101103 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Darth Suetam wrote...

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

 

^ Exactly  

[TheSimbul]

I've been thinking about PAX and the impending statement by Bioware and suddenly I was overcome by this (irrational) fear that if people attending decide to act violently/unreasonably etc not only will the movement's image suffer greatly but Bioware might take the chance to come here and be all :"Given the recent events at PAX we feel this thread will only serve to spur the violence and other unacceptable behavior toward's our employees. Therefore this thread is now locked"

I wonder if any Retake ME3 haters might be tempted to act this way just to make us all look bad...seeing the hate floating around on the www it doesn't seem that unlikely.

In any case what I meant to say was that we should make it very clear here that we do and will not support any kind of aggressive or disrespectful behavior when dealing with Bioware ppl. It might not do much to deter those who wan't blood but at least we will be able to demonstrate that as a whole, we are a peaceful, respectful movement

[SassyJazRzmataz]

Darth Suetam wrote...

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

This^ I know from first hand experience with my prop commissions. I hate the artistic intregrity argument so much.

[Mazandus]

A thing is not art if the artist cares less about it than does his/her patron. When that occurs, it is purely a commercial transaction, and any attempt by the "artiste" to dissuade criticism is only done to salvage any possible future transactions.

[RussianOrc]

Phoenix NL wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

Every time i look at the ME3 icon on my desktop i can't understando how bioware managed to mess thing up so bad, when the game was released i was aslready planing to do at least 4 playthroughs with all my imported characters, and now the only thing a feel when i think about ME is sadness.
The ending of Mass Effect 2 brought tears to my eyes, it was so well done and satisfying and now this.......................
Why bioware!?

Let's keep faith until at least PAX and see what they say. I just can't bring myself to believe that a company that produced such an otherwise beautiful game would fall flat on their face moments from the end. I may be proven wrong but for now the small snippets and hints we get from their guys seem to suggest that something is coming. It is hard to keep that faith in them though!

May i ask you when is pax?I know its april, just don't know which day.

[Darth Garrus]

TamiBx wrote...

What are you talking about? Space Magic  is art! 

http://mitglied.mult...Mot_tia_me3.jpg

Hehehehehe quite true. I feel invigorated already.

I wish...

[Phoenix NL]

Oh no the 4Chan stuff is being reported on now -
http://www.ibtimes.c...ak-spoilers.htm

[MasterDracoStoc]

I'm confused why video game supporters and developers still fuss over being called "art". As a culture and industry video games have moved farther than any other entertainment medium. The individual parts of a video game are art, but the overall experience is better than art. IMHO video games are better than contemporary art and should therefore be examined differently.

[SassyJazRzmataz]

RussianOrc wrote...

May i ask you when is pax?I know its april, just don't know which day.

It's April 6-8

[silencemayday]

TamiBx wrote...
*snip*

What are you talking about? Space Magic  is art! 

http://mitglied.mult...Mot_tia_me3.jpg

i want to print this out and hang it up in our flat. this.. this is brilliant. 

[RussianOrc]

SassyJazRzmataz wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

May i ask you when is pax?I know its april, just don't know which day.

It's April 6-8

Thank you.

[Cybermortis]

Darth Suetam wrote...

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

In Westminster Abbey in London there is a painting of Queen Elizabeth Ist that dates from her reign - you'll probably have seen this painting as it is the classic image of her.

A few years ago Westminster started on a process of restoring all of the tombs, flooring and artifacts held in the Abbey. During this process they, naturally, investigated and studied the paining of Queen Elizabeth so they could figure out the best ways to preserve it.

In the process of studying the painting they discovered something totally unexpected - at some point someone had totally repainted the Queens face. Not touched up, not repaired but given the Queen a totally new face that looked nothing like the original.

Or in otherword's no one had any problem changing 'art' at a later date because the original wasn't considered 'good enough'. 

[DJBare]

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Hold the line!

[Atrocity]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Oh no the 4Chan stuff is being reported on now -
http://www.ibtimes.c...ak-spoilers.htm

Pfft, their funeral, since if online 'journalists' can't be bothered to check whether their 'news' is from 4chan, goodbye arguable credibility.

[PhoenixDove1]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Totally different thought - During the Eden Prime mission where you get Javik I brought along Kaidan, my VS, because I thought there'd be a bit of interesting dialogue. Now there was a brief conversation on the shuttle but am I alone in thinking that there should have been a moment included in that where they stop to remember how it all got started? I mean, Jenkins dies there and that's where you meet Ashley and get hit by the Prothean beacon. I know it's a minor point but I would have thought that they would have done a bit more than just a short couple of sentences on the shuttle?

I was really hoping for that.  Of course Kaidan was my LI so anything to get more conversations   But even if he wasn't, it would have been nice for nostalgias sake, it's where it all started as you said

[TamiBx]

 Since you guys liked that one so much...
http://img856.images...7/motiv2069.jpg

[nitefyre410]

MasterDracoStoc wrote...

I'm confused why video game supporters and developers still fuss over being called "art". As a culture and industry video games have moved farther than any other entertainment medium. The individual parts of a video game are art, but the overall experience is better than art. IMHO video games are better than contemporary art and should therefore be examined differently.

 

Two words... 

Inferioty Complex ... 

They feel like they are  not consider  an artist meduim by serious critics so they have become obsessed with trying to prove that - the problem is that they are never going to  gain the critics appecitence. Most Art did not become art until years later, not when some critic said  it was art.  

[firstarioch]

I'm torn. Whether to buy mass effect art book collectors edition.
the one which bioware made only 1500 copies. Spent all money on childs play but managed to get few pounds from my girlfriend. The album is sold out on bioware site. Guy wants 150 euro for shtinked wrapped. Its almost 2.5 the original pricev.but if idont get it now then when?
And I made pledge not buy bioware products tillcthe sort those endings out. Otherwise they loose me forever .
Tough call...
Don't know .....

[silencemayday]

TamiBx wrote...

 Since you guys liked that one so much...
http://img856.images...7/motiv2069.jpg

oh art.. :'D

[chujwamdotego]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Oh no the 4Chan stuff is being reported on now -
http://www.ibtimes.c...ak-spoilers.htm

To stop that kind of **** Bioware should make formal statement about what's to come in that DLC. Even vaguely, but just say "you'll get new endings" or "you'll not get new endings".

That crap about "clarification" is just fueling those rumours.

[Cybermortis]

firstarioch wrote...

I'm torn. Whether to buy mass effect art book collectors edition.
the one which bioware made only 1500 copies. Spent all money on childs play but managed to get few pounds from my girlfriend. The album is sold out on bioware site. Guy wants 150 euro for shtinked wrapped. Its almost 2.5 the original pricev.but if idont get it now then when?
And I made pledge not buy bioware products tillcthe sort those endings out. Otherwise they loose me forever .
Tough call...
Don't know .....

*Shrugs*

If it is a second hand copy you won't be giving money to Bioware, someone else has already done that.

[mulder1199]

[quote]Bionic Weapon wrote...


[quote]mulder1199 wrote...
[quote]Bionic Weapon wrote...
[quote]VonVerrikan wrote...

See that's the issue I have. Look at the whole picture. Everything was fantastic throughout the game.the long road was coming to and end then  a massive earthquake came to rip it apart at the final moments. How can you sit there and say " oh that's bold" "that's daring"  "that's art" when everything you had done simply just vanished?

AGREED!
i would agree with them, except for what you point out.....if they had ended correctly and we jsut didn't like it, i'd probably say 'boohoo suckers'...but for most if you take the end for just itself (no space magic issues/plotholes/why the hell would my crew be fleeing like a wee girl) i'd say 'wow, that sucks,  but at least i see why it had to happen (ie shep's death to save millions) and said gimme ME4 i wanna see how the universe turns out....

but that's not what happened, we got a bitter end THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!! 

Modifié par mulder1199, 26 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Darth Garrus]

Cybermortis wrote...

Darth Suetam wrote...

This "art" argument is a fraud of the worst kind. It's perpetrated by ignorant people, who know nothing about art. It's almost comical, but it touches an important subject for us.

Who do they think produced art? Rich kids, who painted "Giocondas" on their break from continuous r&r?

Artists were payed by rich patrons, and almost all famous works of art were commissioned by some rich collector. From time to time people find drafts that were refused by the paying customer; other versions; and even layers of new paint over a refused previous one, in the case of very poor artists, who could not even pay for new canvas.

Probably 99% of famous past masterpieces in famous museums today were payed requests, and had sketches, first drafts, refused versions, and then the final piece. And today some ignorant guy comes and says that "you don't change or question art"???

This is nonsense of the worst kind!!! Nothing to do with art or art history!!!

In Westminster Abbey in London there is a painting of Queen Elizabeth Ist that dates from her reign - you'll probably have seen this painting as it is the classic image of her.

A few years ago Westminster started on a process of restoring all of the tombs, flooring and artifacts held in the Abbey. During this process they, naturally, investigated and studied the paining of Queen Elizabeth so they could figure out the best ways to preserve it.

In the process of studying the painting they discovered something totally unexpected - at some point someone had totally repainted the Queens face. Not touched up, not repaired but given the Queen a totally new face that looked nothing like the original.

Or in otherword's no one had any problem changing 'art' at a later date because the original wasn't considered 'good enough'. 

Exactly!!! Great example!

And this happens all the time. Not a year goes by without something like that being discovered in famous artwork. The "art argument" coming from art ignorant people is just ridiculous. They are recreating art history as they see fit. What are they thinking when they say that art can't be adjusted???

And in the end, is all that is being asked for: adjustment!

[Graywolf633]

firstarioch wrote...

I'm torn. Whether to buy mass effect art book collectors edition.
the one which bioware made only 1500 copies. Spent all money on childs play but managed to get few pounds from my girlfriend. The album is sold out on bioware site. Guy wants 150 euro for shtinked wrapped. Its almost 2.5 the original pricev.but if idont get it now then when?
And I made pledge not buy bioware products tillcthe sort those endings out. Otherwise they loose me forever .
Tough call...
Don't know .....

You mean the book that came with the collector's edition, right? If so, I wouldn't call it a must-have....

[TSC_1]

This is the e-mail I just sent Bioware:

Dear Bioware,

Like many Mass Effect 3 fans, I am deeply disappointed in the endings of the game. I was, however, heartened by Dr. Muzyka’s statement on 21 March stating that fans’ problems with the endings will be dealt with by Bioware. I’m writing, though, because I do still have certain concerns about what Dr. Muzyka said.

To be blunt, the wording of Dr. Muzyka’s statement is very vague; I’m sure that was intentional. I’m mostly concerned with the fact that it appears Bioware may be considering releasing additional content that attempts to explain or expand upon the current endings. I’m writing to tell you that I, and most people in the #RetakeME3 movement, would not find this to be acceptable. A recent poll on BSN (http://social.biowar...55/polls/30216/) shows that 89% of respondents would not be satisfied with anything less than the addition of completely new endings.

Our complaint isn’t that we don’t understand the current endings – we understand them just fine. Our complaint is that those endings are dreadful and do not live up to the high standards set by the rest of the Mass Effect series. We are not looking for explanations, closure, or clarity. We do not want the current endings justified; we want new endings.

We want new endings free from plot holes, free from Starchildren, and free from logical contradictions. We want new endings that provide actual closure to the choices we have made and to the relationships we have formed throughout the trilogy. We want new endings that allow our Shepards to live and reunite with their friends and love interests. We want new endings where our Shepards fail to save the galaxy. We want new endings that leave the mass relays intact. Above all, we want new endings that make our choices matter.

And, personally, I do want a happy ending. Or at least a happier one. I see no shame in that. I want my Shepard to save the galaxy, to live, and to be reunited with his love interest. In a galaxy where the mass relays still exist. To be frank, I want everything following the death of Anderson to be removed from the game – the Starchild, Shepard’s death, the destruction of the mass relays, the marooning of the Normandy, and the Stargazer scene – all of it needs to go.

The point about the mass relays is very important – they must continue to exist and function in at least one ending of the game. And their continued existence must be made canon. Without them, the Mass Effect universe ceases to be. Which is why any future games in the Mass Effect universe must take the mass relays continuing to exist as a given: any game that does not will not only discard the new endings to Mass Effect 3 in favour of the original ones (something gamers are frankly not going to care for at all), it will also simply not be set in the Mass Effect universe that we have all grown to love. The mass relays are essential to the Mass Effect universe. Don’t force us to do away with them at the end of Mass Effect 3, and don’t do away with them in any future game. It would drive the Mass Effect IP into the ground as badly as removing warp drive from Star Trek would drive that IP into the ground. Take it from me – this would be a disaster for you.

Finally, I understand that there are people who do enjoy the current endings. I don’t want to disappoint them, and I don’t want to put Bioware in the position of doing so, either. So why not ask the player at the start of a new game if they want to see the original endings, or the new ones? That way, I never need to see anything that currently exists following Anderson’s death, and people who like the original endings never need to see anything new. So long as future games in the Mass Effect series don’t take the original endings as canon, and so long as future games take the continued existence of the mass relays as canon, this seems to be the best compromise. I don’t want to take away anyone else’s enjoyment in trying to restore my own.

I trust that Bioware will listen to what its customers are saying; I trust that Bioware will get this right.

Remember, folks! Today's the day to e-mail contact@bioware.com about what you want and do not want in any ending DLC that they release!