101103 réponses à ce sujet

[kewnsty]

i also asked what about the choices u made in 1 and 2/ and 2./95? lol wouldnt u want them included in the ending>?? .. he was meh.
wtf

[Crossleft]

hey guys I know everyones been feeling down tonight so heres a fun fact I just noticed

pretty sure the announcer in the swtor ads is the same voice actor who does Admiral Hackett
http://www.youtube.c...036732&kw=SWTOR

now everytime I see one of those ads it ends with "Hackett, out" in my head hahah
anyways I only just noticed and thought it was funny enough to mention

keep up the good work
Hold the Line

[NeverQuiteAwake]

SkaldFish wrote...

kewnsty wrote...

the only time i talked to a PRO ending guy. he said the ending was open to interptations * he liked that* yes it was bleak. yes there are plot holes !! . but it shows in the end the star gazer guy . that there is alittle bit of life however long in the future it is. is still alive .
thats his whole reasoning.

Yes, I've seen that as well. So it might be true that many people who like the ending are actually referring to the general theme, and aren't really concerned about issues with its execution.

I don't know. Just trying to understand...

So, it sounds like he's okay with a loose ended, depressing, plot hole-filled ending because there's just the tiniest speck of hope in the far distant future with people we care nothing for because we have no idea who they are.

Oh, and speculation for everyone

Modifié par Little Miss Angel, 24 mars 2012 - 07:11 .

[bowery tuff]

Little Miss Angel wrote...

My friend just finished ME3 too. She pretty much said the same things, also liked the indoctrination theory. But, boy, she was really mad. She said it was nice to know other people were pissed too.

I pretty much had to take a 15 minute break to try and answer his questions. Unfortunately most of my answers fell into the "beats me" category. I asked him what choice he made and he picked destroy. He said, "Well that's been the whole point; to destroy the Reapers." He then said he didn't even know why the other two were even options because it didn't make any sense for Shepard to just turn around and do exactly what Saren and TIM were trying to do. He also wanted to know why he couldn't tell the God Child to **** off and why he was supposed to care about this random kid they introduced because he cared way more about Garrus and the rest of the crew. I told him the worst part for me was that when the kid's shuttle blew up I just kind of shrugged and said, "Let that be a lesson. If there's a Reaper attack and Commander Shepard comes along and offers to help you, ACCEPT THE GESTURE!!!"  You have a 99.9 percent chance of survival with him compared to the 0 percent without him.

[-PG-Skyre]

Iconoclaste wrote...
There is a big issue at stake here, and I think it relates to "ego". This "artistic integrity" thing, where we apparently cannot address the legitimacy of the "endings" since they are the sole "prerogative" of the "authors", the fact that some react in immature manners, insulting Bioware's staff while we have absolutely no way to know what happened in the creation process, the accusations of "entitlement" directed at the fanbase that seem to find an easy echo in some media, etc.

I think the best reaction is to simply do our best to be more "mature" in our way to "hold the line".

I have an honest interest in hearing the other sides oppinion. I kinda hope if someone comes up with a good reason, It might make attempting to play ME again a little less painful. But beyond that, I'm generally intested to hear what others think because I don't see what they see in the end.
Having people turn around and start insulting me simply because I'm interested seems a tad weird. I mean, you wouldnt think saying "Hey, why do you like the ending anyways mate?" would be a cause for hostility...but apparently it is. I find it rather sad really, when it comes down to it. So much for an intelligent conversation on the topic =/

[SkaldFish]

kewnsty wrote...

i also asked what about the choices u made in 1 and 2/ and 2./95? lol wouldnt u want them included in the ending>?? .. he was meh.
wtf

Well, it must have to do at least partially with whether you are playing it primary as a shooter or as an RPG. In a shooter, the story is more just a supporting framework for the fights. The notion of narrative quality doesn't necessaily enter the picture.

[Iconoclaste]

It would be reasonable to think that many players simply take the plot at face value, and if some things don't add-up, they simply leave it and go bashing some more villains in another game. Maybe they simply do not relate to the game as most passionate fans do, maybe they did not read one bit of the CODEX, who knows, and in that respect, who cares...

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 24 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[bowery tuff]

Iconoclaste wrote...

It would be reasonable to think that many players simply take the plot at face value, and if some things don't add-up, they simply leave it and go bashing some more villains in another game. Maybe they simply do not relate to the game as most passionate fans do, maybe they did not read one bit of the CODEX, who knows, and in that respect, who cares...

When I beat it, I thought I would probably like it a lot more if it was the only Mass Effect game I ever played. Unfortunately ...

[Ampmaster]

I still haven't met any one I know who's a pro-ending type person. I really wish I could actually because I really want to hear about it from someone who's discussing it calmly and the like instead of hurling insults at me from the intertubes.

That said I think my bottom line is unassailable with any argument. If my reaction to an ending of anything is to go write a 12,000 word epilogue in the name of giving myself closure and slapping some spackle on the gaping plot and continuity holes then it's not a good ending.

[NeverQuiteAwake]

bowery tuff wrote...

I pretty much had to take a 15 minute break to try and answer his questions. Unfortunately most of my answers fell into the "beats me" category. I asked him what choice he made and he picked destroy. He said, "Well that's been the whole point; to destroy the Reapers." He then said he didn't even know why the other two were even options because it didn't make any sense for Shepard to just turn around and do exactly what Saren and TIM were trying to do. He also wanted to know why he couldn't tell the God Child to **** off and why he was supposed to care about this random kid they introduced because he cared way more about Garrus and the rest of the crew. I told him the worst part for me was that when the kid's shuttle blew up I just kind of shrugged and said, "Let that be a lesson. If there's a Reaper attack and Commander Shepard comes along and offers to help you, ACCEPT THE GESTURE!!!"  You have a 99.9 percent chance of survival with him compared to the 0 percent without him.

My friend and I had a very similar conversation. We both picked destroy too, the other choices didn't make much sense to us. She said she just ***ing shot TIM to stop him from trying to control the Reapers. And then we ranted about uniting the freaking universe only to blow it all to hell, especially the geth. She was particularly angry about being lied to about the 16 different endings. Anyway, she's pulling for a new ending. She's still fuming.

[Debi-Tage]

SkaldFish wrote...

kewnsty wrote...

i also asked what about the choices u made in 1 and 2/ and 2./95? lol wouldnt u want them included in the ending>?? .. he was meh.
wtf

Well, it must have to do at least partially with whether you are playing it primary as a shooter or as an RPG. In a shooter, the story is more just a supporting framework for the fights. The notion of narrative quality doesn't necessaily enter the picture.

"I dunno what that meant...but, wait!  Look at all the pretty explosions...!"

[wicked_being]

Well we've been holding the line since the first week of March and I know we don't have a "leader" but I gotta ask...

- who's managing the Retake twitter account?
- who's managing the Retake FB account?
- how do we consolidate the views/opinions and 'demands'?

I'm asking this in light of what happened with that interview by Robb (I don't even know who Robb is >.<).

[Talon_Wu]

SkaldFish wrote...

<DISCLAIMER>I don't mean this to sound like bashing the opinions of others; I just find it very interesting psychologically and sociologically.</DISCLAIMER>

I've been reading comments (not here; out on the InterTubes) about the ending (for and against), and I noticed a theme or pattern in the "pro-ending" comments. They go like this (paraphrased):

"I thought the ending was great. Sure, there were some plot holes, and the Normandy crash-landing made no sense, and I don't understand how my squadmates for the final push died, then show up back on the Normandy, and that little energy kid was kind of weird and said some things I question, but aside from that, it was amazing!"

The structure is

[It was great] except that [just about everything about it wasn't so great] but it was still great

I just find that really fascinating.

It's a lot like "Organics will be killed by Synthetics, so I send Synthetics to kill Organics," isn't it?

[MstrJedi Kyle]

I've been out of the loop for the last couple days. Have there been any developments recently?

[Debi-Tage]

wicked_being wrote...

Well we've been holding the line since the first week of March and I know we don't have a "leader" but I gotta ask...

- who's managing the Retake twitter account?
- who's managing the Retake FB account?
- how do we consolidate the views/opinions and 'demands'?

I'm asking this in light of what happened with that interview by Robb (I don't even know who Robb is >.<).

Well, I dunno know either, but you're one step ahead of me cause i dont even know what happened in that interview?

[KLGChaos]

kewnsty wrote...

the only time i talked to a PRO ending guy. he said the ending was open to interptations * he liked that* yes it was bleak. yes there are plot holes !! . but it shows in the end the star gazer guy . that there is alittle bit of life however long in the future it is. is still alive .
thats his whole reasoning.

Yeah, a lot of pro critics love those kinds of endings. The general public, however, doesn't. Just look at how many people hates the endings of The Sopranos and Lost. I use my imagination all the time, but when I'm playing a game, I want closure and most importantly, consistency. That last bit was thrown completely out of the window. The only way I could accept that is if the indoctrination theory was true and there was more ending stuff coming.

Even if Indoc is true, though, if they make us pay for the ending it'll set an even worse precedent than us trying to change the endings. Soon after movie theatres will start stopping movies with 20 min to go and saying customers will need to come back and pay more money to see the real ending.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 24 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Ampmaster]

wicked_being wrote...

Well we've been holding the line since the first week of March and I know we don't have a "leader" but I gotta ask...

- who's managing the Retake twitter account?
- who's managing the Retake FB account?
- how do we consolidate the views/opinions and 'demands'?

I'm asking this in light of what happened with that interview by Robb (I don't even know who Robb is >.<).

We really don't have "leadership" persay we're more an autonomous collective... (points if you get the reference) there's been one fellow who did the Telegraph and BBC interviews and then the guy managing the FB page who've been "up front" when the interviews have been going on but that's circumstance as much as anything. Our demands are fairly clear and generic when it comes down to it. If we wanted to have every specific thing ever... well we'd be waiting till the sun burns out, but generally speaking we all want the same thing. Closure from an ending that makes sense.

[Debi-Tage]

KLGChaos wrote...

kewnsty wrote...

the only time i talked to a PRO ending guy. he said the ending was open to interptations * he liked that* yes it was bleak. yes there are plot holes !! . but it shows in the end the star gazer guy . that there is alittle bit of life however long in the future it is. is still alive .
thats his whole reasoning.

Yeah, a lot of pro critics love those kinds of endings. The general public, however, doesn't. Just look at how many people hates the endings of The Sopranos and Lost. I use my imagination all the time, but when I'm playing a game, I want closure and most importantly, consistency. That last bit was thrown completely out of the window.

Not to mention the fact all these video games cost quite a bit more than ten bucks for a movie, a book, flipping on your tv or a subscription to HBO...if people want to get all nitty gritty

[Annora]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

One disturbing thing I've noticed is when I ask someone who likes the ending why they like it, they turn hostile. Damn near every time I've asked why someone likes the ending, the person starts insulting my intelligence, understanding and...well...anything else they can think of (and no, I don't ask in any insulting way).

The thing I've noticed is when someone asks me why I was okay with the ending, as soon as I say anything, they start jumping down my throat about how I must be blind, or not a fan, or a corporate shill. Can you blame people for being defensive about that? It's absolute lunacy, this entire situation.

You have completely over-the-top people on both sides fanning the flames, driving a wedge in the community, and driving people away. I was okay with the ending, I was super excited to play it again, and now I find myself so sick of this entire boondoggle that it's actually sapped my will to play. And not just Mass Effect, the idea of playing any game right now is just so distasteful to me. Which, in turn, makes me angry that this silliness has affected me in such a way.

[PhoenixDove1]

Still awake in arizona, still holding the line. I wish I had more to say because I want Bioware to know out of sight is not out of mind. For the most part, for me you all have said everything there is to say and much more eloquently then I could say it. But, I guess this is my friendly reminder to them, and hopefully motivation for you guys that I'm still here and in it to the bitter end. And by bitter end I mean in it until there is something concrete, not open for interpretation, that the endings will be fixed and not just 'clarified'.

I asked once before but am not good at organizing things, should we do another mass email/letter writing day again, not to be mean but to, as I said before, remind them out of sight is not out of mind?

[Kathris89]

 One of my younger brothers is in No Man's Land, he didn't like the ending but he also doesn't understand why I am taking it so bad, when I point out everything I think was wrong, he agrees with me, but then simply brushes it off, I think he's kinda afraid to really be against what BW is doing, just letting it flow and forget about. I can't do it though. I do wonder what arguments the pro-ending people have, since I really would like to understand their position, but no one is really taking the time to explain it rationally, oh well...

Now, this friend I have from college (I just see him once a week and we hadn't seen each other since the game came out), he walked up to me when class finished and told me "Don't you think the ending was b***t?", and at that, I felt really good, not because he was so thoroughly disappointed mind you, but because now he's one more that stands with us! 

Holding the Line!! 

Modifié par Kathris89, 24 mars 2012 - 07:37 .

[naes1984]

Holding the line in Arizona. Man, look at the scores of Mass Effect 3 on Amazon. That's gotta sting.

[Debi-Tage]

Kathris89 wrote...

 One of my younger brothers is in No Man's Land, he didn't like the ending but he also doesn't understand why I am taking it so bad, when I point out everything I think was wrong, he agrees with me, but then simply brushes it off, I think he's kinda afraid to really be against what BW is doing, just letting it flow and forget about. I can't do it though. I do wonder what arguments the pro-ending people have, since I really would like to understand their position, but no one is really taking the time to explain it rationally, oh well...

Now, this friend I have from college (I just see him once a week and we hadn't seen each other since the game came out), he walked up to me when class finished and told me "Don't you think the ending was b***t?", and at that, I felt really good, not because he was also so thoroughly disappointed mind you, but because now he's one more that stands with us now! 

Holding the Line!! 

Just a thought, but I'm personally a very analytical person, I also love ambiguity where it belongs, but tend to get annoyed when it is used cheaply (or what I perceive as cheap...emotional shock and awe) . There are many people who are waaay more laid back than me, maybe that's the difference in outlooks about this whole thing, I dunno?

[SkaldFish]

Anastassia wrote...

-PG-Skyre wrote...

One disturbing thing I've noticed is when I ask someone who likes the ending why they like it, they turn hostile. Damn near every time I've asked why someone likes the ending, the person starts insulting my intelligence, understanding and...well...anything else they can think of (and no, I don't ask in any insulting way).

The thing I've noticed is when someone asks me why I was okay with the ending, as soon as I say anything, they start jumping down my throat about how I must be blind, or not a fan, or a corporate shill. Can you blame people for being defensive about that? It's absolute lunacy, this entire situation.

You have completely over-the-top people on both sides fanning the flames, driving a wedge in the community, and driving people away. I was okay with the ending, I was super excited to play it again, and now I find myself so sick of this entire boondoggle that it's actually sapped my will to play. And not just Mass Effect, the idea of playing any game right now is just so distasteful to me. Which, in turn, makes me angry that this silliness has affected me in such a way.

I'm so sorry to hear that's been your experience. It seemed like most all of the "Retake" responses on various comment areas around the InterTubes had been civil. I have seen flaming on boths sides here on BSN, though. It's discouraging to hear that you haven't been able to have a calm, civil discussion. PM me if you want a better experience. :-).

[NeverQuiteAwake]

Anastassia wrote...

-PG-Skyre wrote...

One disturbing thing I've noticed is when I ask someone who likes the ending why they like it, they turn hostile. Damn near every time I've asked why someone likes the ending, the person starts insulting my intelligence, understanding and...well...anything else they can think of (and no, I don't ask in any insulting way).

The thing I've noticed is when someone asks me why I was okay with the ending, as soon as I say anything, they start jumping down my throat about how I must be blind, or not a fan, or a corporate shill. Can you blame people for being defensive about that? It's absolute lunacy, this entire situation.

You have completely over-the-top people on both sides fanning the flames, driving a wedge in the community, and driving people away. I was okay with the ending, I was super excited to play it again, and now I find myself so sick of this entire boondoggle that it's actually sapped my will to play. And not just Mass Effect, the idea of playing any game right now is just so distasteful to me. Which, in turn, makes me angry that this silliness has affected me in such a way.

Yeah, there tends to be people from both sides attacking one another. For the most part, people are civil, but there are outliers on both sides. I find this whole situation really regrettable, and I wish I didn't have to come here everyday to talk about my disappointment, but it serves as my daily catharsis. And you're right, it does really put a damper on everything, to see such outrage.