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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#65201
Cybermortis

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LethesDeep wrote...

No need to be so confrontational.

As for point 1: How else are they going to "clarify" or "explain" the endings unless they release something that changes the endings? A lot of gamers don't expect to have to play a game - or multiple games - across different platforms to understand the ending to one of those games. So, BioWare has to add the "clarification and explanation" to ME3, however they can't explain the end at the start or middle, so they'd add whatever they are working on to the end. That's what I see their statement meaning.

Point 2: blog post from Dr. Muzyka I referenced is here Second paragrapgh, last sentence. And I quote: "The team and I have been thinking hard
about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players,
while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game."


I wasn't trying to be confrontaional. Apologies if my post was taken that way.

To address your points there;

1; As I noted, they could 'clarrify' the endings by simply getting up on stage and telling everyone what they mean - seriously...one of the writers is going to be at PAX after all...Or they could add in a few screens of text at the end to 'explain' what happened next.

Not that either would go down well I'll add, but they would still be doing what they said they would do....

Biowares statement didn't really commit them to tackling the issue one way or another. Certainly it doesn't specifically tie them into changing the ending through a DLC.

2; I wasn't aware of the above statement from the Dr. However I did note that while individuals might agree with the 'artistic' line, at the end of the day it is Bioware as a company that will make a decision as to what, if any, changes will be made and how extensive they will be. If the devs don't like that decision tough.

Might also be worth noting that the statement is, once again, ambigous. It doesn't eliminate the possibility of a new ending, but nor does it commit Bioware to making one. About the only thing that all of the current statements indicate is that they are aware of the 'issue'. None of them outline what course of action Bioware has or has not decided on, or restricted the options open to them - even the really REALLY bad ones.

In the circumstances such vague statements are only to be expected. From Bioware's point of view they'd like nothing more than to do as little as possible - or ideally nothing at all - because it will cost them money. (Unless you suspect this is a badly handled PR stunt and they have been working on an ending DLC for a while). So they will and probably have been stalling for time while they figure out the least expensive way to deal with the problem based on cost to make, time needed and sales figures.

The problem is that we are reading too much into a lot of what has and has not been said over the last three weeks, and seem to be starting with the assumption that whatever is said is a lie. This is understandable, considering that they have (apparently) lied about the endings since day one as well as lying about the day one DLC being on the disk. While being critical is both understandable and very, very helpful in not being fooled again. It is easy to become TOO critical and read what we want or expect to in statements. If you can manage to find a balance however...well in the case of what Bioware has been saying we come back to...not a great deal.

#65202
Debi-Tage

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xHezz90 wrote...

Wow....guys, what's with the debbie downers? so what they gave up the cupcakes and were kind of snarky about it, but surely the fact they are being snarky means we are getting to them?

C'mon guys cheer up!


That made me go into diabetic shock it was so sweet....^_^

#65203
Computim

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Debi-Tage wrote...

Yeah - I work for the feds so...uh, I'm not even allowed to livestream pandora at work...let alone write a tweet insinuating anything about what it is we do, or will do, or wont do...hahaha!  *hugs*


Yeah, I'm in the IT department at my company.  I don't mind when people vent and stuff internally.. we do that all the time about some people.  I try to treat everyone we work with inside or outside the company as a client, if it weren't for everyone I work with -I- wouldn't have a job.  I'm only there to program the applications they use everyday and help out when stuff breaks.

I've snapped once at one of my coworkers after a long week of hearing them complain about something I'd told them repeatedly they needed to talk to their boss about.  I felt bad enough after it I went and apologized to them and I still remember it because I felt like a jerk and completely unprofessional over it.

I'm just looking for the same level of respect shown towards me during this.. yeah I'll joke around and probably act not all that professional sometimes.. I'm sure Bioware employees do the same... But when I make a serious complaint I'd like a serious response, same as they would... and I just feel that I'm getting ridicule, or worse, the company I've given my money to is trying to make a protest against me making that complaint.

As I said though, we need to send them a life sized Harbinger Reaper programmed with @HarbyTheReaper's personality.  Image IPB  Let's see them donate THAT to charity... and if they do I'm pretty sure it'd be considered accessory to genocide.

Modifié par Computim, 30 mars 2012 - 01:54 .


#65204
VivaLaWhatsername

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Debi-Tage wrote...

That made me go into diabetic shock it was so sweet....^_^


Haha sometimes you need sweet and sickly to cheer you up :lol:

#65205
toffeetrooper

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bed time for me

thanks for the link xHezz90 going to have stick people dreams now :)

keep the faith and hold the line

#65206
CirusTheVirus666

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8 More days till PAX! Hold that line people!

#65207
Geinen

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Debi-Tage wrote...

Yeah - I work for the feds so...uh, I'm not even allowed to livestream pandora at work...let alone write a tweet insinuating anything about what it is we do, or will do, or wont do...hahaha!  *hugs*


We can't even bring cell phones into the building, nevermind get on twitter...loool 

#65208
chmarr

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EPIC RAP BATTLE master chief vs leoidas

EPIC RAP BATTLE gandalf vs dumbldore


EDIT woops spelling mistake

Modifié par chmarr, 30 mars 2012 - 02:03 .


#65209
toffeetrooper

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chmarr wrote...

EPIC RAPE BATTLE



? you might want to fix your typo

#65210
PhoenixDove1

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So I don't know about anyone else, I have to admit there are too many pages in this thread for me to read all posts Image IPB  but I saw a topic discussion about in ME1 there's a journal entry that talks about Klencory and a volus that talks about light beings and that's supposed to have been the motivation for the starchild.  All I have to say is if that's true that'd be like saying in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, having those beams of light/spirits kill everyone who was looking is evidence that foretells that in the 4th Indian Jones there would be a ton of magic with the Crystul Skulls.  Sorry if that's confusing, in an online class and I have the professor talking in my ear Image IPB

Back on topic, I wish I could go to PAX, is it televised so I can watch it?

#65211
-PG-Skyre

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I like how some people keep saying the ending answered all questions and was perfect...just me, or do some people not pay attention? Not ripping on people that like the ending, but it is a bit hard not to notice the complete flaws in the ending, and the questions left unanswered.

#65212
cogsandcurls

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Shiyamirai wrote...

Major Swift wrote...

cogsandcurls wrote...

My god, I finally got round to watching the Retake Fan Testimonials. Since it's all voice I had music on in the background and once I hit the fan reactions to the ending From the Wreckage from ME1 started playing. I just burst into tears.

How on earth did this happen, guys :C Everything else in the series is so good, and then ;_;

I had "An End Once and For All" playing at the time i was watching that part, and i wish i had an answer for you :(

"Who want to Live Forever" was playing when I watched it too. I wish we all had answers to this.:crying:


Ouch. My condolences to you two, those songs are a pretty heavy combo with the Testimonials video.

You know, this might just be wishful thinking but the longer this goes on the more I think that Bioware has to have had some kind of plan. I mean there's no way, right? They wouldn't introduce so many nonsensical plot points in the last five minutes of the game! They wouldn't just not let Shepard argue in the final conversation. They know better than to do all this. They must have some kind of clever plan for all this that's just backfired horribly, right? Like they put into some fake-out ending and thought everybody would be incredibly impressed when the revealed whatever twist they're not saying at the moment, but they weren't prepared for everybody to immediately see the plot holes and get the pitchforks out. It's like right now I have to believe this rather than entertain the idea that they actually dropped the ball completely.

The thing is, if I DON'T cling to that thought then I feel horrible for doubting Bioware, who has never really steered me wrong prior to ME3. But I feel like I'm being made into a gullible fool if I believe it, too :/

#65213
Computim

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PhoenixDove1 wrote...

So I don't know about anyone else, I have to admit there are too many pages in this thread for me to read all posts Image IPB  but I saw a topic discussion about in ME1 there's a journal entry that talks about Klencory and a volus that talks about light beings and that's supposed to have been the motivation for the starchild.  All I have to say is if that's true that'd be like saying in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, having those beams of light/spirits kill everyone who was looking is evidence that foretells that in the 4th Indian Jones there would be a ton of magic with the Crystul Skulls.  Sorry if that's confusing, in an online class and I have the professor talking in my ear Image IPB

Back on topic, I wish I could go to PAX, is it televised so I can watch it?


Yup!  Some talk over it today.  I personally think they put it in there because they didn't know the endings they wanted yet OR they were just trying to put some creation myths out there to add some lore..

It seemed to me they were talking more about one of the predecessor races (like the Protheans).  It's not referring to the citadel kid since it refers to beings of light... unless there's more than one of that abomination ... oh no.... What if there's more than one citadel kid?! What if there's a citadel kid controlling the citadel kid?!  What if Citadel Kid is just that.. a kid?! What if Citadel Mom was going to call him for dinner and you jumped into the beam instead?!  *screams and runs off* Image IPB

#65214
Cybermortis

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Dilos01 wrote...

So it's been a few days since the last time I played ME3.  That weekend MP event seems interesting enough to get me playing again...wish I could say the same thing for the SP portion!  I'm starting to wonder if all this "holding the line" jazz is really worth it.  They've already turned down those cupcakes (an option I could do with personally), and the days counting down to some announcement is not easing this sinking feeling of dread.  Brace yourselves; this storm is about to get worse.  When it does, that'll be the day I close this account down and uninstall ME3 for good. 


Not much hope left at this point.  I was starting to like the ME universe too. Image IPB



Let me tell you something that might raise an eyebrow in surprise.

A few (ie, probably 30) pages back someone linked to an article that lists the 'power-players' in the gaming industry.

Retake is...number 40.

Seriously.

No I'm not kidding retake, and all those involved are considered the 40th most powerful 'group' in the gaming industry.

I'll let that sink in for a second or two :whistle:


OK, ready? No? Tough because I'm going to blow your mind some more.

Consider this, we have raised $80,000 for charity - and are STILL raising money for another charity. We raised over $1000 to buy cupcakes in 24 minutes. We have had our voices heard around the world in some of the best known publications around - from Forbes to the Wall Street Journal, through the BBC to the leading German Newspaper who's name I'm not even going to try and spell. We have caused a major games company to go into full defensive mode in a matter of days - so much so that they had to drag one of their co-founders out to issue a statement within a week. We have even managed to get that company talking about changing the ending of one of their games - or at least making comments that they might be considering doing so.

Any of these things would be impressive on their own, but we have managed to do all of them...and here comes the real kicker;

Retake has been in existance for less than one month.


Now do you feel more upbeat?

#65215
chmarr

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-PG-Skyre wrote...

I like how some people keep saying the ending answered all questions and was perfect...just me, or do some people not pay attention? Not ripping on people that like the ending, but it is a bit hard not to notice the complete flaws in the ending, and the questions left unanswered.



the people that say it answered everything havent played it from the start
ps3 users are in a major rut due to ME1 beloning to microsoft  which is why ME1 was never released on it even after all this time

so all the extras we xbox and pc owners have we know the full score, ps3 owners only get part of a score so they dont get it all

#65216
Azzclown

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machinima started one of their versus youtube about the ending,

#65217
Computim

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Cybermortis wrote...

Let me tell you something that might raise an eyebrow in surprise.

A few (ie, probably 30) pages back someone linked to an article that lists the 'power-players' in the gaming industry.

Retake is...number 40.

Seriously.

No I'm not kidding retake, and all those involved are considered the 40th most powerful 'group' in the gaming industry.

I'll let that sink in for a second or two :whistle:


OK, ready? No? Tough because I'm going to blow your mind some more.

Consider this, we have raised $80,000 for charity - and are STILL raising money for another charity. We raised over $1000 to buy cupcakes in 24 minutes. We have had our voices heard around the world in some of the best known publications around - from Forbes to the Wall Street Journal, through the BBC to the leading German Newspaper who's name I'm not even going to try and spell. We have caused a major games company to go into full defensive mode in a matter of days - so much so that they had to drag one of their co-founders out to issue a statement within a week. We have even managed to get that company talking about changing the ending of one of their games - or at least making comments that they might be considering doing so.

Any of these things would be impressive on their own, but we have managed to do all of them...and here comes the real kicker;

Retake has been in existance for less than one month.


Now do you feel more upbeat?


Even better.  Kotaku, our arch nemesis, was the one who admitted it hahaha.  Image IPB

#65218
Shiyamirai

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OK what are we hoping to happen at PAX? Besides probably a huge amount of people who can show up to show our displeasure at the endings; probably packing rotten fruit and shoes should they try to avoid questions and make an escape amongst chants, boos and hissssses..

#65219
Debi-Tage

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PhoenixDove1 wrote...

So I don't know about anyone else, I have to admit there are too many pages in this thread for me to read all posts Image IPB  but I saw a topic discussion about in ME1 there's a journal entry that talks about Klencory and a volus that talks about light beings and that's supposed to have been the motivation for the starchild.  All I have to say is if that's true that'd be like saying in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, having those beams of light/spirits kill everyone who was looking is evidence that foretells that in the 4th Indian Jones there would be a ton of magic with the Crystul Skulls.  Sorry if that's confusing, in an online class and I have the professor talking in my ear Image IPB

Back on topic, I wish I could go to PAX, is it televised so I can watch it?


Yeah, they are supposed to protect organic life from synthetic machine devils...by creating and commanding synthetic machine devils? I soooo confused!

Indy is my HERO btw!

#65220
LethesDeep

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Cybermortis wrote...

I wasn't trying to be confrontaional. Apologies if my post was taken that way.

To address your points there;

*snipped for the sake of brevity and threads free of the tyranny of text walls*


Yeah, I've been here since Day 2, so I know that BioWare hasn't set anything in stone yet, despite what the gaming "journalists" say. My original post (the first one you responded to) was mostly just a vehicle for pointing out that the "artistic integrity" argument a single person made (that other people then started parroting) was invalidated just by looking at BioWare's previous track record with changing their game post-release or allowing others to change their game. I am aware that BioWare is a company first and a group of artists second; I've even come up with ways they could minimize their financial costs and maintain their so-called "artistic integrity" while pleasing the fans, however I doubt they would follow a convoluted plan like mine.

Basically, it comes down to a misunderstanding between us on what the point of my original post was; you seemed to think I didn't understand that they were being ambiguous and hiding behind vaguely defined arguments to delay a business decision, while I was trying to dismantle one of those vague arguments. That's OK, we've managed to (hopefully) completely clear the air now.

#65221
TheFoxBlade

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-PG-Skyre wrote...

I like how some people keep saying the ending answered all questions and was perfect...just me, or do some people not pay attention? Not ripping on people that like the ending, but it is a bit hard not to notice the complete flaws in the ending, and the questions left unanswered.


I am completely dumbfounded by people that make that claim. The ending is, simply put, broken on a literary level. To claim that it was perfect is just tells me that those people just can't understand good literature, or literature, or just plain old story telling.

Bioware is so lucky that they work in a medium where they can actually do something about their end problems. If this was a book, a movie, or a play, man would they be screwed. 

#65222
PhoenixDove1

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Computim wrote...

PhoenixDove1 wrote...

snip


Yup!  Some talk over it today.  I personally think they put it in there because they didn't know the endings they wanted yet OR they were just trying to put some creation myths out there to add some lore..

It seemed to me they were talking more about one of the predecessor races (like the Protheans).  It's not referring to the citadel kid since it refers to beings of light... unless there's more than one of that abomination ... oh no.... What if there's more than one citadel kid?! What if there's a citadel kid controlling the citadel kid?!  What if Citadel Kid is just that.. a kid?! What if Citadel Mom was going to call him for dinner and you jumped into the beam instead?!  *screams and runs off* Image IPB


Oh God I hope not!  *starts banging head on computer desk*  IMO though I'm with you, I thought it was lore about ancient civilization(s).  It can be cool when they tie in lore with what you're doing, like the DLC prothean, but not in all cases!!  lol Image IPB

#65223
Neko Hibiki

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If Bioware screws this up then I am through with them and with EA too.

Please listen Bioware.

And don't screw this up.

Please don't screw up now.

Or you will never see another penny from me again and that's just a fact.

--- Nightgazer Starlight

Eagle Scout with Bronze Palm in the BSA when I was a teenager

#65224
VivaLaWhatsername

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chmarr wrote...


the people that say it answered everything havent played it from the start
ps3 users are in a major rut due to ME1 beloning to microsoft  which is why ME1 was never released on it even after all this time

so all the extras we xbox and pc owners have we know the full score, ps3 owners only get part of a score so they dont get it all


Just want to say that's not necessarily true. I am a PS3 gamer, but I bought ME1 for PC after a friend suggested it (I don't even like playing games on PC) I was hooked, I loved every minute of it. Now I'm not saying ALL PS3 users haven't played ME1 nor am I saying ALL of them have, but I am sure plenty of them have played ME1 whether because they bought it for PC or X-BOX.

What I'm trying to say is that, just because ME1 wasn't released on Playstation doesn't mean Playstation owners haven't gotten the full score.

#65225
PhoenixDove1

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Computim wrote...

Cybermortis wrote...

Let me tell you something that might raise an eyebrow in surprise.

A few (ie, probably 30) pages back someone linked to an article that lists the 'power-players' in the gaming industry.

Retake is...number 40.

Seriously.

No I'm not kidding retake, and all those involved are considered the 40th most powerful 'group' in the gaming industry.

I'll let that sink in for a second or two :whistle:


OK, ready? No? Tough because I'm going to blow your mind some more.

Consider this, we have raised $80,000 for charity - and are STILL raising money for another charity. We raised over $1000 to buy cupcakes in 24 minutes. We have had our voices heard around the world in some of the best known publications around - from Forbes to the Wall Street Journal, through the BBC to the leading German Newspaper who's name I'm not even going to try and spell. We have caused a major games company to go into full defensive mode in a matter of days - so much so that they had to drag one of their co-founders out to issue a statement within a week. We have even managed to get that company talking about changing the ending of one of their games - or at least making comments that they might be considering doing so.

Any of these things would be impressive on their own, but we have managed to do all of them...and here comes the real kicker;

Retake has been in existance for less than one month.


Now do you feel more upbeat?


Even better.  Kotaku, our arch nemesis, was the one who admitted it hahaha.  Image IPB


This makes me feel so happy right now Image IPB