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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#53376
Cro730

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KHReborn wrote...

One question comesto my mind. What makes the review of a video games magazine so special against the voice of a fan? Why is the game defended with those ratings? I really don't get it.
I mean it's not like the ratingsystems are veriefied by any federal institution. They're just people like us saying: "We evaluate you game with our ratingsystem. It's great because we invented it."

In my opinion every reviewer has only one voice. Not the voice of the whole costumers of the magazine.

I really don't get it.

Good point, and I agree.
The only difference is that they get paid to do the review. Somehow that makes them more credible...?
I don't get it.

#53377
Computim

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WvStolzing wrote...

TamiBx wrote...
Yes. Someone said what they did not want as their ending on BSN and...guess what, that's what we got, so...<_<


Maybe during the final charge towards the beam, we get to overhear the conversation of two Husks on the side, so that when we meet Casper he has an explanatory blue square on him?


Marauder Shields

#53378
Gardner295

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MysticBinary82 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

MysticBinary82 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

How is it a bigger undertaking that a 2 hour DLC? They don't HAVE to add in any additional 'boss' fights...or any new locations.



[...]
But the 2hrs PLUS cinematics... are different.
Example:
Geth are there but you destroyed the heretics.
Getha re there with heretics
Geth with primes
Geth without primes
Geth with quarians
geth only

[...]


But these cinematics does not need to be CGI. They can be ingame. I don't know why they used so much cgi in the first place?


If all of these factors go into a line or two of dialogue... that would be so unfair to your effort. they need CGI....

Does the impact of your assortment of fleets feel the same if your on earth hearing the radio, or watching all of them come out of the relay?


Yes you might be true. I have nothing against CGI btw. They had that outsourced anyway. But it is not that hard to get 3 arivels at the relay. You just have to render all armadas on there own and the compose them togather how it would fit. how they does it already and sometimes not even good. You see some ships have a small wiggle motion if you look closely. Not very professionel and top notch but I can live with it.


I don't know a lot about CG and graphics, but I think showing a whole armada in game graphic would be too much for the machine... 

#53379
Apfelweinbrauer

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TSC_1 wrote...

...link?


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

:devil:

#53380
Mortensus

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KHReborn wrote...

One question comesto my mind. What makes the review of a video games magazine so special against the voice of a fan? Why is the game defended with those ratings? I really don't get it.
I mean it's not like the ratingsystems are veriefied by any federal institution. They're just people like us saying: "We evaluate you game with our ratingsystem. It's great because we invented it."

In my opinion every reviewer has only one voice. Not the voice of the whole costumers of the magazine.

I really don't get it.

someone explained that if they give bad reviews, they take a slap on the fingers, by, for example, not revceiving previews/early releases of games, drop of advertisement from thses games etc so... they are paid by the industry, not the readers

Modifié par Mortensus, 21 mars 2012 - 10:23 .


#53381
Cybermortis

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*How many people think Games Reviewers really work*

Reviewer; 'Wow, this game is total pile of s..'

Games company; +++Assuming Direct Control+++

Reviewer; '...superb game play and story from start to finish. 10 out of 10...'

Modifié par Cybermortis, 21 mars 2012 - 10:25 .


#53382
Nightfire78

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BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Ok patrick thing is fake http://social.biowar...x/10399933&lf=8


The sad thing is that this (even as a fake), is the first and only thing I've heard that could even remotely explain the... problematic... nature of the ending lol

When thinking about the ending I found myself reminded of the best advice a Prof. has ever given me... I was writing a short story for my thesis and was incredibly hurt by the big red markings on a several parts of the story (pre-final draft) that I was particularily proud of. He said, "If you write something and think you are being so amazingly sophisticated and witty and brilliant, especially if you love the prose you have used to describe it... Delete it and start over. In the end pretty much everyone who reads it will see you patting yourself on the back and find it out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst."

I barely managed to restrain myself from calling him a name that one should not call people, especially Prof's in charge of one's thesis... then I let some people I trusted to be honest read the draft (without mentioning what critique I had gotten from my Prof.) and 2/3 came to me and said that they had the feeling these same parts were off and felt like I was trying to be all witty and edgy without it making sense. I have since then followed the Prof's advice (though it sometimes really hurts, and I still need trusted people to double check and peer-feedback me periodically).

As such, when I saw the ending, I got the feeling that someone had fallen prey to that same fatal flaw but without my Prof. or sufficiently stern/straightforward people for peer feedback to pull them back on solid ground and say, "hey, I know you love it and think it's the bee's knees, but a significant amount of people will think it's out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst".
I feel for whoever's baby this ending was/is because I know how it feels, but I hope they will choose to see it as a learning experience and at least give fixing it a try. I can say from experience that the feedback you get when you let people examine the new, more illustrative and less edgy version is well worth the effort (and a good writer can find a way to keep the essence of what they were trying to communicate within almost any edit, no matter how extensive).

Whatever the reality of the situation was, I'm glad Bioware seems to at least be addressing the issue instead of ignoring it, but I still think they have not taken a clear enough stance. I won't even say that it's not a matter of not understanding the ending because it is the case that the ending cannot be understood within the rules of the universe as they have been presented to us, unless you go for the "it was all a dream" explanation (which normally is a big no-no in the world of story telling)... but even if the plot holes and altered rules of nature within the universe were somehow explained, there remains the lack of sufficient possible outcomes:

This story was, from the beginning, an interactive one--beyond the normal level of interactivity a game demands--so logically the endings must or at least should cover a broader base of tastes. It should account for the people who play games to envision a world where good things happen to good people (a happy ending), it should account for those people who believe that it is the way of their Shepard to sacrifice for the good of all (infamous bittersweet ending) and it should account for people who play the game envisioning a world where gigantic incompetence is met with swift retribution (failure). Above all it should let people know, even if just in text blurbs like DA:O, what happens to the galaxy and the characters and crew that have become important to them.

On a side note regarding the topic of it being some kind fo dramatic horrible thing for a gaming company to change their product because of fans... Final Fantasy X-2, first sequel in the FF series, primarily a reaction to fans wanting the chance to continue the story and have the option of rescuing/retrieving the main character from FFX if he was not all the way gone. Sequel made, option to get the boy back if you played your cards right given, money made, fans happy (though it was made fun of a bit for the whole "clothes make the (wo)man" battle system). The latest installment of FF online games, so crap that everyone screamed about its crappiness to the extent that the entire team was chucked and replaced with new people, monthly paymens were suspended for months (maybe even a year? not sure) until the game was up to par. No clue how successful it's become, but I can tell you it's def. more successful than it would have been had they stuck to their guns. Hydrophobia, changes based on feedback. Fallout 3, changes based on feedback. I would think twice before claiming that all these people, devs, game designers etc. betrayed their artistic integrity. Odds are, most of them are happy that they were able to improve on their product or make a successful leap of faith on a break from tradition based on the love of their fans.

Once again I have written more than intended. I guess every now and then I feel a need to get it all off my chest :P

Hold the line!

P.S. - I haven't checked for typos and the like, so my appologies if I've typed anything weird :innocent:

#53383
Deschi

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a bit humor?

The true inspiration for the Catalyst (as many of you already assumed):
www.youtube.com/watch

#53384
Alikan

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KHReborn wrote...

One question comesto my mind. What makes the review of a video games magazine so special against the voice of a fan? Why is the game defended with those ratings? I really don't get it.
I mean it's not like the ratingsystems are veriefied by any federal institution. They're just people like us saying: "We evaluate you game with our ratingsystem. It's great because we invented it."

In my opinion every reviewer has only one voice. Not the voice of the whole costumers of the magazine.

I really don't get it.



The problem is i think (and this is just a personal view) that gaming media rewievers like to foster a view of themselves being something like journalists. When in fact they are no more or less worth than anyone doing a  serious review.

Add to this the already many times mentioned problem of them reviewing many, many games a year, the connections to the major game companies commercially, the fact that they sign NDA's preventing them to state some things and the chance of them being cut of access wise if they diplease the game companies and anything resembling unbias goes out the windov.

I do not think/consider them evil/bad/shills but noone should take them seriously.

#53385
soske aizen

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Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

:devil:

Image IPBImage IPBImage IPB

#53386
BigglesFlysAgain

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Nightfire78 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Ok patrick thing is fake http://social.biowar...x/10399933&lf=8


The sad thing is that this (even as a fake), is the first and only thing I've heard that could even remotely explain the... problematic... nature of the ending lol

When thinking about the ending I found myself reminded of the best advice a Prof. has ever given me... I was writing a short story for my thesis and was incredibly hurt by the big red markings on a several parts of the story (pre-final draft) that I was particularily proud of. He said, "If you write something and think you are being so amazingly sophisticated and witty and brilliant, especially if you love the prose you have used to describe it... Delete it and start over. In the end pretty much everyone who reads it will see you patting yourself on the back and find it out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst."

I barely managed to restrain myself from calling him a name that one should not call people, especially Prof's in charge of one's thesis... then I let some people I trusted to be honest read the draft (without mentioning what critique I had gotten from my Prof.) and 2/3 came to me and said that they had the feeling these same parts were off and felt like I was trying to be all witty and edgy without it making sense. I have since then followed the Prof's advice (though it sometimes really hurts, and I still need trusted people to double check and peer-feedback me periodically).

As such, when I saw the ending, I got the feeling that someone had fallen prey to that same fatal flaw but without my Prof. or sufficiently stern/straightforward people for peer feedback to pull them back on solid ground and say, "hey, I know you love it and think it's the bee's knees, but a significant amount of people will think it's out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst".
I feel for whoever's baby this ending was/is because I know how it feels, but I hope they will choose to see it as a learning experience and at least give fixing it a try. I can say from experience that the feedback you get when you let people examine the new, more illustrative and less edgy version is well worth the effort (and a good writer can find a way to keep the essence of what they were trying to communicate within almost any edit, no matter how extensive).

Whatever the reality of the situation was, I'm glad Bioware seems to at least be addressing the issue instead of ignoring it, but I still think they have not taken a clear enough stance. I won't even say that it's not a matter of not understanding the ending because it is the case that the ending cannot be understood within the rules of the universe as they have been presented to us, unless you go for the "it was all a dream" explanation (which normally is a big no-no in the world of story telling)... but even if the plot holes and altered rules of nature within the universe were somehow explained, there remains the lack of sufficient possible outcomes:

This story was, from the beginning, an interactive one--beyond the normal level of interactivity a game demands--so logically the endings must or at least should cover a broader base of tastes. It should account for the people who play games to envision a world where good things happen to good people (a happy ending), it should account for those people who believe that it is the way of their Shepard to sacrifice for the good of all (infamous bittersweet ending) and it should account for people who play the game envisioning a world where gigantic incompetence is met with swift retribution (failure). Above all it should let people know, even if just in text blurbs like DA:O, what happens to the galaxy and the characters and crew that have become important to them.

On a side note regarding the topic of it being some kind fo dramatic horrible thing for a gaming company to change their product because of fans... Final Fantasy X-2, first sequel in the FF series, primarily a reaction to fans wanting the chance to continue the story and have the option of rescuing/retrieving the main character from FFX if he was not all the way gone. Sequel made, option to get the boy back if you played your cards right given, money made, fans happy (though it was made fun of a bit for the whole "clothes make the (wo)man" battle system). The latest installment of FF online games, so crap that everyone screamed about its crappiness to the extent that the entire team was chucked and replaced with new people, monthly paymens were suspended for months (maybe even a year? not sure) until the game was up to par. No clue how successful it's become, but I can tell you it's def. more successful than it would have been had they stuck to their guns. Hydrophobia, changes based on feedback. Fallout 3, changes based on feedback. I would think twice before claiming that all these people, devs, game designers etc. betrayed their artistic integrity. Odds are, most of them are happy that they were able to improve on their product or make a successful leap of faith on a break from tradition based on the love of their fans.

Once again I have written more than intended. I guess every now and then I feel a need to get it all off my chest :P

Hold the line!

P.S. - I haven't checked for typos and the like, so my appologies if I've typed anything weird :innocent:



I read most of your post, but I thought you were trying to be too witty and clever so I stopped :P

#53387
Xellith

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I dont get this. If 1000 critics hated the game - but we loved it. They would be making a tonne of changes? Im confused.

I thought WE the fans were buying the products. I didnt know that our opinion had no bearing on a final product that was being made for us.

#53388
Jere85

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65th division in the Netherlands reporting, have been gone for a few hours, did i miss anything since Rays statement?

#53389
RussianOrc

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Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

:devil:

Can someone make this guy(Colin) shut up??

Modifié par RussianOrc, 21 mars 2012 - 10:26 .


#53390
MysticBinary82

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Gardner295 wrote...


I don't know a lot about CG and graphics, but I think showing a whole armada in game graphic would be too much for the machine... 


Well there would be a lot of instances so that could be handeled very memory saving. But on a small machine there could still be problems. Well then CGI... Image IPB

#53391
firstarioch

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hello people .Tiring day . my work plus organised more press for us.
Lest not get picky on TWitter.
We have been heard,4
Now everyone please write constructive ideas to bioware about what to do and how to do new ending..
Its time to be constructive.
no bashing just pure storytelling to them.

#53392
WvStolzing

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Nightfire78 wrote...
As such, when I saw the ending, I got the feeling that someone had fallen prey to that same fatal flaw but without my Prof. or sufficiently stern/straightforward people for peer feedback to pull them back on solid ground and say, "hey, I know you love it and think it's the bee's knees, but a significant amount of people will think it's out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst".


That's very well said.

#53393
nitefyre410

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Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

:devil:

  


Oh please... I'm so sick of him.... he can go cry his tears some place else...  When you market you art, its no longer under you creative freedom. If you want to get back to artistic roots, make smaller indy and downloadable games... Like Bastion and Journey.  When you get millions of dollars  the people  funding the project are going to want to see a retrun on  that investment... Its nature of the Beast.  

Don't want to play the game... then get out of it. 

Matter of fact thats what ALOT of developers and artist do  Actors get tired of the grind in Hollywood, what do they do?  They go do thearter.   

So really he needs to go sit down and take a nap... 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 21 mars 2012 - 10:30 .


#53394
MysticBinary82

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2137 CE

David Anderson is born.

The Eldfell-Ashland Energy Corporation demonstrates helium-3 fuel extraction from the atmosphere of Saturn.

Modifié par MysticBinary82, 21 mars 2012 - 10:26 .


#53395
Experimentel

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I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Major Coats (or Nigel Fishnchips as some know him) Doesn't seem too pleased about the ending.

twitter.com/#!/NigelFishnchips


I am going to buy that man a beer.

#53396
soske aizen

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RussianOrc wrote...

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

:devil:

can someone make this guy(Colin) shut up??

the guy has a poll way to far up his ass to shut upImage IPB

#53397
Mortensus

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Xellith wrote...

I dont get this. If 1000 critics hated the game - but we loved it. They would be making a tonne of changes? Im confused.

I thought WE the fans were buying the products. I didnt know that our opinion had no bearing on a final product that was being made for us.


Well, the true fans of mass effect are maybe 100/200000? they have sold 3.5 millions i v heard? so now they make games for the masses, not quality for the fans who are verry attentive to details etc

#53398
Xellith

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Just ignore him.

#53399
Chassthemighty

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You know, seeing all the statements by all the workers at Bioware, seeing how this controversy evolved, I really just don't understand Bioware anymore. Why is the idea of adding on/changing the endings so utterly repugnant? Bethesda did it and they came out better for it! And I swear if I read one more condescending article from a Bioware employee i'm going to ram my head into a wall..

#53400
WvStolzing

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http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

'Craft a story'.... yeah, right.