101103 réponses à ce sujet

[MetalCargo999]

OK! So I skimmed through it. And let me tell you, I agree with almost all of it. Now let's look at Bioware's response. You require justification for Starchild, Shepard's attitude in light of Starchild's logic, justification for the three choices, justification for the three outcomes of the choices, explanations for the Normandy and starving fleets etc.

We already know from some tweets that Shepard can possibly be reunited to his squad, and that the fleets won't starve to death. An explanation is in the works to solve these issues. As for the other issues that require justification, you say that the only choice in the matter is to get rid of them entirely. Bioware's response is that they can justify these things. How? We still don't know. Until we do know, we are only speculating as to what that might be, and in your case, since you lack consumer trust, you're expressing it with negative feedback. My suggestion is that we stop complaining about something we know very little about, and until we do (because the fact of the matter is that we don't), we stop complaining for the sake of PR. Yes, our PR. I mentioned in another response how we are losing "war assets" as a result of our behaviour. Why? Because we are presumptuous (not entitled). We need to get rid of that image.

[TSC_1]

morph4037 wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...
*snip*

No offense, but try to post that on a blog site then link to it there.

Formatting issue, sorry. Fixed it.

[RussianOrc]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Missy_MI wrote...

In an effort not to see this thread locked, could we:
1) Link to very long posts instead of copy/pasting them in their entirety?
2) Not imply people with differing opinions should go somewhere else to express them?

I have a feeling many folks have been relying on this thread for news and support (I know I have).  Let's make sure it doesn't get shut down now after all this time please.

Retake has its own website with forums.
Linky

All the news you need in terms of what is happening can be found there.

Who runs this page?

[TSC_1]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

OK! So I skimmed through it. And let me tell you, I agree with almost all of it. Now let's look at Bioware's response. You require justification for Starchild, Shepard's attitude in light of Starchild's logic, justification for the three choices, justification for the three outcomes of the choices, explanations for the Normandy and starving fleets etc.

We already know from some tweets that Shepard can possibly be reunited to his squad, and that the fleets won't starve to death. An explanation is in the works to solve these issues. As for the other issues that require justification, you say that the only choice in the matter is to get rid of them entirely. Bioware's response is that they can justify these things. How? We still don't know. Until we do know, we are only speculating as to what that might be, and in your case, since you lack consumer trust, you're expressing it with negative feedback. My suggestion is that we stop complaining about something we know very little about, and until we do (because the fact of the matter is that we don't), we stop complaining for the sake of PR. Yes, our PR. I mentioned in another response how we are losing "war assets" as a result of our behaviour. Why? Because we are presumptuous (not entitled). We need to get rid of that image.

No. I don't want justifications for those things. I want them removed and replaced with something better. Explanation is not good enough. That's what we've been saying from the start. Bioware has ignored us. What part of that do you not understand?

(Also, why did you get me to post that whole thing if you weren't going to actually read it?)

Modifié par TSC_1, 06 avril 2012 - 04:11 .

[JamesYHT]

I'm holding the line

[-PG-Skyre]

RussianOrc wrote...

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Retake has its own website with forums.
Linky

All the news you need in terms of what is happening can be found there.

Who runs this page?

Same crew doing the Twitter feed and Facebook page.

[RussianOrc]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

RussianOrc wrote...

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Retake has its own website with forums.
Linky

All the news you need in terms of what is happening can be found there.

Who runs this page?

Same crew doing the Twitter feed and Facebook page.

Registered.

Modifié par RussianOrc, 06 avril 2012 - 04:15 .

[Aviditie]

Thank you, TSC_1. I hadn't read your description, but it is dead on. Thank you.

[TSC_1]

Aviditie wrote...

Thank you, TSC_1. I hadn't read your description, but it is dead on. Thank you.

And thank you.

[geckosentme]

TSC_1:

Interested that you also noted that the ending theme is strongly transhumanist. I think whoever wrote this ending also decided to engage in some agendizing.

Good article.

[MetalCargo999]

TSC_1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

OK! So I skimmed through it. And let me tell you, I agree with almost all of it. Now let's look at Bioware's response. You require justification for Starchild, Shepard's attitude in light of Starchild's logic, justification for the three choices, justification for the three outcomes of the choices, explanations for the Normandy and starving fleets etc.

We already know from some tweets that Shepard can possibly be reunited to his squad, and that the fleets won't starve to death. An explanation is in the works to solve these issues. As for the other issues that require justification, you say that the only choice in the matter is to get rid of them entirely. Bioware's response is that they can justify these things. How? We still don't know. Until we do know, we are only speculating as to what that might be, and in your case, since you lack consumer trust, you're expressing it with negative feedback. My suggestion is that we stop complaining about something we know very little about, and until we do (because the fact of the matter is that we don't), we stop complaining for the sake of PR. Yes, our PR. I mentioned in another response how we are losing "war assets" as a result of our behaviour. Why? Because we are presumptuous (not entitled). We need to get rid of that image.

No. I don't want justifications for those things. I want them removed and replaced with something better. Explanation is not good enough. That's what we've been saying from the start. Bioware has ignored us.

Exactly.  And that isn't entitlment, that is being presumptuous.  If they manage a good explanation that actually does justify the ending, then your only argument will be a subjective one, and not an objective one.  That scares you.  And I understand that.  I really didn't like the ending either, primarily for the way Starchild's logic contradicts Shepard's possible experience with the Geth/Quarian war and EDI.  But if they can correct their storytelling errors and justify the ending, then even though I won't like the endings, I can at least say that Mass Effect got a proper ending, even if I don't like it.  Not only that, but there is a small chance (albeit very small) that they might make enough changes to make the endings good. 

But then... that's just specualtion. 

[Aviditie]

Computim - wanna go grab a beer and find better games to enjoy! :-P hey maybe Bioware's exit will hail another, better RPG maker who can truly become the Master!

[-PG-Skyre]

I would like to point out, it is not uncommon for businesses to try to "commit suicide" after being purchased by larger companies. Generally it is an attempt to not let their name be used and abused, so they go out on their own terms.

It was just something one of my professors talked about today.

[Aviditie]

Wait - how do we know from tweets that Shepard can be reunited with crew and others won't starve etc?

[RDSFirebane]

So what have I missed guys?

Modifié par RDSFirebane, 06 avril 2012 - 04:28 .

[thedrez]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

I would like to point out, it is not uncommon for businesses to try to "commit suicide" after being purchased by larger companies. Generally it is an attempt to not let their name be used and abused, so they go out on their own terms.

It was just something one of my professors talked about today.

hmmmm..... poison pill???

[Aviditie]

Be ause if that's just tweets from writers undoing the story - it doesn't work.

[Computim]

I'm heading to bed soon.. I'll leave everyone with this:

We sat quietly.  We were promised, once again, that there was 'Good news' and 'big news' forthcoming at PAX.  Lots of things to discuss and what not.

We've made enough noise that, not only did someone come over to see what all the fuss was about, but I'm pretty sure they promptly went home, locked the doors and went zombie apocalypse lockdown.  We've already changed the industry for the better.  Companies are changing their offerings, being more open, heck some are preemptively changing their endings that they, themselves, admitted weren't quite perfect.. we didn't even need to ASK them to.

Bioware has become a university study for future customer relations and marketing students.. unfortunately it's a "What not to do".

• Don't hope your complaining customers will go away.
  
  
• Defend your customers when the people you're paying to advertise to said customers with start calling said customers entitled for bringing their complaints to you.
  
  
• Control your message.  The worst thing you can do when you have a complaint about inaccuracies in pre-release info is have inaccuracies in your information leading up to how you're addressing the problems.
  
  
• Most importantly: Your customer is always right.  Even when your customer is wrong, your customer is always right.   Bioware could have added the endings, they already have 'canon' and non-canon story arcs.. Male Shepard is considered, by Bioware's own admission, to technically not be 'canon' since FemShep is the canon-story.  Part of the magic of Mass Effect was you had so many choices and consequences you were able to craft your own story.. and then compare them with others... forcing people down a singular path not only takes this away from the player but violates the covenant you formed with them when you set gameplay rules up to that point in a particular pattern.
  
  
• Ego has no place in business.  You're paid to produce a product, the satisfaction you take from this should not be a higher priority than fulfilling the responsibility you agreed to take when you took the position within the business you hold.  If you want personal fulfillment and are not getting it from your work, you should be working somewhere else.
  
  
• When someone complains, don't argue with them, especially using reviews that they consider biased to start with, and, unless you hate your company and really don't want them to succeed, name calling, or belittling the scope of their problem is the worst thing you can do.
  
  
• When 90% of the mainstream media thinks you've said you'll do something, and you know you're NOT going to do that, admit it, don't just pretend it didn't happen.. that's dishonest.  Honesty would be clarifying your statement, dishonesty would be taking the respite offered by people thinking you're doing something you're not.

These are why there is a movement.. these are why there are thousands of angry people giving your products bad reviews, boycotting you, returning your products, refusing to buy future products.

Disregarding this is disregarding your feduciary responsibility that you promised to uphold when you took the position you did.

EA will not forget this, your fellow companies will not forget this.  When your bad judgement affects their product I guarantee there will be some bitterness although their professionalism may not show it.

Hold the line everyone.  I'll be back on tomorrow - this isn't over, not by a long shot.

Modifié par Computim, 06 avril 2012 - 04:23 .

[B33ker]

I've been tempted to go back and play some OLD rpg games to get my mind off this disaster when I came across this.......

http://www.grimrock.net/

Reminds me of the old Eye of the Beholder series that I loved so much, and the price is certainly right.

I may just give it a whirl to pass some time while EA/BW digs themselves in deeper and deeper.........

There's plenty of games like this to replace EA/BW so I'm not too worried if I never buy a product from them again. 

[TSC_1]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

Exactly.  And that isn't entitlment, that is being presumptuous.  If they manage a good explanation that actually does justify the ending, then your only argument will be a subjective one, and not an objective one.  That scares you.  And I understand that.  I really didn't like the ending either, primarily for the way Starchild's logic contradicts Shepard's possible experience with the Geth/Quarian war and EDI.  But if they can correct their storytelling errors and justify the ending, then even though I won't like the endings, I can at least say that Mass Effect got a proper ending, even if I don't like it.  Not only that, but there is a small chance (albeit very small) that they might make enough changes to make the endings good. 

But then... that's just specualtion. 

...so you didn't read that long post, then. I pointed out exactly why explanations cannot salvage the ending.

[GoldBTM25]

All right, good folks. May you all have a good night.

[TamiBx]

 I'm not sure if I want to be here tomorrow, but I'm off to bed now~

Good night everyone! And whatever happens, it was nice holding the line with you. 

[thedrez]

I've been following this thread for a few days now... it hit me today after announcement:

"The created will inevitably rebel against the creator."

Isn't that what we are doing?

BW created a huge fan base with ME and then that fan base (obviously not all) is now rebelling against the very source that brought us together (in some sense, creating us).


My solution is to delete everything that was EA/BW to prevent me from ever having to delete anything that is EA/BW in the future. You can say, I harvested the games from my PC... leaving the other game houses titles for future harvesting.


What do you think of my solution?

[Darth Garrus]

TSC_1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

Exactly.  And that isn't entitlment, that is being presumptuous.  If they manage a good explanation that actually does justify the ending, then your only argument will be a subjective one, and not an objective one.  That scares you.  And I understand that.  I really didn't like the ending either, primarily for the way Starchild's logic contradicts Shepard's possible experience with the Geth/Quarian war and EDI.  But if they can correct their storytelling errors and justify the ending, then even though I won't like the endings, I can at least say that Mass Effect got a proper ending, even if I don't like it.  Not only that, but there is a small chance (albeit very small) that they might make enough changes to make the endings good. 

But then... that's just specualtion. 

...so you didn't read that long post, then. I pointed out exactly why explanations cannot salvage the ending.

He knows. After 3000 posts, he knows. He just want everybody to think like him. I hope he stops, but as it looks like, it's too much to ask...

[Darkspazztic]

thedrez wrote...

What do you think of my solution?

Needs more color coding.