101103 réponses à ce sujet

[MayWitcher]

Militarized wrote...

I just had a realization about the "LOTS OF SPECULATION" paper people raged over a couple days ago... the Final Hours app states that it was penned in November while Walters was agonizing over how to end the series right?

Well.... isn't November around the time it was supposed to be originally released? How did they not have a plan for how to end the game before NOVEMBER? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Isn't the entirety of the beginning phase of game development doing art and story? Wouldn't they have the end fleshed out before signifigant development even started? I'm so confused by that.... it made me rage all over again when it just clicked a couple minutes ago.

One would think that you actually know what's gonna happen in the end WHEN you start writing. The process itself is just basically filling in gaps. Sloppy storytelling.

[hector7rau]

Don't know if this has been posted before, but this girl brings some good points:

[Novouto]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I just had a realization about the "LOTS OF SPECULATION" paper people raged over a couple days ago... the Final Hours app states that it was penned in November while Walters was agonizing over how to end the series right?

Well.... isn't November around the time it was supposed to be originally released? How did they not have a plan for how to end the game before NOVEMBER? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Isn't the entirety of the beginning phase of game development doing art and story? Wouldn't they have the end fleshed out before signifigant development even started? I'm so confused by that.... it made me rage all over again when it just clicked a couple minutes ago.

Apprently they didn't. From what I read they delayed Martin Sheen's voice acting until mid November instead of August because they didn't have the ending nailed down.

Either they were lazy or incompetent, both are not good.

[ld1449]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...


I agree with what you're saying, that it seems crazy essentially, but what is to stop them really? They stated before they released the game that they won't be continuing the Mass Effect series. Everything after the scene with TIM seems to hold no purpose except to entirely exclude the possibility of further work on the series for no reason. It's like they had the story worked up to then, but instead of doing the obvious (activating the Crucible) they just destroyed everything and said The End.

Because again, this is a buisness. And it requires credibility especially in the gaming industry.

A book writer writes up a crappy ending to his book. Comes out with a new book. Some might be a little leery and decide to wait until they hear reviews but most of the time, books will sell no matter what genre it is. Because people are naturally curious and books generally sell through word of mouth. So fine, made a bad ending in one, you can bounce back in the next after word gets out "Its nothing like the last one"

Movies, even more so.

But here you have a series that people have invested time, and often hundreds of dollars into. Bioware by torching what was hyped up to be the most epic mind blowing sci-fi saga in the last decade have, in the span of a single week turned their entire company into a joke. Now even if they DIDN'T WANT to fix the endings they're gonna have to anyway because now, if they didn't realize it before, they definitely realize it now, they're screwing around with their own jobs. I have no doubt casey hudson has had an earful lately from his bosses along with mac walters and everybody else on that team.

This thing has had much bigger reprecussions than a book ever could, and its threatening alot more than just the "torch and burn" people. At this point their wrists are gonna practically be twisted to fix this.

(Or the bosses will say to hell with this and just try to ignore it and hope DA3 brings back their good name. This is not bloody likely because if they ignore it at this point, its more than just "Bioware released a bad game" Its Bioware can no longer be trusted to make good games period")

[Militarized]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

Militarized wrote...

I just had a realization about the "LOTS OF SPECULATION" paper people raged over a couple days ago... the Final Hours app states that it was penned in November while Walters was agonizing over how to end the series right?

Well.... isn't November around the time it was supposed to be originally released? How did they not have a plan for how to end the game before NOVEMBER? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Isn't the entirety of the beginning phase of game development doing art and story? Wouldn't they have the end fleshed out before signifigant development even started? I'm so confused by that.... it made me rage all over again when it just clicked a couple minutes ago.

Apprently they didn't. From what I read they delayed Martin Sheen's voice acting until mid November instead of August because they didn't have the ending nailed down.

How would you not even have it nailed down by August... unless they have a real ending up their sleeves, which let me be perfectly clear I highly doubt, I could see them delaying it because they aren't sure how to use TIM in the indoctrination thing... but frakin hell man how do you not have it nailed down by then? 

I would be embarassed, EMBARASSED if I was Walters right now. It is entirely inconceivable to me... he worked on ME2!!! Wouldn't he have SOME idea? 

[ld1449]

But don't let my belief in the previous statement dissuade you. Keep the pressure on and don't let up. *Commisar Yarrick shouts* "I will whip the first one of you to retreat!"

[Mixon]

I miss you Drew (/cry)

[WvStolzing]

Militarized wrote...
\\How did they not have a plan for how to end the game before NOVEMBER? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Apparently the ending that was outlined back in 2007 was scratched, for some reason; so they brutally retconned the Reapers' intentions etc........and, by November 2011, had no idea how to wrap the whole thing up.

This guy has a persuasive account as to how/why:

The really insulting aspect of this, is that at some point they decided simply NOT to figure out a decent ending, and thought they could get away with that, if they could sufficiently muddy the waters, with pure BS.

[DrFrankenseuss]

ld1449 wrote...

DrFrankenseuss wrote...


I agree with what you're saying, that it seems crazy essentially, but what is to stop them really? They stated before they released the game that they won't be continuing the Mass Effect series. Everything after the scene with TIM seems to hold no purpose except to entirely exclude the possibility of further work on the series for no reason. It's like they had the story worked up to then, but instead of doing the obvious (activating the Crucible) they just destroyed everything and said The End.

Because again, this is a buisness. And it requires credibility especially in the gaming industry.

A book writer writes up a crappy ending to his book. Comes out with a new book. Some might be a little leery and decide to wait until they hear reviews but most of the time, books will sell no matter what genre it is. Because people are naturally curious and books generally sell through word of mouth. So fine, made a bad ending in one, you can bounce back in the next after word gets out "Its nothing like the last one"

Movies, even more so.

But here you have a series that people have invested time, and often hundreds of dollars into. Bioware by torching what was hyped up to be the most epic mind blowing sci-fi saga in the last decade have, in the span of a single week turned their entire company into a joke. Now even if they DIDN'T WANT to fix the endings they're gonna have to anyway because now, if they didn't realize it before, they definitely realize it now, they're screwing around with their own jobs. I have no doubt casey hudson has had an earful lately from his bosses along with mac walters and everybody else on that team.

This thing has had much bigger reprecussions than a book ever could, and its threatening alot more than just the "torch and burn" people. At this point their wrists are gonna practically be twisted to fix this.

(Or the bosses will say to hell with this and just try to ignore it and hope DA3 brings back their good name. This is not bloody likely because if they ignore it at this point, its more than just "Bioware released a bad game" Its Bioware can no longer be trusted to make good games period")

Very fair point. This is a blockbuster sized budget we're talking about. Books cost nothing but a pen and paper and someone to print the first editions. So yeah, that does pretty much put down the torch and burn idea. It is just so surreal that they could release the game in such a state. Thanks for being reasonable.

[ld1449]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

Very fair point. This is a blockbuster sized budget we're talking about. Books cost nothing but a pen and paper and someone to print the first editions. So yeah, that does pretty much put down the torch and burn idea. It is just so surreal that they could release the game in such a state. Thanks for being reasonable.

Hey, its an IDEA or an explanation as to how this could hapen which everyone is entitled to seek out. But in my opinion this goes no farther than Mac Walters. Now, don't get me wrong I don't want to attack the man, but the fact of the matter is no writer wants to write up some other guys idea. Drew wrote up ME from begining to finish, but then he left.

Mac Walters was put in charge, and I believe, essentially looked at Drews' ideas and said "**** this I am not a freakin stand in for this guys vision on how this should go so I'm gonna write up something different and just as good." And essentially bit off more than he could chew.

He holed himself up at the last few weeks didn't say ANYTHING or discuss ANYTHING with his writing team on the ending and then just presented it as is. "Good enough"

Then with this being the last minute the Bioware people and EA people said "Lets hope this flies" and put it in as is. They had no more time.

So yea. In my mind the blame rests almost solely on Mac. Casey Hudson doesn't fall to far assuring and reassuring his fans that these endings were gonna be epic. He essentially shouted his mouth off while he was sipping a coffee or something instead of making sure his team was on the ball on all fronts.

That's exclusively MY belief, based on the threads and articles I've read so far.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

WvStolzing wrote...

Apparently the ending that was outlined back in 2007 was scratched, for some reason; so they brutally retconned the Reapers' intentions etc........and, by November 2011, had no idea how to wrap the whole thing up.

This guy has a persuasive account as to how/why:

The really insulting aspect of this, is that at some point they decided simply NOT to figure out a decent ending, and thought they could get away with that, if they could sufficiently muddy the waters, with pure BS.

Eh, the original ending was EVEN WORSE than our current one.  Either let dark matter destroy all suns within 100 years, or brutally kill everyone via reapers reproduction to stop it.

Yeah, we're better off, even though our current ending really suck, that would have sucked worse.

[DrFrankenseuss]

Militarized said...

How would you not even have it nailed down by August... unless they have a real ending up their sleeves, which let me be perfectly clear I highly doubt, I could see them delaying it because they aren't sure how to use TIM in the indoctrination thing... but frakin hell man how do you not have it nailed down by then?

I would be embarassed, EMBARASSED if I was Walters right now. It is entirely inconceivable to me... he worked on ME2!!! Wouldn't he have SOME idea?

Agreed. I feel bad for them and even worse because I know that nobody wants to be pitied. -.-

The crappy thing is that he wouldn't even be allowed to make a genuine apology even if he WAS forced to rush the ending. Everyone on their side has to at least feign complete loyalty to the corperation blah blah. It's prossible that he had an amazing ending that just couldn't be implemented in the game for technical reasons. I know the voice actor for Harbinger worked in ME3 as additional voices, but Harby didn't speak a word. It's possible that by the time they figured out a fix for the ME3 story it was too late to get Keith into the studio because of other commitments which just screwed up things more for the story. Snowball effect.

[WvStolzing]

Ashley Foster wrote...

If the DLC doesn't include a better ending then we simply don't buy it

The backlash will be massive, if they so much as hint as a non-ending DLC at this point.
I know that I'll be returning or selling my copy right then.

[VivaLaWhatsername]

WvStolzing wrote...

Ashley Foster wrote...

If the DLC doesn't include a better ending then we simply don't buy it

The backlash will be massive, if they so much as hint as a non-ending DLC at this point.
I know that I'll be returning or selling my copy right then.

I have actually been thinking about this for ages, IMHO I think that if Bioware/EA are smart they should hold off on releasing any DLC they may already have until they release Alternate Endings dlc

[naes1984]

WvStolzing wrote...

Ashley Foster wrote...

If the DLC doesn't include a better ending then we simply don't buy it

The backlash will be massive, if they so much as hint as a non-ending DLC at this point.
I know that I'll be returning or selling my copy right then.

They might started DLC before they released the game- they certainly didn't expect the backlash to their "brilliant," "discussion-inducing" "polarizing" "ending." This has all probably blindsided them.
.

[Atrocity]

WvStolzing wrote...

Ashley Foster wrote...

If the DLC doesn't include a better ending then we simply don't buy it

The backlash will be massive, if they so much as hint as a non-ending DLC at this point.
I know that I'll be returning or selling my copy right then.

I'll probably keep mine, since I'm something of an abused wife with Mass Effect. 'No Ah don' wanna press charches, Ah stil love 'im!' 

[ld1449]

WvStolzing wrote...

Ashley Foster wrote...

If the DLC doesn't include a better ending then we simply don't buy it

The backlash will be massive, if they so much as hint as a non-ending DLC at this point.
I know that I'll be returning or selling my copy right then.

I think, at that point, somebody in bioware who has read Helsreach (excelent book btw) is going to feel like an Armageddon Legionare, looking up to the smog covered skies as trillions of Orks pour down from Roks and debris held junk in fire and ash, shouting their warcries and essentially leaving the world of bioware looking like

http://www.flixya.co...ever1781028.jpg

This

And that's if we're still civil by that point:D

Modifié par ld1449, 21 mars 2012 - 06:18 .

[DarthLaxian]

hey...

question is:

are they smart? (after seeing the endings...well I am doubting them!)

greetings LAX
ps: line still holding I hope?

[DrFrankenseuss]

Id1449 said...

Hey, its an IDEA or an explanation as to how this could hapen which everyone is entitled to seek out. But in my opinion this goes no farther than Mac Walters. Now, don't get me wrong I don't want to attack the man, but the fact of the matter is no writer wants to write up some other guys idea. Drew wrote up ME from begining to finish, but then he left.

Mac Walters was put in charge, and I believe, essentially looked at Drews' ideas and said "**** this I am not a freakin stand in for this guys vision on how this should go so I'm gonna write up something different and just as good." And essentially bit off more than he could chew.

He holed himself up at the last few weeks didn't say ANYTHING or discuss ANYTHING with his writing team on the ending and then just presented it as is. "Good enough"

Then with this being the last minute the Bioware people and EA people said "Lets hope this flies" and put it in as is. They had no more time.

So yea. In my mind the blame rests almost solely on Mac. Casey Hudson doesn't fall to far assuring and reassuring his fans that these endings were gonna be epic. He essentially shouted his mouth off while he was sipping a coffee or something instead of making sure his team was on the ball on all fronts.

That's exclusively MY belief, based on the threads and articles I've read so far.

That's insightful too. What a shame...

[WvStolzing]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Eh, the original ending was EVEN WORSE than our current one.  Either let dark matter destroy all suns within 100 years, or brutally kill everyone via reapers reproduction to stop it.

Actually we don't know this much (the guy on YT also notes that no one has seen that original document, so it's heavy speculation all the way down).

I mean, we know what the original 'galactic problem' was, but 'reaperification or bust' is just one way out of that problem. Perhaps there was another solution.

I'd definitely prefer the 'dark energy' business over Casper's idiocy.

[evisneffo]

I didn't plan to but somehow ended up skimming through the last 70 pages that appeared while I was asleep. So ...

BeCeejed wrote...

Texan here, repoting for duty and ready
to hold the line.  This is my first post on the BSN as I never felt the
need to make an account before this.

I'm a bit late, but welcome to the group! Good to have your support, though I'm sorry for the reasons that brought us all here.

Luiginius wrote...

If you go with the indoctrination version, Shepard is still taking a nap in downtown London. A worthy ending to a trilogy.

Love the heck out of this.

Troglyte wrote...

Its the journey not the destination that counts.

So come on if like the first few days of game play were great and it was just that last night that was crappy you have no right to complain, just like the passengers aboard Costa Concordia cruise ship who likely enjoyed the rest of the cruise!

I feel terrible for laughing, but so true. Evidence that a bad end really can retroactively destroy an experience.


-------------

Finally, I'm glad that PC Powerplay is (sort of) with us (used to read them faithfully back in the day), even if it's a little harsher than I would have been.

Don't give up, people. We'll need a lot of patience in the coming weeks, but make sure to hold on to your conviction too.

Modifié par evisneffo, 21 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[naes1984]

WvStolzing wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Eh, the original ending was EVEN WORSE than our current one.  Either let dark matter destroy all suns within 100 years, or brutally kill everyone via reapers reproduction to stop it.

Actually we don't know this much (the guy on YT also notes that no one has seen that original document, so it's heavy speculation all the way down).

I mean, we know what the original 'galactic problem' was, but 'reaperification or bust' is just one way out of that problem. Perhaps there was another solution.

I'd definitely prefer the 'dark energy' business over Casper's idiocy.

Agreed. It would at least tie into the previous game

[Spanking Machine]

hector7rau wrote...

Don't know if this has been posted before, but this girl brings some good points:

Yeah, most of what she said was exactly how I felt.