101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Alikan]

New ending rewrite:

We will encounter a resurrected Udina and in an short autodialouge discover that he is the mastermind and controls the godchild. We will then get 2 options - A-shoot him in the head, B-beat him to death, C-commit suicide.

[galaxidj]

Trzeb wrote...

http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
Sweet Keela! could this be true? someone tell me that this could be true! If so then we've won! Probably.

I'm getting fed up with this....
Again "closure closure closure" NO not closure!
Its PROMISES that were made, we want! 16 - sixteen - 10+6 Different endings. Again D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T endings. All based on our choices throughout the Mass Effect series.

Now i actualy am getting a bit hot headed.. ima go outside and cool off for a min here.


FYI: this ranting is not ment to Trzeb, but to who ever wrote that atricle and made that vid.

Modifié par galaxidj, 21 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[Cybermortis]

Posted this on the BBC articles comments section; This is about the rights we, as CUSTOMERS, should have when computer games companies promise us one thing and give us the exact opposite.
If we were talking any other product people would say we were fully justified. But for some reason because it is 'only a game' the customer apparently is acting 'entitled' when they ask for what they were told to expect.


All this is another round of PR 'spin' from Bioware. Read closely and you will notice that they have NOT committed themselves to doing anything regarding changing the ending. Yes, you *could* read things that way if you wanted too. But its the same meaningless tripe they've been churning out for the last few weeks.

Again, it all means NOTHING. It commits them to NOTHING but DLC they already had planned.

Hold the Line!

[Bob3terd]

Till i can see for myself whats coming im gunna remain hopeful but skeptical, till then i will hold the line. On another note did we just make gaming history or to early to tell?

[Computim]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Please guys, let's not read inbetween the lines quite so much. It's incredibly positive that Bioware have come back and have accepted that they need to address the issue. They haven't given details but promise they will be given in April. Let's take their words at face value, give them a bit of trust and see what other information comes out. We will hold out for what was promised by the original game but let's not discourage them even more by nitpicking every little thing that is said and the myriad of ways that it can be taken. This is positive news - stand firm - be patient - stay civil )

I would be happy to oblige, if not for the fact that the refund window on Amazon/Origin expires the day before they make their announcement, and the most likely reason they didn't do a good job on the ending in the first place was because Electronic Arts' Fiscal Year End is March 31 and they likely wanted it out before that.

They're responding on concrete numbers, I'm responding on concrete responses.  No more ambiguity is acceptable from this customer. 

[Conspicuous Cake]

Katsumi Liqueur wrote...

Here, mate: blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

Ooh, nice!
Sure, it's nothing specific, but at least they are addressing directly to us now.

We don't really know what's going to be done about this, but at least something's going to be done!
I consider this a small victory!

[Ohpus]

mulder1199 wrote...

agreed, i'll take it, anything really.....if they wanted to do this, just patch it in at the end, another choice after elroy (the space kid) and you pick that one and boom there you are at the breathe scene, finish up the battle, score...

God, no.

If I wanted 2011: A Video Game Oddysey I would have been playing a different game.

Please get rid of god-kid talking to space-Jesus.

[Bob3terd]

Cybermortis wrote...

Posted this on the BBC articles comments section; This is about the rights we, as CUSTOMERS, should have when computer games companies promise us one thing and give us the exact opposite.
If we were talking any other product people would say we were fully justified. But for some reason because it is 'only a game' the customer apparently is acting 'entitled' when they ask for what they were told to expect.


All this is another round of PR 'spin' from Bioware. Read closely and you will notice that they have NOT committed themselves to doing anything regarding changing the ending. Yes, you *could* read things that way if you wanted too. But its the same meaningless tripe they've been churning out for the last few weeks.

Again, it all means NOTHING. It commits them to NOTHING but DLC they already had planned.

Hold the Line!

Well i jumped the gun, regrouping back in formation.

[Darth Garrus]

Hi, guys! Back to hold the line again!

[Zwei133]

I decided to reply to him. I did so in the official comment thread. If you want to read it, I have reposted here. I apologize for my own corporate friendly tone in advance. I wanted to make sure I was not being construed as one of those destructive critics.

Zwei133 wrote...

Dr. Ray Mazyka,

First off, allow me to thank you for taking the time to respond personally to the concerns and criticisms of the Mass Effect community. Secondly, I would like to offer a disclaimer; I in no way mean any offense to you or the writers and developers at BioWare with this response. I simply offer you an alternate viewpoint on the situation at hand.

Before I begin, I would to share my opinion of the video game industry as a whole. Video games are not pure art, nor are they purely consumer products. They are a unique hybrid of entertainment consumerism and artistic expression. They also bear a burden unprecedented in traditional entertainment media; the consumers of video games invest not only money (initial cost, dlc, related media such as books and comics, etc...) but a considerable amount of time. For those of us who have played Mass Effect from the first two games countless times, we have already invested countless hours of our time consuming the entertainment media you have created. This is very different than the movie or novel industry, as the entry cost into a video game is significantly higher than these traditional media and the time required to fully experience the media are also much greater. Thus, when something is perceived as disappointing in a video game, especially one with the time and monetary investment of the Mass Effect series, the impact is far greater.

Additionally, video games are an interactive medium; at least the good ones are. No game series exemplifies this better than Mass Effect, a series of games that literally change with the choices you make as the protagonist. The protagonist herself can be a great many things, from class to appearance and even gender (I will refer to Shepard as female for ease, this is not meant as a slight to the male Shepard or those who play him).

Mass Effect should have been the pinnacle of the idea of what modern interactive entertainment media strive to be.

Now, allow me to address your points.

As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.

Your humility is appreciated, and mirrored by a great many fans who are upset by the ending of the Mass Effect trilogy. It is perhaps that humility that has blinded you to the impact of the Mass Effect brand.

The Mass Effect series (barring the endings) is a beautifully crafted storytelling experience. I often describe Mass Effect as the "Choose Your Own Adventure" I always wanted. The sheer volume of choices with tangible (no matter how small) impact is astonishing. In fact, I would daresay Mass Effect has become synonymous with freedom of choice. Mass Effect tells a different story for every single person who plays it.

The characters of Mass Effect are deep and complex. The interactive gameplay, excellent writing, and great voice acting have turned these characters into friends and loved ones for the person playing their own personal story of Shepard. The sheer amount of time Mass Effect players have spent with these characters is astounding.

As such, it comes as no surprise to me that the criticism of the ending is extremely emotionally charged; we the Mass Effect community really care about the characters in the game, and especially for our heroine. We also care deeply for the freedom and dynamic storytelling experience that has been at the forefront of the first two installments of the Mass Effect series as well as the majority of the final installment in this epic tale. The fact the endings effectively made every choice we made utterly pointless is a hard pill to swallow and seems contrary to everything that I believe the series has stood for.

To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.

You have every right to be proud. Barring the last ten minutes, Mass Effect 3 is the greatest video game I have ever experienced.

You also have a right to ignore destructive criticism. On all the forums I have read, I have not found any destructive criticism, but I am sure I have only scratched the surface, so I will take your words at face value. I believe the majority of disgruntled fans want to work with BioWare, not against, to reach a resolution that all parties can benefit from.

If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.

Ray

As a senior software engineer, if I was responsible for a piece of software that had such a negative response from my firm's clients, I would be doing everything in my power to address their concerns and make it right.

As an artist, I can respect your defense of the endings (though you do have to admit there are some bugs, plot holes, oversights, what have you; but I am sure you are aware of these as they have been hashed and rehashed everywhere I look). However, your greatest artistic achievement is not the endings of this game, but rather the journey to get there. I will go into this more in a bit.

As I have already mentioned, video games are an interesting media. Video games are neither traditional software nor are they traditional art. This is especially poignant for Mass Effect, where the relationship between creator and consumer is more one of collaborative storytelling between BioWare and each individual Mass Effect player.

If you think about Mass Effect as a collaborative story, then you are not sacrificing your artistic integretiy, but rather reinforcing it by listening to the fans and ultimately adding to that story by providing more ending options.

BioWare is standing on the precipice of precedent. It has often been an innovator and thought leader in the video game industry, and now, more than ever, does BioWare need to step up and be that innovator and thought leader. It needs to understand that the true artistic brilliance of Mass Effect lies not in its pretty graphics or the red/green/blue endings, but in the collaborative story it has built with each fan. Each fan has experienced something different during the story without losing sight of the overall themes.

Let me repeat that. Each fan has experienced something different during the story without losing sight of the overall themes. Do you understand the artistic success you have achieved? True artistic success, in my opinion, occurs when you create something and those who partake of your art are able to internalize and make it mean something to them without losing your own meaning. Not only that, but you have elicited a deep emotional response from your fans with respect to your art; I personally may or may not have been on the verge of tears several times in the game and cheering out loud at others.

The biggest problem with the existing endings is that you have taken this beautiful artistic achievement and invalidated it. Maybe the fan base (myself included) missed something obvious, but the themes that you have instilled in this series are as follows:

1) Life is full of hard choices. Every choice you make will have consequences, good, bad, or both. Sacrifices must be made to achieve your goals. Sometimes they are personal and sometimes they are on a galactic scale.
2) Hard work and perseverance will win the day; never lose hope or sight of your goals.
3) If you don't like the choices you are given, there is probably another way.

These three themes seem to drive the entire Mass Effect story. Now, depending on your Paragon/Renegade play style, these themes will take on subtle nuances and be expanded upon. For example, a pure Paragon play through might stress the importance of cooperation and understanding those who are physically different than you or hold different values and beliefs than you (rather apropos given the current situation, don't you think?).

The ending of the game basically said choice is an illusion and nothing you do, no matter how hard your work, matters. Peace is a lie (to quote the Sith in SWToR). You may only choose what fate has decided you can; free will is an illusion.

If that were the entire theme of the first three games, then I would not be writing you this letter.

The endings of the game destroyed everything we (BioWare and the Mass Effect community) have achieved over our years spent together.

I am not trying to tell you to drop the existing endings (though I would be lying if I said I would miss them), but I am telling you the existing endings do not do your series justice and instead sacrifice your greatest artistic achievements in the name of art. One might even go so far as to see an analogy in this latter statement to the existing ending of the Mass Effect series; I am sure you have seen the meme to which I am referring.

I entreat you to remain true to your original artistic achievement; give the Mass Effect series endings that befit the story we (BioWare and the Mass Effect community) have told and themes we have discovered through Commander Shepard. It is my firm belief that the current endings only detract from your otherwise outstanding achievements.

Your still hopeful fan,

Zwei

Hold the line!

[Trzeb]

Benirus wrote...

Trzeb wrote...

http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
Sweet Keela! could this be true? someone tell me that this could be true! If so then we've won! Probably.

Take it with a pinch of salt, if you read the blog where the Dr talks about it it might seem like they are just "fixing" the current ending.

Hold the line until we are certain

Note my use of the word, 'probably.' I'm just so relieved that BW is at least acknowledging the fact that something was seriously wrong. But they say coming to terms and admitting to something is always the hardest part. I 'd  really like to see them take the suggested endings proposed by the a lot of the fans and somehow integrate them. Sometimes I wonder if it was their intention to have us create the ending ourselves. But then again, that would bring up the fact that they sold an incomplete product. Either way, I'm glad that they're planning to do something, I hope.

[elirian_19]

I just read the forbes article and lol'd at the title. If Dr. Ray's comments were an apology it was more along the lines of, "I'm sorry you fans don't understand how epic our endings are" instead of, "I'm sorry we didn't deliver what we promised." That's how I see it anyway.

This, it seems, is still far from over.

[Crossleft]

Ive seen a lot more depression and negativity today than I have since the first dark days when people had just beaten the game and realized what happened. And why? Because of a single typically vague PR announcement? Take heart! We're finally getting some form of tangible results! If you give up now it was all for nothing! Based on what they said there won't be anything official announced until early April. We can do this!

Hold the Line

[TSC_1]

Remember folks, vote in the poll regarding Dr. Muzyka's statement. Thanks a bunch!

[PhoenixDove1]

I have to say I'm glad the co-founder of Bioware has commented.  It makes me feel they are possibly starting to take this thing seriously.  I don't however think that providing us an explaination of the ending is enough.  They already said they were going to do that anyway.  Still, it feels like we are gaining ground but (see what I did there )  I'm holding the line until Bioware gives us what they promised, which is a direct quote, not an assumption, but a direct quote from them on all the different endings (not small differences but big differences based on player choice) and an unforgettable series for the right reasons.

Holding the line.

/salute

[mulder1199]

Computim wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Please guys, let's not read inbetween the lines quite so much. It's incredibly positive that Bioware have come back and have accepted that they need to address the issue. They haven't given details but promise they will be given in April. Let's take their words at face value, give them a bit of trust and see what other information comes out. We will hold out for what was promised by the original game but let's not discourage them even more by nitpicking every little thing that is said and the myriad of ways that it can be taken. This is positive news - stand firm - be patient - stay civil )

I would be happy to oblige, if not for the fact that the refund window on Amazon/Origin expires the day before they make their announcement, and the most likely reason they didn't do a good job on the ending in the first place was because Electronic Arts' Fiscal Year End is March 31 and they likely wanted it out before that.

They're responding on concrete numbers, I'm responding on concrete responses.  No more ambiguity is acceptable from this customer. 

also as far as fiscal years go, and the effort that would go into any dlc  and the profit that would come from it.....it would be a nice boost the first quarter of the new year....

[Benirus]

TSC_1 wrote...

Remember folks, vote in the poll regarding Dr. Muzyka's statement. Thanks a bunch!

Nice, thanks for linking.

[Denethar]

Sacred Of the Grey Wardens wrote...

Trzeb wrote...

http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
Sweet Keela! could this be true? someone tell me that this could be true! If so then we've won! Probably.

There have been a few articles like this that got posted after Ray Muzyka made his announcment, but so far nothing really solid to go on just yet. So just take this with a piece of salt for now, and if it does come true(We'll have to wait till April to see), then great. But still be cautious and try not to get your hopes up to high, could be in for a backlash if something bad happens instead of good.

Sacred, Holding the Line. and running out of salt.

Anyone else think that Bioware sees this article claiming an ending and just thinka "Well ****, this isn't good at all."

[TobiTobsen]

My main problem with Dr. Muzykas answer:

Even if you build the most beautiful house on an ancient grave, it can be as beautiful as it wants, it's still standing on an ancient grave.

I can't accept an extended explanation that builds up on the current ending, because the ending is so bad, it's ridiculous.

But that's just my opinion.

[Hazelrah]

Cybermortis wrote...

Posted this on the BBC articles comments section; This is about the rights we, as CUSTOMERS, should have when computer games companies promise us one thing and give us the exact opposite.
If we were talking any other product people would say we were fully justified. But for some reason because it is 'only a game' the customer apparently is acting 'entitled' when they ask for what they were told to expect.


All this is another round of PR 'spin' from Bioware. Read closely and you will notice that they have NOT committed themselves to doing anything regarding changing the ending. Yes, you *could* read things that way if you wanted too. But its the same meaningless tripe they've been churning out for the last few weeks.

Again, it all means NOTHING. It commits them to NOTHING but DLC they already had planned.

Hold the Line!

Is it wrong that I'm here rating you up again?

[Benirus]

Denethar wrote...

Sacred Of the Grey Wardens wrote...

Trzeb wrote...

http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
Sweet Keela! could this be true? someone tell me that this could be true! If so then we've won! Probably.

There have been a few articles like this that got posted after Ray Muzyka made his announcment, but so far nothing really solid to go on just yet. So just take this with a piece of salt for now, and if it does come true(We'll have to wait till April to see), then great. But still be cautious and try not to get your hopes up to high, could be in for a backlash if something bad happens instead of good.

Sacred, Holding the Line. and running out of salt.

Anyone else think that Bioware sees this article claiming an ending and just thinka "Well ****, this isn't good at all."

Hehehehee... Thats the dissadvantage with posting cryptic replies Seems their tactics kinda came back and bit them in the ass.

[DJBare]

Cleaned up and categorized by Gi-Joe-Ge, again thanks for your efforts, and to all those participating in this movement, we've had a few hitches along the way but you are still a credit to the movement.

Find below some important links you may want to follow.

Please donate to Child's Play to bring across our message
Retake Mass Effect - Child's Play

Polls
Poll About Your reaction on Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement on 21st March 2012
Poll About The Ending
'Official' Poll For Mass Effect 3 Ending DLC
[POLL] What exactly would you change with the ending?

Provide Bioware with your feedback
Leave your feedback on Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement from 21st March 2012
Official ME3 Suggested Changes Feedback Thread

Bioware's Promises pre-game release and their PR response analysed
Mass Effect 3 debacle - Pre-release developer quotes
EA/Bioware in Full PR Damage Control Mode ***Regularly UPDATED***

Retake Mass Effect Movement Resources
Retake Mass Effect Banner Templates
Mission Statement Thread
Mass Effect 3 Resource Site with collection of statements and reports
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Latest News
Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement on 21st March 2012
The Telegraph in UK reporting aobut our movement
Forbes on indoctrination theory
Forbes reports on Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement
BBC news technology section


Keep it civil... and hold the line!

Please do not embed or quote images, it might be seen as spam and then we run the risk of getting the thread closed
Please edit your quotes in order to reduce pyramids, this is very helpful to others reading.
Above all, be respectful to each other.

v1.17

[MysticBinary82]

Caelorummors wrote...

Whatever man. **** this ****. I can't believe it. I honestly cannot believe, with what we have given Bioware to work with (indoctrination of not only shepard but the PLAYER theirself) they refuse to actually just take it. How hard would it be to just take that and culminate everything we have done to the best ending of any video game ever.

Bioware has given us no reason to hope. Even if this were to be worked on we wouldn't get the real ending for months. I doubt I'll even care by then. They should've reacted far sooner to this outcry. It isn't worth being toyed with. Every day I talk about the endings I come to the conclusion that it cannot be anything but indoctrination and Bioware must have just been quiet so it wouldn't be ruined. This is less likely by the hour. Being civil to those not being civil with us, in that they do not engage in real discussion with the fans at all other than to say "we're listening," is a waste of time. I know you all have you hopes up. I'm sorry for you.

We won't change ME3 without drastic measure. And by the time that drastic measure is over we will have lost what we are fighting for. How long can you guys really deny that this is how the series ends? Why do you hope and trust now when Bioware has only betrayed us time and time again since joining EA? Did you not trust, hope, that Bioware would give us a good ending? This is the good ending. This is it. This is Bioware.

This relationship should be damage beyond repair. They are clearly intent on the current endings being THE endings. That alone should be so disheartening that we should all leave the series to die. We have bought a house only to find it has been rotting from the inside out. The once amazing purchase is now known to be hollow and unforgivable. It is unfortunate. This hurts me.

Staying in this relationship is a non-option. This relationship with bioware is much like being in an abusive relationship, where trust is betrayed, love is met with indifference and passionless responses, the abuser refusing to admit guilt, the abused clinging to what once was, the truth covered up by frantic explanations to justify the discourse, my personal fear that there just may not be any more good developers left, all of these things are happening to us now and more.

I hope you all realize how ironic this struggle is. We struggle against a force we do not understand, that we have no chance against, that will erase from our hearts all we loved about mass effect, that we have no choice in the end of this, that no matter what we do it will not matter, that this really only ends one way.

How long until you realize holding the line will never gain you any ground?

 C'mon man do not give up. Just vent your emotions somehow. We really need you, we need everyone. We have to show them that we are strong and that we will not retreat. There is always hope even in the darkest moments.

Hold The Line

[Aiden_Cora]

TobiTobsen wrote...

My main problem with Dr. Muzykas answer:

Even if you build the most beautiful house on an ancient grave, it can be as beautiful as it wants, it's still standing on an ancient grave.

I can't accept an extended explanation that builds up on the current ending, because the ending is so bad, it's ridiculous.

But that's just my opinion.

In other words: polish a turd, it's still a turd

[ashley_actually]

Dr. Muzyka's statement did seem like a lot of PR double talk, but hey we made enough noise that the co-founder of BioWare had to come talk to us. I for one remain hopefully skeptical.
April is coming.