101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Fox544]

God I thought of a darn good expansion that would fix the endings, let BW keep their original view and keep to Mr Hudson's quote that the fans are "co-creators". Marauder Shields companion (think Faux from Fallout 3. A mutant with some humanity left but always bordering on madness), Cerberus adapted Cannibal arm cannon (I'm ripping off Mega Man's Buster Cannon complete with Overcharge shot that uses the player's shields), and complete use of the Indoc Theory.

[thedrez]

Darkspazztic wrote...

thedrez wrote...

What do you think of my solution?

Needs more color coding.

Well if you need clarification, I'll have a DLC post later this summer and then you'll see the utter brilliance of my artistic monochromatic reply...  But until then, HOLD THE LINE!!

Night folks...

[RussianOrc]

thedrez wrote...

I've been following this thread for a few days now... it hit me today after announcement:

"The created will inevitably rebel against the creator."

Isn't that what we are doing?

BW created a huge fan base with ME and then that fan base (obviously not all) is now rebelling against the very source that brought us together (in some sense, creating us).


My solution is to delete everything that was EA/BW to prevent me from ever having to delete anything that is EA/BW in the future. You can say, I harvested the games from my PC... leaving the other game houses titles for future harvesting.


What do you think of my solution?

See?! even you can be Bioware's lead writer.

[Nilofeliu]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

How clear is it, though?  Do they say why Joker left with the Normandy, and how the crew got on board?  Did they try to bring out the past themes of the game to try and justify Starchild in this release?  Did they justify the relay explosions, or how the synthesis ending works?

The only thing they are actually saying in this release statement is that they are going to try to respond to fans.  So let them, then it's our turn.

Actually if you had taken your time to read the article instead of complain about us "gamers" and support Bioware/EA in every little annoucement they make, you would have noticed how wrong you are.

What can fans expect from the Extended Cut DLC?
For fans who want more closure in Mass Effect 3, the DLC will offer extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion of Commander Shepard’s journey.

Bioware clearly says they will only offer some "extended scenes" to provide a better sense of closure. I believe they simply mean to show the Normady landing on earth, picking up the squad members and taking off again. Perhaps a Joker and Edi making babies???  They haven't realized there isn't much that can be extended from the endings they gave us, because the endings left nothing standing.  And by mentioning a "deeper insight", and I may be wrong, but I only hear them saying we just are not smart enough to understand what they meant by those endings.

Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
No. BioWare strongly believes in the team’s artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned.

Once and again Bioware failed to listen to us, despite all their claims that they have been listening. We don't want an extended DLC, we don't want  extra scene. We want endings that accounts for everything we did during the 3 games.

And for the team's artistic vision the only thing I can say is that they have no idea what art really is. They must be a team of blinds and mutes, otherwise they would have seem or heard the abomination they created. And I beg your forgiveness ahead, but extended crap is still crap, just like ice cream on top of crap doesn't change it to ice cream.

One last remark of the artistic vision Bioware is so fond of, I wonder what the developers of Deus Ex have to say about them copying their endings. Plaguiarism is not artistic vision, is a felony people...

What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3..

Again the clarity issue. If they knew the endings needed clarity, why didn't they bother with it beforehand. And if they believe is good enough as it is, and they are so loyal to their artistic vision, why change? This is just another PR maneuver trying to regain the fan trust by saying that they are doing something about it. However, they are still doing what THEY want about it, not what we asked, or they promised during pre-launch.

So I will say this once more, extended scenes and "clarification" does not make up for all the lies we were told before release, and it not nearly enough to make the game playable ever again.

When will the Extended Cut DLC be available?
Currently the Extended Cut DLC is planned for this summer, no specific date has been announced at this point.

Again, just a PR stunt. They are working on it, but on their timetable. They have no care for the customer lack of satisfaction with a flawed and poorly developed product.

Why are you releasing the Extended Cut DLC?
Though we remain committed and are proud of the artistic choices we made in the main game, we are aware that there are some fans who would like more closure to Mass Effect 3. The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game, rather to offer fans additional context and answers to the end of Commander Shepard’s story.

And Bioware still underestimate us. SOME FANS??? Closure?? And again they stated they have no intention on creating new endings. This is it folks and brothers in arms. The only endings are those we already have. Bioware DOES NOT CARE about us as customers, and shows no loyalty to its fan base. The very same fan base that has been around for over a decade.

I do not know if this is the EA effect, or just the new age of running a gaming company, but this is not enough. Not even close.

Will there be more Mass Effect 3 DLC?
More content is being planned and we will release information at a later date.

This one I actually enjoyed. More content is being planned, however will only be released if we still have customers around..


It seems you are either a fanboy who will do anything and everything Bioware asks of you, or you are in fact an employee and your only focus here is to disrupt everything we say.

So, for you my dear Metalcargo, honestly, by reading you previous posts, I can't care less for what you have to say. You make no sense and your logic is flawed, as well as your understanding of customer's satisfaction, fan's loyalty and marketin. On the other if you are trying to put down the heat Bioware is taking, you are also doing a fairly poor job and failing miserably.

For Bioware and EA, I have been a loyal customer for nearly two decades, been playing games like The Sims, SimCity (all versions of it and as looking forward for the new one) and other titles such as Baldur's Gate (both and expansions) Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2 + ext) Dragon Age (both) KOTOR (both) SW:TOR ( two accounts actually) Mass Effect Series and others that might have slipped my mind. For many years I have waited anxiously for each new release, and played it with great pride and satisfaction, and even during hard times when critics were far from civil against you, I kept my faith that you would turn the table around.

It saddens me to say that I no longer have any faith left in either of you. Everything that Bioware and EA ever meant to me is gone, tarnished by your late behavior and lack of respect to us, your fans and customers. Lies after lies you have led us to this fatal and last moment. Yesterday's annoucement (quoted above) was just the last straw. Not only you fail to understand what we asked of you, or to keep your promises as well, but you have failed to acknowledge your own faults and shortcomings.

Since this Retake Movement began I have been here, posting, reading patiently, and most of the time, though I was hopeful for a new endings, all I really wanted was for you, Bioware/EA, to acknowledge you have wronged us and to make a public apology. I see now that I asked for too much. There won't be any public apology because you do not believe to be wrong.

The first step to correcting a mistake, is by acknowledging the mistake. You refuse to do so. You refused to give us our due, and to treat us as the loving fans we were. We gave you our time, our money and our loyalty only to be offended by many gaming sites that called us from whinners to brainless children, and in no moment you as a company stood up for us.

Another sad sad thing, was the reaction regarding our fund raising. When you EA used it to gain publicity on your games it was alright and perfectly acceptable, since Child's Play was meatn for gamer's. But you are not gamers, you are developers. We are the gamers and when we used it to get some attention to our cause it was shut down under a month, and yet we managed to raise a substantial amount of money. I do not regret donating at all, and honestly, I never thought to use it as leverage, but to be accused of doing by nearly everyone until FORBES stood up for us, was heartbreaking.

Having said that, I think this is goobye, and though I will miss the old days, I won't miss the present, and even less the future. Only once before I made a decision of this kind, regarding another game and another company, and I have kept my word for the past 7 years. Now it's your turn. I will just forget you ever existed. It is even funny to say that I have spent the past 5 years playing Mass Effect over and over (1 and 2) and have eagerly waited for the past year for Mass Effect 3, but now, I can go entire days without thinking of it,  and haven't played it for a almost a month. Soon, I won't even remember I ever played it, and soon I won't even remember you Bioware and EA exists..

For those of you who have been here with me since the beginning, this is my final goodbye. This battle seems to be lost, but I will still fight the war. I will fight it with my wallet and with my money until the companies realize they can't just throw any junk at us and expect us to take it silenty. Either the company delivers or they lose us as customers. This is the real war we must attend to. And even though is sad to leave Mass Effect behind, I feel proud to be here with all of you.

/Salute

SSV Boston leaving the Front...

[MetalCargo999]

TSC_1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

Exactly.  And that isn't entitlment, that is being presumptuous.  If they manage a good explanation that actually does justify the ending, then your only argument will be a subjective one, and not an objective one.  That scares you.  And I understand that.  I really didn't like the ending either, primarily for the way Starchild's logic contradicts Shepard's possible experience with the Geth/Quarian war and EDI.  But if they can correct their storytelling errors and justify the ending, then even though I won't like the endings, I can at least say that Mass Effect got a proper ending, even if I don't like it.  Not only that, but there is a small chance (albeit very small) that they might make enough changes to make the endings good. 

But then... that's just specualtion. 

...so you didn't read that long post, then. I pointed out exactly why explanations cannot salvage the ending.

According to your own understanding.  Maybe someone else can come up with an explanation, and that is what Bioware is saying they can do.  Until you see it, you can't argu against it.  And arguing against it before anything comes out is bad PR for us, and as a result, WE lose. 

Here is a comment made by Paul Tassi, a Forbes contributor who has been "on our side" from the beginning:

"Because it’s a compromise, and the Retake movement has to understand they were not going to get a page one rewrite. It just simply would not happen. Even if I was Bioware, and I knew I screwed up, I would not completely abandon the ending I did produce. I would try and alter it and expand on it in an effort to give more resolution and closure to the story, which I thought were the main points of what fans wanted. The fact that a protest movement made a company produce FREE DLC is unprecedented, and the fact that fans can’t seem to celebrate this moment as a win is confusing. If they keep protesting at this point, it looks like they can never be satisfied. Even I, covering this for a long time now, am unclear about what would truly satisfy everyone at this point. I don’t think anything can." (read the full article and his comments at http://www.forbes.co...-with-free-dlc/)

If we lose the PR war, we lose everything.  Is that what you want?  It's not what anybody wants, cause in the end WE lose.  Fall in line and hold it properly!  We CAN make a difference, and according to the experts, we already have.  So let's not give up or lose hope!  Let's do this properly, see what is being offered, and THEN respond.

I'm on your side.  And it's taking a hell of a lot of effort to convince you all of this. 

[Mythandariel]

Laterali wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the only story that makes sense in this game is the Genophage Cure storyline. i was thinking about Samara's sidequest. In ME2, she says their are three Ardat Yakshi in existence, then 6 months later, there is a monastary chock-a-full of Ardat-Yakshi. Then she says that she'll join you if you're willing to accept her, you say welcome aboard, and then you get an email telling you she actually isn't joining you... WTF!!!

Was a drunken elephant in charge of continuity in this game or what? Bad writers...

I feel like there should be two robots and a guy's silhouettes sitting in front of the screen while I played...

She didn't say there were only three. She said she had three daughters, and all of them were Ardat Yakshi. She never said anything about how many there were, only that they were rare.

[Fox544]

Mythandariel wrote...

Laterali wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the only story that makes sense in this game is the Genophage Cure storyline. i was thinking about Samara's sidequest. In ME2, she says their are three Ardat Yakshi in existence, then 6 months later, there is a monastary chock-a-full of Ardat-Yakshi. Then she says that she'll join you if you're willing to accept her, you say welcome aboard, and then you get an email telling you she actually isn't joining you... WTF!!!

Was a drunken elephant in charge of continuity in this game or what? Bad writers...

I feel like there should be two robots and a guy's silhouettes sitting in front of the screen while I played...

She didn't say there were only three. She said she had three daughters, and all of them were Ardat Yakshi. She never said anything about how many there were, only that they were rare.

I believe she did. Something in ME2 along the lines of there are 3 known in existance and I have 3 daughters. I'd have to find the scene again t be sure,

[DJBare]

I may not agree with everything that MetalCargo states, but he is definitely right about one thing, we NEED the press on our side, to the general public we are still "Just" gamers; heck you even see it posted quite often on the forums "get a life, it's just a game"; and that's the attitude the general public continues to view us with, now we might consider the other side is playing unfair, but that does not mean we should do the same thing.
You are angry and that in my opinion is justified, however what is not justified is attacking before we have all the facts, that will just come back and bite us on the arse, the press don't play by fair rules, they go with the story that gets them the ratings.

[Jetfire99]

-PG-Skyre wrote...

Lt_Kitty wrote...

Alamandorious wrote...

You know, I'm actually starting to consider giving up video games in general (sticking with the one or two I can still enjoy and ignoring the rest), and devoting more of my time to my WH40K hobby.

At least there I truly do influence what happens to my army in the end.

I'm right there with you, man.  My Blood Angels are jelous of my time spent on ME.

5000pt Black Templar army here.

5000ish Imperial guard Army. The hammer of the emperor stands ready.

[Laterali]

"I have 3 daughters, there are 3 Ardat-Yakshi in existence today. It is as it sounds" Exact quote from ME2.

[donmaciu]

Laterali wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the only story that makes sense in this game is the Genophage Cure storyline. i was thinking about Samara's sidequest. In ME2, she says their are three Ardat Yakshi in existence, then 6 months later, there is a monastary chock-a-full of Ardat-Yakshi. Then she says that she'll join you if you're willing to accept her, you say welcome aboard, and then you get an email telling you she actually isn't joining you... WTF!!!

Was a drunken elephant in charge of continuity in this game or what? Bad writers...

I feel like there should be two robots and a guy's silhouettes sitting in front of the screen while I played...

Were there more than two Ardat-Yakshi there?
I thought the rest of asari there was from the commando.

Modifié par donmaciu, 06 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[Rocktel]

Bioware could have added the endings, they already have 'canon' and non-canon story arcs.. Male Shepard is considered, by Bioware's own admission, to technically not be 'canon' since FemShep is the canon-story.

Just wanted to say this is actually the opposite of what they've said. What they've always said is there is no canon or non-canon.

[Darth Garrus]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

If we lose the PR war, we lose everything.  Is that what you want?  It's not what anybody wants, cause in the end WE lose.  Fall in line and hold it properly!  We CAN make a difference, and according to the experts, we already have.  So let's not give up or lose hope!  Let's do this properly, see what is being offered, and THEN respond.

I'm on your side.  And it's taking a hell of a lot of effort to convince you all of this. 

Man, that's exactly what BW wanted. To release a strawman, pretend that that's what we wanted, and hope that some people would take the bait. Sadly, Forbes did. And you... but the point is that they got what they wanted. They release a strawman, say that they did it for the fans, and after we keep saying that that was not what we wanted, they will say that we are never satisfied.
 
The only sad part is that some of the press bought it (and you). We don't want it. We want new endings. And BW knows it. They just released a strawman and will try to win an ficticious argument against it. As you are.

This, my friends, is called the strawman fallacy. Nobody did what we wanted. What is about to be released has nothing to do with what we wanted. May everyone know it.

[Jetfire99]

DJBare wrote...

I may not agree with everything that MetalCargo states, but he is definitely right about one thing, we NEED the press on our side, to the general public we are still "Just" gamers; heck you even see it posted quite often on the forums "get a life, it's just a game"; and that's the attitude the general public continues to view us with, now we might consider the other side is playing unfair, but that does not mean we should do the same thing.
You are angry and that in my opinion is justified, however what is not justified is attacking before we have all the facts, that will just come back and bite us on the arse, the press don't play by fair rules, they go with the story that gets them the ratings.

You are right both of you on the point of we must remain civil. We can not go out of control. We can not behave like an angry mob over the announcement. We need to keep our selves civi and gather more facts about what's going on. If we go off letting our anger get the better of us? We lose our support in the media and we end up losing everything we been fighting for. 

[Laterali]

donmaciu wrote...

Laterali wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that the only story that makes sense in this game is the Genophage Cure storyline. i was thinking about Samara's sidequest. In ME2, she says their are three Ardat Yakshi in existence, then 6 months later, there is a monastary chock-a-full of Ardat-Yakshi. Then she says that she'll join you if you're willing to accept her, you say welcome aboard, and then you get an email telling you she actually isn't joining you... WTF!!!

Was a drunken elephant in charge of continuity in this game or what? Bad writers...

I feel like there should be two robots and a guy's silhouettes sitting in front of the screen while I played...

Were there more than two Ardat-Yakshi there?
I thought the rest of asari there was from the commando.

If you examined all the computers and pda's, there are far more than just Rila and Falere. There were two talking about veina, or whatever that movie was called, there was one that was all crazy emotionally, and there was Yanis which the Matriarch thought was seducing the guards. That's just off the top of my head.

[RussianOrc]

More lies for you guys.
http://www.computera...initive-ending/
This is a pre release statement adressing the ending...
My favorite line is "there's an interesting sequence after the end credits".

[LethesDeep]

MetalCargo999 wrote...
Exactly.  And that isn't entitlment, that is being presumptuous.  If they manage a good explanation that actually does justify the ending, then your only argument will be a subjective one, and not an objective one.  That scares you.  And I understand that.  I really didn't like the ending either, primarily for the way Starchild's logic contradicts Shepard's possible experience with the Geth/Quarian war and EDI.  But if they can correct their storytelling errors and justify the ending, then even though I won't like the endings, I can at least say that Mass Effect got a proper ending, even if I don't like it.  Not only that, but there is a small chance (albeit very small) that they might make enough changes to make the endings good. 

But then... that's just specualtion. 

OK, try this one on for size: My first playthrough of ME3 I was trying to lose. I wanted to see characters I had come to care for die, worlds I was fighting for burn, ally races exterminated, Harbinger taunting me in my last moments, the whole shebang. Why? Because BioWare said pre-release that would be an option, but in the end Commander Troll Shepard; the ugliest, dumbest leader to ever live managed to win due to a half-***ed deus ex machina (it was half-***ed cuz the starchild didn't fix everything himself).

Now tell me. How is this new DLC supposed to make me feel better? Explaining the current endings doesn't give me what I was asking for, it just rubs the salt into the wound.

[MetalCargo999]

Darth Suetam wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

If we lose the PR war, we lose everything.  Is that what you want?  It's not what anybody wants, cause in the end WE lose.  Fall in line and hold it properly!  We CAN make a difference, and according to the experts, we already have.  So let's not give up or lose hope!  Let's do this properly, see what is being offered, and THEN respond.

I'm on your side.  And it's taking a hell of a lot of effort to convince you all of this. 

Man, that's exactly what BW wanted. To release a strawman, pretend that that's what we wanted, and hope that some people would take the bait. Sadly, Forbes did. And you... but the point is that they got what they wanted. They release a strawman, say that they did it for the fans, and after we keep saying that that was not what we wanted, they will say that we are never satisfied.
 
The only sad part is that some of the press bought it (and you). We don't want it. We want new endings. And BW knows it. They just released a strawman and will try to win an ficticious argument against it. As you are.

This, my friends, is called the strawman fallacy. Nobody did what we wanted. What is about to be released has nothing to do with what we wanted. May everyone know it.

I haven't "bought into" anything since there isn't anything to buy into except for a promise for an explanation of the current ending.  If we have more information and find out that the explanation is objectively flawed (as the current one is) then we can present ACTUAL arguments against it instead of speculative ones that the press won't buy and will turn against us for.

A promise for a potential strawman or "faux olive branch" has been presented.  Since we don't have enough information to counter it we have to play smart, just like Bioware/EA is. 

[Ihatebadgames]

Laterali wrote...

"I have 3 daughters, there are 3 Ardat-Yakshi in existence today. It is as it sounds" Exact quote from ME2.

Then she said something about having to go to backwater worlds to find more of them.Holding the line.

[Aviditie]

Theresa: I think your solution is eloquent and full of artistic integrity!

[Chewbacca99]

Folks, I would like to point out that from everything I have witnessed, EA and Bioware are not companies to admit failure and apologize, it's just not going to happen. Did you guys see their response to winning the worst company in America award from consumerist? The PR savvy thing would have been to ignore it, or to (best situation) acknowledge that there may be areas of improvement they need to do and they are working on it. Do they do anything close? No, they act defensive and invoke the names of last winders of the award in an attempt to deflect attention.

Similarly, we are dreaming if we thunk we can get them to apologize and completely rewrite the endings, a la bethesda. If its not clear already, they are NOT bethesda. Based on their statements to date (esp. the good Dr's invocation of "artistic integrity) backing down would have resulted in loss of face which is not an option for these guys.

So... Until we understand exactly what they intend to include in the DLC, we should continue to drum home what we want, and if the DLC falls short, I for one am bailing. I have already removed DA2, ME3 and Origin from my PC, I will read fan reviews of the DLC and if not up to snuff, I'm not letting another EA or BW game back.

[Nilofeliu]

Darth Suetam wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

If we lose the PR war, we lose everything.  Is that what you want?  It's not what anybody wants, cause in the end WE lose.  Fall in line and hold it properly!  We CAN make a difference, and according to the experts, we already have.  So let's not give up or lose hope!  Let's do this properly, see what is being offered, and THEN respond.

I'm on your side.  And it's taking a hell of a lot of effort to convince you all of this. 

Man, that's exactly what BW wanted. To release a strawman, pretend that that's what we wanted, and hope that some people would take the bait. Sadly, Forbes did. And you... but the point is that they got what they wanted. They release a strawman, say that they did it for the fans, and after we keep saying that that was not what we wanted, they will say that we are never satisfied.
 
The only sad part is that some of the press bought it (and you). We don't want it. We want new endings. And BW knows it. They just released a strawman and will try to win an ficticious argument against it. As you are.

This, my friends, is called the strawman fallacy. Nobody did what we wanted. What is about to be released has nothing to do with what we wanted. May everyone know it.

I know it, you know it, and thousands of others know it. Even people who haven't played ME3 know it by now. This will not go way, nor it will blow over. I am making a stand here and I am saying no more Bioware or EA products for me EVER again...

However, it got to a point where I actually just don't care any longer about Mass Effect. It's sad, but it's the truth...

[Mbednar]

Give Bioware a chance to present the Epilogue at least.  Here's a prototype as to what you might expect.  Just pretend there are cinematics (Bioware said additional cinematics would be coming).

Although its Fan Made, its VERY well done and detailed.  It keeps the Star Child canon, but it does provide a LOT of closure.

Fan Made Epilogue Generator

Thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11005521/1

Website: shannon.users.sonic.net/masseffect/

Give the creator some Feedback if ya can.  Some great work went into this.

Modifié par Mbednar, 06 avril 2012 - 04:55 .

[Darth Garrus]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

I haven't "bought into" anything since there isn't anything to buy into except for a promise for an explanation of the current ending.  If we have more information and find out that the explanation is objectively flawed (as the current one is) then we can present ACTUAL arguments against it instead of speculative ones that the press won't buy and will turn against us for.

A promise for a potential strawman or "faux olive branch" has been presented.  Since we don't have enough information to counter it we have to play smart, just like Bioware/EA is. 

Soooo, you won't just drop it, right? Not until everyone agrees with you?

You still don't get it? The explanation can't be good or bad, when no explanation is needed!!! The problem is what they think needs an explanation. So, if it doesn't need an explanation, no explanation can be good (or bad)!

So, if you give me an explanation that wasn't needed, you are arguing against something that wasn't on the table in the first place. So, yes. It is a strawman!!! 

I don't need to wait to hear an explanation. I don't need an explanation. So, it can be a good or a bad one. It doesn't matter.

Dangerously close to a tautology by explaining again, I'll say that the new content can be beautiful; great; emotionally nice; bring a better taste to the mouth; anything. It still won't matter, since it was not what I wanted. It's accepting less than what we wanted.

[Ihatebadgames]

I can never get the Epiloque Generator to work.But glad someone is taking up the slack biowre left in the games.