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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#59351
Geinen

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Ampmaster wrote...

Didn't Mr. Gamble have a tweet or two that said pretty much EXACTLY that? "if you knew what we had planned.... you'd hold on to your copies forever" or something to that effect...

Honestly if this works it's one of the greatest marketing stunts in history. It's also going to ravage the core fanbase and make for a LOT of upset people


The moment public begin to associate your product with distaste, or begin to distrust your company statements...you've done damage. 

Regardless of the intent or if it was a misunderstanding...they have mishandled the PR spectacularly.  Because whatever they said at first, the PR release painted us as being "minority, most vocal" etc etc....they never would have said that if they had foreseen this.  If they had planned this all along, they would have drummed up controversy like:

"Theories abound.  What does it mean?" (meant to stir up controversy) instead of  "Some minorities cant let go of their stories.." (meant to hold us at arms length).

#59352
Fallenfromthesky

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chujwamdotego wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...
@chujwamdotego just the links to the site and some figures


Thank You so very much :)

Looking at those figures - that must have hurt a bit.

So now my words and thoughts go to Bioware - please make beautiful ending DLC with many possible endings (happy ones included), spare mass relays and all we'll be okay.

Just as it used to be.  And do not pull the stunt like this again!


I agree that BW should NEVER pull a trick like this again but the sales figures don't tell the whole story and without further data, comparisons and sales figures from later weeks (10+ weeks) all we can reliabily say is that sales have significantly dropped for the 2nd week after release. I confess it will be interesting to see how this sales situation will play out (Business Management student).

Hold the Line comrades across the world 

#59353
Iucounou

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Ampmaster wrote...

Didn't Mr. Gamble have a tweet or two that said pretty much EXACTLY that? "if you knew what we had planned.... you'd hold on to your copies forever" or something to that effect...

Honestly if this works it's one of the greatest marketing stunts in history. It's also going to ravage the core fanbase and make for a LOT of upset people


Yes, indeed he did. All of which makes the "conspiracy" theory more likely. But as for upset people, there's one right here, in case anyone hadn't noticed from my posts :lol:

Being manipulated is not something that sits well with me. I don't mind being deluged with advertising and publicity and marketing. But to be used to do Bioware's own job for them, that rankles quite a considerable amount.

It may be a clever stunt, what they have done. But there is such a thing as being too clever for your own good.

#59354
Debi-Tage

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SkaldFish wrote...

Interesting quote from this (pre-release) interview with Mac Walters:

"...between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the
things I looked at was -- I don't know if I'd call it the writing, but the
cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look
at that and say, 'Wow, those are some very compelling people.' I'm happy
to sit there and watch what's going on in that scene -- I don't even need
interactivity in that scene because it's so well done
." - Mac Walters (emphasis mine)

Yeah, who needs silly ol' interactivity in an interactive game? And there you have it.


Its like all the prelease quotes from the devs foreshadow everything...Casey implying that the entire ME3 storyline, WAS your Sheps "ending" whilst slowly taking away the dialog options. After that point (the London scene??) who cares...let's come up with whatever we want now that player agency is wrapped up! :blink:

...hey, lets go set it up for our next franchise! :o

I want to go back in time and shake them!!! 

#59355
ThePanzer99

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Fallenfromthesky wrote...


LazarusMP wrote...
ME3 Sales numbers from www.vgchartz.com/

USA Sales Week Ending March 10 www.vgchartz.com/weekly/40979/USA/

Mass Effect 3
XBox     1,066,947
PS3         289,941
PC           114,492

USA Sales Week Ending March 17 www.vgchartz.com/weekly/40986/USA/

Mass Effect 3
XBox        200,521     -81.2%                       
PS3           57,596     -80.1%                        
PC             24,580     -78.5%

So... An across all platforms 80% drop in sales from week 1 to week 2 of one of the biggest AAA titles of the year. :blink:  I think that's being noticed...


@chujwamdotego just the links to the site and some figures


Good lord. An 80% drop for week 2?? I new word of mouth would have an impact but...wow. I'm curious to see the week 3 and 4 as time goes on. At this rate its going to be a bloodbath, much worse than the DA:2 versus DA:O sales drop off.

#59356
Cybermortis

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chrrue_ wrote...
There's allways a winner, but only time can tell who :). But I think, maybe we as a community have won (not in terms of a new ending) but I think it's been nice to discuss in a civil way, few trolling, flaming,...


I'd use 'customer' rather than 'community'.

Regardless of what is or is not presented at PAX, games companies (and indeed industry in general) will be looking at what happened here in considerable detail. One of the things they will be taking to heart is the lesson that gamers are not 'whiny, entitled children'. The other is that they can and will raise a fuss that would do credit to any protest group, even without any signs of large scale orginisation.

This is going to make companies even more careful in how they deal with their customers and react to complaints from them. After all, if Bioware - a company that prided itself on good customer relations - can be sent reeling to the point they are having to call spokespeople out of bed at 3am to handle one errant tweet, and they have to drag one of their CEO's out to make a statement less than two weeks after the product has hit the shelves...Well if this could happen to Bioware it could happen to anyone. 

#59357
SkaldFish

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(edited for de-pyramidization)

-PG-Skyre wrote...
To be fair, they all did try to warn us, however at the start...all a lot of people did was take their anger out on Jess and whoever else they could find. Imagine tens of thousands of people abusing and insulting you, even if you were trying to warn them that something was coming (trying as much as was allowed by bosses).

If what we got WAS the end to ME3, shame on them. At this point, its just an idea...but still, we haven't been the easiest crowd to talk to. Tonight I've had 2hrs sleep and spent the rest of the time talking to others on their experiences with people who dont like the ending...and...well...no wonder people think we are a bunch of whiny children. Not saying its us here, but anyone anti-ending is automatically seen as a Retake member. 

At any rate, we can't cast all the blame on them for not telling us everything. We, in general, have come across as hostile to a lot of people. So before we can expect nice things from them, we need to make sure the hostilities stop.

I agree with you about the hostility; that doesn't get us anywhere, and has already cost us more than we might want to admit. But IF there was a plan for a second-wave "here's what really happened" stunt, my mind will be officially blown if no one at BioWare realized that leading players to believe this was the one-and-only ending was going to cause explosive and damaging blowback.

Imagine buying a new refrigerator that leaks all over the floor the first time you use the filtered water dispenser. You call the company and speak to a customer rep:

YOU: My new refrigerator is leaking all over the floor.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's leaking all over the floor? [giggles]
YOU: Well... yes, of course I'm sure. There's water all over the place, and it's coming from the refrigerator.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's coming from the refrigerator? [sniggers]
YOU: OF COURSE I'M SURE!
REP: Well, you might just want to consider leaving that water on the floor until April.
YOU: What???
REP: Well, let me just say that all of us here are leaving our water on the floor until April.
YOU: I don't understand... I can't leave water on the floor for weeks! That's crazy! This needs to be fixed!
REP: That's really all I can say right now. Goodbye.

Modifié par SkaldFish, 24 mars 2012 - 08:05 .


#59358
ThePanzer99

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Debi-Tage wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

Interesting quote from this (pre-release) interview with Mac Walters:

"...between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, one of the
things I looked at was -- I don't know if I'd call it the writing, but the
cinematic style and delivery of Uncharted 2 really drew my eye. I look
at that and say, 'Wow, those are some very compelling people.' I'm happy
to sit there and watch what's going on in that scene -- I don't even need
interactivity in that scene because it's so well done
." - Mac Walters (emphasis mine)

Yeah, who needs silly ol' interactivity in an interactive game? And there you have it.


Its like all the prelease quotes from the devs foreshadow everything...Casey implying that the entire ME3 storyline, WAS your Sheps "ending" whilst slowly taking away the dialog options. After that point (the London scene??) who cares...let's come up with whatever we want now that player agency is wrapped up! :blink:

...hey, lets go set it up for our next franchise! :o

I want to go back in time and shake them!!! 


I think I read somewhere else that Bioware considered TOR to be their new flagship and moved their talent to that dev team. Not such a hot choice given that TOR is a WoW clone with dialogue, that would have been innovative in 2008 but not so much now. If true, then their decision to effectively "bury" their old IP franchise with a galactic dark age as back drop was just so much stupid I can't believe it.

This whole thing makes me go...what? I mean...what? Am I high? What?

#59359
Fallenfromthesky

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ThePanzer99 wrote...

Good lord. An 80% drop for week 2?? I new word of mouth would have an impact but...wow. I'm curious to see the week 3 and 4 as time goes on. At this rate its going to be a bloodbath, much worse than the DA:2 versus DA:O sales drop off.


As a business student i'm really interseted in both how BW will handle PR for both ME3 and future title and how these sales will develop but atm there is not enough data to conclude much other than after the first week sales have dropped

#59360
Spartas Husky

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[quote]Fallenfromthesky wrote...


[quote]LazarusMP wrote...
ME3 Sales numbers from www.vgchartz.com/

USA Sales Week Ending March 10 www.vgchartz.com/weekly/40979/USA/

Mass Effect 3
XBox     1,066,947
PS3         289,941
PC           114,492

USA Sales Week Ending March 17 www.vgchartz.com/weekly/40986/USA/

Mass Effect 3
XBox        200,521     -81.2%                       
PS3           57,596     -80.1%                        
PC             24,580     -78.5%

So... An across all platforms 80% drop in sales from week 1 to week 2 of one of the biggest AAA titles of the year. :blink:  I think that's being noticed...
[/quote]



heh

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 24 mars 2012 - 08:07 .


#59361
Debi-Tage

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SkaldFish wrote...

I agree with you about the hostility; that doesn't get us anywhere, and has already cost us more than we might want to admit. But IF there was a plan for a second-wave "here's what really happened" stunt, my mind will be officially blown if no one at BioWare realized that leading players to believe this was the one-and-only ending was going to cause explosive and damaging blowback.

Imagine buying a new refrigerator that leaks all over the floor the first time you use the filtered water dispenser. You call the company and speak to a customer rep:

YOU: My new refrigerator is leaking all over the floor.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's leaking all over the floor? [giggles]
YOU: Well... yes, of course I'm sure. There's water all over the place, and it's coming from the refrigerator.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's coming from the refrigerator? [sniggers]
YOU: OF COURSE I'M SURE!
REP: Well, you might just want to consider leaving that water on the floor until April.
YOU: What???
REP: Well, let me just say that all of us here are leaving our water on the floor until April.
YOU: I don't understand... I can't leave water on the floor for weeks! That's crazy! This needs to be fixed!
REP: That's really all I can say right now. Goodbye.


ROFL!!! I just spit coffee all over my monitor!! :lol:

#59362
Denethar

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Fallenfromthesky wrote...

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Good lord. An 80% drop for week 2?? I new word of mouth would have an impact but...wow. I'm curious to see the week 3 and 4 as time goes on. At this rate its going to be a bloodbath, much worse than the DA:2 versus DA:O sales drop off.


As a business student i'm really interseted in both how BW will handle PR for both ME3 and future title and how these sales will develop but atm there is not enough data to conclude much other than after the first week sales have dropped



Most big titles has a 65-80% drop off for week 2, ME2 had 72% on xbox 360...so it's not that big of a disaster. That said, they have still probably lost at least 350k over all three platforms for this, add DLC to that and it's a loss they hadn't expected I'm sure. Could also add that the money they spent on commercials seems at least three times as high as ME 2, so overall we've probably caused them a lot of money.

#59363
SkaldFish

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Debi-Tage wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

I agree with you about the hostility; that doesn't get us anywhere, and has already cost us more than we might want to admit. But IF there was a plan for a second-wave "here's what really happened" stunt, my mind will be officially blown if no one at BioWare realized that leading players to believe this was the one-and-only ending was going to cause explosive and damaging blowback.

Imagine buying a new refrigerator that leaks all over the floor the first time you use the filtered water dispenser. You call the company and speak to a customer rep:

YOU: My new refrigerator is leaking all over the floor.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's leaking all over the floor? [giggles]
YOU: Well... yes, of course I'm sure. There's water all over the place, and it's coming from the refrigerator.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's coming from the refrigerator? [sniggers]
YOU: OF COURSE I'M SURE!
REP: Well, you might just want to consider leaving that water on the floor until April.
YOU: What???
REP: Well, let me just say that all of us here are leaving our water on the floor until April.
YOU: I don't understand... I can't leave water on the floor for weeks! That's crazy! This needs to be fixed!
REP: That's really all I can say right now. Goodbye.


ROFL!!! I just spit coffee all over my monitor!! :lol:

You might want to leave that coffee on your monitor until April, BTW...<_<

#59364
-PG-Skyre

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SkaldFish wrote...
I agree with you about the hostility; that doesn't get us anywhere, and has already cost us more than we might want to admit. But IF there was a plan for a second-wave "here's what really happened" stunt, my mind will be officially blown if no one at BioWare realized that leading players to believe this was the one-and-only ending was going to cause explosive and damaging blowback.

Imagine buying a new refrigerator that leaks all over the floor the first time you use the filtered water dispenser. You call the company and speak to a customer rep:

YOU: My new refrigerator is leaking all over the floor.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's leaking all over the floor? [giggles]
YOU: Well... yes, of course I'm sure. There's water all over the place, and it's coming from the refrigerator.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's coming from the refrigerator? [sniggers]
YOU: OF COURSE I'M SURE!
REP: Well, you might just want to consider leaving that water on the floor until April.
YOU: What???
REP: Well, let me just say that all of us here are leaving our water on the floor until April.
YOU: I don't understand... I can't leave water on the floor for weeks! That's crazy! This needs to be fixed!
REP: That's really all I can say right now. Goodbye.


I can see your point. But a marketing stunt is the only way they will get away with the majority of their skin. I'd much rather a marketing stunt then to find out what we got WAS really the ending. I'd rather still believe BW can come up with good work than think they have lost all ability, even if the good work comes with crap marketing ideas.

#59365
EliteOp-11

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Nope no choices like in DAO, Shep dies and mass relays are lost save for a 5 second breath.

#59366
chmarr

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bioware releases ME3 with an ending like the one we have i feel was DILIBIRATE, they knew PAX was coming up and they wanted the fans to ensure they played the game fully.

what bioware DID NOT expect was the fans to finish the game so fast...i mean some people finished the game in UNDER 24 hours and since then the "retake Mass Effect" started off.

the reason bioware said nothing is that they had this planned but NOT this soon, so bioware has NOT comented on anything except to back up there sh*tty ending, not SOME staff have actually said that the ending we have IS the ending but left so many plot holes even the newcomers to the ME universe spotted them.
it was found that all version across the platforms had the day one DLC ON DISC and was proven

after a few days of the RME was in full swing, smaller media outlets were reporting on the ending and yet bioware did not comment or were hyper cryptic in replies.
some mid-line news sites started to report on the ending and again bioware did not say anything, THEN in this same week the childs play charity fund raiser started and then the chit hit the fan

a few days after that mainstream news WORLDWIDE TELEVISION reported on the debacle of ME3 and thats when one of bioware's co-founders released a press release which critisied the fans for picking the game apart using "artistic integrity" which was then ripped apart by other game developers, real media artists and even artists from art schools all called him on his bullsh*t

we have been told since the 9Th of march that bioware would not release ANY details of DLC untill april.


which takes us to FORBES, oh yes forbes a TRUSTED WORLD WIDE BUISINESS website made reports on ME3, the chit hit the fan hard qand well bioware since that happend have PARTLY confirmed "THE TRUTH" DLC (well they dident name it yet but we call it this)

its THIS DLC which has me REALLY intrested, its like bioware had planned for this the WHOLE time, WE THE FANS all came up with the plot holes which are obvious, we have fans at each others throats BUT in the end we all came togeather and started to fight the good fight.

now biowares co-founder kept shoving "but we have 75 reviews saying they loved the game and thought it was great" what we ALL found out by sending emails to the reviewers or sending tweets to them was this, ALL of them NEVER FINISHED THE GAME, NONE OF THEM knew about the ending and SOME actually retracted there game score.

the co-founder then based that ME3 had HIGH metacritic scores which since our requests were posted the metacritic scores have been dropping.

now onto tweets.
there have been a TON of tweets put on #masseffect that have basicly written off what the co-founder said and have also belittled the fans, some tweets from other people calling us "entitled brats who threw there toys out the pram" and thats the NICEST one.

but then those tweets are then deleted by there own staff for obvious reasons.

were being played with by bioware and there PR staff, i think were being abused for publicity and i can BET that EA will HIRE FAKE PROTESTERS (like they recently did do) and make us look bad.

at PAX i bet they announce the VERY DLC we have been talking about and which they DENIED and they have refused point blank to engage us in a chat, they ALL kept saying "not untill april" and april we all know is PAX and there 2 hour panel slot was halved to one hour, the 2nd hour was supposed to have been a Q & A with the fans but due to the vast amount of bad press and massivle declining sales world wide and the trouble they will get from fans they removed it.

the knock on effect of all of the above has also affected biowares parent company Electroinc Arts (EA) stock market prices (there stock dropped 9 points which is in fact the worst thing to happen).

so from now to april 5th we are being ignored by bioware, ignored by there PR team, ignored and belittled by the founders, belittled by one of the lead writers, ignored by there own help staff and to top it all off finding out that the lead writer and a friend rewrote the entire game which delayed the release at HUGE cost to EA.

the game was in fact ready for december but due to greed they removed missions and an essental part of the game only to sell it as day one dlc which was already on the disc.

using multiplayer to increase EMS is just retarded, 50% all the time you always lose way more than you should at 100%.

so yeah were getting bent over and reciving the meatlog up the rectum treament were being used and abused by a company we trusted but not now

if the ending they gave us was a prelude to DLC then they should have put

"TO BE CONTINUED"

THAT way we would have went batchit crazy waiting for the dlc and none of the negative news would have happend

Modifié par chmarr, 24 mars 2012 - 08:14 .


#59367
chujwamdotego

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Denethar wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Good lord. An 80% drop for week 2?? I new word of mouth would have an impact but...wow. I'm curious to see the week 3 and 4 as time goes on. At this rate its going to be a bloodbath, much worse than the DA:2 versus DA:O sales drop off.


As a business student i'm really interseted in both how BW will handle PR for both ME3 and future title and how these sales will develop but atm there is not enough data to conclude much other than after the first week sales have dropped



Most big titles has a 65-80% drop off for week 2, ME2 had 72% on xbox 360...so it's not that big of a disaster. That said, they have still probably lost at least 350k over all three platforms for this, add DLC to that and it's a loss they hadn't expected I'm sure. Could also add that the money they spent on commercials seems at least three times as high as ME 2, so overall we've probably caused them a lot of money.


We have not caused Bioware to loose money. It's their own fault.

I strongly believe that they can regain trust and sell future products by simply delivering promised features.

I do not know if this sales drop is normal or not. But in my books it would be huge...

#59368
Bizantura

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If and I stress if they had an ace up their sleeves wouldn't they allready told us considering the severity of the backlash.
And if they go for the indoctrination story, how original would that be. The fans wrote it!!
Sorry, most likely 2 very inflated ego's got the better of everybody and the endresult is disastrous.

#59369
ThePanzer99

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Denethar wrote...

Fallenfromthesky wrote...

ThePanzer99 wrote...

Good lord. An 80% drop for week 2?? I new word of mouth would have an impact but...wow. I'm curious to see the week 3 and 4 as time goes on. At this rate its going to be a bloodbath, much worse than the DA:2 versus DA:O sales drop off.


As a business student i'm really interseted in both how BW will handle PR for both ME3 and future title and how these sales will develop but atm there is not enough data to conclude much other than after the first week sales have dropped



Most big titles has a 65-80% drop off for week 2, ME2 had 72% on xbox 360...so it's not that big of a disaster. That said, they have still probably lost at least 350k over all three platforms for this, add DLC to that and it's a loss they hadn't expected I'm sure. Could also add that the money they spent on commercials seems at least three times as high as ME 2, so overall we've probably caused them a lot of money.


If I wasn't feeling lazy I'd go dig out the DA:O vs. DA2 chart. You could see with DA:O that it had that expected drop, but due to the quality of the game it "had legs" and good sales that I think grew over time instead of just tapering off. DA2 had the huge sales spike upfront and then dropped down, don't remember there being any dramatic upticks. It was hard to tell if word of mouth ganked DA2 or if everyone that wanted it just bought it upfront. It definitely didn't have legs after initial release though. (compared to DA:O anyway)

So that's good info on the expected drop off, but 80% is on the high side of the range you gave. I'm still surprised it was that much given it's really the only AAA title out there and as the end of the series had huge buzz.

I really wish I could see the TOR subscription decline from ME3, was it a drop in the bucket or were the numbers high enough to cause a dent? Don't think we'll ever find that out though...

DLC will be another thing, since I expect the first DLC to be non-ending based on whatever was in development I'm curious how well or if it will sell.

#59370
soltenshi

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Debi-Tage wrote...

SkaldFish wrote...

I agree with you about the hostility; that doesn't get us anywhere, and has already cost us more than we might want to admit. But IF there was a plan for a second-wave "here's what really happened" stunt, my mind will be officially blown if no one at BioWare realized that leading players to believe this was the one-and-only ending was going to cause explosive and damaging blowback.

Imagine buying a new refrigerator that leaks all over the floor the first time you use the filtered water dispenser. You call the company and speak to a customer rep:

YOU: My new refrigerator is leaking all over the floor.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's leaking all over the floor? [giggles]
YOU: Well... yes, of course I'm sure. There's water all over the place, and it's coming from the refrigerator.
REP: Hmmm... Are you sure it's coming from the refrigerator? [sniggers]
YOU: OF COURSE I'M SURE!
REP: Well, you might just want to consider leaving that water on the floor until April.
YOU: What???
REP: Well, let me just say that all of us here are leaving our water on the floor until April.
YOU: I don't understand... I can't leave water on the floor for weeks! That's crazy! This needs to be fixed!
REP: That's really all I can say right now. Goodbye.


ROFL!!! I just spit coffee all over my monitor!! :lol:


Ahh famn!
A good one! :D

#59371
Denethar

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To be honest, concerning Dragon age I think the yearly numbers shows everything.

Origins

2009 1,340,882N/A1,340,882
2010 531,911-60.3%1,872,793
2011344,446-35.2%2,217,239
201236,928-89.3%2,254,167

Dragon Age 2

2011  859,070N/A859,070

2012 35,763-95.8%894,833

Modifié par Denethar, 24 mars 2012 - 08:21 .


#59372
RussianOrc

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This thread is getting slow...
Come on people HOLD THE ****ING LINE!!

#59373
toffeetrooper

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holding

#59374
Morden2261

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This thread is an absolute monster, but I'd just like to add myself to the list of those dissatisfied with the ending. I won't bother with a long post going into detail even though, believe me, I could.

#59375
soltenshi

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RussianOrc wrote...

This thread is getting slow...
Come on people HOLD THE ****ING LINE!!

nihuya, derzim!)