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Modifié par Rob_K1, 02 mars 2012 - 05:29 .
humes spork wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
I think folks just don't realize how serious war is when you're already dealing with a force this omnipotent.
That's the thing, the Reapers really aren't omnipotent. They're actually kind of stupid, one-trick ponies when you think about it.
Guest_Urdnot Grim_*
Bigdoser wrote...
A simple solution to this whole problem is simply make the Normandy crash on earth. I think people don't want the ending itself to be changed I think people want what happens to the Normandy to be changed cause the Normandy making a colony is bloody dumb imo.
davidshooter wrote...
To understand an IGN review of a AAA title you have to remember that the scale is 7-10
7 anything means it's absolute garbage
8 anything means it's kind of a turd
9.0 - 9.4 means it's a pretty good game
9.5 and up means it's very good.
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Elite Midget wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Gexora wrote...
I have just had this thought which almost crashed my hopes.
In the supposedly leaked script which seems legit, Garrus is defenitely in the position of command (he even salutes you), and so, I think, is Tali (with turian and quarian forces if they survived, respectively). So may it be that you are forced to leave them with, eh, main force?
I am not ready to believe BW pulling the colony crap with too loved characters obviously starving to death, but like that... who knows.
The script was legit, but they said they'd changed portions of the things happening in it. I think folks just don't realize how serious war is when you're already dealing with a force this omnipotent. I think the ending, as far as we know about it from the available data, is perfectly realistic, and to be honest, I'm tired of the hollywood style endings where everybody lives and conquers the ridiculously powerful enemy with cheap deus ex machinas. In a war like this, there's bound to be sacrifices. If there is a magical seventh ending, however, that shows them al surviving as rumors claim, then it's definitely not going to be easy to get.
I was in the Army for a time and will gladly return when I can get my legs working in top condition again. My step brother is a Marine, my twin is joining the navy, and my older brother is also joining the navy. My father was in the navy also and can no longer ues his hands fully due to his many years he had served. I know war and sacrifice(I grew up with my Father always gone every year or so until he quit and my mother eventually left him) fairly well and I want some of you to know that yes war is a terrible thing but wars HAVE been won before with a good ending.
I have relatives who've served as well. One in fact, served in Nam. He's half crazy, but he's living a stable life with a good family. Technically, destroying the Reapers IS a good ending; losing FTL abilities, while a major setback, is still practically a consequence that I can live with, because the galaxy will always be able to rebuild them again, even if it takes hundreds or thousands of years. Besides I see that as an obvious reference to an older sci fi film - "the day the earth stood still".
Guest_Urdnot Grim_*
cerberus1701 wrote...
humes spork wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
I think folks just don't realize how serious war is when you're already dealing with a force this omnipotent.
That's the thing, the Reapers really aren't omnipotent. They're actually kind of stupid, one-trick ponies when you think about it.
They are very powerful in terms of brute destructive force (and self-confidence) but they aren't even close to omnipotent. If they were Shep never would have pushed them back in the first game.
They aren't that bright.
They've spent epochs doing the same thing over and over: Wait for biological beings evolve enough to find the Citadel and the MRs, hit their doomsday switch, come in through the Citidel gate and spend the next century culling the populace.
Apparently this worked consistently because no race was ever quite advanced *enough* to fight back and was never particularly curious about why all these "gifts" were just sitting there, or curious to see what made the Citadel run.
With the Protheans, they waited too long. The Protheans sowed the seeds of the Reaper's destruction by disrupting the next culling and warning the next cycle of life.
This happens and the Reapers really don't seem to know how to respond to it. They aren't smart enough to, say, resort to subterfuge, incite the races into war, weaken them for a few years, and then come in and mop up. All they know how to respond is to start abducting whole colonies...or just start pounding Earth.
Brute force, attention grabbing, enemy-unifying, and not very bright acts.
Modifié par Urdnot Grim, 02 mars 2012 - 05:35 .
Guest_Urdnot Grim_*
Elite Midget wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Elite Midget wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Gexora wrote...
I have just had this thought which almost crashed my hopes.
In the supposedly leaked script which seems legit, Garrus is defenitely in the position of command (he even salutes you), and so, I think, is Tali (with turian and quarian forces if they survived, respectively). So may it be that you are forced to leave them with, eh, main force?
I am not ready to believe BW pulling the colony crap with too loved characters obviously starving to death, but like that... who knows.
The script was legit, but they said they'd changed portions of the things happening in it. I think folks just don't realize how serious war is when you're already dealing with a force this omnipotent. I think the ending, as far as we know about it from the available data, is perfectly realistic, and to be honest, I'm tired of the hollywood style endings where everybody lives and conquers the ridiculously powerful enemy with cheap deus ex machinas. In a war like this, there's bound to be sacrifices. If there is a magical seventh ending, however, that shows them al surviving as rumors claim, then it's definitely not going to be easy to get.
I was in the Army for a time and will gladly return when I can get my legs working in top condition again. My step brother is a Marine, my twin is joining the navy, and my older brother is also joining the navy. My father was in the navy also and can no longer ues his hands fully due to his many years he had served. I know war and sacrifice(I grew up with my Father always gone every year or so until he quit and my mother eventually left him) fairly well and I want some of you to know that yes war is a terrible thing but wars HAVE been won before with a good ending.
I have relatives who've served as well. One in fact, served in Nam. He's half crazy, but he's living a stable life with a good family. Technically, destroying the Reapers IS a good ending; losing FTL abilities, while a major setback, is still practically a consequence that I can live with, because the galaxy will always be able to rebuild them again, even if it takes hundreds or thousands of years. Besides I see that as an obvious reference to an older sci fi film - "the day the earth stood still".
What Bioware is failing at here is that Heroes don't always die for the cause or have to die for it to give the cause meaning. It's easy to die, living is the hardest thing to do after some of the things you see and decisions you're forced to make. The Medal of Honor is usually handed to the dead too but there have been living breathing men and women in uniform that received it without death.
Modifié par Urdnot Grim, 02 mars 2012 - 05:36 .
Rob_K1 wrote...
You might want to check out this link here, too, in the hopes it helps out:
Spoiler group
I did post what the Something Awful guy did say earlier, but it doesn't seem like many people took notice. Anyways, just scroll down the page a bit until you see a link to what the Something Awful guy said, along with another user's interpretation of the ending.
The people in the spoiler seem to say it's brightened their day anyway.
Modifié par Capeo, 02 mars 2012 - 05:35 .
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Of course heroes don't always die, but some of them do, and given this situation, it's highly likely they could. Of course, that doesn't mean they would, but I'm certain just as many people -since we're such a diverse community - would be arguing the merits of them surviving, just like we're doing right now. I kinda like the way this dialogue is going.
wildannie wrote...
I rememeber it being said that players will really have to work to get the best ending. If that 'best' ending feels like a loss where's the satisfaction in acheiving it.
It seems to me that while the endings provide victory of sorts for the galaxy, they only deliver loss for Shepard and the Crew.
"It's going to make some people angry. But that's part of it, right? " - Mike Gamble
No Mike, it's not part of it. Making your fans angry with a choice of endings that don't include a remotely happy one is not part of the fun, its no fun at all.
I can't believe that BW could have been so utterly stupid to do this.
I don't play games to get depressed, seriously, I've got that covered in real life.
/rant
Guest_Urdnot Grim_*
Elite Midget wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Of course heroes don't always die, but some of them do, and given this situation, it's highly likely they could. Of course, that doesn't mean they would, but I'm certain just as many people -since we're such a diverse community - would be arguing the merits of them surviving, just like we're doing right now. I kinda like the way this dialogue is going.
Of course some do, that's always the case in war. Though not all do. In a game about choices with the ability to greatly bolster your military forces and readiness it's strange that Bioware couldn't come up with more diverse endings to relect all that extra effort.
wildannie wrote...
I rememeber it being said that players will really have to work to get the best ending. If that 'best' ending feels like a loss where's the satisfaction in acheiving it.
It seems to me that while the endings provide victory of sorts for the galaxy, they only deliver loss for Shepard and the Crew.
"It's going to make some people angry. But that's part of it, right? " - Mike Gamble
No Mike, it's not part of it. Making your fans angry with a choice of endings that don't include a remotely happy one is not part of the fun, its no fun at all.
I can't believe that BW could have been so utterly stupid to do this.
I don't play games to get depressed, seriously, I've got that covered in real life.
/rant
Capeo wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
You might want to check out this link here, too, in the hopes it helps out:
Spoiler group
I did post what the Something Awful guy did say earlier, but it doesn't seem like many people took notice. Anyways, just scroll down the page a bit until you see a link to what the Something Awful guy said, along with another user's interpretation of the ending.
The people in the spoiler seem to say it's brightened their day anyway.
Yeah, this going to be one of those interpretation based things I think. Xio got the impression the crash planet and the epilogue planet were the same from the similarity of the skylines and the implications of the dialog in the epilogue. I can't tell enough personally from the pic Xio put to compare it to the sky in the epilogue. They are framed similarly though. It seems odd to put giant planets in the sky of both scenes if they aren't meant to be the same place. If it is open to enough interpretation that may satisfy some people though.
Modifié par Rob_K1, 02 mars 2012 - 05:47 .
albertalad wrote...
Whatever, BW has painted themselves into a corner now. Their "idiot" endings cannot be changed as copies have been shipped starting a week ago to suppliers in order to be sent to folks on time. Now they're stuck with their own garbage of their own making - BW got exposed by their own stupidity. Even some of the testers they hired felt forced to inform fans of Mass Effect 3 and how bad the ME 3 turned out to be, plus BW's idiocy of the Space disaster came back to bite them in the ****. The moment I saw that clunker I groaned out loud and gave them 2 days at most for photos to appear on Utube. I think I was dead on accurate on that prediction. Even a fool could predict the outcome of that stunt - that alone was an indication of the type of thinking going on at BW. To me at least that alone proved their thinking is so flawed and out of thouch with reality none of them understood the PR nightmare they were directly responsible for and proved in depth by the multiple leaks here. Just as their thinking in the final mission - idiotic, pointless, and so amateurish as to defy any SF logic let alone magic logic.
The characteristic of excessive confidence or arrogance, which leads a person to believe that he or she may do no wrong.
Hubris may be developed after a person encounters a period of success. Corporate executives and traders overcome by hubris may become a liability for their firms. A manager might start making business decisions without fully thinking through the consequences, or a trader may begin taking on excessive risk. In many cases, people overcome by hubris will bring about their own downfall.
Modifié par Rdubs, 02 mars 2012 - 05:50 .
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Elite Midget wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
Of course heroes don't always die, but some of them do, and given this situation, it's highly likely they could. Of course, that doesn't mean they would, but I'm certain just as many people -since we're such a diverse community - would be arguing the merits of them surviving, just like we're doing right now. I kinda like the way this dialogue is going.
Of course some do, that's always the case in war. Though not all do. In a game about choices with the ability to greatly bolster your military forces and readiness it's strange that Bioware couldn't come up with more diverse endings to relect all that extra effort.
Who knows? There might possibly be something being overlooked here, but I had a feeling they'd go this route, especially after Arrival.
Rob_K1 wrote...
Capeo wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
You might want to check out this link here, too, in the hopes it helps out:
Spoiler group
I did post what the Something Awful guy did say earlier, but it doesn't seem like many people took notice. Anyways, just scroll down the page a bit until you see a link to what the Something Awful guy said, along with another user's interpretation of the ending.
The people in the spoiler seem to say it's brightened their day anyway.
Yeah, this going to be one of those interpretation based things I think. Xio got the impression the crash planet and the epilogue planet were the same from the similarity of the skylines and the implications of the dialog in the epilogue. I can't tell enough personally from the pic Xio put to compare it to the sky in the epilogue. They are framed similarly though. It seems odd to put giant planets in the sky of both scenes if they aren't meant to be the same place. If it is open to enough interpretation that may satisfy some people though.
I guess it is going to be. I'm sounding like a broken record here too, but honestly, I think it's rather telling that the people who've actually played the game and aren't just going off text summaries all say they liked the endings. The gamefaqs user, if he is legit, has this to say as well:
Without going into spoilers, the leaks are almost completely accurate.
It fits the tone that is established throughout the adventure. There
were a few particular aspects of the ending that bothered people and,
once again without spoilers, it's not exactly what you think. Don't
stress out about something that is vaguely described until you see it.
The involvement of the ME2 crew is the only thing that slightly
disappointed me, but all have a decent enough role and the new
characters are surprisingly deep. Yes, even James Vega. He won't be a
fan favorite but he's more than he appears.
Gamefaqs
Rob_K1 wrote...
Capeo wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
You might want to check out this link here, too, in the hopes it helps out:
Spoiler group
I did post what the Something Awful guy did say earlier, but it doesn't seem like many people took notice. Anyways, just scroll down the page a bit until you see a link to what the Something Awful guy said, along with another user's interpretation of the ending.
The people in the spoiler seem to say it's brightened their day anyway.
Yeah, this going to be one of those interpretation based things I think. Xio got the impression the crash planet and the epilogue planet were the same from the similarity of the skylines and the implications of the dialog in the epilogue. I can't tell enough personally from the pic Xio put to compare it to the sky in the epilogue. They are framed similarly though. It seems odd to put giant planets in the sky of both scenes if they aren't meant to be the same place. If it is open to enough interpretation that may satisfy some people though.
I guess it is going to be. I'm sounding like a broken record here too, but honestly, I think it's rather telling that the people who've actually played the game and aren't just going off text summaries all say they liked the endings. The gamefaqs user, if he is legit, has this to say as well:
Without going into spoilers, the leaks are almost completely accurate.
It fits the tone that is established throughout the adventure. There
were a few particular aspects of the ending that bothered people and,
once again without spoilers, it's not exactly what you think. Don't
stress out about something that is vaguely described until you see it.
The involvement of the ME2 crew is the only thing that slightly
disappointed me, but all have a decent enough role and the new
characters are surprisingly deep. Yes, even James Vega. He won't be a
fan favorite but he's more than he appears.
Gamefaqs
Urdnot Grim wrote...
cerberus1701 wrote...
humes spork wrote...
Urdnot Grim wrote...
I think folks just don't realize how serious war is when you're already dealing with a force this omnipotent.
That's the thing, the Reapers really aren't omnipotent. They're actually kind of stupid, one-trick ponies when you think about it.
They are very powerful in terms of brute destructive force (and self-confidence) but they aren't even close to omnipotent. If they were Shep never would have pushed them back in the first game.
They aren't that bright.
They've spent epochs doing the same thing over and over: Wait for biological beings evolve enough to find the Citadel and the MRs, hit their doomsday switch, come in through the Citidel gate and spend the next century culling the populace.
Apparently this worked consistently because no race was ever quite advanced *enough* to fight back and was never particularly curious about why all these "gifts" were just sitting there, or curious to see what made the Citadel run.
With the Protheans, they waited too long. The Protheans sowed the seeds of the Reaper's destruction by disrupting the next culling and warning the next cycle of life.
This happens and the Reapers really don't seem to know how to respond to it. They aren't smart enough to, say, resort to subterfuge, incite the races into war, weaken them for a few years, and then come in and mop up. All they know how to respond is to start abducting whole colonies...or just start pounding Earth.
Brute force, attention grabbing, enemy-unifying, and not very bright acts.
No I wouldn't say they're one trick ponies so much as victims to Shepard's incredibly thick plot armor. Secondly, subterfuge is something they're definitely good at. Just look at how they used Saren, and Benezia, and countless others through indoctrination. They even had a backup plan established for the Citadel in the Alpha Relay, and Earth is merely a desperation move as a result of feeling threatened by the potential of humans - unironically - due to Shepard's ability to overcome them.
cerberus1701 wrote...
[...]
Apparently this worked consistently because no race was ever quite advanced *enough* to fight back and was never particularly curious about why all these "gifts" were just sitting there, or curious to see what made the Citadel run.
[...]
Capeo wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
You might want to check out this link here, too, in the hopes it helps out:
Spoiler group
I did post what the Something Awful guy did say earlier, but it doesn't seem like many people took notice. Anyways, just scroll down the page a bit until you see a link to what the Something Awful guy said, along with another user's interpretation of the ending.
The people in the spoiler seem to say it's brightened their day anyway.
Yeah, this going to be one of those interpretation based things I think. Xio got the impression the crash planet and the epilogue planet were the same from the similarity of the skylines and the implications of the dialog in the epilogue. I can't tell enough personally from the pic Xio put to compare it to the sky in the epilogue. They are framed similarly though. It seems odd to put giant planets in the sky of both scenes if they aren't meant to be the same place. If it is open to enough interpretation that may satisfy some people though.
Dead on! This is a game where I was direct promised my choices mattered, the L1s would come to a conslusion, etc., etc., and BW gives me a finger up the - well you get where - I merely want BW to live up to their own promises. Sheppard and his crew plus the L1s making it through - tha's not asking for much. Like you mentioned - I got downer, bills, having to work for a living, and all the other things life throws at us all - yep, I got downer covered without this game. Which of us hasn't? I don't need to pay anyone to get a kick in the read end - if you lived beyond kindergarden at all we get downer for free.wildannie wrote...
I rememeber it being said that players will really have to work to get the best ending. If that 'best' ending feels like a loss where's the satisfaction in acheiving it.
It seems to me that while the endings provide victory of sorts for the galaxy, they only deliver loss for Shepard and the Crew.
"It's going to make some people angry. But that's part of it, right? " - Mike Gamble
No Mike, it's not part of it. Making your fans angry with a choice of endings that don't include a remotely happy one is not part of the fun, its no fun at all.
I can't believe that BW could have been so utterly stupid to do this.
I don't play games to get depressed, seriously, I've got that covered in real life.
/rant
"You can have some kind of ending and victory, but it’ll be a lot more brutal and minimal relative to if you do a lot of stuff. If you really build a lot of stuff and bring people to your side and rally the entire galaxy around you, and you come into the end game with that, then you’ll get an amazing, very definitive ending."
Modifié par Ghost Rider LSOV, 02 mars 2012 - 05:57 .
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