101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Mattalix]

DaftArbiter wrote...

I agreed wholeheartedly, Bioware honestly need to just rewrite the entire end section, and they also need to rewrite their book of morals, why release a game if its not entirely done, everyone can see the end was rushed, many bioware game endings were rushed and it was noticeable (looking at you KOTOR 2). Hows about you actually finish the game Properly before releasing, rather than set a release date and sticking to it ridgidly why not give a release estimate? 

[TSC_1]

Mattalix wrote...
Hows about you actually finish the game Properly before releasing, rather than set a release date and sticking to it ridgidly why not give a release estimate? 

That might be the big lesson EA learns from all of this. I'd bet they were pushing Bioware to release, especially after the first delay. And I'd bet, in the future, EA is a little more careful about applying that sort of pressure to their developers.

[Darth Garrus]

Mattalix wrote...

DaftArbiter wrote...

I agreed wholeheartedly, Bioware honestly need to just rewrite the entire end section, and they also need to rewrite their book of morals, why release a game if its not entirely done, everyone can see the end was rushed, many bioware game endings were rushed and it was noticeable (looking at you KOTOR 2). Hows about you actually finish the game Properly before releasing, rather than set a release date and sticking to it ridgidly why not give a release estimate? 

Be careful. Kotor 2 is not from BW. Why ME3 was released as we got it is unknown. Let's not jump to conclusions. I may think that it was rushed, and they had to get to a quick ending. But who knows if it was not them thinking "this is a good idea" (not!). Let's not say we are not completely sure.

[Darth_Acheron47]

I remember being really irritated when I first heard they were targeting November 2011 for release, and then it got pushed back to March 2012. If they would have delayed release again so there was more time to polish the game as a whole, and provide an ending that actually fit with the rest of the series, I think I would have been far less irritated than I am now. (Granted, I would have raged about the release date being pushed back, but at least it wouldn't have been this crushing disappointment.)

[Cybermortis]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

On a side-note, does anyone else find it odd that the US release date of the game was 3/6 and PAX is on 4/6? Or am I drinking the conspiracy kool-aid again?

Taking things a little bit too far, although there probably is a connection.

It seems that companies usually bring out the first DLC a month after release, and talk about what other DLC they have planned (at least in vague terms).This is just long enough for the original players to have finished the game and hopefully be hungry for more, its also around the same time that you should start to see the effects of word-of-mouth sales.

[infinitekilan]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

I remember being really irritated when I first heard they were targeting November 2011 for release, and then it got pushed back to March 2012. If they would have delayed release again so there was more time to polish the game as a whole, and provide an ending that actually fit with the rest of the series, I think I would have been far less irritated than I am now. (Granted, I would have raged about the release date being pushed back, but at least it wouldn't have been this crushing disappointment.)

This.

Delays, like insurance, are a necessary evil. At the time they are announced(i.e. your insurance bill arrives), they suuuuuuuuuuuuck. But once the release date finally arrives(or when your car gets fixed), it's totally worth it.

[Cybermortis]

Mattalix wrote...

 many bioware game endings were rushed and it was noticeable (looking at you KOTOR 2). 

Knights of the Old Republic; The Sith Lords was developed by Obsidian, not Bioware.

Bioware did the first KOTOR game.

[Darth_Acheron47]

Cybermortis wrote...

Taking things a little bit too far, although there probably is a connection.

It seems that companies usually bring out the first DLC a month after release, and talk about what other DLC they have planned (at least in vague terms).This is just long enough for the original players to have finished the game and hopefully be hungry for more, its also around the same time that you should start to see the effects of word-of-mouth sales.

Ah. Okay, good to know. Mass Effect is the first series I've ever gotten DLC for, so I'm still new to the whole "additional content" thing. Thanks for the info!

I'll go back to coffee now.

[ld1449]

Cybermortis wrote...

Knights of the Old Republic; The Sith Lords was developed by Obsidian, not Bioware.

Bioware did the first KOTOR game.

Ahh Obsidian. Ruining well established Game universes one platform at a time.

[silencemayday]

so. i realized that today would have been one of the days where i really could've used a few hours of mass effect. now i just feel really depressed and keep f5ing this board, without even being in the mood to contribute even anything.

wow, this really sucks.

[Aedera]

I just find it a funny coincidence that EA's fiscal year end is March 31. Hmmmm would a company rush a product even if it was not 100% done (endings, tali's picture, quest journal, etc) in order to make the year end? Maybe, maybe not. But the timing is fishy. Don't get me wrong, they NAILED some aspects of ME3 but clearly missed the boat with the ending.

An ending is like a joke...if you have to explain it, it didn't work.

I didn't spend $80 to use my imagination on an ending. There is no way I can conjur up a character like Garrus or Thane or Miranda. I don't want to make up what happens. I wanted to see it play out in high definition. I am hopeful we still get that chance.

Bioware is getting something that not many company's get after a mistake...a second chance . Dont explain the endings..make new ones or you will lose fans...and our dollars.

[Bionic Weapon]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

I remember being really irritated when I first heard they were targeting November 2011 for release, and then it got pushed back to March 2012. If they would have delayed release again so there was more time to polish the game as a whole, and provide an ending that actually fit with the rest of the series, I think I would have been far less irritated than I am now. (Granted, I would have raged about the release date being pushed back, but at least it wouldn't have been this crushing disappointment.)

I agree. I always wished that  sometimes Bioware would develop a Rockstar mentality where they say the game will be out when its done. They're doing it for Max Payne 3 and I'm sure theyll do it for GTA 5.

Sure the game (ME3) would of been delayed longer than we wanted it to, but at least then it would get the attention it needs and deserves. That's why I'll never understand why some publishers try to put out unfinished products, if the game needs attention then give the developers time to give it the proper attention it needs. Simple as that. In my opinion quality is way more important than trying to reach some fiscal year numbers or whatever they were trying to do. Yes we as gamers are sometimes impatient and want things wen we want them, but we can also hold the line so to speak and wait it out, and see that in the end the delay was worth it and we have before us a amazing FINISHED game.

Here's hoping it does get fixed though and we don't  get some "Didn't even try" sort of ending as  that would really suck, and make matters a whole lot worse.

Modifié par Bionic Weapon, 29 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[Darth_Acheron47]

silencemayday wrote...

so. i realized that today would have been one of the days where i really could've used a few hours of mass effect. now i just feel really depressed and keep f5ing this board, without even being in the mood to contribute even anything.

wow, this really sucks.

Right there with you. I tried to play Infamous on the PlayStation the other day, and just couldn't get into it. The second someone said "Reapers" (the name of one of the gangs in the game for those who haven't played it), I was just like, "That's it, I'm done." Turned it off and ended up watching Jeopardy instead.

[Rdubs]

TSC_1 wrote...

Rdubs wrote...

Trust me, the next formal word you will hear related to the endings is going to be a reiteration of how the new content will "clarify" the endings, which is code for fill in the plot holes they didn't notice until fans did.  Admitting the endings sucked balls will never happen due to this thing in management called "hubris."

I hope not. It would mean the end of Bioware.

TSC my friend, I hope that you are right in ways you cannot imagine.  But everything I've seen says that the "let's just use our gut and common sense and take the long view" has been replaced by very simply, "what do the numbers we put into Microsoft Excel tell us?"  For example, I'm sure some people at bioware brought up in a meeting "if we co-develop in advance an important squad mate for the sole purpose of selling as DLC, won't that ****** off our fan base?".  However, people on the other side of the table asked in response, "Maybe so, but will they buy it?"  If even ten persons bought it, when you plug that number into Excel your P&L is $100 better off than it is in the "pissed off fan" scenario.  So guess what, all of a sudden we have lore-critical Day 1 DLC.  And sadly it usually takes either a bankruptcy (or some other change in equity holders) for quant-over-common-sense managers to be flushed out of the system.

This current situation reminds me a LOT of Schlitz Beer, which is a business school case study in what happens when you mess with a successful formula trying to squeeze more out of it.  Basically management decided it could replace some ingredients with cheaper ones and the customers would never know the difference.  That was true on a case by case basis, but the tiny reductions in quality finally added up and one day customers all said, hey wait a minute Schlitz Beer takes like sh*t.  They tried all kinds of gimmicks and marketing to boost sales but at the end of the day it had lost its good taste and by the time they fixed it, too much damage had been done and it went belly up.

http://www.beerconno...fall-of-schlitz

[Cybermortis]

ld1449 wrote...

Ahh Obsidian. Ruining well established Game universes one platform at a time.

In fairness to Obsidian the rushed nature of KOTOR2 wasn't their fault. The release date was brought forward when they were only half-way or so through, so they had to scramble to get anything consistent done - one planet and at least one character had to be dropped outright and other storylines either dropped entirely or compacted. We know about the cut content because Obsidian deliberatly left it on the game disk for modders to discover, and hopefully restore.

All in all I think they did a rather good job on KOTOR2 all things considered. Sure, the ending was somewhat flat...but it made sense and wasn't out of place.

[Darth_Acheron47]

Aedera wrote...

I just find it a funny coincidence that EA's fiscal year end is March 31. Hmmmm would a company rush a product even if it was not 100% done (endings, tali's picture, quest journal, etc) in order to make the year end? Maybe, maybe not. But the timing is fishy. Don't get me wrong, they NAILED some aspects of ME3 but clearly missed the boat with the ending.

An ending is like a joke...if you have to explain it, it didn't work.

I didn't spend $80 to use my imagination on an ending. There is no way I can conjur up a character like Garrus or Thane or Miranda. I don't want to make up what happens. I wanted to see it play out in high definition. I am hopeful we still get that chance.

Bioware is getting something that not many company's get after a mistake...a second chance . Dont explain the endings..make new ones or you will lose fans...and our dollars.

This. "Explaining" or "clarifying" the ending isn't good enough. If the only solution is to sit the fans down and tell them WHY this ending is clever and artistic, which strikes me as incredibly condescending, I'm afraid I'm going to have to walk away from BioWare and EA for good. Which is something I really don't want to do because I've enjoyed so many of their games in the past.

[Darth_Acheron47]

Cybermortis wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

Ahh Obsidian. Ruining well established Game universes one platform at a time.

In fairness to Obsidian the rushed nature of KOTOR2 wasn't their fault. The release date was brought forward when they were only half-way or so through, so they had to scramble to get anything consistent done - one planet and at least one character had to be dropped outright and other storylines either dropped entirely or compacted. We know about the cut content because Obsidian deliberatly left it on the game disk for modders to discover, and hopefully restore.

All in all I think they did a rather good job on KOTOR2 all things considered. Sure, the ending was somewhat flat...but it made sense and wasn't out of place.

I found the ending of KOTOR 2 a little abrput, but I didn't have too many issues with it. I was totally confused for a bit - hey, wait, where is the Ebon Hawk going? But when I figured it out, it was like, oh, okay. That makes sense.

More importantly, I thought they were leaving it open-ended so there could be another game. I seriously thought SWTOR was going to be KOTOR 3, and was disappointed when it wasn't but I feel like there could still be another one one day.

We know that's not the case with ME3. Maybe it's not the last in the ME universe, but it's the last of the trilogy and the "final story" for Shepard. So there should be some form of resolution.

[supremo0]

I can't help but feel a massive opportunity to troll the fan base at first, but then to give them what they want was missed.

[Ohpus]

ld1449 wrote...

To be honest, that tweet "Endings don't make sense...yet" leaves me with mixed feelings.

That's confirmation that they're working on SOMETHING whether that something will be good or bad has yet to be seen so it leaves me tenuously hopeful.

Then I immagine "What if they just plan to "flesh out" the ending?" Like add some cutscenes some more explanation ect. ect. That would probably just ****** me off so it leaves me feeling angry/wary.

And then of course it could also mean that these "endings" are just a 'root' to a tree of alternative endings that change based on the three choices so I'm back to feeling optimistic.



This wait for Pax is irritating

If it is the last option then the devs and PR people need to be dipped in boiling oil. Okay, maybe just hot enough to be uncomfortable oil.

The whole game feels like an incomplete product. I would be less than happy, but not upset, had they got it right and it felt this hollow. But likely that would mean just filling it up later with DLC. That's a double-edged thing because it could also feel to the consumer that they never intended to give us a complete game so they could sell it in pieces (AKA: From Ashes).

Based on a known history I would say their wicked step-mother (EA) is to blame.

[LethesDeep]

ld1449 wrote...
Ahh Obsidian. Ruining well established Game universes one platform at a time.

Hey, it was a great game once you got the Restored Content Mod. Before that it was a decent game with a **** ending due to executive meddling (kinda like a certain recent game we've all played)

[Elanor]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

Aedera wrote...

I just find it a funny coincidence that EA's fiscal year end is March 31. Hmmmm would a company rush a product even if it was not 100% done (endings, tali's picture, quest journal, etc) in order to make the year end? Maybe, maybe not. But the timing is fishy. Don't get me wrong, they NAILED some aspects of ME3 but clearly missed the boat with the ending.

An ending is like a joke...if you have to explain it, it didn't work.

I didn't spend $80 to use my imagination on an ending. There is no way I can conjur up a character like Garrus or Thane or Miranda. I don't want to make up what happens. I wanted to see it play out in high definition. I am hopeful we still get that chance.

Bioware is getting something that not many company's get after a mistake...a second chance . Dont explain the endings..make new ones or you will lose fans...and our dollars.

This. "Explaining" or "clarifying" the ending isn't good enough. If the only solution is to sit the fans down and tell them WHY this ending is clever and artistic, which strikes me as incredibly condescending, I'm afraid I'm going to have to walk away from BioWare and EA for good. Which is something I really don't want to do because I've enjoyed so many of their games in the past.

I agree, definitely it's not good enough. Propably even if they claryfy this something what they did with ending, I won't be able to play this game again.
Maybe I'm whining, but well... today is my whining day.

Still I'm holding the line.

[Bubi7]

Aedera wrote...
I just find it a funny coincidence that EA's fiscal year end is March 31. Hmmmm would a company rush a product even if it was not 100% done (endings, tali's picture, quest journal, etc) in order to make the year end? Maybe, maybe not. But the timing is fishy. Don't get me wrong, they NAILED some aspects of ME3 but clearly missed the boat with the ending.

Push out as much as you can before the end of the year is pretty common, so it makes perfect sense for me. These additional 3 weeks would have made no real difference.

[18 Brains]

-Kysi- wrote...

DJBare wrote...

This just posted s019.radikal.ru/i616/1203/fd/5c214a1b5df9.jpg in this thread social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10750224/53

I still have to laugh at the vagueness.

Am I the only one who gets a veeeeery bad feeling after seeing this?

Personally, I don't think that the ending can be explained. I don't even want it to be explained...

Found this posted on the forum a little while ago.  How people might feel if they go with the Indoctrination Theory as the canon.

[Ohpus]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...
On a side-note, does anyone else find it odd that the US release date of the game was 3/6 and PAX is on 4/6? Or am I drinking the conspiracy kool-aid again?

What color Kool-Aid?

[Katsumi Liqueur]

LethesDeep wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Ahh Obsidian. Ruining well established Game universes one platform at a time.

Hey, it was a great game once you got the Restored Content Mod. Before that it was a decent game with a **** ending due to executive meddling (kinda like a certain recent game we've all played)

What is this Restored Content Mod?