101103 réponses à ce sujet

[ZerebusPrime]

I just beat the game for myself a little while ago. I already knew what the endings would be like due to massive rampant spoilers that I gobbled up of my own accord reading this forum and this very thread topic. And yet, after finally viewing it myself...

I. Am. Stunned.

Literally.

Indoctrination theory is the only way I can make sense of everything after the near-hit by Harbinger's beam. Let it all be a hallucination with heavy symbology of a mind struggling under the concerted efforts of the Reapers to indoctrinate it. Unfortunately, Indoctrination Theory presupposes that the lead developers knew exactly what they were doing with a level of conspiratorial competence that hardly seems possible. It also renders the ending a non-ending; Shepard is still under rubble and the fight isn't over.

And yet, as we all now know thanks to the Final Hours and all the rest of this PR hooplah, the ending really is the ending and Ind. Theory probably isn't true. The Mass Effect franchise is meant to end talking to a deific level brat who appeared out of nowhere, gave no real answers, and convinces Shepard to incinerate himself in one of three colorful ways. Forget the Normandy crash landing. I don't need to rehash all that's wrong with that this late in the thread. And no, I never expected Shepard to live through this game (or Garrus, but that's neither here nor there).

Still, as far as I can tell, the ending is only the ending because it's chronologically at the end of the disk. There was no story wrap up and there is now no reason for me to play through with my other characters because the ending lacks any sort of unique payoff.

Even multiplayer, which I found to be slick and fun, has just lost a lot of its appeal to me while I try to make sense of what I just saw.

Anyway, I'm late in joining this chorus but now I'm in it. I don't know if an ending DLC is actually feasible, but I suspect someone or several someones in the EA/BioWare chain of command needs to learn the value of extending the development process to allow for each and every part of a product of a major franchise like this one to be perfect. I'd've gladly waited another year for ME3 if it meant a flawless game from start to finish. As it is, those last five to ten minutes of so-called gameplay are what I'm going to remember whenever I think of "Mass Effect" now.

I don't know. Maybe I can sleep this off. I suspect not.

[Tira_Lu]

Germany is awake and ready for duty. I could not go online for the last 24 hour. Did anything happen while I was away?

[Evindell]

TumblingBumblebee wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

TumblingBumblebee wrote...

*snip*

To wit, if you play it wrong by constantly squndering war assets, yeah, you absolutely should get a bad ending.  But If you secure a high EMS, and recruit all organizations and races, even the b=Batarians, you should get an ending which is at least mostly happy.

Asking for a happy ending (which I wouldn't spit onto... to be honest) is not sensible and goes kind of against all our protest. We are here to ask for a ending that does make sense, without the ridiculous star child and your crew "teleporting" away for unknown cowardly reasons, not one that caters to our personal tastes.

We don't deserve anything as specific as a happy ending. We deserve an ending that makes sense, if the writers will see fit to create a new one that makes sense... and doesn't deliver "happiness and blue children" I think we should suck it up and live with it... (and don't think I'll laugh about it, I like bittersweet endings, but I know how much joy a really happy one would bring me >.<)

Edit: Also, Shepard dying doesn't necessarly imply not taking into consideration all your choices throught the game.

Happy endings are not a must, however, martyrdom means nothing if there's no choice.

Look at the endings of Fallout 3 (for example): you could choose to sacrifice yourself for the good of the Wasteland and conclude the journey your father had begun, or you could send Lyons in to do it for you. Now, when I played the game the Broken Steel DLC was out, so my sacrifice didn't mean as much, however, when my brother played the game there was no ending DLC, and he still chose to walk into the chamber and kill himself for the Wastes. He capped off his character's heroic life with the ultimate act of heroism

Mass Effect 3 has three choices all consisting of "suicide". I felt nothing for my Shepard's sacrifice except rage. Because it was forced on me by game mechanics. I didn't die because of the decisions I had made in 3 as well as Mass Effect 1 and 2. My sacrifice meant nothing because it was forced.

There should be a wide spectrum of endings, but the "happy" ones should still come at a cost. Perhaps Shepard lives, but most of the crew dies, or some other such thing. But it should be possible. That way, if Shepard makes the ultimate sacrifice it actually has meaning for the player.



Also: I find it just a tad bit cruel to include so many lines about what the galaxy will be like after the war, what everyone will do, how everything will be rebuilt, and then basically take away any chance to accomplish that. It kind of kills the experience the second time through because I keep rolling my eyes and sighing in frustration.

[evisneffo]

TumblingBumblebee wrote...

We don't deserve anything as specific as a happy ending.

I agree it's not entirely helpful when many people demand very specific endings. I think though that what I would argue for is something along the lines of endings that both make sense and follow on from the themes and the logic of the series.

This would mean endings without plotholes or glaring lore contradictions, and without sudden unexplained story insertions; I also believe it would imply the possibility of a positive ending as well as a total failure ending, plus a number of things in-between, because this follows on from the series' theme of choices shaping an outcome as well as the theme of Shepard's making a career out of doing the impossible if s/he works hard enough.

[VivaLaWhatsername]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

I just beat the game for myself a little while ago. I already knew what the endings would be like due to massive rampant spoilers that I gobbled up of my own accord reading this forum and this very thread topic. And yet, after finally viewing it myself...

I. Am. Stunned.

Literally.

Indoctrination theory is the only way I can make sense of everything after the near-hit by Harbinger's beam. Let it all be a hallucination with heavy symbology of a mind struggling under the concerted efforts of the Reapers to indoctrinate it. Unfortunately, Indoctrination Theory presupposes that the lead developers knew exactly what they were doing with a level of conspiratorial competence that hardly seems possible. It also renders the ending a non-ending; Shepard is still under rubble and the fight isn't over.

And yet, as we all now know thanks to the Final Hours and all the rest of this PR hooplah, the ending really is the ending and Ind. Theory probably isn't true. The Mass Effect franchise is meant to end talking to a deific level brat who appeared out of nowhere, gave no real answers, and convinces Shepard to incinerate himself in one of three colorful ways. Forget the Normandy crash landing. I don't need to rehash all that's wrong with that this late in the thread. And no, I never expected Shepard to live through this game (or Garrus, but that's neither here nor there).

Still, as far as I can tell, the ending is only the ending because it's chronologically at the end of the disk. There was no story wrap up and there is now no reason for me to play through with my other characters because the ending lacks any sort of unique payoff.

Even multiplayer, which I found to be slick and fun, has just lost a lot of its appeal to me while I try to make sense of what I just saw.

Anyway, I'm late in joining this chorus but now I'm in it. I don't know if an ending DLC is actually feasible, but I suspect someone or several someones in the EA/BioWare chain of command needs to learn the value of extending the development process to allow for each and every part of a product of a major franchise like this one to be perfect. I'd've gladly waited another year for ME3 if it meant a flawless game from start to finish. As it is, those last five to ten minutes of so-called gameplay are what I'm going to remember whenever I think of "Mass Effect" now.

I don't know. Maybe I can sleep this off. I suspect not.

Welcome! I doubt you will be able to sleep it off, your sleep will also be about the ending <_<

[WvStolzing]

ZerebusPrime wrote...
Anyway, I'm late in joining this chorus but now I'm in it.

We're happy to welcome you in our ranks. 

Check out some of the 'link resume's that have been going around. I have a few in my signature; but there are far more comprehensive lists.

[DrFrankenseuss]

sagevallant wrote...

Something just occurred to me... if all the Relays blew up, then where did the REAPERS go in the control / synergy endings? They got no relays to return to dark space with. Are they just chilling in orbit around earth discussing where they should go? Leeching internet off the rubble of earth to try and mapquest a way home?

And in the destruction ending, what do they do with the REMAINS of the Reapers? Pieces of them just falling onto earth randomly?
.....
.....
.....
.....is this... is this a prequel to Cowboy Bebop? o.O

My headcanon says they started a melodic death metal band with Harby on vocals, Marauder Sheilds on Drums and the Three Huskateers on Lead, Rhythm and Bass Guitars. They're called The Sergeant Harby's Marauder Shields Husk Band

[chujwamdotego]

I just saw that tweety statement about 2 weeks.

I agree with people who refer those 2 weeks to release date of ME3.

But even if it's two weeks more before we hear a statement then consider this:
1. it's been already two weeks since ME3 release and time is passing very quickly,
2. ReME3 movement has achievements like any other before in game industry,
3. the more time passess the more people finish the game and join multiple forms of protest.

What I really want to say is - passing time harms Bioware/EA not us. It's their best business to come up with something.

We must not stop and be active as we have been. Maybe it would be good idea to join IGN debacle on Friday about controversy around ME 3 ending (I've read invitation yesterday somewhere on IGN site). We must not give up a field even a bit.

[TumblingBumblebee]

WvStolzing wrote...

TumblingBumblebee wrote...
]snip]

I've been trumpeting a similar notion all along; but I'm not sure I agree with your use of 'deserve' here. We're certainly not asking for any sort of specific ending; but we ought to keep this in mind as well:

The 'ending that makes sense', which is what we're campaigning for, would 'make sense', because it would follow logically from our choices up to that point. So, the 'ending that makes sense' would have to be a nothing more (nor less) than a framework for multiple endings.

But, if the endgame made proper sense, if it gave a solid 'framework' within which the story could end in a number of ways, then, there's no reason why just one of those ways shouldn't be a 'happy' ending.

I wasn't too sure about using "deserve" when I wrote that... but I agree with what you said. I wasn' trying to say a happy ending is out of question, sorry if it came out like that. Also I'm obviously in favour (as it is logical) of multiple endings.

I ended up pouring too much of my personal views into my post =/ Damn me!

Modifié par TumblingBumblebee, 21 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[Demonburnt]

Fox544 wrote...
*snip*


Speak for yourself lol. I deserve a happy ending. My day to day is bleak enough as is.

This^

Obviously we don't have to deal with enough crap during the day that we deserver to be f'ed over during our winding down time.

Modifié par Demonburnt, 21 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[Jere85]

chujwamdotego wrote...

I just saw that tweety statement about 2 weeks.

I agree with people who refer those 2 weeks to release date of ME3.

But even if it's two weeks more before we hear a statement then consider this:
1. it's been already two weeks since ME3 release and time is passing very quickly,
2. ReME3 movement has achievements like any other before in game industry,
3. the more time passess the more people finish the game and join multiple forms of protest.

What I really want to say is - passing time harms Bioware/EA not us. It's their best business to come up with something.

We must not stop and be active as we have been. Maybe it would be good idea to join IGN debacle on Friday about controversy around ME 3 ending (I've read invitation yesterday somewhere on IGN site). We must not give up a field even a bit.

This.

[VivaLaWhatsername]

Demonburnt wrote...

Fox544 wrote...
*snip*


Speak for yourself lol. I deserve a happy ending. My day to day is bleak enough as is.

This^

Obviously we don't have to deal with enough crap during the day that we deserver to be f'ed over during our winding down time.

I agree and have mentioned it many times before, and always get shot down for it to be honest.

My opinion? there is enough bleak, depressing crap in the real world why do we need the same in games/books/movies ect?

Edit: typo

Modifié par xHezz90, 21 mars 2012 - 07:22 .

[donmaciu]

I came up with something a moment ago...
If they would use Indoctrination Theory to implement the dlc, they could continue story from every ending...
- When you choose DESTROY option - Shepard wake up as himself
- Any other option - Shepard wake up as the Harbringer avatar
I wiil focus on this scenario. Shepard becomes an avatar of THE Reaper, as it turn out - willingly. He now hears Harbringer voice in his head - you can even have a conversation with you new boss.
Harbringer thinks he won, but Shepard just smiles in his very Renegade way - turns towards soldiers that are still on the scene (possibly squadmates, but that would just make it more tragic) and says: "Shoot" pointing at himself.

Remember what happened when He killed Sarus a second time? Suvereign weakened enough to be destroyed.
For this scene to work we would have needed at least small military power in form of tanks. They would finish off the Harbringer, and the road to Conduit would be clear...

This would be the ultimate sacrifice of a Renegade Shepard (only available with high renegade)
Of course that wouldn't go well with people who liked the current ending, becouse it would make every current "Paragon" ending to Renegade one ;D

Modifié par donmaciu, 21 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[-PG-Skyre]

Happy ending, sad ending...we should have them all, when you think about it...why? Because thats what we were promised. But beyond that, it needs to be an ending...not a mind screw with so many holes in it that they'd need another series of games just to explain *sigh*

[VivaLaWhatsername]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Happy ending, sad ending...we should have them all, when you think about it...why? Because thats what we were promised. But beyond that, it needs to be an ending...not a mind screw with so many holes in it that they'd need another series of games just to explain *sigh*

I agree we should have the all, like you say we were as customer and as fans promised 16 different endings which should in my opinion range from happy-omg thats so f'ed up

[JamesYHT]

go to bed, hold the line....

[Goikiu]

Goikiu from Italian Fleet reporting in.

Hold the line!

[Tyrsah]

Spanking Machine wrote...

hector7rau wrote...

Don't know if this has been posted before, but this girl brings some good points:

Yeah, most of what she said was exactly how I felt.

Nice to see another Mass Effect fangirl out there...was starting to feel out numbered O.o Yikes!

I pretty much agree with her stance entirely, though I'd like to elaborate on the end choices a little further. Personally I couldn't bring my femshep to either control the Reapers or synthesize with them (slurrification). It just felt wrong. It was a violation of everything she as a character worked for throughout this epic trilogy. When it came down to it, I didn't feel my Shep had a right to throw away the massive amount of trust placed on her to destroy the Reapers for the loose circular logic of this starchild. Yes the consequences for destruction were high and made me feel like a monster but, regardless of the choice I made, the mass relays were to be destroyed anyway with unknown collateral damage.

And that's the keyword here really. UNKOWN. Along with the rushed disjointed ending we find ourselves not speculating, but just straight guessing at what the heck happened. Where's our closure? This was supposed to be the end of Shepard's story, not an unavoidable multicolored apocalypse.

Don't get me wrong. I have an appreciation for tragedy as long as it is done well, but this in my opinion was sloppy. I know Bioware is capable of so much more than this but in the last 10 minutes they did not deliver.

I still love you Bioware! I'm just finding it very hard to like you right now. A large portion of your fanbase is willing to let you fix this so don't waste the opportunity. Second chances are rare so take it. If you don't, I'm certainly not willing to give you a third.

[Azzclown]

http://pc.gamespy.co.../1221240p1.html

[BeCeejed]

This Texan soldier is bunking down for the night. Keep on holding the line people. See you more tomorrow.

[NeverQuiteAwake]

HITMAN629 wrote...

This has probably been posted but I think it needs to be seen -

(The part on Sheps eyes sold me)

Okay, after watching this (and the video in its description), I've convinced myself that the indoctrination theory is the only reasonable answer because I simply cannot believe that Bioware did such a shoddy job with the ending.

Modifié par Little Miss Angel, 21 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[chujwamdotego]

There is an old latin proverb:
"Et Hercules nulles contra plures"
Informal translation would be "Even Hercules ca do s**t against multiple opponents"

Bioware/EA, being Hercules, will finally come up with something that will stop this whole mess, because there is no chance of winning for them.

They can of course say "no ending DLC in plans", but then we can employ our ultimate weapon of mass destruction - wallet with dollars, pounds, EURO, etc. :-)

Off to work, hear You soon.

[Thore2k10]

morning!

any news?

[VivaLaWhatsername]

This made me laugh

Also curious, where can I get the best description of the indoctrination theory? I have a feeling I should read it more thoroughly than I did the first time round.

Especially since you guys all believe it so much.

Modifié par xHezz90, 21 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[Benathorn]

Little Miss Angel wrote...

Thought people might be interested in seeing this updated version of the indoctrination theory video (not sure if it's been posted here yet): youtu.be/ythY_GkEBck

The evidence presented certainly seems strong. And if it were really true, then the Bioware writers are the most clever and most frustrating people in the world. Also, that would still mean the story hasn't been properly ended, but it's a fascinating theory all the same.

Well this person had a really good vid to show on the theory and it has really convinced me if it happens to be true.