101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Garrus]

Hi, guys. Any news?

Holding the line!

[Gi-Joe-Ge]

The purpose of video games is to distract players from their lifes for a short time and give them a good time.

If I wish to see art, I go to the museum or watch a sub-titled independend French art movie in a tiny cinema with 10 other people. Actually I sometimes do that and enjoy it a lot. But this is not what I bought ME3 for.

In my point of view the allegation Mass Effect trilogy being perceived as art is brought up solely to hide the fact that BW run out of time in the end which forced them to create an ending in a rush.

[Tyion133]

Just thought of another flaw with the Starchild !

We dont get to say ''I delete data like you on my way to real errors.''

[MetalCargo999]

lijygr wrote...

Today is the March, 26th - which means the date of e-mail campaign.
Sent my e-mail couple of minutes ago.
Here is goes:





Dear BioWare,

This mail is sent to you in support of #RetakeMassEffect movement.

I
understand that most probably my mail will not get any attention of
BioWare personnel, and will go directly to the Junk Mail folder. But
there always is the hope, you know.

This is my second letter,
and I decided to send it because I guess that you still did not
understand what we, your loyal fans, are demanding. I'm afraid that
there is the possibility, that you gonna miss the point second - and the
last - time, and make your loyal fans even more disappointed.

Based
on the Ray Muzyka statement and responses of BioWare personnel in Mass
Effect Twitter, it seems that all what you gonna provide to the fans is
some "clarification" and "closure".

Here is the problem. If you
would look into the BioWare Social Network forums postings, you would
find that the overwhelming majority of fans are not happy with the
Red-Green-Blue Explosion ending. They demand to get rid of RGB Explosion
ending completely. In other words, "clarification" is not enough.

We
do appreciate your artistic integrity and your vision, but we - as the
fans and the customers - want the endings to be completely different.
The existing endings contains so many plot holes (the
"supernova"-lization of the Galaxy due to Mass Effect Relay destruction -
remember the Arrival DLC? - is just a minor example), that it seems
reasonable to re-write the endings.
 
Besides, we were promised
that the endings will be affected by all our actions and decisions in
Mass Effect universe, which, obviously, is the false statement.

Many
of us fans want to have a "happy" ending. Let our Shepards to reunite
with his/her Love Interest and friends. The epic saga is not doomed to
be the dark one.

And the last point. You should consider our
movement and our demand not as the threat, but as the opportunity to
regain the trust you've lost. You have a chance not only to return your
loyal fans back, but to make the Mass Effect 3 even more profitable for
BioWare and EA. The happy fan is the good customer for upcoming DLC's,
and the disappointed fan is the lost customer for good.

I and a
lot of other members of #RetakeMassEffect movement ask you to listen to
us and hear our demands. Please, let our dreams come true. You know we
deserve it.


Sincerely,
Your fan and customer,
...

I like this

[Graywolf633]

VonVerrikan wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

First off good morning! 

All I want is for someone who uses the its art explanation ( without actually explaing anything) to explain to me:
-what was amazing about the ending and why/ how it made sense to them.
-why characters we're doing out of character things and they were ok with it.
- how their choices in the end mattered.
 And so on.

If someone can do that I'd greatly appreciate it. It's getting really bad that no one is willing to actually defend the ending with reasons other than" its art" or "you just don't/aren't smart enough to understand"

Oh trust me I can't agree more. People who are defending this game and it's endings are generally doing a pretty poor job of it. I have yet to see a decent explination for why it turned out so bad, and why we should accept it as is.

Agreed. I haven't seen a single post that can comprehensibly defend the ending. And I especially like the fact that, instead of defending it, supporters of the ending resort to calling us "entitled." We paid for the game, didn't we? So, in the end, we should get what we were told we'd get. No art-sy excuses. Just something that makes sense and gives us that feeling of closure and accomplishment.

[Sacred Of the Grey Wardens]

Flyprdu wrote...

VonVerrikan wrote...

It's not art. If it is? It's a commission.

Boom.  There it is.  9 simple words to summarize this entire movement... and the perfect rebuttal to those who scream "artistic integrity."

We paid BioWare for a self portrait.  You spent 5 days sitting in chair.. waiting patiently and building expectations, while BioWare works vigorously and tells you how awesome his painting is. 


When it comes time for the big reveal,  he turns the portrait around to show a beautifully detailed and colorful portrait of you
-- in a clown suit. 

*hides* Im scared of clowns.......

[the_secondhammer]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

...
Dear BioWare,

This mail is sent to you in support of #RetakeMassEffect movement.

*snip*

I like this

Brilliant!

[Bionic Weapon]

..

Modifié par Bionic Weapon, 26 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[cantido21]

checking in, still holding strong.

[Cybermortis]

Re; The 'Art' argument;

Anyone remember the 'DeLorean' sports car?

That was a beautiful car, 'art' to a degree and one that was heavily hyped at the time.

Remember what happened to the car AND the company that produced it? They went bust because while the car looked very nice it was full of serious 'bugs' and simply failed to deliver the performance and 'experience' that had been expected of it.

*Put's on Yoda mask*

Learn from the last you must, or re-live it you will....

[Ameno Xiel]

So...I finally came around and watched Archengeias videos till the end. (yes, I know - shame on me, work to do, places to be, people to see)

It was...devastating. I said before that my trust in Bioware is gone, now I feel as if it is broken beyond repair.

But maybe it is my own fault.  Please stay with me for a moment and go a few years back.

Baldur's Gate was my first video game ever.

I remember reading through the preample thinking "Hell yeah, those are people just like me."

And how far have they come over the years.

I lost a little faith as the Infinity Engine was "ended" but Neverwinter Nights was sooo good. Not perfect, but way better than I expected.

Followed by games I also enjoyed very much like KotOR (I don't even like SW that much) and Jade Empire.
The latter is one of the most underrated games I know btw.

Then came Mass Effect. And it blew my mind. It was like back when I was a kid, reading a good book you couldn't lay aside. You just had to know how it ended.

It also changed my opinion on Sci-Fi RPG's. Before ME I was more of a fantasy fan, after ME it was reversed.

So yeah, I didn't play Dragon Age... *jumps behind sofa as arrows starts to fly over his head* 

But I wanted to catch up on it later when I would be in the mood for it.

It wasn't that great of a surprise when ME2 came out and it was da bomb. 

My fanboyism of the ME-franchise was so great this time, that Dragon Age 2 was out and I didn't even notice. 

Bioware simply couldn't do wrong in my eyes.

TOR should have been the next big step.
A game you can play between all those awesome singleplayer games that Bioware will make in the future.
But sadly it was too little too late and it was my own damn fault for believing that there would be some kind of revolution in the genre just because Bioware made the game. Played WoW for years and the passion for this kind of game was simply gone.

Not their fault!

But I get off subject here.

Before ME3 came out my friend said "Don't get your hopes up to high or you will be disappointed."

I hate it so much when he is right. <_< 

Not the whole game per se. I didn't even notice much of the botched and disappointing things up till now. It was all buried under that big sword of Damocles called "The Endings".

When Archengeia said "The realization that the players care more about their game than the people who made it." (-> Indoc theory) I started to cry.

Not because of the endings.

Not because ME3 isn't all that what it was meant to be. 

Not because the whole franchise apparently jumped the shark.

But because it finally opened my eyes to "Yeah, this is it." This is what Bioware is today.
A once great video game developer that has passed his prime. 

And no, they can't redeem themselves with some DLC. Like I said before, too little too late.

I won't cry again. I will mourn them but that's it. Time will pass and this feeling of loss will go away with it.

Other game developers make great games too. (like the often mentioned CD Project  RED)

This is not "Game Over", this is "Game On" even without Bioware or Mass Effect.

To all those people that are still holding the line:

Don't let my last statements discourage you! I still support this cause! Not for changing the endings but for the ideal that stands behind it.

People from all over the globe come together here. Totally disregarding national barriers, age, countermovement  or time spend with this campaign.

People unite not against something they don't like but because they care about it. This is not destructive but actually the only thing that keeps hope alive that no matter what goes down, can be stopped as long as we at least try.

So...this post got longer than expected. I want to end it with a quote from George Orwell:

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."

Marauder Shields is in all of us. Let's do some Space Magic!

[chujwamdotego]

lijygr wrote...

Today is the March, 26th - which means the date of e-mail campaign.
Sent my e-mail couple of minutes ago.
Here is goes:

Good You reminded.

I'm gonna send them e-mail as well (3rd one already). I wonder if they end up in "trash" folder...

Modifié par chujwamdotego, 26 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[VonVerrikan]

ChuckieJ wrote...

Commissioned art is payed for before production begins. We merely paid a few months in advance (if at all in advance) of the release of a 3 year project. Therefore, not commissioned. EA commissioned Bioware to make the game and I imagine they are pretty happy with both the sales numbers and the controversy. It's likely the number of people buying the game to see what all the excitement is about outnumbers the people returning the game.

Wait two more weeks and we'll all find out what is going on.

Well only EA is supposed to act as nothing more than a middle man during the comission process. We tell them what we want drawn, they tell Bioware what we want, and we get our picture. Mass Effect has been a game that was focused very much on what fans want, not what EA wants. 

It's still comissioned art, and it's certainly not above them revising it for us. 

[Ole Shepard]

lijygr wrote...

Today is the March, 26th - which means the date of e-mail campaign.
Sent my e-mail couple of minutes ago.
Here is goes:





Dear BioWare,

This mail is sent to you in support of #RetakeMassEffect movement.

I
understand that most probably my mail will not get any attention of
BioWare personnel, and will go directly to the Junk Mail folder. But
there always is the hope, you know.

This is my second letter,
and I decided to send it because I guess that you still did not
understand what we, your loyal fans, are demanding. I'm afraid that
there is the possibility, that you gonna miss the point second - and the
last - time, and make your loyal fans even more disappointed.

Based
on the Ray Muzyka statement and responses of BioWare personnel in Mass
Effect Twitter, it seems that all what you gonna provide to the fans is
some "clarification" and "closure".

Here is the problem. If you
would look into the BioWare Social Network forums postings, you would
find that the overwhelming majority of fans are not happy with the
Red-Green-Blue Explosion ending. They demand to get rid of RGB Explosion
ending completely. In other words, "clarification" is not enough.

We
do appreciate your artistic integrity and your vision, but we - as the
fans and the customers - want the endings to be completely different.
The existing endings contains so many plot holes (the
"supernova"-lization of the Galaxy due to Mass Effect Relay destruction -
remember the Arrival DLC? - is just a minor example), that it seems
reasonable to re-write the endings.
 
Besides, we were promised
that the endings will be affected by all our actions and decisions in
Mass Effect universe, which, obviously, is the false statement.

Many
of us fans want to have a "happy" ending. Let our Shepards to reunite
with his/her Love Interest and friends. The epic saga is not doomed to
be the dark one.

And the last point. You should consider our
movement and our demand not as the threat, but as the opportunity to
regain the trust you've lost. You have a chance not only to return your
loyal fans back, but to make the Mass Effect 3 even more profitable for
BioWare and EA. The happy fan is the good customer for upcoming DLC's,
and the disappointed fan is the lost customer for good.

I and a
lot of other members of #RetakeMassEffect movement ask you to listen to
us and hear our demands. Please, let our dreams come true. You know we
deserve it.


Sincerely,
Your fan and customer,
...

/Approved

[Spartas Husky]

where to send the email I got some time free?

[SassyJazRzmataz]

Been out of town this past weekend. I assume nothing new has happened?

[RussianOrc]

Every time i look at the ME3 icon on my desktop i can't understando how bioware managed to mess thing up so bad, when the game was released i was aslready planing to do at least 4 playthroughs with all my imported characters, and now the only thing a feel when i think about ME is sadness.
The ending of Mass Effect 2 brought tears to my eyes, it was so well done and satisfying and now this.......................
Why bioware!?

[Bob3terd]

SassyJazRzmataz wrote...

Been out of town this past weekend. I assume nothing new has happened?

Not really just waiting for pax its very much a case of quiet before the storm me thinks

[Darth Garrus]

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

[Phoenix NL]

RussianOrc wrote...

Every time i look at the ME3 icon on my desktop i can't understando how bioware managed to mess thing up so bad, when the game was released i was aslready planing to do at least 4 playthroughs with all my imported characters, and now the only thing a feel when i think about ME is sadness.
The ending of Mass Effect 2 brought tears to my eyes, it was so well done and satisfying and now this.......................
Why bioware!?

Let's keep faith until at least PAX and see what they say. I just can't bring myself to believe that a company that produced such an otherwise beautiful game would fall flat on their face moments from the end. I may be proven wrong but for now the small snippets and hints we get from their guys seem to suggest that something is coming. It is hard to keep that faith in them though!

[Gi-Joe-Ge]

Bob3terd wrote...
Not really just waiting for pax its very much a case of quiet before the storm me thinks

Exactly this. If BioWare don't deliver what the majority of their customers is asking for (and what they actually promised to be delivering) the hell will break lose in this forum, before most would abandon Bioware and their future products in a 2nd stage.

[Bionic Weapon]

[quote]mulder1199 wrote...
[quote]Bionic Weapon wrote...
[quote]VonVerrikan wrote...

First off good morning! 
All I want is for someone who uses the its art explanation ( without actually explaing anything) to explain to me:-what was amazing about the ending and why/ how it made sense to them.-why characters we're doing out of character things and they were ok with it.- how their choices in the end mattered. And so on.
If someone can do that I'd greatly appreciate it. It's getting really bad that no one is willing to actually defend the ending with reasons other than" its art" or "you just don't/aren't smart enough to understand"
[/quote]
that's the thing bionic, the 'pundits' and 'experts' are referring to the ending only. and the entire work, they dont' (or haven't) give a crap about all the issues at the end. they have heard that it's unsatisying and are only arguing for a certain part
apparently Mass Effect :deception, isn't art....[/quote]



See that's the issue I have. Look at the whole picture. Everything was fantastic throughout the game.the long road was coming to and end then  a massive earthquake came to rip it apart at the final moments. How can you sit there and say " oh that's bold" "that's daring"  "that's art" when everything you had done simply just vanished?

It's like they didn't even care, or didn't pay attention to what they were doing in their own game. 
But when we do it and point out things that were just so obvious and didn't make sense or add up we are whiners and the like. Well call us what you will but at least we are making our voices heard because we actually care about the game and want to see it get the praise it deserves by allowing us to close this series in a way that is satisfying.
If they are satisfied with out of character actions and potholes and over all space magic. Then I guess the whole it's art argument fits then.
For the rest of us though we know what our developer is capable of and want to see them succeed. If only these naysayers could see that.

Modifié par Bionic Weapon, 26 mars 2012 - 07:15 .

[TamiBx]

Darth Suetam wrote...

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

What are you talking about? Space Magic  is art! 

http://mitglied.mult...Mot_tia_me3.jpg

[Jere85]

Mind if i use part of that letter? ive been writing so much my fingers hurt