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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#54251
Koobarex

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It's that time again. ;)

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 9: The Thin Blue Line

In this episode... We take a peek inside the Alliance's flagship and join a familiar character in a gutsy decision. To ensure the best reading experience, play "Two Steps from Hell - Heart of Courage" in the background while reading. ;)


Open the full version here:  http://i.imgur.com/TmzoQ.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)). 

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg
Episode 4: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg
Episode 5: http://i.imgur.com/6zyaQ.jpg
Episode 6: http://i.imgur.com/kw8MV.jpg
Episode 7: http://i.imgur.com/W2hfn.jpg 
Episode 8: http://i.imgur.com/ySrw1.jpg
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!

P.S. 
As a set of additional info - I will be no longer able to produce these daily, the process is getting a little lengthy and complicated and I want to keep it that way to ensure I can tell the stories I really want to. As of today, expect these comics every 2 days.

:wizard::wizard::wizard:

#54252
KaiserinKai

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EmEr77 wrote...

I knew this was going to happen. Eventually the BioWare team was going to pull the "artistic integrity" card on us. Which is fine. I am both a writer, and an illustrator, and I enjoy having creative freedoms to produce what pleases me, and what makes my soul happy, regardless of what the people around me may think. To an extent, that's fine. But if I plan on producing my art for the masses, I better be prepared to gracefully accept the criticism that comes with it. That's just what happens when you take the gamble to be an artist in a public forum of any kind. Video games, movies, books, etc.

Case in point: I just went through a workshop for one of my stories. A workshop, is a forum of like-minded people, in this case, writers, who all read your story in advance and come and talk about it for a few hours. That's just a few hours. They give you their feedback, how they received it, what they appreciated or didn't appreciate about it, while I carefully take notes. Is it personal? Hell yes it's personal. This is my work, this is my brainchild. Is progress something that is achieved in a vacuum? No. It's not. For my own personal growth, it is imperative that I gain the necessary help from others to succeed. Not just anybody mind you, but people who share in my passions, and people who are actually willing to dedicate time to my work.

What is going on right now with the ending of this game is a workshop, on a much grander scale, with those who are "workshopping" the game being the players themselves. I'm not the only writer out there who sat back and looked at the ending of this game from a WRITERLY standpoint and said "there are massive plot holes, inconsistencies with character, and a surprising lack of continuity with this ending; completely unbecoming of the previous caliber of work we've come to expect of this company and its creative team."

Artistic integrity? Perhaps. However, I find it very difficult to believe much in the idea of "integrity" when it merely translates to stubbornness. Sure you have artistic greats like Picasso and Hemingway who were only recognized for their genius after their time, but is this moment truly anything like those men? I actually do not believe so. For the simple fact that the excellence of BioWare is something that has been recognized already, and because of this fact, they have a duty not only to their fans, but to themselves to continue to live up to the quality that THEY THEMSELVES have established. It's not our fault these people are nothing but constant displays of excellence and creative genius.

But no one is perfect, and it's important to remember that when someone falls short, there is more honor to be had in admitting fault, and accepting the help and positive constructive feedback of those who are actually giving such (which is a massive amount of the community, the numbers of flamers compared to the civil individuals is staggeringly different) because they care. What BioWare did was introduce an entirely new element to playing video games, one that was sort of tried in the past with other titles and other companies, but never fully realized... until BioWare.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for the BioWare team, and I'm not a fancy high-paid high-profile writer or illustrator, but I do know and value enough of my craft to count myself as someone able to give well thought out constructive criticism.

The ending of this game was beautiful, and absolutely intense. It is not something to be belittled--but it belonged to an entirely different story line, and an entirely different set of circumstances. Instead of an ending that displayed the culmination of work between both the development team and the gamers themselves, it seemed to cut out the gaming community entirely. Never mind what the critics say... critics can be bought. I look to the indie critics, the lesser-named publications, even the no-names--the ones who do this for the passion of it, and they are not happy. They are a reflection of the overall feeling of the community.

The real meaning of artistic integrity is being willing to admit both the wonders and flaws in your work, and accepting the opinion of those who you take the chance of showing it to. It is believing enough in yourself to know that no amount of money or notoriety means you are perfect--you are a being who is always growing and changing, and that if you ever hope to progress you cannot do so in a vacuum.


Brilliant.

Also this is what I have to say to the It's ART! card...

#54253
naes1984

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bowery tuff wrote...

Jytra wrote...

Well, here's something kinda funny, for those who just love Mr. Moriarty's posts...

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1114043p1.html

Colin Moriarty, Guides Guru:


Obviously, the fact that Cole has been reverted back to his old self
(somewhat) is great news. After all, Greg and I did our fair share of
whining on Podcast Beyond after the new Cole was first shown on the
cover of Game Informer some months back.
Of course, I'd love for Sucker
Punch to bring back Cole's old voice, too, but hey – beggars can't be
choosers.




But beyond

the excitement I feel to have old Cole back in Infamous 2, I think the
sudden change in character model says a lot more. Indeed, it says a
great deal about Sucker Punch itself. This is a studio that listens to
its fans, cares what they want, and attempts to cater to as many of them
as possible.
There's no doubt that fans of a franchise can't be trusted
with every little thing (after all, look at how many people were
completely and utterly wrong when they predicted Wind Waker would suck
based solely on its graphics – I still laugh at those people today), but
it still delivers a rather important point.




But with the new Cole design, Sucker Punch heard loud and clear what
fans of Infamous wanted, and they delivered. Infinite amounts of kudos
to them for doing right by their community.
Fans of Infamous won't soon
forget it. Sucker Punch is one of Sony's most valuable developers. They
are tuned-in with the PS3 faithful, and it's things like this that prove
it.



What a bloddy hippocrite.



Oh that's fantastic.



Make sure you call him out on twitter and email PODCAST BEYOND on IGN. If enough people do it he will have to publicly explain.

#54254
RussianOrc

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TamiBx wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

http://www.gamefaqs.....html?poll=4666
Good work the balance is changing very quickly.


...wut? :huh:
How the heck is this happening? 

the "YES" is growing faster than the "NO"

#54255
DJBare

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Watch those pyramid quotes folks.

#54256
CaptnObvious

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This WHOLE ordeal smells of blatant hypocrisy from many in the industry. But i suppose it's a trend, after all.

Only the honest people while prevail, if only a few years later.

#54257
Tarnation007

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This thread just keeps getting bigger and bigger, I can't keep up. I googled "mass effect 3" into Google News and it came up with a couple of interesting articles. I apologise if they have already been posted and I'm just really slow on the uptake but here are the links

http://www.inquisitr...larity-closure/
^^ was apparently posted 30 minutes ago roughly (it's the 22nd March here in Aus (3pm), I have no idea what time it is elsewhere sorry).

http://www.pcmag.com...,2401933,00.asp

Thoughts? I think the first one sounds promising, so maybe they really are listening to what we are saying. It would seem like the silliest thing for BW to not do anything about the endings.

#54258
EmEr77

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KaiserinKai wrote...


Also this is what I have to say to the It's ART! card...



Hahahaha!!!! Hahaha. I'm... I'm going to put that into my favorites folder if you don't mind. 

#54259
CaptnObvious

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snip

Sorry about that, i pressed the wrong button.

But while at it, im surprised of GameFaqs poll... over a thousand say " Stop bothering BioWare, it's THEIR game" basically? It's kindof my game too, i payed cold hard money for it...

Modifié par CaptnObvious, 22 mars 2012 - 04:58 .


#54260
KaiserinKai

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EmEr77 wrote...

KaiserinKai wrote...


Also this is what I have to say to the It's ART! card...



Hahahaha!!!! Hahaha. I'm... I'm going to put that into my favorites folder if you don't mind. 


No problem, feel free to spread it around~

#54261
ashley_actually

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Koobarex wrote...

P.S. [/b]As a set of additional info - I will be no longer able to produce these daily, the process is getting a little lengthy and complicated and I want to keep it that way to ensure I can tell the stories I really want to. As of today, expect these comics every 2 days.

:wizard::wizard::wizard:


I'm just thankful that you are doing these at all, they are AMAZING. The endings of the last two made me tear up no lie. 

Hold the line for Marauder Shields! :crying:

#54262
Mulberry

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Mulberry wrote...

 I posted patrick weeke's alleged comments earlier today.  If people want some additional proof of those comments this gamefront article covers a lot of the bases.  Still not 100% proof but the evidence is fairly damning.

http://www.gamefront...lam-the-ending/


Just want to bump this.  Patrick Weekes is repsonsible for some of the best parts of the ME series and it would really be a shame to see anything bad come from this.

#54263
ld1449

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xHezz90 wrote...

Yoshi0o0 wrote...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Don't know if anyone has said anything yet (doubtful), but the poll of the day is about the ME3 ending.


Wow there is a lot of "Absolutely not"'s there.

*starts to question own intelligence again*


most of those absolutely nots are from people who havent played

#54264
KLGChaos

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ashley_actually wrote...

Yoshi0o0 wrote...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/

Don't know if anyone has said anything yet (doubtful), but the poll of the day is about the ME3 ending.


The Absolutely Don't Change It option is winning. Just FYI. 


Actually, if you add up the first two sections of "definitely" and "probably", it slightly edges out the absolutely not. :P

Though, in the end, I'm sure a lot of people who voted have never even played a Mass Effect game, so they're response is automatically to pick the developers and the "It's their game option." Which actually isn't true. I paid money for a product that made certain promises, I created Shep's every detail, I chose the path he took... by that point, it's my game just as much as theirs. If someone bought food from me, the recipe is still mine, but the food becomes the customers and if he doesn't enjoy it, I try to make it right instead of saying "Hey, you're whining." It's bad customer service, especially after making promises.

There seems to be this common theme in the world nowadays that customers are always in the wrong instead of being in the right. Obviously, neither extreme is accurate, but it's a sad trend when consumers dissatisfaction is ignored as whining or entitlement. If we were given the game for free and complained, I could understand all the entitlement slurs. But we all paid good money and invested a lot of time into these games.

Which means, if the only way for us to speak is through our wallets, then that's the way it'll have to be.

Remember Shepard.

Never forget Marauder Shields.

Remember CHOICE.

And always Hold the Line.

#54265
TamiBx

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RussianOrc wrote...

the "YES" is growing faster than the "NO"


This is ridiculous. I feel like everyone in Bioware voted on that poll...wait, did I really say that? Oops. You misread that lol :whistle:
I mean, who cares what we say? We are the "vocal minority" 

#54266
Mara Shep

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The past couple of hours have been interesting. I have to go and do some work, so real life Shepard (me!) does not fail uni, but I WILL be holding the line, and not let this drop. See you all later!

#54267
Pyewacket

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Koobarex wrote...

It's that time again. ;)

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 9: The Thin Blue Line

In this episode... We take a peek inside the Alliance's flagship and join a familiar character in a gutsy decision. To ensure the best reading experience, play "Two Steps from Hell - Heart of Courage" in the background while reading. ;)


Open the full version here:  http://i.imgur.com/TmzoQ.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)). 

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg
Episode 4: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg
Episode 5: http://i.imgur.com/6zyaQ.jpg
Episode 6: http://i.imgur.com/kw8MV.jpg
Episode 7: http://i.imgur.com/W2hfn.jpg 
Episode 8: http://i.imgur.com/ySrw1.jpg
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!

P.S. 
As a set of additional info - I will be no longer able to produce these daily, the process is getting a little lengthy and complicated and I want to keep it that way to ensure I can tell the stories I really want to. As of today, expect these comics every 2 days.

:wizard::wizard::wizard:


How are you so amazing? <3

#54268
unclee

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Jytra wrote...

Well, here's something kinda funny, for those who just love Mr. Moriarty's posts...

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1114043p1.html

[i]Colin Moriarty, Guides Guru:

*snip remainder*


That's not even his most hypocritical statements. Back when Bethesda announced and released Broken Steel he was one of the people at IGN who absolutely LOVED it....despite the fact that it changed the original ending that the developers put in the game.

And yes, the argument of, "Well that was changed for a GAMEPLAY reason" can be made, but the fact is: it changes the ending that some liked. I myself liked the original ending to FO3 (even though I recognize the plot hole that it had to jump through).

So his claims that he's lost respect for Bioware because changing the ending would be unfair to those who liked it are entirely hipocritical because he had no problem with another company doing the exact same thing just a few years ago.

#54269
cyric085

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this pool looks fishy tbh
the absolutely not jumped from 700+ to 1200+ in a matter of minutes

while the yes jumped up around the same.

Modifié par cyric085, 22 mars 2012 - 05:01 .


#54270
Guest_Mattroy_*

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It took about 24 hours for the ending to really sink in for me. At first I got to the end and just said "Wait...what? That's it?" I was void of any emotion, it felt weird. I texted a friend who had already beaten it and he said "Yup, I hated it." Then I wondered if I had missed something in the conversation with the kid and maybe I chose the wrong ending. So I reloaded the last mission and did the control option, (I had done the destroy option my first time), and lo and behold, I got exact same thing. Then the anger set in, more due to the lack of closure than anything, I didn;t even think of any plot holes until a day or two later. Then I realized that Liara would have to mourn Shepard again and there was nothing I could ever do to change that, and then I got really bummed out. It would have been kinder to leaver her in that stasis field on Therum. I started an insanity playthrough the next morning, got past the Mars mission, then I thought "What's the point? Everyone is just going to die anyway." Haven't touched my XBox since, that was the on the 11th.

I've seen a few people toss around the word depressing, saying the ending made them depressed, and as a person who has gone through some true, crippling depression, I hope that isn't the case; I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. I think we've all just been hit with extreme disappointment, feelings of betrayal, and some true sadness. I'm really grateful for everyone here, fighting for what we believe in. Even if we don't succeed in our goals, at least we'll have made some kids happy, and we've essentially become a support group for those who've really been hurt by the ending. I also hope that BioWare will eventually see us as the people we are, passionate fans who've been emotionally crushed by the ending of a game that we truly wish we could love. I wish we could get past the PR speak and have an honest to goodness conversation with someone from BioWare, a team we all came to respect and admire. I'd love to show them in person, that the reason we're here day and night is because we want this relationship to work, we've made our move, they just need to make theirs. When they're ready, I can say for sure that I'll still be here.

Geez, sorry for that tangential and long winded post. BioWare's been kinda bothering me with all the condescension and poorly disguised berating we've been getting over the past week and half or so. I just want to be treated like a human being who's been pretty civil in voicing my opinions about something that's upset me to a degree that it's devoured most of my free time for neartly two weeks. Just felt I needed to say it.

#54271
DJBare

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Mulberry wrote...
Just want to bump this.  Patrick Weekes is repsonsible for some of the best parts of the ME series and it would really be a shame to see anything bad come from this.

It was mentioned in this thread as proven to be fake, but we still have no confirmation either way, personally I'm sticking with fake until someone proves otherwise, it's unprofessional for any writer to state in public negatives about the team they worked with, not to mention job suicide.

#54272
naes1984

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unclee wrote...

Jytra wrote...

Well, here's something kinda funny, for those who just love Mr. Moriarty's posts...

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1114043p1.html

[i]Colin Moriarty, Guides Guru:

*snip remainder*


That's not even his most hypocritical statements. Back when Bethesda announced and released Broken Steel he was one of the people at IGN who absolutely LOVED it....despite the fact that it changed the original ending that the developers put in the game.

And yes, the argument of, "Well that was changed for a GAMEPLAY reason" can be made, but the fact is: it changes the ending that some liked. I myself liked the original ending to FO3 (even though I recognize the plot hole that it had to jump through).

So his claims that he's lost respect for Bioware because changing the ending would be unfair to those who liked it are entirely hipocritical because he had no problem with another company doing the exact same thing just a few years ago.


COntact him on twitter or email Podcast Beyond on IGN. Call him out.

#54273
RussianOrc

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Koobarex wrote...

It's that time again. ;)

Marauder Shields: Shepard's Last Foe
EPISODE 9: The Thin Blue Line

In this episode... We take a peek inside the Alliance's flagship and join a familiar character in a gutsy decision. To ensure the best reading experience, play "Two Steps from Hell - Heart of Courage" in the background while reading. ;)


Open the full version here:  http://i.imgur.com/TmzoQ.jpg

If you have any problems viewing the full version, find it at my DA profile, here: http://koobismo.deviantart.com (be sure to comment or say "hi" :)). 

Previous episodes:
Episode 1: http://i40.tinypic.com/34eouuu.jpg
Episode 2: http://i.imgur.com/SU6Lq.jpg
Episode 3: http://i.imgur.com/eBrxF.jpg
Episode 4: http://i.imgur.com/59whH.jpg
Episode 5: http://i.imgur.com/6zyaQ.jpg
Episode 6: http://i.imgur.com/kw8MV.jpg
Episode 7: http://i.imgur.com/W2hfn.jpg 
Episode 8: http://i.imgur.com/ySrw1.jpg
Also available on: http://koobismo.deviantart.com

HOLD THE LINE!

P.S. 
As a set of additional info - I will be no longer able to produce these daily, the process is getting a little lengthy and complicated and I want to keep it that way to ensure I can tell the stories I really want to. As of today, expect these comics every 2 days.

:wizard::wizard::wizard:


Good work Koobarex. Image IPB

#54274
jinxter69

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Jytra wrote...

Well, here's something kinda funny, for those who just love Mr. Moriarty's posts...

http://ps3.ign.com/a.../1114043p1.html

Colin Moriarty, Guides Guru:


Obviously, the fact that Cole has been reverted back to his old self
(somewhat) is great news. After all, Greg and I did our fair share of
whining on Podcast Beyond after the new Cole was first shown on the
cover of Game Informer some months back.
Of course, I'd love for Sucker
Punch to bring back Cole's old voice, too, but hey – beggars can't be
choosers.




But beyond

the excitement I feel to have old Cole back in Infamous 2, I think the
sudden change in character model says a lot more. Indeed, it says a
great deal about Sucker Punch itself. This is a studio that listens to
its fans, cares what they want, and attempts to cater to as many of them
as possible.
There's no doubt that fans of a franchise can't be trusted
with every little thing (after all, look at how many people were
completely and utterly wrong when they predicted Wind Waker would suck
based solely on its graphics – I still laugh at those people today), but
it still delivers a rather important point.




But with the new Cole design, Sucker Punch heard loud and clear what
fans of Infamous wanted, and they delivered. Infinite amounts of kudos
to them for doing right by their community.
Fans of Infamous won't soon
forget it. Sucker Punch is one of Sony's most valuable developers. They
are tuned-in with the PS3 faithful, and it's things like this that prove
it.



What a bloddy hippocrite.


Awesome post...thank you. He IS a hippocrite.

#54275
Graywolf633

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TSC_1 wrote...

Graywolf633 wrote...

I mean, I don't need a happy ending (I'd still like one, of course), but I would have been fine with Shepard dying as long as the consequences were explained a little better and the galaxy wasn't completely screwed over.


I tend to agree. But, you know what? At this point, screw it. In for a penny, in for a pound. I do want a happy ending to be an option. I do want Shep to reunite with his/her LI and live in a galaxy with mass relays. Where is it written in stone that happy endings are juvenile? Where is it written in stone that players shouldn't get what they want in a game about choices?

So. Yes. Bioware: give me my happy ending. And make sure to give other people their heroic sacrifices. Because that's what we want to choose.


I agree. The name-calling about us being juvenile for wanting happy endings is ridiculous. So what? I wanted to see my Paragon Shep build Tali a house on the Rannoch. I wanted Shepard to retire to the Normandy and spend the rest of his days as an exalted hero known throughout the galaxy. Maybe even be promoted to Admiral or at least Captain. More than anything, I wanted to see Shepard's sacrifice save Garrus, Liara, Joker, Ashley, and the rest of the galaxy if he should be sacrificed at all. Those goodbye speeches were some of the saddest things I've ever heard, especially Garrus as my Shep's best buddy. They deserve a happy ending, and so do we. 

I will never forget how upset I was when I realized that Garrus and Ashley had been disintegrated in Harbinger's beam of doom... Then, Ash randomly steps out of the crashed Normandy and I think "WTF? Why would you abandon me after those beautiful speeches of standing together until the very end?" Now, I know I won't abandon the hope of gaining better endings even if our antagonists continue to slight us because I know we're doing right by the series we all love. 

So, I will HOLD THE LINE in the spirit of Captain Kirrahe and Marauder Shields (whom I should have listened to on my first playthrough as I was killed several times by him and should have taken a hint by then). But, alas, I persevered and was rewarded with the most depressing and unsatisfactory endings I've ever seen.