Aller au contenu

Photo

So we can't get the ending we want after all?


101103 réponses à ce sujet

#53026
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

TamiBx wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...


^this! The endings were terrible and they NEED TO STOP saying art...it's art if the public says it's art and the ending was far from that. The ending would have Vincent Van Gogh question himself even more about being an artist; if he had seen it. <_< Art is a perspective given by the public eye...


Honestly, video games are not Picasso paintings. I don't want an "artistic" ending; I just want multiple endings that I can pick from. <_<

 

This is the post of day... like really.    These endings are not art and they need to stop saying but thats the only defense that have and it very, very weak.  They have nothing else to stand on and they are back into a corner. 

#53027
Elios

Elios
  • Members
  • 532 messages

Mulberry wrote...

http://www.reddit.co..._dr_ray_muzyka/
Patrick Weekes (bioware writer) posted this on Penny Arcade and then deleted it:


"I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, B) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc). 
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft. 
And honestly, it kind of shows. 
Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d 
And again, it shows. 
If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as: Galactic Alliances Friends Organics versus Synthetics 
In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me -- every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message. 
The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them. 
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye. 
For me, Anderson's goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. 
And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a cutscene of Earth that was either: 
a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory B) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT. c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out 
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah. 
Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour. 
I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have enough cutscene differentiation on it. 
And to be clear, I don't even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes -- all three of them."


did any one get a screen shot of it this its one thing to copy/past it but a screen shot would be damning

#53028
Hendrik.III

Hendrik.III
  • Members
  • 909 messages
Bioware made a wonderful, huge and interactive galaxy we have come to know well and have come to love. Then, they made a uniform, a rank and a name. Some may be of opinion that it's art, that it's BioWare's story to tell - but we were the ones who wore that uniform into battle.

We crafted Shepard's face with detail and patience. We chose his background. We chose his career. We chose his class and specialization. In our minds we gave him a personality, and then we took humanity by the hand and properly introduced ourselves to the galaxy by defeating the geth, Sovereign and Saren in a battle of unprecedented scale.

We made choices that ended the lives of many. Some of them our own beloved crew. We chose who lived and who died and regretted having to make that choice, having to live with its repercussions. We romanced our (wo)man of choice, dismissing the attentions of others, or we loved more when we could not make up our minds. We made friends with our crew, or commanded them relentlessly.

We made choices that impacted the galaxy. We influenced many races, their leadership and their course. We took the fight to the Collectors and kicked their butts back into the omega 4 relay, where we followed them to their lair, and decided whether it should burn or not - knowing we had to live with the consequences.

We made choices that relieved those in need, or we made the choice to give priority to our mission at the cost of individual or even mass sufering. We built bridges between races or destroyed them. We have grown attached to our crewmembers: Garrus Vakarian, Tali'Zorah vas Normandy nar Rayya, Flight Lieutenant Jeff Moreau, Dr. Karin Chakwas, Liara T'soni and many, many others who served beside us. We have come to care for them, or rather their written personalities - and some of us even wear them on T-shirts, hoodies and hear their voices when we see their faces.
We saw them die, and FELT it.

That is how great BioWare made this game. That is how well written the game was so far. That is the most awesome thing most of us have experienced in a mere videogame. That is immersion to perfection and we were promised it would build up to the end by mr. Hudson himself. We trusted him, for we had no reason to doubt him after all he and his team have given us after years, and years of their hard work.

We did everything we could the way we think we should have. But during the final phase, during the last battle, at the moment that it matters most - we are not allowed to fulfill our chosen destiny, but forced to abruptly choose a colour on the screen. The End.

I am but one Commander Shepard, and feel that this won't do. We are ALL Commander Shepard. We stood in his boots on Ilos, Feros, Tuchanka, Eden Prime and any other godforsaken planet, asteroid and artificial helhole that needed our talents, which we -again- chose for ourselves.

Dear BioWare, we are Commander Shepard. We deserve to choose our own destiny.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 21 mars 2012 - 07:59 .


#53029
mulder1199

mulder1199
  • Members
  • 1 226 messages
[quote]Kaidan Fan wrote...

[http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Sorry, just found the thread:

http://social.biowar.../index/10385152

[/quote]

I don't need more clarity or further closure.  I would like an ending that: 1) makes sense.  2) Provides options/choices and 3) Doesn't have my Shepard acting OOC. 

Their true original story that they were building up in the first two games was fine and the endings to that made more sense than this "artistic" stuff we got for ME3.

I'm also sick of seeing people who are fine with the ending bash people who don't like the ending.

I mostly "hold the line" silently, but I've been with this thread since the beginning and will stick it out with you guys.



[/quote]
i do need more clarity and closure, but i want it included in some more ending choices that are put in.....don't try to explain your end to me bw/ea

#53030
Computim

Computim
  • Members
  • 2 044 messages

TamiBx wrote...

 If you don't want to go to IGN for coverage, there is an another article:

http://gamerant.com/...c-johnj-139277/


Doesn't Jennifer Chobot work for IGN?

Modifié par Computim, 21 mars 2012 - 07:58 .


#53031
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

WaffleCrab wrote...

Gotta love how they do the "its all destructive criticism" defence... that is just lame bioware. Too lame to fly.

 

Oh I called him on a that in a letter I left in the sticky thread  about his blog post ... I called him on it good too. 

#53032
Lord Costantino

Lord Costantino
  • Members
  • 558 messages

nitefyre410 wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...


^this! The endings were terrible and they NEED TO STOP saying art...it's art if the public says it's art and the ending was far from that. The ending would have Vincent Van Gogh question himself even more about being an artist; if he had seen it. <_< Art is a perspective given by the public eye...


Honestly, video games are not Picasso paintings. I don't want an "artistic" ending; I just want multiple endings that I can pick from. <_<

 

This is the post of day... like really.    These endings are not art and they need to stop saying but thats the only defense that have and it very, very weak.  They have nothing else to stand on and they are back into a corner. 


People start tweeting and fbing these posts to Bioware..maybe it might help get the "art" point across :D

#53033
revaew

revaew
  • Members
  • 69 messages

WaffleCrab wrote...

Gotta love how they do the "its all destructive criticism" defence... that is just lame bioware. Too lame to fly.


I read that and all I thought was "You HAVE GOT to be kidding me..."

#53034
KHReborn

KHReborn
  • Members
  • 263 messages
I can't hear this "art" argument anymore. In my eyes it's no art. Noone buys a painting and gets the final color for additional fee. But everyone can see it how he/she wants.

What makes me angry is the the "nothing" they are telling us. Like is said before: Only 3 sentence of this blogpost today had an actuall message. The rest was just hot air.

When they see this as art then they can tell us that they won't change anything. That's fine for me. This way i know their opinion and their way to go.
But all this PR talking makes me really sad.

#53035
TamiBx

TamiBx
  • Members
  • 3 150 messages

Lord Costantino wrote...

@TamiBx 

Exactly! This is why I added you to my friends list lol :lol: I even put that in my letter to Bioware, regarding the whole "art" defense.


And that's why I accepted you lol
But seriously, everytime they mention "art", I want to just..jhfshgishgioaghfsfgi 

Ok, I feel better now. :lol:

#53036
paleobones

paleobones
  • Members
  • 186 messages

Kaidan Fan wrote...



I don't need more clarity or further closure.  I would like an ending that: 1) makes sense.  2) Provides options/choices and 3) Doesn't have my Shepard acting OOC. 

Their true original story that they were building up in the first two games was fine and the endings to that made more sense than this "artistic" stuff we got for ME3.

I'm also sick of seeing people who are fine with the ending bash people who don't like the ending.

I mostly "hold the line" silently, but I've been with this thread since the beginning and will stick it out with you guys.





This is how I feel as well.

#53037
TSC_1

TSC_1
  • Members
  • 568 messages
Hey, folks! If you haven't already, vote in the poll regarding Dr. Muzyka's statement. Let Bioware know what we want!

#53038
BigglesFlysAgain

BigglesFlysAgain
  • Members
  • 2 279 messages
A source for the supposed article by patrick http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4 am I reading this wrong or was it made on the 9th?

#53039
Computim

Computim
  • Members
  • 2 044 messages

TamiBx wrote...

But seriously, everytime they mention "art", I want to just..jhfshgishgioaghfsfgi 


I still think that's a better ending than we got Image IPB

#53040
TamiBx

TamiBx
  • Members
  • 3 150 messages

Computim wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

 If you don't want to go to IGN for coverage, there is an another article:

http://gamerant.com/...c-johnj-139277/


Doesn't Jennifer Chobot work for IGN?


Yes, she does. And oh, she's in ME3!  <_<

#53041
Chatboy 91

Chatboy 91
  • Members
  • 159 messages

WaffleCrab wrote...

Gotta love how they do the "its all destructive criticism" defence... that is just lame bioware. Too lame to fly.


Like I said here, there's no such thing as "destructive" criticism. Any true artists know that.

#53042
QwibQwib

QwibQwib
  • Members
  • 460 messages

Mulberry wrote...

http://www.reddit.co..._dr_ray_muzyka/
(bioware writer) posted this on Penny Arcade and then deleted it:
*snipped out*

Please delete that.

Modifié par QwibQwib, 21 mars 2012 - 08:01 .


#53043
TSC_1

TSC_1
  • Members
  • 568 messages

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

A source for the supposed article by patrick http://pastebin.com/i2cNVDp4 am I reading this wrong or was it made on the 9th?


It appears that way.

#53044
Lord Costantino

Lord Costantino
  • Members
  • 558 messages
 @TamiBx

This is probably an accurate gif of you and me when we see the "art" excuse.

*edit*
whoelse is with us on that :P

http://i19.photobuck...ros/30hvou8.gif

Modifié par Lord Costantino, 21 mars 2012 - 08:02 .


#53045
PurpleWhisper

PurpleWhisper
  • Members
  • 123 messages

Little Miss Angel wrote...

Prince Lex wrote...

My personal stance on the ending:

I want them to use the indoctrination theory to offer an alternative, or offer a few more options if the conversation with godchild has to stay. I don't see them completely rewriting what's already there, and quite frankly I don't think that's the best way to approach it.

From "the Doctor"'s last statement, it sounded like they're adding additional scenes following the endings we currently have, and although the main priority is closure for our characters, we really need to press the point that what we want to see is that our choices matter, and not to be left with the current total mess.


Agreed. No closure or explanation is going to fix the massive plot holes and nonsense presented by the Catalyst. Right now, the best way to do so would be to "wipe the slate clean" as it were. By making it a hallucination/indoctrination attempt, it would be easier to implement the indoctrination theory rather than just to rewrite the ending.


I also agreed. The 'best' ending was (for me) the one where Shep lives. But Shep is still alone and broken in the rubble of London, the galaxy is still shot to hell and my love interest is still far far away on some distant planet with Joker! I can't imagine that any amount of additional explanation is going to make me feel better about it.

At least by using the hallucination/indoctrination theory, they'd be able to supply 'true' endings to suit all players. They could keep the self-sacrificing ends for players who want them and then include a happier option for those who would prefer that. Just let us have our choices. Thats part of what these games are supposed to be about.

'Art' doesn't always have to be depressing. Plenty of us love a good happy ending. Fiction is a great way to escape reality and my favourite thing about Mass Effect before the ME3 ending was how pumped and uplifted i always felt playing as Shepard.

/End ramble.

Modifié par PurpleWhisper, 21 mars 2012 - 08:04 .


#53046
nitefyre410

nitefyre410
  • Members
  • 8 944 messages

TamiBx wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...

@TamiBx 

Exactly! This is why I added you to my friends list lol :lol: I even put that in my letter to Bioware, regarding the whole "art" defense.


And that's why I accepted you lol
But seriously, everytime they mention "art", I want to just..jhfshgishgioaghfsfgi 

Ok, I feel better now. :lol:

 


That thud you hear everytime they menton "Art" thats the sound of my skull hitting my desk and the low rumble afterwards is the groan of sheer and utter frustration.  

#53047
J.Random

J.Random
  • Members
  • 167 messages

TSC_1 wrote...

Hey, folks! If you haven't already, vote in the poll regarding Dr. Muzyka's statement. Let Bioware know what we want!

OK, 4 votes for "do nothing" are: Casey, Muzyka... who else?

#53048
Mara Shep

Mara Shep
  • Members
  • 283 messages

mulder1199 wrote...

Mara Shep wrote...

Has no one seen this? 

"Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on
this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our existing plan to
continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest
assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will,
continue."

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

Sorry, just found the thread:

http://social.biowar.../index/10385152


yeah, most have, and most don't want the bad endings explained away.....another ending and close up the plot holes with some gameplay!

No no nooo, sorry, I totally get that and too want that.  I was really down today, and just the fact that someone responded gave me a glimmer of hope.  I am hoping that this is the statement that gets the ball rolling, is a glimmer of hope that now they understand...I am rush typing.  I am just happy we are making enough waves to get noticed, and from here we can push harder to get what Shepard REALLY deserves.

I too want a proper ending without plot holes, but this has really boosted my sprirts that we got a response, even if it is PR crap.  Sometimes you just need something, you know?

#53049
WvStolzing

WvStolzing
  • Members
  • 562 messages

Darth Suetam wrote...
The only thing I would point out is when he said about intellectuals. A guy can very well be very intelligent, smart, whatever. But he can't be in intellectual if he doesn't do something about it. He can be smart as anyone, but can't write philosophically with no philosophy background. He can't write deeply enough without training or being an accomplished reader of the classics. Sorry, but there it is. The inescapable truth. Trying to be all these things without a solid base will always result in "pseudo-intellectual fiascos" like the ending.


Spot-on. This can't be quoted often enough.

#53050
Lord Costantino

Lord Costantino
  • Members
  • 558 messages
@J.Random

LOLZ!!! :o