101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuqi]

And people wonder why pokemon is so succsessful..

[Abram730]

sabere wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

kingsims wrote...

They could pull themselves out of a hole with DA3. If they return to their old style RPG's I ll support them if they head in the right direction. If not well my money goes else where. I don't trust review sites any more after DA2. And you shouldn't trust them for Mass Effect 3.

Hell skyrm proved review site are worthless.  Looked at what a bugged POS that game is.

Sure, Skyrim has its share of bugs, but for an open world game, it's pretty to look at traveling across their world.  Their combat system stinks and their quests could be better, but the reviews about the graphics being really nice were pretty accurate imo.

One of my biggest complaints about skyrim was the graphics.. The twitchy blocky shadows, horrible lighting.. very little change since oblivion.. It still uses oblivion code.  They didn't even compile it right for PC.

What they have is good tools to turn out a crap load of content... large maps ext..
I don't feel cheated or anything, but they should improve their engine.

[Jackal7713]

NaPo1eon wrote...

Urdnot Grim wrote...

NaPo1eon wrote...

Yes, but realistically speaking, in a mere few days this thread has exploded in popularity among people like myself who cancelled their pre-orders because we aren't in denial.

Now.

Imagine they confirmed that those endings are the real deal (Which we know they are.)
Then all of the people in denial or saying, "wait and play first!" would stop being oblivious and our numbers would quadruple.

That would be a sizable loss.

They have hundreds of thousands of fans, if not more. A few hundred people complaining on BSN isn't going to do much to hurt them.

With DA 2 and now the endings of ME 3, they are creating a track record to lose a nice fraction of that fanbase.  
Short-term, it'll effect them barely.
They've already hurt themselves for future sales, but I dare them to make the same mistake again.  Then even the people in denial will be wiser next time.

Your right about that NaPo1eon. You can only upset your core fan base so much, before they stop supporting your products. It will be interesting to see what transpires after launch. If it turns out they lied to their fanbase about the importance of choices only to take it away at the final moment, well...

[dizzymonkey_bio]

sabere wrote...

Abram730 wrote...



Yes there IS something HEROIC in being willing to die for what you believe in.  If you can't imagine it then there must be nothing you feel is worth dying for.  Not even the entire galaxy.

What would the Mass effect universe look like if it was only your thinking?
Geth wouldn't be free because that would involve death... Life > freedom.
Nobody would fight the reapers as they'd all be in line to get indoctrinated.. Life > freedom
Sheperd would of quit as soon as people started shooting at him.  These people mean business lets go home before somebody gets hurt..  Every man for himself!!!  run!!!

I don't think there's anything wrong with what you've said.  In fact, it makes perfect sense.  But what I think most people here are displeased about is the fact that we all play these immersive RPG games to escape for a few hours from the real world.  Many people even get attached to their characers almost like sports fans get attached to a team, rooting them on to victory.  Just like in sports, we can't win them all, but it would be nice to have at least the possibility to make it to the end and come out a winner. 

I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price.  

Being the hero in games like this allow you to kill the baddies, get the girl and eat the cake.  In short, the fantasy for many is achieving the unrealistic victory where the player is spared the personal pain for the most part (assuming the player jumps through all the hoops to meet all the goals).

Beyond that, the first 2 games set this same tone.  ME1 you lose someone but the player is allowed to choose the character they like less (minimal personal impact).  ME2 you go on a suicide mission supposedly but you can get out without losing a single person.  Allowing for overcoming the negative personal impact in the first 2 games is a wild break from the reported dark and negative results of ME3.  

So if I player works on a character based on the assumption nurtured by ME1 and 2 and then finds their work to the assumed goal in ME3 (happy ending) is all in vain then naturally frustration is the result.

[Yuqi]

Oh look it's the DA2 ****storm allover again.

[Jackal7713]

Abram730 wrote...

sabere wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

kingsims wrote...

They could pull themselves out of a hole with DA3. If they return to their old style RPG's I ll support them if they head in the right direction. If not well my money goes else where. I don't trust review sites any more after DA2. And you shouldn't trust them for Mass Effect 3.

Hell skyrm proved review site are worthless.  Looked at what a bugged POS that game is.

Sure, Skyrim has its share of bugs, but for an open world game, it's pretty to look at traveling across their world.  Their combat system stinks and their quests could be better, but the reviews about the graphics being really nice were pretty accurate imo.

One of my biggest complaints about skyrim was the graphics.. The twitchy blocky shadows, horrible lighting.. very little change since oblivion.. It still uses oblivion code.  They didn't even compile it right for PC.

What they have is good tools to turn out a crap load of content... large maps ext..
I don't feel cheated or anything, but they should improve their engine.

Ps 3 users have or had major memory issues, game breaking main quests, etc. From what I saw on their forums they still have alot of these issues across all platforms. This also happened with FO3 and FONV and they never fixed it. Same thing happened with Skyrim on all platforms and some how they got GOTY from a number of reviewers.

[Abram730]

Urdnot Grim wrote...

NaPo1eon wrote...

With all the bad PR they are getting from these leaks, it's nothing but absolutely stupid to not comment on it, if they are false.

Reason they aren't, is to prevent pre-order cancellations.

Common sense is aweeeeesome.

They're already filled to the brim in pre-orders, and tons more people have been trying to do so, so I doubt they'd lose much in that direction; there are plenty of people who don't know about the leaks - as far as the endings anyway, after all.

The 360 CE is selling for $100 - $160 on ebay due to being sold out.  Demand > supply.

[Exia001]

NaPo1eon wrote...

Yes, but realistically speaking, in a mere few days this thread has exploded in popularity among people like myself who cancelled their pre-orders because we aren't in denial.

Now.

Imagine they confirmed that those endings are the real deal (Which we know they are.)
Then all of the people in denial or saying, "wait and play first!" would stop being oblivious and our numbers would quadruple.

That would be a sizable loss.

Oh Im bummed out about the endings to be sure

bu that doesnt mean I can't enjoy the rest

[sabere]

Modifié par sabere, 02 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

I know a lot of people here dislike Gears but I thought it was ok and had some compelling moments especially in Gears 3. The ending in Gears 3 was bittersweet because the world was in ruins, Marcus's closest friend / brother even and his father were dead. He lost his father all over again. The Locust who you may have started to gain compassion for, were dead. The last human city was dead, most humans were dead.

At the end Anya is there with him and the remainder of his buddies, and Anya tells him she'll be there for him. It's not cheesy, it's gentle, she holds his hand.

That is what most people wanted for Mass Effect 3 in their idealistic ending. They expected the universe to be in ruins whatever they did but were hoping they could reduce some of that (which you can to a degree, you can affect the state of Earth and other homeworlds (which are the only things that have a chance of surviving after the relays are shut down).

If Gears 3 was Mass Effect 3, you'd have reached that ending only to have Marcus sitting on the beach looking at the ruins and the massive loss, when a sink hole just randomly opens up, Marcus's whole squad including Anya - the last people that were connecting him to the world, fall through. Marcus doesn't know if they are dead or alive. Then it cuts to a cutscene of them pulling themselves out of the rubble underground, with no apparent way out, so they will probably starve. Credits roll. It's unneccessary torture to the player.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 02 mars 2012 - 09:42 .

[Jackal7713]

Pr3ying M4nt15 360 wrote...

I know a lot of people here dislike Gears but I thought it was ok and had some compelling moments especially in Gears 3. The ending in Gears 3 was bittersweet because the world was in ruins, Marcus's closest friend / brother even and his father were dead. He lost his father all over again. The Locust who you may have started to gain compassion for, were dead. The last human city was dead, most humans were dead.

At the end Anya is there with him and the remainder of his buddies, and Anya tells him she'll be there for him. It's not cheesy, it's gentle, she holds his hand.

That is what most people wanted for Mass Effect 3 in their idealistic ending. They expected the universe to be in ruins whatever they did but were hoping they could reduce some of that (which you can to a degree, you can affect the state of Earth and other homeworlds (which are the only things that have a chance of surviving after the relays are shut down).

If Gears 3 was Mass Effect 3, you'd have reached that ending only to have Marcus sitting on the beach looking at the ruins and the massive loss, when a sink hole just randomly opens up, Marcus's whole squad including Anya - the last people that were connecting him to the world, fall through. Marcus doesn't know if they are dead or alive. Then it cuts to a cutscene of them pulling themselves out of the rubble underground, with no apparent way out, so they will probably starve. Credits roll. It's unneccessary torture to the player.

 As it was joked about in anothe post " It will be Vega staring as Ned Beatty in Deliverance planet"

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

To put it another way, as far as I'm concerned. There should be 3 variables for the Normandy based on your prior actions and war assets and it should be really hard to get the best one, Crew crashes on Earth and survives - Shepard crew reunion assuming shepard survived otherwise just crew, Crew crashes on remote unknown world, Normany is blown up in space.

They don't even have to have VO or dialog for this idealistic and simple ending, they just have to show a scene with Shepard (or not) sitting around a table or campfire on a ruined Earth with his LI and crew. Fade to credits, show text epilogue of what crew moved onto.

There is already enough bad things going on in the ending. And to get the idealistic ending where Normandy crew survives and Shepard survives you should have to work really really hard. Otherwise basically you'd end up having to sacrifice yourself to save them back to Earth more easily.


Why couldn't we have something like that?

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 02 mars 2012 - 09:51 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

But seriously. ME has been getting darker, so this really shouldnt' have surprised anyone.
The "cake nad eat it" crowd has gotten their fill in ME1 and ME2.

Ofcourse, I'm not sure exactly who will be glad with ME3 endings, but the lack of happlily ever after scenario doesn't bother me at all. It's the shi**y writing that bothers me.

The crew can die in a million different ways, as long as it's written in a good way.

[Frozen83]

I still rely on good old capitalistic greed in EA managers. I mean, i can imagine the conversation between a writer and a manager.

"I want artistic freedom, I want an epic fail, doom, gloom, etc."
"Yes, of course you want... Do you want your next paycheck? Then give me some sunshine, rainbows and bunnies! A lot of players don't want a bad ending. Now get back to work!"

If the endings are bad and stay bad - the game will sell, at first, but then people will start talking, "yeah, great music, the blood is sooo realistic, but it has crappy end, buy something else". And then ME3 sales would plummet. Besides, they will want to sell DLCs and what else not, I wouldn't want to buy that if it only prolongs the game with no satisfactory ending for me (I know some people like the endings and I can understand and appreciate them and their arguments, still, for me personally, one sunshine, rainbows, bunnies would be nice).  M.

[Garrus30]

NaPo1eon wrote...

Urdnot Grim wrote...

NaPo1eon wrote...

Yes, but realistically speaking, in a mere few days this thread has exploded in popularity among people like myself who cancelled their pre-orders because we aren't in denial.

Now.

Imagine they confirmed that those endings are the real deal (Which we know they are.)
Then all of the people in denial or saying, "wait and play first!" would stop being oblivious and our numbers would quadruple.

That would be a sizable loss.

They have hundreds of thousands of fans, if not more. A few hundred people complaining on BSN isn't going to do much to hurt them.

With DA 2 and now the endings of ME 3, they are creating a track record to lose a nice fraction of that fanbase.  
Short-term, it'll effect them barely.
They've already hurt themselves for future sales, but I dare them to make the same mistake again.  Then even the people in denial will be wiser next time.

The thing about DA2 was, that it literally was 50 % change  to DA:O, the dark spawn had a changed appearnce (they were white), the overall graphics was downgraded, the interface and items (icon) was simplified, the inventory was simplified, the combat areas are mostly the same (especially the dungeons copy & paste), 
DA2 only has one big city
 and maybe some other Issues I can't remember and that's it.

I played it only halfway, but I can say the first half of DA2 has major changes than DA:O and that doesn't apply to ME3 to ME1-2 as what we've seen.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

We know they're setting up for an MMO, but the people who want their "realism" got it.

Those who wanted their happier ending with Shepard and crew on Earth, got the shaft.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

But seriously. ME has been getting darker, so this really shouldnt' have surprised anyone.
The "cake nad eat it" crowd has gotten their fill in ME1 and ME2.

Ofcourse, I'm not sure exactly who will be glad with ME3 endings, but the lack of happlily ever after scenario doesn't bother me at all. It's the shi**y writing that bothers me.

The crew can die in a million different ways, as long as it's written in a good way.

But ever since ME2 the tone has been pushed more towards the mainstream and it was already mainstreamish to begin with, Shepard is outright ressurected in Mass Effect 2 with no regard to the fact that there would be no way to recover his mind realistically. Ships somehow move between the galaxy map exploring planets without taking 20-30 years to move between them. It's like Star Wars now, as in there are certain things that aren't explained and don't need to be explained. So to have an ending like ME3 is just silly.

It's not a realistic ending anyway. Just like Star Wars has the force. Mass Effect has the ability to send out magic energy waves and has spikes that can instantly turn people cybernetic/husk/whatever.

So if you can have that, why can't we have an ending that doesn't involve shutting down the relays, or at least a scene where the Normandy doesn't get randomly thrown off to another planet.

You can't keep hiding behind reality because it's not a realistic universe. It's an action movie atmosphere with choices and most people will expecting a reasonably good ending if they tried hard enough. Like one where they can sit around a table with their crew at the end, ruined universe or not.

Modifié par Pr3ying M4nt15 360, 02 mars 2012 - 09:59 .

[Jackal7713]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

We know they're setting up for an MMO, but the people who want their "realism" got it.

Those who wanted their happier ending with Shepard and crew on Earth, got the shaft.

Don't forget "BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."

So what would you call the current "bittersweet" endings Mr. Gamble?

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

Jackal7713 wrote...

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

We know they're setting up for an MMO, but the people who want their "realism" got it.

Those who wanted their happier ending with Shepard and crew on Earth, got the shaft.

Don't forget "BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised."

So what would you call the current "bittersweet" endings Mr. Gamble?

I guess they figured that we'd basically be so disastified that we'd eventually go back and just accept the Merge ending which they have down as perfect and is the closest thing available to an ideal solution to the galaxy at the expense of railroading the things most people actually cared about.

Probably find out the next Mass Effect, MMO or not is set in the past anyway.

[dizzymonkey_bio]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

dizzymonkey_bio wrote...
I think this is a useful insight into why the lack of a "happy" ending is such a point of frustration for some.  Many people play games as a way to escape from reality - the reality that in real life you often can make the right choices and still pay a terrible price. 

And there are those who play the game to get imemrsed into the WORLD. Not the fantasy, but the world. And they want that world to feal real.

Getting the cake and eating it too would frustrate them. You can't have it all.

But seriously. ME has been getting darker, so this really shouldnt' have surprised anyone.
The "cake nad eat it" crowd has gotten their fill in ME1 and ME2.

Ofcourse, I'm not sure exactly who will be glad with ME3 endings, but the lack of happlily ever after scenario doesn't bother me at all. It's the shi**y writing that bothers me.

The crew can die in a million different ways, as long as it's written in a good way.

Which is exactly why I said "some".  For a game that hypes "your choice matters" as much as it does, not allowing for the "cake and eat it" crowd makes no sense and runs counter to the previous theme set in place during the first 2 games.  I would be equally dissapointed if there were not some terrible endings to match the player choices that warranted it.  Failure on either spectrum is a betrayal of the epic choice mechanism that Bioware has pushed IMO.

[marstor05]

lost = the plane crashed and they all died.

ME3 = they beat the reapers, the Normandy crashed and they all died (eventually)

err.....