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[DJBare]

Just watched that gameinformer video, one of the guys says the ending is perfect to lead into mmo, if that turns out to be Biowares reveal at PAX I reckon I'll be stepping off the line and taking my cash elsewhere.

[Fox544]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

How many will be holding the line after PAX?(Me!)BW/EA probably thinks we'll die off after PAX.

I'll still be here.BW is wrong if that is what they think. I believe PAX will only revitalize conversations because even if nothing concrete comes out, I am almost positive people will be reading into things that happened or were insinuated!

Same here. Seeing the ending of ME3 and playing through ME1 again really highlights what a failure ME3's ending was.

ME1's ending had me riveted. The final battle, the cinematics, the acting, the fake out. It was beautiful.

[VivaLaWhatsername]

N7_Sniper91 wrote...

xHezz90 wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

How many will be holding the line after PAX?(Me!)BW/EA probably thinks we'll die off after PAX.

I will be holding the line until they fix the ending.

Same here. I'm not leaving till we get new endings, not "clarification".

Yep same goes for most of us I think

[VivaLaWhatsername]

DJBare wrote...

Just watched that gameinformer video, one of the guys says the ending is perfect to lead into mmo, if that turns out to be Biowares reveal at PAX I reckon I'll be stepping off the line and taking my cash elsewhere.

Oh gosh I hope not, could you imagine the rage.

I hate MMO's 

[Debi-Tage]

DJBare wrote...

Just watched that gameinformer video, one of the guys says the ending is perfect to lead into mmo, if that turns out to be Biowares reveal at PAX I reckon I'll be stepping off the line and taking my cash elsewhere.

I will have to agree. I don't particularly like MMOs myself. If done right they can be okay. But ME is not ME without Shepard for me. Not to mention that I will be so mad they threw the franchise under the bus for some TOR ripoff that even if it was good I would likely go out of my way to avoid it.

[Ihatebadgames]

I really don't like the idea of my last ME being a ruined intro to a MMO.I don't play MMOs,online or multiplayer.Now we know why they went to thermal clips in ME2,so they can charge us a dollar for them in a MMO or multiplayer maps.

[DJBare]

Debi-Tage wrote...
I will have to agree. I don't particularly like MMOs myself. If done right they can be okay. But ME is not ME without Shepard for me. Not to mention that I will be so mad they threw the franchise under the bus for some TOR ripoff that even if it was good I would likely go out of my way to avoid it.

It's not that I've got anything against MMO's, it's just the idea the endings were created this way for a lead in to MMO.

[ld1449]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

How many will be holding the line after PAX?(Me!)BW/EA probably thinks we'll die off after PAX.

I'll still be here.BW is wrong if that is what they think. I believe PAX will only revitalize conversations because even if nothing concrete comes out, I am almost positive people will be reading into things that happened or were insinuated!

I agree and disagree. For many that I've heard from/seen so far, Pax
is the last, make it or break it, moment that Bioware has. If they
choose to ignore the ending completely then Mass effect (possibly along with Bioware's reputation, fanbase and prestige) dies a very quick and decisive death.

If they give a concrete, viable answer then Mass Effect remains on life support until we see the results of all of this (The DLC) for ourselves and judge if its good or not. If its not good, then its time to pack up because no real media outlet (the real ones like forbes and such) are going to cover Bioware screwing up a second time so colosally. (They'll probably believe that we are entitled gamers at that point) In which case Mass effect again dies along with bioware's reputation fanbase prestige and so on and so forth.

If they give vague answers and non commitals well at that point Mass Effect is officially in a coma until further notice (Until again we wait for the ultimate verdict) Because I'm sure alot of people are getting tired of chasing the proverbial carrot and at that point they'll be more than happy to either sell back their coppies or say "to hell with this" until they hear like six to eight months down the line wether they did or did not do the ending DLC At which point they might come back just as easilly as they might say "I don't even care anymore" and not get anything with the Bioware logo attatched to it ever again.

[LazarusMP]

xHezz90 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Just watched that gameinformer video, one of the guys says the ending is perfect to lead into mmo, if that turns out to be Biowares reveal at PAX I reckon I'll be stepping off the line and taking my cash elsewhere.

Oh gosh I hope not, could you imagine the rage.

I hate MMO's 

Same here and I have to say that my reaction would be the same as DJBare's unfortunately...

[CitizenSnips28]

saracen16 wrote...

bowery tuff wrote...

Only that Star Trek isn't Mass Effect, and Captain Kirk isn't Commander Shepard. Mass Effect never gave you an easy choice because you had consequences to fathom for each. Why can't you save both Ash and Kaidan? Why can't you save the Rachni Queen but send her to the Council so they can decide her fate? Why can't you keep the Collector Base from TIM and instead send it to the Alliance?

I doubt you can answer these questions because that was how Mass Effect was played out from the beginning.

I'd actually disagree to some extent. There are very Kirkish moments in ME from time to time. Basically the paragon or renegade options. Not ALL choices are hard in the game. You can bring peace to geth/quarians, save tali from exile without going against her wishes and revealing her fathers culpability, stop various crew members from fighting with each other without having to pick sides, etc.

[Debi-Tage]

Yeah - it is very tiring sitting here...waiting. I am also simply disgusted with the attention being paid to MP events - given that ME was not a MP game to begin with. Then we were flatout lied to and told ME3 would not be a MP. And now they have messed up the ending so bad they have alienated the majority of their fanbase...but "hey everyone MULTIPLAYER!!"

I actually semi-enjoyed MP, but not as a stand alone game and certainly not at the expense of more attention that could have been paid to the, ehem...ending!

I feel like they are trying to dump us! :/

[18 Brains]

I just thought about the whole Retake Mass Effect movement.  This movement (of which I am a proud supporting member of) consists of more than 50,000 individuals from all over the world.  More than 50,000 people, with their own ideas, beliefs, and lives to lead not only bought the game, but played until the end, coming to a single consensus ON THEIR OWN, and then organizing all over the world for the sole purpose of trying to get Bioware to make new endings that not only make sense, but do the series justice after all of the great writing and storytelling of the games up until that point.

I've never known 50,000 people as individuals, and probably never will.  But each person of this movement has their own story to tell, and feel betrayal towards Bioware for not giving them the chance to finish a game that they made their own, one of their stories in their lives in a way that gave voice to all of the choices that they had made in a game that supposedly offered closure to a great series; a series that they invested hundreds of hours into and took five years to complete.

After giving one of the greatest interactive RPG series of our time to the world, the ending(s) that was provided left nothing but frustration; a frustration that has led to the protest that we see now.  Ultimately, after all the promises that Bioware has given us over the last few months about the game and now attempt to defend the ending over the concept of "artistic integrity," they should realize that they should place regular integrity above this, and own up to those promises made.

After this breach of trust between the company and the consumer, I know now that I'll be a lot more careful in my purchases in the future.  Even this trust, however, can be rebuilt through Bioware's actions in the coming days, and how they treat those at PAX will be very telling of the direction they will be going in.  I can only hope that they can realize that the majority of not only the fanbase is upset, but a lot of less vocal consumers as well, and that dodging questions using PR will not win them back.

For the hope of these new endings to a game I want to love, I hold the line.

Modifié par 18 Brains, 31 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[VivaLaWhatsername]

Debi-Tage wrote...

I feel like they are trying to dump us! :/

Ha! It does actually feel like being dumped, I've been there often enough to know the feeling.

As sad as it is, it really is the same feelings you get when dumped <_<

[Ihatebadgames]

They're more like my Ex,wanting their cake and eat it to.They want their loyal preordering fans but they want the COD,WOW take our money every month newbies.Maybe they want the newbies a little more as there are more whales to be harpooned like farmville,oh they want those players also so make things easier.I wish BW would pick a type of game and make it.

[ld1449]

See its in moments like this that I wish I had a time machine. I could just jump forward a week, listen to the PAX news, jump back and know whether I need to buy a plane ticket and a flamethrower, or streamers and party hats.

[405thRazgriz]

I've found a remedy for all of us hurting from the endings of Mass Effect 3. I, like many of you, haven't felt like playing any games after I finished Mass Effect 3, let alone turn on my console (I'm primarily an Xbox 360 user). Battlefield 3 is fun and all, but it's getting old. With the new BF3 patch, I doubt I'll be on that game much anyways (fixed some stuff, messed up a LOT more).

Long story short, I was going through my old game library and everything was 'meh' for me.

So, I have this console in my house called a play...cube? Playbox? Ah, that's it, Playstation 3. I've had it for several years now and have four games for it: all three Uncharted games and FFXIII (which is terrible). Needless to say, it didn't take me long to go through my game library for this mostly unused console and decide none of the games really appealed to me in my current state of gaming depression.

However, I remember seeing previews for some game on the PSN called Journey. Up until this point, I never even bothered setting up a PSN account. However, I was desperate for some interactive entertainment and decided to see what the PSN could offer me since the XBLA marketplace is kind of stagnant.

I made my account, went to their marketplace and found the game. It cost $14.99, but that wasn't much of an issue. So, I bought Journey, downloaded it, and started it up.

What happened after that... I... words can't describe. This game -no, this piece of interactive art- somehow managed to evoke more emotions than Mass Effect was ever able to in the entire trilogy. Never before have I been so emotionally invested in a game, and the strangest part is this; there is absolutely NO dialogue, and the only bit of text in-game is the title screen. All you can do is move, jump, and sing to other players you may or not encounter (singing is probably not what you're thinking of).

The game should be boring -stupid even-, but it's not. It's a beautiful piece of art that elicited tears from me. I am, admittedly, an offensive and unemotional person, but this game just moved me in ways that Mass Effect never has. It's only 2 hours long -possibly shorter if you're quick-, but I think I've put more hours replaying this game than my one ME3 play through.

If you have a PS3 and don't have Journey, go to the PSN store and buy it. It's... I can't even explain it. It's an experience all its own. Personally, it is easily my favorite game ever made, and I don't even know why! It just... I can't...

And this brings me to Mass Effect 3. It infuriates me! Mass Effect 3 COULD have been as great as this 2 hour long indie game, it COULD have been an emotional ride that makes an unemotional ****** like me cry, but it wasn't! And this isn't because the writing throughout the majority of the game was bad, or that it wasn't well executed. The reason Mass Effect 3 fell flat on its face for me was because the endings loomed over the entire game. I knew going in about the endings, and it sucked. It truly sucked.

Journey made me realize, now more than ever, how much we were robbed of a great experience because of a non-sensible ending.

I know everything I said about the ending has been said several thousand times by now, but I'm a mostly quiet forum member who just wanted to vent what I've been thinking.

And man, does it feel good to vent.

[SkaldFish]

Richard 060 wrote...

Reading that GiantBomb article made me realise yet another irritating misconception that some folk have gotten into their heads:

This fallacious notion of a 'fan ownership mentality', where people have become so personally invested in the game experience that they develop a warped perspective, and thus feel that the game is, in a sense, 'theirs'. Hence the ending controversy - BioWare failed to give fans the ending 'they' wanted for 'their' game.

Except, of course, it's a crock of presumptuous pop psychology, and it demeans and insults the intelligence of fans and players of the series in general.

If I see a movie, and the otherwise-stellar plot is let down by shoddy writing at the dénouement, then I'm perfectly entitled to say so. Just because this is a video game, doesn't mean that any negative opinion about it simply comes from being a entitled obsessive.

It's a dangerous and precarious state of affairs when people can so easily write off dissenting viewpoints, simply by smearing critics as not being able to 'think straight', or lacking sufficient intelligence to grasp what's being discussed. Either that, or there's a great many rampant egos out there, all of the mindset that "they don't agree with me, so therefore they must be morons".

In either case, it's presumably a great deal easier than trying to understand the perspectives of others, and in response, either change one's stance or defend it. You know, like rational, logical people...

Well said!

[chmarr]

DJBare wrote...

Just watched that gameinformer video, one of the guys says the ending is perfect to lead into mmo, if that turns out to be Biowares reveal at PAX I reckon I'll be stepping off the line and taking my cash elsewhere.

more like walking away with our cash putting on a pair of nice sunglasses.........and a handheld remote for a thermonuclear device

[Ihatebadgames]

Here is a true story from my time listening to the diffrent forums I surf.I was on xbox live just after DA2(which also had a ?? ending)a person was complaining that DA:O had too much reading and did DA 2 have less if so he would try it.That is the person they're going for,less programing,less plot,less conversation choices,less money spent,less man hours=less game but more money for EA/BW.

[Debi-Tage]

Yes heaven forbid a game actually have a plot and require *gasp* reading for story enrichment!

I'm cranky and tired so going to bed. Hold the line and be good to each other, we will be one another's bon bons and sounding boards if it actually turns out we are being dumped. But we may also be celebratory drinking partners (who sing far too loudly after tying one on) if things go good...

*crosses fingers and hopes for singing*

[ld1449]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

Here is a true story from my time listening to the diffrent forums I surf.I was on xbox live just after DA2(which also had a ?? ending)a person was complaining that DA:O had too much reading and did DA 2 have less if so he would try it.That is the person they're going for,less programing,less plot,less conversation choices,less money spent,less man hours=less game but more money for EA/BW.

If so let them wait til AFTER this goddamn game. Mass Effect could have been (could still be) such a great sci-fi series it could go down as big as something like the original Dune or the original Star Wars. If they wanna screw up their stories after this then fine. I'll hapily look for good storytelling elsewhere. But please for all that is good and holy don't let THIS series out of all of them go down like this.

[Ihatebadgames]

Guess it's time(2:10a.m.)to go bed.Y'all have a good day on the sunny side of the world.Play nice hold the line and just say NO to bad manners.

[SkaldFish]

CitizenSnips28 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

bowery tuff wrote...

Only that Star Trek isn't Mass Effect, and Captain Kirk isn't Commander Shepard. Mass Effect never gave you an easy choice because you had consequences to fathom for each. Why can't you save both Ash and Kaidan? Why can't you save the Rachni Queen but send her to the Council so they can decide her fate? Why can't you keep the Collector Base from TIM and instead send it to the Alliance?

I doubt you can answer these questions because that was how Mass Effect was played out from the beginning.

I'd actually disagree to some extent. There are very Kirkish moments in ME from time to time. Basically the paragon or renegade options. Not ALL choices are hard in the game. You can bring peace to geth/quarians, save tali from exile without going against her wishes and revealing her fathers culpability, stop various crew members from fighting with each other without having to pick sides, etc.

Plus I'd argue that those binary "tough decision" moments are the weakest moments in the series from a storytelling perspective. I say that, not because they force difficult decisions, but because they trivialize them by suddenly pretending there are only two options. From a development perspective this makes sense; each branch at such a point dramatically increases the complexity of the story matrix.* But it always smacks of artificiality. Suddenly you're hit with the reality that something else is at work here: the writer has jumped back in and said "here, let me do that for a moment," then handed the controls back to you.

I just want to make sure we don't mistake the pruning of narrative branches to keep complexity manageable for a dramatic device that adds realism to the story.

* Of course, I guess if they were just going to throw the story matrix away at the end anyway, it might as well have been as complex as it needed to be...

[saracen16]

CitizenSnips28 wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

bowery tuff wrote...

Only that Star Trek isn't Mass Effect, and Captain Kirk isn't Commander Shepard. Mass Effect never gave you an easy choice because you had consequences to fathom for each. Why can't you save both Ash and Kaidan? Why can't you save the Rachni Queen but send her to the Council so they can decide her fate? Why can't you keep the Collector Base from TIM and instead send it to the Alliance?

I doubt you can answer these questions because that was how Mass Effect was played out from the beginning.

I'd actually disagree to some extent. There are very Kirkish moments in ME from time to time. Basically the paragon or renegade options. Not ALL choices are hard in the game. You can bring peace to geth/quarians, save tali from exile without going against her wishes and revealing her fathers culpability, stop various crew members from fighting with each other without having to pick sides, etc.

"Some" being the key word, but most of the choices are difficult because you can not escape the circumstances. The last choice of every game so far has involved more sacrifice than any of the other choices combined, and there is no reason that it shouldn't apply to ME3's ending. We are always acting within the framework of the game: we can't spare the Destiny Ascension without sacrificing the Alliance fleet because the strategy demands that we attack the geth forces while they are still at their strongest, as opposed to having the Destiny Ascension and Citadel fleet wipe out a substantial number of them before getting to finally zero-ing in on the remainder (if you chose to sacrifice the council).

That being said, Mass Effect is more realistic: you can not reject the Catalyst at the end because you damn well know that the Crucible is the ONLY way to stop the Reapers (this has been made evident several times in the game, especially the beginning). The Catalyst only focuses its energies to whatever purpose the user, Shepard, desires.

And my questions have still not been answered...

[Chewbacca99]

Ihatebadgames wrote...

Here is a true story from my time listening to the diffrent forums I surf.I was on xbox live just after DA2(which also had a ?? ending)a person was complaining that DA:O had too much reading and did DA 2 have less if so he would try it.That is the person they're going for,less programing,less plot,less conversation choices,less money spent,less man hours=less game but more money for EA/BW.

YES, that is what EA is going for, but they don't realize that is not the kind of developer BW is, and by trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, they inevitably end up with something sucky that NO ONE likes.  PLUS alienate all the core fans who have stuck by BW through thick and thin and love BW for what it is.