanent money down the drain (not saying the movement will end, just that a few people will throw their hands up in disgust, and wash them of this debocle). The trick is to realize this and renew our efforts. Keep the pressure up, I may not be anywhere near as good at PR as ATG, but I have seen this behavior from many companies during my work, it's designed so people are either pacified, or settle into the long haul. and also when people settle into the long haul they let up the intensity. This is actually an extremely good post for us, as it is basically EA/Bioware pleading please let up on this pressure on us, it hurts. We need to see through this, recognize it for what it is, and press the attack. They know were hurting them, and are trying to beg for mercy, while at the same time not giving us anything. Keep up the pressure, this post reeks of desperation!

Hold the line, because space magic..... seriously smilie


Copying this over from PR sub

Keep up the work folks

HOLD THE LINE

[Jsixgun]

Great article that addresses the critics of the Retake Mass Effect movement! Author addresses the critics in a polite and intelligent manner but blows them out fo the water. A must read. Sorry if it has been posted already:

mortarnpistol.com/2012/03/20/retake-mass-effect-jsixgun-answers-the-critics/ 

[StarGateGod]

christrek1982 wrote...

SpaRR wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

It's also annoying how Joker went from being a beloved character, to being a coward, a deserter, and the potential future brood-husband for your LI.

I'm just depressed so much after read this , SCREW YOU JOKER.

did joker defanatly go through the relay or was it an FTL jump?

had to be FTL i sticking to game play physics here mass relay transport is instant FTL is not there froe the only way that wave could chase them was thru FTL

[Hydralysk]

unclee wrote...

Wowlock wrote...

2 weeks is nothing ! Besides, we lose nothing ( aside from interest ) while waiting for a fix. But Bioware lose sales with every passing day while they stay silent....

I guess one day I will open the forums and will see an official thread that will either say '' well we won't be fixing things, be on your way ''' or '' We started working on it''

I just hope it will be the latter...

That's just it: they're hoping we lose interest and let this blow over in the mean time.

This thread has slown down significantly since the week of ME3's release. I haven't been outside of this thread much, so my question to everyone who has: is this thread slowing down because people ARE losing interest/letting this blow over? Or are they just branching out into other threads?

Don't quite know, though the PR thread grows almost as fast as this one nowadays.

[Pyewacket]

SpaRR wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...

It's also annoying how Joker went from being a beloved character, to being a coward, a deserter, and the potential future brood-husband for your LI.

I'm just depressed so much after read this , SCREW YOU JOKER.

So , for my blue babies , i will hold the line.

My LI was Garrus, so....  that... er..

I honestly don't see the sex working out well for Joker. 

Hey!  Maybe that's Joker's "worst" ending!

[VivaLaWhatsername]

unclee wrote...

Wowlock wrote...

2 weeks is nothing ! Besides, we lose nothing ( aside from interest ) while waiting for a fix. But Bioware lose sales with every passing day while they stay silent....

I guess one day I will open the forums and will see an official thread that will either say '' well we won't be fixing things, be on your way ''' or '' We started working on it''

I just hope it will be the latter...

That's just it: they're hoping we lose interest and let this blow over in the mean time.

This thread has slown down significantly since the week of ME3's release. I haven't been outside of this thread much, so my question to everyone who has: is this thread slowing down because people ARE losing interest/letting this blow over? Or are they just branching out into other threads?

Well for me personally I just don't reply to lots of things, I just scroll through reading. I'm sure a lot of people do that. But I also have noticed this thread has slowed down a bit lately, the pages don't go by as fast any more

[MeldarthX]

http://www.examiner....betrayal-review

Post there - if you see fan liking subs; post here - also make subs of dislike - They want these subs to drop off the front page......Keep the pressure on....


HOLD THE LINE

[MeldarthX]

MeldarthX wrote...

mi_dad wrote...

Virginia Blend wrote...

Can anyone tell me where we stand after the twitter announcement?

I'm Holding the Line but what do their statements mean? Is that their final answer?



I would bet the farm atghunter would say it is a way to see if they can demoralize us.

Hold the Line



Also possibly an attempt to pacify. The tweet (while using subtle doublespeak to leave it open) heavily implied it would be an announcement of a new ending. It is not. It's a delay tactic that doesn't promise anything, and causes many people to ease off the pressure. People who think they have won tend to rest on their laurels, and this is a trick to get us to do just that. And the few that aren't fooled are demoralized, thinking that 2 weeks is a long way off. The also are attempting to burn us out with waiting. They figure we are an EXTREMELY passionate movement, and passionate movents often have trouble transitioning to long term ones. But as I've said before, this is a TERRIBLE idea. Everyone who leaves the line is probably leaving bioware for good as well. It's a stupid mistake, as people WILL give up, and that permanent money down the drain (not saying the movement will end, just that a few people will throw their hands up in disgust, and wash them of this debocle). The trick is to realize this and renew our efforts. Keep the pressure up, I may not be anywhere near as good at PR as ATG, but I have seen this behavior from many companies during my work, it's designed so people are either pacified, or settle into the long haul. and also when people settle into the long haul they let up the intensity. This is actually an extremely good post for us, as it is basically EA/Bioware pleading please let up on this pressure on us, it hurts. We need to see through this, recognize it for what it is, and press the attack. They know were hurting them, and are trying to beg for mercy, while at the same time not giving us anything. Keep up the pressure, this post reeks of desperation!

Hold the line, because space magic..... seriously smilie


Copying this over from PR sub

Keep up the work folks

HOLD THE LINE

[Alikan]

Leaving the line for soem R&R.

Reposting this one - check post 6.

http://social.biowar.../index/970146/1

Its funny, in a sad way but still...

[BeCeejed]

Texan here, repoting for duty and ready to hold the line.  This is my first post on the BSN as I never felt the need to make an account before this.

I love Mass effect, and have spent considerable funds buying the game FOR OTHER PEOPLE, despite my limited budget, so they could play it and not have an excuse.  I have often toted Bioware as the pinnacle of game storytelling so far.  They were never perfect, but if I looked at game companies who seemed to be going in 'the right direction', They would be it.

I wasn't even all that frustrated by DA2's ending.  Damnit, Anders! =>  

But boy, I have felt some shame for all my friends I got into the franchise who will now be experiencing just what we're feeling when they, less dedicated than I, pick the game up in a few weeks.  It just destroys any artistic integrity I felt the writers as an organization were able to pull off with such flare before.  I loved exploring how the story was able to be different and yet follow the same lines and reach the same conclusions.  

Like how if you elect to save the Rachni in ME1, one of the counsellors berates your decision...but if you elect to kill them, its another counsellor entirely who berates you, and the one who disagrees with your paragon choice chooses to remain conspicuously silent with your renegade choice, as if the two characters will always hold those differing opinions regardless of your action, and BioWare just picks which ones give shepherd a tongue lashing in order to emphasize the point that this is supposed to be a tough choice all around and also likely a no-win situation for the galaxy.

Wipe out the last of a species:  Bad.
Potentially allow for the repeat of the Rachni wars and all species wiped out: Also Bad.
Shepherd artfully written into a bad decision corner: EXCELLENT.

Their idea was communicated through excellent writing and attention to the plot and little details that was simply tossed out the window in the ending.

I don't know if DLC can fix this.  In some ways I have a hard time thinking anything can fix this.  I trusted BioWare to put their collective minds together and outthink me at every turn like they have every step of the way so far.  I'm writing a lengthy post about it but...it will have to wait for another day.

For now, I'm replaying ME1 on a character I've kept waiting in the wings, the planned male paragon pro-alien shepherd to romance Liara for the first time in any of my games.  Trying to remember why its so important to hold the line.  I'll be tweeting commentary over the next days/weeks it takes me to play the trilogy through around work, if you wanna follow me @forynia and watch/discuss some of the original game magic.  BioWare did a lot right.  I want to remind myself of what that was, to avoid crit-failing and leaving to play something else.  (as of this post BTW I'm only partly through the Eden Prime mission, LOL, so I've got a ways to go on this)

Also, for whoever added this to the Endings Reaction Know-your-meme, I adore you.  Reading this thread (and several other trheads) over the past few days and especially these 24 hours as my account was going through its 24hour gestation period was really great.  Group Therapy FTW.

Hope for a better future even more FTW.  Give us an ending like you gave use Counsellors with differing opinions but the same resulting effect on Shepherd, BioWare.  Give us an ending where you put the thought into it, not leaving it open for us to pull anything from Indoctrination to Space Magic out of our ears.  Give us an ending that causes speculation and lengthy consideration, not one that breeds wild Tangent Unicorns.

Remind me why I still love you, even after I was physically ill from the negative frustrative effects of your poorly cobbled together ending.  I'm worth it to you, I'd like to think.

And you're worth it to me, and everyone else holding the line.

[Teacher50]

SJK93 wrote...

Missy_MI wrote...

Sorry about this, but for the few people who've patiently responded about the Indoc theory, I have one more question.

Shepard can only survive if you have enough EMS and pick the Destroy option right?  Can anyone confirm this?  Is it possible for Shepard to live after choosing Control or Synthesis?  If not, that makes absolutely no sense.

For the Destroy option, the Starchild makes a point of saying Shepard is partly synthetic.  Most of ME2's beginning sequence is your body being rebuilt by Cerberus.  I understand we are all about space magic now... but shouldn't Destroy be the one ending where Shepard can't possibly survive?

And because Shepard does survive, either she's a vegetable (remember the brain damage info from the Cerberus base) or the Starchild... was lying.

Or the ending was ridiculously rushed.

Well, I think it might be safe to say that the Catalyst is just an idiot, or is incredibly ignorant, seeing as Shepard was able (or is able) to make peace between the Geth and Quarians, and the Catalyst just seems to ignore that fact.

Yes, just another hugh plot hole. Do ya'll remember what the reaper said in his dying moments?

[wook77]

ld1449 wrote...

http://www.oxm.co.uk...set-their-fans/

Respond en masse people. As Admiral Hacket said

"We need to engage the rEApers on every theater of war they open"

Make your voices heard

What a naive article. This quote especially : We're entirely entitled to completely dislike them, but that should have no bearing on what they make

Really? So the whims of the market have no bearing on what they make? I had no idea that giving the audience what they wanted didn't dictate what was produced. I thought there was something like market dynamics at play here but, nope, we're just supposed to buy whatever they want to produce.

I just see fixing the endings as a win/win. BioWare regains its audience and gets to make money on other DLC that a lot of us won't be purchasing otherwise and we get the ending(s) that should've been included in the first place.

[Darkspazztic]

Wow, I had no idea we were so close to 75k.

Great job everyone!

Now we just need to settle in, brew some coffee, and put up the tents.

And banter. Can't have a sit-in without banter.

[Doppelgaenger]

I should go.

reading material:
http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html
http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

and my own letter to Bioware:

Dear Bioware team,


I am frustrated. I really am frustrated. I spend 75€ on a game and over 100 hours playing all three parts and at the end of the experience all I can feel is an emotional disconnect? You dropped the ball. Big time. However, let me explain why I think this is.

First of I have a short list of minor complaints that I was willing to overlook as a loyal customer (My first Bioware game was Baldur's Gate 2). However, in light of the ending of the game there is more that needs changing than the end, specifically the attitude of your company.

1) The Quest log is not working. I do not enjoy it to waste time running around for nothing in a game.

(I bought a collector's edition for a significantly higher price. I found that product to be lacking in a number of ways. Don't think that I would not have spent more on it! However even what I got for 75 € was lacking.)

2) The promised comic is a preview for a comic not a finished product
3) The artbook is a preview for an artbook not a finished product
4) I really had hoped the soundtrack to be a CD
5) The "dog" is useless
6) Why has the patch velcro hooks? Thoose make it almost useless. Was it not intended to be sewn onto something?

7) Tali's face, Jacob and Thane's romance (this I cover from hearesay so excuse me If I am not correct in the Details), and the Strachild/Wintersun metal song affair show lazyness in crafting the product.

(DLC)

8) The day one DLC partially on disc controversy (granted I got that with the CE but regardless), show extremely bad manners toward your fans
9) The Omega DLC can instantly be seen as "missing" content. Sure it might not have been ready (or you might not even have started working on it) but it already sticks out that you will have to buy it. It should have been there in the first place.
10) The first thing after the credits is a message to buy DLC? Is this a bad joke? I will have to think very hard about this in particular.

In short: This behaviour will not fly Bioware. About this alone I am pretty disappointed in you. I think this is exploitation of your customers. You promise but you don't deliver and when you do, you hold parts back on purpose. You would be well advised to change this or it will cost you many customers in the long run. I truly love your products but tell me how should I tell someone that I get basically ripped of by you? I would have loved to show someone the artbook but that preview you got me would make me ashamed if I had to justify to anyone getting the CE for this.

After writing this part down I really thought about just saving my money in the future and to walk away from your company. However, there is still something that I will see through (till): The End

I finished the Dialogue with the "god child" and immediately felt confusion. I felt nothing more. Afther that I completed the ending and went straight to the forums to find out what was wrong. A lot was wrong and still is.

I will now share something with you concerning interactive storytelling. I have a good amount of experience in roleplaying games (pen and paper/larp) as storyteller and as player. This I think is very much akin to interactive storytelling like you do it in your game. I once had a stunning experience that is pretty much akin to what I experienced with the ME 3 ending. A certain adventure (this was written by an author and we had bought it) of the game "The Dark Eye" ended in flat out "tragic" failure. I as a player was upset as hell, not only because the adventure had been annoying and bad in so many ways, but because I had put effort into this only to see how nothing came out of it. I was like "**** this, I could have stayed out of the Orcland (with my character) and nothing would have been different!" There was simply no payoff. This is a lesson to be learned from true roleplaying: When you are the character you want them to succeed. The player becomes in part the figure he is playing. This goes way deeper than the attachement to a character in a movie or a book. You emphazise stronger.

This goes so far that the Vampire the Masquarade Core Rulebook give advice like this: "Acommodate Player expectations: It's their game too, remember. You have to have some kind of idea what type of game the players want to play.", "Don't forget the payoff: If the players work hard and make smart decisions, their characters' success must be in proportion of the challenges they have faced, or they will feel cheated.", and "Don't abuse your power: You are the final arbiter of events. Your word is law, but you can not use this authority to beat the characters into what you want them to do."

The same thing goes for Mass Effect 3.It is an interactive storytelling experience. The player is Commander Shepard. When you force Shepard into the "god Child" choices you betray everything outlined above. You force them (!) into your (!) conclusion and deny them any payoff (!). This does not mean that you are not crafting the story but this is interactive! Shepards fate can simply not be predetermined (obviously the real of the plausible has to set borders here) because that would mean our choices don't matter. (remember what you advertised by the way?). Forcing one ending - and yes 17 or 16 variations of three differently colored explosions leading to almost the entirely same conclusion count as ONE ending – denies the players the story they want to play. You forgot the payoff to. [at this point i wanted to write something mean about the popup at the end but I cut that out because I try to reason here] You just walk over the players work. You have to show them for what they did all this and why it mattered to make choices in the first place.

This is how I describe what is wrong here: You as storytellers have a responsibility to us as players as much as I have the responsibility towards my players. The deep emotional investment needs to be handled carefully. When you start to mistreat your customers and players this will come back to hurt you. This is over all a business relationship. We pay you to be treated right. However, the ending caused me and others much emotional distress. This is not to be taken lightly! Because when you mistreat someone in a roleplaying game (even if not on purpose!) you need to realize that they themselves are partially invested. Let that sink in.

Your customers actual lives an psyche are invested in your products. (If you don't believe me go to your forums and look or ask! I personally felt almost sick for two days and still focus on this one week after the end. God knows I have better thinks to do... maybe not, preventing one other person from going through this is worth more than my stupid science paper) You have a responsibility in an interactive story. In this game series in particular, because interactivity is the central feature. This is true roleplaying. You might not want the responsibilities coming with this but you have them and you need to address them.

So as a customer in this relation I urge you strongly to put out an alternative ending that addresses the grievances of the people in the Forums. I want to like your games I truly do, I want you to continue making games, and I want to buy them and the merchandise for them. I wan't to get invested in your games because you truly did an awesome job with them and provided not only an enjoyable but a meaningful experience. The ending of ME 3 stand in complete contradiction to everything that has come before. Please allow me to still be part of this.
Do not forget: In this relationship profit is strongly connected to brand loyalty and you can not afford to lose this loyalty by abusing it in form of exploitation (10 points above) or bad (interactive) storytelling.

This is my take on this. I apologize for the many errors, especially in punctuation, but this is not my native language.


You should make sure everyone of your employees responsible reads the following articles:


Musings of a Screenwriter: The Ending Thread

http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

This is a screenwriter and from the standpoint of his profession he explains in detail, why Shepard is not a tragic hero and what else is wrong with the endings. This is rather conventional but still an important read!

Why you enjoy art and the one problem with Mass Effect 3

http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

This is about why your players felt emotional disconnect and distress. The source is frustration and he explains how your ending fails to deliver emotionally.

This video will also go a long way of helping you to accomplish a better ending (this is not me):

Mass Effect 3 Ending: My Thoughts, What Could Have Been, What Should Have Been



I urge you strongly to take his war asset approach for your ending. Ignore the indoctrination theory, because mental battles are not the ones a player fights. This is about a real battle let us fight it.

Sincerely N.G. W.

By the ending I wish to see some day: Keelah se'lai

Logging out. See ya tomorrow.