101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Atrocity]

DJBare wrote...

KaiserinKai wrote...
We just want to understand the reason as to why anyone would like this ending other than "Just Because", "The Hero Sacrifices Himself", or "The Singularity".
We want to understand them, in that sense we're givng them more respect than they're giving us...

Why is understanding them a requirement?, my ex did not like Star trek, but I did not need to understand her reason, she just did not like it, it was her opinion.

I can't answer for KaiserinKai, but for me asking for an explanation is what I always do when I find a person with different opinion/argument. In a way it's self-reflection, gathering all possible evidence, explanations and arguments for one thing and then looking my own opinion/argument through that. Does my opinion still hold? Y/N? Why so, why not.

Well, not always, always of course, if someone hates pineapples, I don't ask them why, since there's usually nothing more to it than bad taste, but the ending has more reasons to like it or hate it. I don't see it to be that much different from fiction analysis. And analysis is a big part of my thinking.

// And many of the arguments against ending (haven't seen many arguments for the ending to be honest) are really close to one of my current courses in uni, so I wasn't entirely kidding when I mentioned academic curiosity some pages back.

Modifié par Atrocity, 02 avril 2012 - 10:28 .

[Kitimandiri]

3000 pages, go!

[Wirp9b]

 Stop the Jessica bashing. She must have had some serious insults flung her way and just reacted like any human would. What she supposedly said is much ado about nothing and no one should be taking it to heart. And come on she's hot! Cut her some slack even if it's just because of the hotness.

[TamiBx]

silencemayday wrote...

http://i797.photobuc...r/smhchobot.png 
but she did just apologize it seems.. 

and no, i'm not really surprised to be honest.. it's just the way she did it and expressed herself that foced me into facepalm mode. a lot of fans haven't been exactly nice to her, but there's always the black sheep. but after her reaction and choice of words (and of course the lack of objectivity.) i don't actually condemn those people anymore. now, i have no problem with them firing away. 

and bla, i'm way too tired to express myself.. i hope you understand what i'm trying to get at.. 

Whoa, this was intense. She was very vocal about it. She didn't hint at it; she was straight out blunt. 

[Matt_gekko88]

DJBare wrote...

Jessica Chobot, You know what, you're right.

To be honest: I still can't stand her.

Like Friedrich Dürrenmatt said: “What was once thought can never be unthought"

[Nharia1]

Kitimandiri wrote...

3000 pages, go!

If you're not going to post something meaningful, please refrain from counting down or up as the case might be, to a certain page number, it detracts from the thread, and it also means that there is the possibility of this thread being shut down by the mods. You're lucky I'm still half asleep at this point, so you're getting off lightly. ANyways, move on, and don't do this again.

[Hobbyman]

Atrocity wrote...

I can't answer for KaiserinKai, but for me asking for an explanation is what I always do when I find a person with different opinion/argument. In a way it's self-reflection, gathering all possible evidence, explanations and arguments for one thing and then looking my own opinion/argument through that. Does my opinion still hold? Y/N? Why so, why not.

Well, not always, always of course, if someone hates pineapples, I don't ask them why, since there's usually nothing more to it than bad taste, but the ending has more reasons to like it or hate it. I don't see it to be that much different from fiction analysis. And analysis is a big part of my thinking.

Twice I started a discussion with 2 pro-enders out of curiosity to find out some things. I found out that both didn't like the ending, they liked a part of the ending. One of them liked the fact that ithe ending introduced god (or a god-like being) and since he/she was deeply religious he/she found it amazing and the other liked the fact that it had 2 or 3 emotional scenes that made him/her cry.....!

While I agree with DJBare that they are not obligated in any way to tell us their reasons, they should be ready to answer logically and with valid arguments since they come in the forums trying to be hipsters and get some attention. Because in the end that is what I believe that all the pro-enders are. After that much time, I still haven't seen any pro-ender managing even the slightest argument about the major topics of this game.

[Nharia1]

Wirp9b wrote...

 Stop the Jessica bashing. She must have had some serious insults flung her way and just reacted like any human would. What she supposedly said is much ado about nothing and no one should be taking it to heart. And come on she's hot! Cut her some slack even if it's just because of the hotness.

How is she hot? I fail to see how your arguement that based upon her looks she should be cut some slack...

[DarthLaxian]

Cybermortis wrote...
]
Speaking out against a companies line while still employed by said company is great way to become unemployed. It's also a great way to kill off your chances of working in that job market for the forseeable future, because your former boss is not going to wax lyrical about your skills when asked for a reference...assuming that everyone in that business hasn't already heard what you did.

maybe - i for one would want employes to have their own oppinion (!) and be able to voice it.

I would go so far as not to employ people that do not challenge me (as the boss of a company or the boss of a team)! (i am not talking about a leadership challenge but an employe telling me something like "your oppinions sucks because..." (and then explaining why))

but that might not be EA's forte (they were always a little oppressive IMHO)

greetings LAX
ps: i am NOT saying all is bad in EA-Country, they just need to understand that what they are doing is not healthy. Neither for the company itself, nor for the employes or the whole gaming market! (ATM the market stagnates - partly because of "old" console hardware, but partly also because there is no creative new ideas, no risks being taken etc.)

[Cybermortis]

DJBare wrote...

Atrocity wrote...
The only problem I have with the message circulating, if it's the real deal, is how she seems to associate retakers with those people who have been insulting her. As in: Retake ME3 = hate her. But as I said, I understand her reaction.

Well, it's not like anybody have come out in her defense, rather they read the bile and remain silent.

Imagine how she must have felt. She was given the chance to appear in well known video game, and this must have delighted her no end.

Then the game comes out and all these idiots start hurling abuse at her.

Of course she's going to be upset and lash out.

Speaking for myself, I didn't find the character all that interesting. But nor did I have a problem with her, and I didn't find her voice work all that out of place. Those that did should, maybe, bare in mind that they are comparing her performance against the rest of the cast - all of whom are professional voice-actors.

The question as to if Bioware should have allowed a games reviewer, or someone connected to a review site, to appear in their game is a totally different matter. But that is a fault that lies with Bioware and IGN not the individual who appeared in the game.

[KaiserinKai]

DJBare wrote...

KaiserinKai wrote...
We just want to understand the reason as to why anyone would like this ending other than "Just Because", "The Hero Sacrifices Himself", or "The Singularity".
We want to understand them, in that sense we're givng them more respect than they're giving us...

Why is understanding them a requirement?, my ex did not like Star trek, but I did not need to understand her reason, she just did not like it, it was her opinion.

Because most of them bash us for not liking it. If they respected us not liking it, I would respect them and not care why they did like them. They say, "You don't get it". What don't I get, I'm really am curious...

Given that I get attacked when mentioning that I didn't like the endings, I would like to understand their resoning. I like to know both sides which I feel is neccisary to defend myself. I also hope to use that knowledge to defend why I don't like them.

I personally believe that understanding is the key to any misunderstanding. I fully respect their opinion, but I desire the information of what they feel and why so I can defend my opinion.

[Darth_Acheron47]

DJBare wrote...

Atrocity wrote...
The only problem I have with the message circulating, if it's the real deal, is how she seems to associate retakers with those people who have been insulting her. As in: Retake ME3 = hate her. But as I said, I understand her reaction.

Well, it's not like anybody have come out in her defense, rather they read the bile and remain silent.

Was planning on just lurking around today, but...

I've only seen a few things mentioned about Jessica Chobot, and certainly not anything uncivilized or outright mean. If I had, I probably would have said something about that kind of stuff being unnecessary and counter-productive.

Personally, I had no issue with her character or her voice acting. Was it the best voice acting in the game? No, but she's not an actor. For her character, I thought things were very well done, and I had no issue having her on my ship. There were a couple of moments I even felt for her (like when she mentioned her home planet getting wiped out because they have factories - that make binoculars.) Even after finding out she worked for IGN, I still allowed the character on my ship at the start of my second play through.

That said, it sounds like some people were being incredibly rude, and I can't say I blame her for lashing out. Bad reaction to a bad reaction it may have been, and it's unfortunate the whole of Retake has been categorized as "whiny" and "entitled" and that people see BioWare as "caving to a mass of fanboys" if they change the ending of the game, but I honestly can't blame her for feeling hurt that people reacted so negatively to her *personally*.

[Ohpus]

KaiserinKai wrote...

Ohpus wrote...

HITMAN629 wrote...

So April, what do you guys think is going to happen?

Pondering on what will happen is as pointless as teaching a Vorcha abstinence education.

Just go play another video game for a while and check in from time to time. Currently I'm playing Amalur while waiting for Diablo III.

On that thought...Witcher 2 is releasing an enhanced (ie Fixed with more content) game April 17th. Now if they wanted to release an Enhanced edition of ME3 as a DLC with fixed ending and a lot of additional content, I would buy that. But that is also a bit borderline since it could be seen as encouraging companies to release functional skeletons of the game and charge us for the primary organs.

The difference is, for those who already have the game on the PC, they're giving the enhanced stuffs for free...

Yeah, they are good at that. DLC is free, you only pay for expansion packs. Good way to get market share for a new company.

Which bring up something else. Where did the free stuff like Cerebus network go? I mean, I used that Arc Blaster over the Collector Particle Beam on higher difficulties. It was great stuff.

* note, Mr Bond: can't edit the trees on my phone. Sorry, ol' chap.

[Atrocity]

Cybermortis wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Atrocity wrote...
The only problem I have with the message circulating, if it's the real deal, is how she seems to associate retakers with those people who have been insulting her. As in: Retake ME3 = hate her. But as I said, I understand her reaction.

Well, it's not like anybody have come out in her defense, rather they read the bile and remain silent.

Imagine how she must have felt. She was given the chance to appear in well known video game, and this must have delighted her no end.

Then the game comes out and all these idiots start hurling abuse at her.

Of course she's going to be upset and lash out.

Speaking for myself, I didn't find the character all that interesting. But nor did I have a problem with her, and I didn't find her voice work all that out of place. Those that did should, maybe, bare in mind that they are comparing her performance against the rest of the cast - all of whom are professional voice-actors.

The question as to if Bioware should have allowed a games reviewer, or someone connected to a review site, to appear in their game is a totally different matter. But that is a fault that lies with Bioware and IGN not the individual who appeared in the game.

I couldn't agree more, I'm just a bit confused why am I being quoted, since I don't really have beef with her, her character, her blog, or her working for IGN 

[K0M154R]

DJBare wrote...

Jessica Chobot, You know what, you're right.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
 
Although, still frustrated with this "It's Art, deal with it" arguement. Having studied at a arts highschool and having taken several high level art and art appreciation classes in Italy, I feel like I know what Art is when I see it, and while you can call just about anything art (I imediately think "This is not a pipe", although I forget it in french) you can't just hide behind that word. A good, artistic sad anding would be akin to the original ending to Brazil, hat we got was a cobbled together ill-thoughtout string of retconning bile that was the opposite of what we were promised. ART is no defense for that.

In a week they should have another arguement, but methinks eventually they and the industry will look back at this and say, "Yeah, our bad, we screwed up."

Modifié par K0M154R, 02 avril 2012 - 10:35 .

[DJBare]

Cybermortis wrote...
Imagine how she must have felt. She was given the chance to appear in well known video game, and this must have delighted her no end.

Yup, despite my suave demeanour, I know exactly how I would have felt if a favorite developer had asked me to partake in their story and then i got spat on every which way, it would totally crush me, but I see the problem, I've seen it so many times over the decades I've been surfing the net, it dehumanizes and people forget their target is a human being and that words can carry more power than any weapon.

[Wirp9b]

Nharia1 wrote...

Wirp9b wrote...

 Stop the Jessica bashing. She must have had some serious insults flung her way and just reacted like any human would. What she supposedly said is much ado about nothing and no one should be taking it to heart. And come on she's hot! Cut her some slack even if it's just because of the hotness.

How is she hot? I fail to see how your arguement that based upon her looks she should be cut some slack...

Sigh. I was hoping that maybe, just maybe you'd google some of her pics and be swayed.
The hate is strong with this one.

EDIT
Silly me for thinking that everyone here is a hot-blooded heterosexual male. Apologies.

Modifié par Wirp9b, 02 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[Nharia1]

Atrocity wrote...

I couldn't agree more, I'm just a bit confused why am I being quoted, since I don't really have beef with her, her character, her blog, or her working for IGN 

Because of your name? Who knows~!

[DJBare]

Atrocity wrote...

I couldn't agree more, I'm just a bit confused why am I being quoted, since I don't really have beef with her, her character, her blog, or her working for IGN 

Apologies atrocity, I quoted you because I was unable to find the original quote, I needed a reference.

[silencemayday]

now i'm really, really sorry that i brought the whole thing up and feel like curling up under a blanket while listening to really really crappy sad indie music.

ah f* this evening.

[Alamar2078]

As for Ms. Chobat I'll reexpress my opinion:

I don't think she did a horrible job all things considered.

On the other hand I think that having Emily Wong or even Ms. Al-Jilane [sp??] would have been a better choice because we know the characters, have some attachment to them, and the conspiracy theorys / potential conflict of interest issues go away.

Creatively I'd have to say bad move to get some cheap publicity.

Note: BW really didn't help with their in-game model. As opposed to a dignified reporter / serious journalist there was a different message advertised IMHO.

[Matt_gekko88]

DJBare wrote...

Apologies atrocity, I quoted you because I was unable to find the original quote, I needed a reference.

Well, pick my name, since I'm not really a fan of her.

Anyways, I think I love this song.

Modifié par Matt_gekko88, 02 avril 2012 - 10:39 .

[Nharia1]

Wirp9b wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...

Wirp9b wrote...

 Stop the Jessica bashing. She must have had some serious insults flung her way and just reacted like any human would. What she supposedly said is much ado about nothing and no one should be taking it to heart. And come on she's hot! Cut her some slack even if it's just because of the hotness.

How is she hot? I fail to see how your arguement that based upon her looks she should be cut some slack...

Sigh. I was hoping that maybe, just maybe you'd google some of her pics and be swayed.
The hate is strong with this one.

Eh, she's "okay", but she's no where near hot in my books~! And its not hate, its more just dislike for her character because she doesn't do anything for me in game...

[KaiserinKai]

Darth_Acheron47 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Atrocity wrote...
The only problem I have with the message circulating, if it's the real deal, is how she seems to associate retakers with those people who have been insulting her. As in: Retake ME3 = hate her. But as I said, I understand her reaction.

Well, it's not like anybody have come out in her defense, rather they read the bile and remain silent.

Was planning on just lurking around today, but...

I've only seen a few things mentioned about Jessica Chobot, and certainly not anything uncivilized or outright mean. If I had, I probably would have said something about that kind of stuff being unnecessary and counter-productive.

Personally, I had no issue with her character or her voice acting. Was it the best voice acting in the game? No, but she's not an actor. For her character, I thought things were very well done, and I had no issue having her on my ship. There were a couple of moments I even felt for her (like when she mentioned her home planet getting wiped out because they have factories - that make binoculars.) Even after finding out she worked for IGN, I still allowed the character on my ship at the start of my second play through.

That said, it sounds like some people were being incredibly rude, and I can't say I blame her for lashing out. Bad reaction to a bad reaction it may have been, and it's unfortunate the whole of Retake has been categorized as "whiny" and "entitled" and that people see BioWare as "caving to a mass of fanboys" if they change the ending of the game, but I honestly can't blame her for feeling hurt that people reacted so negatively to her *personally*.

Same here. I DO NOT approve of her insulting our whole movement.

On the other side of the coin I also DO NOT approve of the people attacking her.

I had no problem with her, I mosly ignored her character. Just used her for the extra war assets.

I admit I did call her the IGN spy at one point but it was mostly in jest and it was more because IGN was bashing us to death. If IGN hadn't posted all that hurtful stuff I wouldn't have said a thing about her.

If she hadn't said hurtful stuff I would really have no beef with her and either way I am honestly ashamed of the people who were/are harrassing her.

In the end, the only things I'm against are the endings and the mainstream gaming media's treatment of us. No more and no less.

Modifié par KaiserinKai, 02 avril 2012 - 10:41 .

[Laterali]

I don't understand why someone wouldn't be interested in reasoning behind a differing opinion. Of course you would want to know why someone has a certain opinion if you wanted to grow as an individual, come to an understanding, gather as much information so you could weigh your opinion to theirs and maybe realize you were wrong all along.

To just say, oh you think differently than me, fair enough. To me just means you've no desire to actually hear that opinion.

If I am talking to someone, and they say something completely opposite of me, what kind of person would I be if I said, "I have no desire to hear your thoughts on that." ?

By asking people who liked the ending to expand on their opinion, I can at least try to understand it and show some sincerity. And hopefully they would try to understand my point as well. We probably wouldn't end up agreeing, but at least there would be mutual respect.