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[Vholien]

What is the current consensus as to why we got the ending that we got? (if there is one...)
Do we believe that EA rushed this out the door, as evidenced by
1. The ending cutscenes being exactly the same, apart from the colour
2. Normandy crashing - cut content+teleporting squadmates
3. (IMO) Ending mission not being up to the standard one might expect from the last mission of an epic trilogy spanning 3 games (compare London with Collector base...which is more epic+memorable?)
4. Quite obvious bugs/glitches that should have been caught? (faces import for example)
Or do we actually think that they thought this was a good idea? (lots of speculation for everybody...)
Or that they realised they had bitten off more than they could chew? The sheer number of permutations of savegames after playing ME1&2 is huge...did they just give up trying to make our choices matter?(does it matter if you killed the Rachni queen?)

Modifié par Vholien, 21 mars 2012 - 10:29 .

[firstarioch]

Chassthemighty wrote...

You know, seeing all the statements by all the workers at Bioware, seeing how this controversy evolved, I really just don't understand Bioware anymore. Why is the idea of adding on/changing the endings so utterly repugnant? Bethesda did it and they came out better for it! And I swear if I read one more condescending article from a Bioware employee i'm going to ram my head into a wall..

what do bioware employees say on twitter about endings ?

[Sevantha]

Lord Costantino wrote...


I wonder if the community should just open our own game company...we seem to have better ideas and would stick to our guns on what needs to change and what is good. Take the Dragon Age series for example...we would upgrade the combat like DA2 did but not make it dummy'ized. We would laso probably argue about the Talking protag or no talking protag but other then that we seem golden <_<

Games made by Gamers for Gamers and it would actually be true ^^

[Nightfire78]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Nightfire78 wrote...

....

I read most of your post, but I thought you were trying to be too witty and clever so I stopped

LOL. Feedback noted

[Victia]

Nightfire78 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Ok patrick thing is fake http://social.biowar...x/10399933&lf=8

The sad thing is that this (even as a fake), is the first and only thing I've heard that could even remotely explain the... problematic... nature of the ending lol

When thinking about the ending I found myself reminded of the best advice a Prof. has ever given me... I was writing a short story for my thesis and was incredibly hurt by the big red markings on a several parts of the story (pre-final draft) that I was particularily proud of. He said, "If you write something and think you are being so amazingly sophisticated and witty and brilliant, especially if you love the prose you have used to describe it... Delete it and start over. In the end pretty much everyone who reads it will see you patting yourself on the back and find it out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst."

I barely managed to restrain myself from calling him a name that one should not call people, especially Prof's in charge of one's thesis... then I let some people I trusted to be honest read the draft (without mentioning what critique I had gotten from my Prof.) and 2/3 came to me and said that they had the feeling these same parts were off and felt like I was trying to be all witty and edgy without it making sense. I have since then followed the Prof's advice (though it sometimes really hurts, and I still need trusted people to double check and peer-feedback me periodically).

As such, when I saw the ending, I got the feeling that someone had fallen prey to that same fatal flaw but without my Prof. or sufficiently stern/straightforward people for peer feedback to pull them back on solid ground and say, "hey, I know you love it and think it's the bee's knees, but a significant amount of people will think it's out of place at best and obnoxious or truly awful at worst".
I feel for whoever's baby this ending was/is because I know how it feels, but I hope they will choose to see it as a learning experience and at least give fixing it a try. I can say from experience that the feedback you get when you let people examine the new, more illustrative and less edgy version is well worth the effort (and a good writer can find a way to keep the essence of what they were trying to communicate within almost any edit, no matter how extensive).

Whatever the reality of the situation was, I'm glad Bioware seems to at least be addressing the issue instead of ignoring it, but I still think they have not taken a clear enough stance. I won't even say that it's not a matter of not understanding the ending because it is the case that the ending cannot be understood within the rules of the universe as they have been presented to us, unless you go for the "it was all a dream" explanation (which normally is a big no-no in the world of story telling)... but even if the plot holes and altered rules of nature within the universe were somehow explained, there remains the lack of sufficient possible outcomes:

This story was, from the beginning, an interactive one--beyond the normal level of interactivity a game demands--so logically the endings must or at least should cover a broader base of tastes. It should account for the people who play games to envision a world where good things happen to good people (a happy ending), it should account for those people who believe that it is the way of their Shepard to sacrifice for the good of all (infamous bittersweet ending) and it should account for people who play the game envisioning a world where gigantic incompetence is met with swift retribution (failure). Above all it should let people know, even if just in text blurbs like DA:O, what happens to the galaxy and the characters and crew that have become important to them.

On a side note regarding the topic of it being some kind fo dramatic horrible thing for a gaming company to change their product because of fans... Final Fantasy X-2, first sequel in the FF series, primarily a reaction to fans wanting the chance to continue the story and have the option of rescuing/retrieving the main character from FFX if he was not all the way gone. Sequel made, option to get the boy back if you played your cards right given, money made, fans happy (though it was made fun of a bit for the whole "clothes make the (wo)man" battle system). The latest installment of FF online games, so crap that everyone screamed about its crappiness to the extent that the entire team was chucked and replaced with new people, monthly paymens were suspended for months (maybe even a year? not sure) until the game was up to par. No clue how successful it's become, but I can tell you it's def. more successful than it would have been had they stuck to their guns. Hydrophobia, changes based on feedback. Fallout 3, changes based on feedback. I would think twice before claiming that all these people, devs, game designers etc. betrayed their artistic integrity. Odds are, most of them are happy that they were able to improve on their product or make a successful leap of faith on a break from tradition based on the love of their fans.

Once again I have written more than intended. I guess every now and then I feel a need to get it all off my chest

Hold the line!

P.S. - I haven't checked for typos and the like, so my appologies if I've typed anything weird :innocent:

well said sir or madam

[nitefyre410]

WvStolzing wrote...


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

'Craft a story'.... yeah, right.

 

Did he put  "The Don't tread on Me" Flag from the American Revelotion as his profile pic... 

Yes he did.. <_< 

So disrepectful 

[MysticBinary82]

Sevantha wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...


I wonder if the community should just open our own game company...we seem to have better ideas and would stick to our guns on what needs to change and what is good. Take the Dragon Age series for example...we would upgrade the combat like DA2 did but not make it dummy'ized. We would laso probably argue about the Talking protag or no talking protag but other then that we seem golden <_<

Games made by Gamers for Gamers and it would actually be true ^^

This Idea is not new. Dice is such an example or ID.

[Mortensus]

Sevantha wrote...

Lord Costantino wrote...


I wonder if the community should just open our own game company...we seem to have better ideas and would stick to our guns on what needs to change and what is good. Take the Dragon Age series for example...we would upgrade the combat like DA2 did but not make it dummy'ized. We would laso probably argue about the Talking protag or no talking protag but other then that we seem golden <_<

Games made by Gamers for Gamers and it would actually be true ^^

well, it's a little what is happening when you see games like fallout/elderscrolls , with mods from gamers, often offereing better content than the original game lol

Modifié par Mortensus, 21 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[firstarioch]

ok I read it...
....Ah usual mumbo jumbo from arty farty idiots ...
these are same fools who JOHN CARTER ...
Badly marketed and ill-conceived film.
pay no attention to twitter.
couple of idealists for some kid of pure vision...?
WTF is that ?...
times have moved forward... we in digital entertainment age...

[Chassthemighty]

firstarioch wrote...

Chassthemighty wrote...

You know, seeing all the statements by all the workers at Bioware, seeing how this controversy evolved, I really just don't understand Bioware anymore. Why is the idea of adding on/changing the endings so utterly repugnant? Bethesda did it and they came out better for it! And I swear if I read one more condescending article from a Bioware employee i'm going to ram my head into a wall..

what do bioware employees say on twitter about endings ?

It's not so much everything that they say (Though stuff like what Dr. Muz.. Whatever and Casey Hudson have said are irritating enough), it more the attitude that gets to me. Pretty much every Bioware employee that i've seen that's had something to say about the ending has the attitude of how they're sorry that we feel the way we do, that we just can't get what they were going for in the ending, yadda yadda. It's gotten better, or it at least it seems to have with Ms. Merizan but do they have to treat our concerns as the byproduct of being seemingly uncultured enough to get their vision?

[QwibQwib]

about the Colin Moriarty tweet:

I believe he's "entitled" on show his displeasure.
He needs to learn one thing though; read. He needs to learn how to read posts. Dr Myzuka never stated that they will change the ending.

[Hazelrah]

Cybermortis wrote...

*How many people think Games Reviewers really work*

Reviewer; 'Wow, this game is total pile of s..'

Games company; +++Assuming Direct Control+++

Reviewer; '...superb game play and story from start to finish. 10 out of 10...'

Sadly I think that's rather well put. It's the story that only a few articles have so far dared to touch with their barge pole.

[soske aizen]

nitefyre410 wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

'Craft a story'.... yeah, right.

 

Did he put  "The Don't tread on Me" Flag from the American Revelotion as his profile pic... 

Yes he did.. <_< 

So disrepectful 

colin really is a (insert words that cant be uesd on bsn)

[Alikan]

Vholien wrote...

What is the current consensus as to why we got the ending that we got? (if there is one...)
Do we believe that EA rushed this out the door, as evidenced by
1. The ending cutscenes being exactly the same, apart from the colour
2. Normandy crashing - cut content+teleporting squadmates
3. (IMO) Ending mission not being up to the standard one might expect from the last mission of an epic trilogy spanning 3 games (compare London with Collector base...which is more epic+memorable?)
4. Quite obvious bugs/glitches that should have been caught? (faces import for example)
Or do we actually think that they thought this was a good idea? (lots of speculation for everybody...)
Or that they realised they had bitten off more than they could chew? The sheer number of permutations of savegames after playing ME1&2 is huge...did they just give up trying to make our choices matter?(does it matter if you killed the Rachni queen?)

I consider it a rush yes. Same as happened with DA2, not that they admitted that until months later-until then it was just talk about how thye tried to be inovative, aiming for awesome etc etc,

ME3 was already pushed forward once(?) and with the end of the fiscal year coming they got the order that this was it. At least what i think and there is alot ofthings to support that.

[Cybermortis]

Mortensus wrote...

Well, the true fans of mass effect are maybe 100/200000? they have sold 3.5 millions i v heard? so now they make games for the masses, not quality for the fans who are verry attentive to details etc

No they SHIPPED 3.5 million copies, that is NOT the same as selling 3.5 million copies. It is a very common trick to use to hide how well a product is selling, as most people don't know the difference. In fact they used this exact same trick to hide the sales figures for DA2.

'Shipping' is just how many copies they have sent to stores, it is not how many copies the stores themselves are or have sold. The sales figures I've been able to get indicate they sold 1.6 million copies in the US and Europe up to the 10th March. I'd guess total sales figures are in the 2.1 million range by now, if only because the game wasn't released in Europe until the 8th and 9th.

[Geda173]

soske aizen wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

WvStolzing wrote...


http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

'Craft a story'.... yeah, right.

 

Did he put  "The Don't tread on Me" Flag from the American Revelotion as his profile pic... 

Yes he did.. <_< 

So disrepectful 

colin really is a (insert words that cant be uesd on bsn)

He makes me really mad right now. I'm fine with him having his opinion, but he is discrediting every opinion that is other than his. His tweets are paired with so much arrogance and insolence, makes me want to dragon kick a baby.

[TSC_1]

Alikan wrote...

I consider it a rush yes. Same as happened with DA2, not that they admitted that until months later-until then it was just talk about how thye tried to be inovative, aiming for awesome etc etc,

ME3 was already pushed forward once(?) and with the end of the fiscal year coming they got the order that this was it. At least what i think and there is alot ofthings to support that.

Well, it makes sense. If I recall correctly, the "Last Hours of ME3" behind-the-scenes thing pretty much said they were rushed, and the ending was decided on late in the dev cycle.

Modifié par TSC_1, 21 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[Arykel515]

People seem to be harking on about Bioware should be able to tell the story they want, but the problem is this is an open ended story where choices matter, not a linear story being told, such as a movie or a book where it is clearly solely down to the author/creator to decide what happens in their narrative and what the consumer sees.

Even in these cases people are unhappy when things take sudden last minute changes that mess things up, only in those times they would just go "that is **** now" and move on. This is different for people as its so close to people after so long, and they feel like the story belongs at least partially to them and they deserve better. These endings blow.

I'm still wondering why the destroy ending, which the child says is the worst choice, is the only one Shepard survives in, if the indo theory isn't implemented. I would like to find this out.

[Nightfire78]

soske aizen wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?

http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

can someone make this guy(Colin) shut up??

the guy has a poll way to far up his ass to shut up

It's a free country, he can say what he wants, but with a name like C. Moriarty, I think it's pretty clear what we're supposed to make of it

[Nharia1]

Okay so I got this from Liara T'soni on Twitter

http://i.imgur.com/3Qq6U.jpg

It's freaking epic~!!!! xD

[MysticBinary82]

Arykel515 wrote...

People seem to be harking on about Bioware should be able to tell the story they want, but the problem is this is an open ended story where choices matter, not a linear story being told, such as a movie or a book where it is clearly solely down to the author/creator to decide what happens in their narrative and what the consumer sees.

Even in these cases people are unhappy when things take sudden last minute changes that mess things up, only in those times they would just go "that is **** now" and move on. This is different for people as its so close to people after so long, and they feel like the story belongs at least partially to them and they deserve better. These endings blow.

I'm still wondering why the destroy ending, which the child says is the worst choice, is the only one Shepard survives in, if the indo theory isn't implemented. I would like to find this out.

Yes it is like a Pen&Paper RPG but with grafics instead.

[Bionic Weapon]

QwibQwib wrote...

about the Colin Moriarty tweet:

I believe he's "entitled" on show his displeasure.
He needs to learn one thing though; read. He needs to learn how to read posts. Dr Myzuka never stated that they will change the ending.

I think it's the sheer thought that Bioware might even consider it a little bit is what upsets him. Funny about the entitled thing though since of anything ever came of this he'd probely be the first to say something on the matter.

Hyprocisy is a crazy thing isn't it?

[soske aizen]

Nightfire78 wrote...

soske aizen wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

Apfelweinbrauer wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

...link?

http://twitter.com/#...512779385765888

can someone make this guy(Colin) shut up??

the guy has a poll way to far up his ass to shut up

It's a free country, he can say what he wants, but with a name like C. Moriarty, I think it's pretty clear what we're supposed to make of it

there is only one man that can stop him it seems

[Mortensus]

Cybermortis wrote...

Mortensus wrote...

Well, the true fans of mass effect are maybe 100/200000? they have sold 3.5 millions i v heard? so now they make games for the masses, not quality for the fans who are verry attentive to details etc

No they SHIPPED 3.5 million copies, that is NOT the same as selling 3.5 million copies. It is a very common trick to use to hide how well a product is selling, as most people don't know the difference. In fact they used this exact same trick to hide the sales figures for DA2.

'Shipping' is just how many copies they have sent to stores, it is not how many copies the stores themselves are or have sold. The sales figures I've been able to get indicate they sold 1.6 million copies in the US and Europe up to the 10th March. I'd guess total sales figures are in the 2.1 million range by now, if only because the game wasn't released in Europe until the 8th and 9th.

ah ok sorry but anyway they have sold most of their copies to people who are not absolute fans, who don't know the story and play it like a shooter and don't care much about the plotholes etc

[Cyan-Glow]

@ Colin Moriarty tweet:

Ignorance is bliss brother.