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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#86951
Kyria Nyriese

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Phoenix NL wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Why don't you try to put your head down for a couple more hours sleep?

I'm thinking about it, though last time I did that I stared at the ceiling and my clock for an hour and a half.

It's always worth giving it a shot. If nothing else just close your eyes and let them get some rest Image IPB
I do understand the how frustrating it can be though, you lie there wanting to go to sleep but the more you think about it the more awake you end up being! I find sometimes having a documentary or something on in the background that I'm not really interested in helps me drift off and stop being in my own head so much.

Yeah going to go put on some nature sounds and see if I can't crash for a bit.  Later all :)

#86952
Phoenix NL

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StElmo wrote...

*snip*

lol, I found this rather amusing.

Anyway, I think BioWare should probably take note this thread is over 3.4 thousand pages long...

Lol very good - just to be a nag though can we avoid posting images please. Just put the link in as we don't want a rap across the knuckles from the moderators. Thanks!

#86953
Goodwood

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g_bassi13 wrote...

Okay, I have a question to pose. Why do I keep hearing arguments about the ending of the game posing an "impossible choice", or the "illusion of choice"? I mean, I get why people would cite this as a reason they like the ending, because there's a weird sort of emo, hopeless, artfulness to it (and some people are weird like that). What I don't get is why they cite this as a reason that we should all shut up with the complaining and accept the endings too. I could list a dozen reasons myself as to why I think it is so blatantly wrong, but I thought it better to see what points you guys have.


Excuse me while I put the limes down so I can do this...

This "illusion of choice" argument has only just come to my attention this past evening (it's 4:30a.m. for me), and it kind of threw me off the first time someone commented on it. Now that I think about it, however, it seems almost like the product of another attempt to grasp at straws. I hope you will all forgive me, but I personally don't buy the indoctrination theory and have always advocated for a "refuse" option that would allow the EMS to play out and determine whether or not the Reapers win and continue the cycle...and blah-de-da-de-dah, et cetera, ad nauseum.

To put it bluntly, whenever anyone tries to come up with a reason why you should "shut up and move on" about anything, the best advice I can offer is to just ignore them and keep on trucking. We as humans are social creatures, and part of being a social creature is having a desire to help one another, be it mending something that is broken, giving someone a leg-up, or just being there for a friend in their time of need. This tends to lead us to declaring support for various causes, oftentimes without doing the proper research (the internets are replete with examples of "causes" and "drives"). My girlfriend, for example, has never played any of the Mass Effect games (the only reason she hasn't played them herself is due to lack of a decent PC or a console), but she knows why I like them, likes the concept herself, and is also a writer.

About a week or so ago (maybe less), laughing sherpa girl proposed that this curiously endemic desire of modern hipsters to have everything be "dark" and/or "edgy" is because, since they have had a much easier time of it growing up than previous generations, they haven't had as much occasion to experience what it's really like to lose close relatives or friends, or to experience hardship. While I'm not certain that this is true, there does seem to be enough anecdotal evidence out there to at least grant her thesis some measure of thought. If I had to hazard my own guess, I would admit there's a disproportionate amount of "emo" out there and that those of that subculture tend to interpret anything that isn't "sunshine and butterflies" as "artsy." If anyone wants to just sit back and accept the ending as-is, then that's their option and more power to them for exercising this.

I would say to those who want us to give up and give in: "While I might not know art, I know what I like. So please do not try to define my likes and dislikes for me."

Modifié par Goodwood, 18 avril 2012 - 08:51 .


#86954
Phoenix NL

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Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...
It's always worth giving it a shot. If nothing else just close your eyes and let them get some rest Image IPB
I do understand the how frustrating it can be though, you lie there wanting to go to sleep but the more you think about it the more awake you end up being! I find sometimes having a documentary or something on in the background that I'm not really interested in helps me drift off and stop being in my own head so much.

Yeah going to go put on some nature sounds and see if I can't crash for a bit.  Later all :)

Good luck! *hugs*

#86955
VivaLaWhatsername

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Phoenix NL wrote...

It should be ok, it sounds like the Witcher 2's devs really did listen.


Hmmmm I hope so, I really should try and tone down my excitement for things though.

Gotta admit though that ME3's ending is the first time my excitement was destroyed.

#86956
Psythorn

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Tarnation007 wrote...

Thank you for replying. I'm going to assume I'm not the only one who's not particularly happy about the response, but what can you do? Pity, I haven't touched it since reading about the endings - yep I haven't even finished it (I watched all the endings mind you, so I know what I didn't miss haha), and I can't bring myself to. Oh well, anyone have some recommendations of some great RPGs I could play instead??


I really enjoyed playing Witcher - Assassin of Kings - it's on par with ME from my point of view. I also liked Two Worlds II also it's no match to ME.
Finally I really enjoyed the assasins creed series starting with part 2 and to me it really improved on story telling and game play with every part. It's lacking the RPG element at all but I like the story, cut scenes, gameplay so you might want to give that one a try.

Modifié par Psythorn, 18 avril 2012 - 08:54 .


#86957
Ajna

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Phoenix NL wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Why don't you try to put your head down for a couple more hours sleep?

I'm thinking about it, though last time I did that I stared at the ceiling and my clock for an hour and a half.

It's always worth giving it a shot. If nothing else just close your eyes and let them get some rest Image IPB
I do understand the how frustrating it can be though, you lie there wanting to go to sleep but the more you think about it the more awake you end up being! I find sometimes having a documentary or something on in the background that I'm not really interested in helps me drift off and stop being in my own head so much.


Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

#86958
ld1449

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g_bassi13 wrote...

Okay, I have a question to pose. Why do I keep hearing arguments about the ending of the game posing an "impossible choice", or the "illusion of choice"? I mean, I get why people would cite this as a reason they like the ending, because there's a weird sort of emo, hopeless, artfulness to it (and some people are weird like that). What I don't get is why they cite this as a reason that we should all shut up with the complaining and accept the endings too. I could list a dozen reasons myself as to why I think it is so blatantly wrong, but I thought it better to see what points you guys have.


I personally prefer tragedies and in no way consider myself emo. I also love having to make tough choices in any game that makes me stop and think about things. Fable 2 being a fairly good example of such.

Revive innocents

Revive your family

Get rich.

I admit I would have exchanged the get rich choice with "Immortality" or "Power" or something that I wouldn't have been able to get outside of that choice (because lets face it by the time you got to that point in the game you were already a rich property owner anyway)

It actually made me pause and think for the first two options. I wanted for Sparrow to be happy and have the family back. But I also knew it was completely selfish to just revive the people important to me when thousands or millions had died building the spire.

I had to make a choice that really put me on the spot, so to speak, and I enjoyed it.

Mass effect 3's ending on the other hand has you make a difficult choice, not because you have to morally choose weather to be selfish or sacrificing, but because all three slices of life genuinely SUCK

Option one, control Reapers and Die (how that works I have no idea) but it boils down to you die and you'll never be able to see the people you worked so hard to save again.

Option two, Synthesis and you die. Again. For your character personally, this is just a **** choice. After all your hard work you die with very little catharsis or a feeling of "right" involved.

Option three, kill the reapers, die and kill EDI and Geth as well.

So essentially its Die die die, with a slight variation on what happens afterwards.

Furthermore the events AFTER the game are left so ambiguous that whatever feeling of satisfaction you COULD have gotten out of knowing what came out of your sacrifice simply doesnt exist. Because all your knowledge after Shepard's death just cuts off. BOOM gone. So you literally know nothing of the events after your death. Which is fine in real life but in storytelling as we've seen doesn't exactly work for an audience member who wants to KNOW. Not have it be left up to "speculation for everyone" because then it just forces you to take what bare minimum you know and draw your own conclusions. And considering that everything blew up, also leaves it pretty bleak.

Essentially what I'm getting at is that Tragedy, or Bleak endings need to have a silver lining to work. They NEED to have that faint ray of hope cutting through the darkness so that people can be satisfied that "life will go on" so to speak, if not for the protagonist then at least for the side characters.

Mass effect 3 fails in that regard completely. And the people who say that the endings are fine as is because of how "dark" it is, really don't know literature very well, don't know the ME lore very well and imo are just trying to make themselves feel smart.

#86959
toffeetrooper

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good day all

back with my usuall cup of coffee,

#86960
Phoenix NL

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Ajna wrote...

Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

Hey Ajna! That wouldn't work for me unfortunately, I would end up reading until all hours and not getting any sleep lol.

#86961
VivaLaWhatsername

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Phoenix NL wrote...

Ajna wrote...

Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

Hey Ajna! That wouldn't work for me unfortunately, I would end up reading until all hours and not getting any sleep lol.


I'm the same, when I start reading I don't stop until the book is finished lol.

Listening to music helps me sleep though.

Edit: Not that I need help sleeping, my head hits the pillow and I am out like a log....and I sleep like the dead lol.

Modifié par xHezz90, 18 avril 2012 - 09:04 .


#86962
Goodwood

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classical music helps a lot. Warm milk mixed with a bit of honey also works, so I'm told. But then, I haven't got to worry about insomnia—I've got pills!

Prescription ones.

#86963
Ajna

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Phoenix NL wrote...

Ajna wrote...

Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

Hey Ajna! That wouldn't work for me unfortunately, I would end up reading until all hours and not getting any sleep lol.


Morning Phoenix!  How are you doing?  Yeah that would pose a problem lol, I actually spend most of my day's at work reading, I get through a lot of books...


I would say once you have meditation nailed it's the most effective tool for combating insomnia.  Nailing it however, tends to be the challenge for people lol

Modifié par Ajna, 18 avril 2012 - 09:10 .


#86964
Phoenix NL

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Ajna wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Ajna wrote...

Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

Hey Ajna! That wouldn't work for me unfortunately, I would end up reading until all hours and not getting any sleep lol.


Morning Phoenix!  How are you doing?  Yeah that would pose a problem lol, I actually spend most of my day's at work reading, I get through a lot of books...

I'm good thanks and you? I wish I could spend my days reading lol the closest I get it when I get let loose in a bookstore Image IPB

#86965
Mad_Mass

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Three choices.....its like having three choices of cars to buy except they're exactly the same model with different paint jobs. 

#86966
Ajna

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Phoenix NL wrote...

Ajna wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Ajna wrote...

Try reading Kyria, that usually works for me, not that I need help getting to sleep, but on the odd occassion that's my remedy, that or meditation anyway...:)

Hey Ajna! That wouldn't work for me unfortunately, I would end up reading until all hours and not getting any sleep lol.


Morning Phoenix!  How are you doing?  Yeah that would pose a problem lol, I actually spend most of my day's at work reading, I get through a lot of books...

I'm good thanks and you? I wish I could spend my days reading lol the closest I get it when I get let loose in a bookstore Image IPB


I'm fine thankyou!  Yeah I have an awesome job, I get to read and listen to classical music all day, chilled and out are two words that fit it well! :D

Modifié par Ajna, 18 avril 2012 - 09:20 .


#86967
Goodwood

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G'night everyone! Stay strong and Hold the Limes!

#86968
VivaLaWhatsername

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Goodwood wrote...

G'night everyone! Stay strong and Hold the Limes!


Goodnight! *hugs*

#86969
Phoenix NL

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Goodwood wrote...

G'night everyone! Stay strong and Hold the Limes!

Good night, sleep well!

#86970
DJBare

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BBC News, Mass Effect 3 to get extended ending at no cost to gamers
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Forbes,Fans Victorious: Mass Effect 3 to Expand Ending with Free 'Extended Cut' DLC
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Forbes, The Real Precedent Being Set By Mass Effect 3 Protests
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International Business Times, ‘Mass Effect 3’ Ending: Disappointed Fans Send Bioware 402 Cupcakes In Protest
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Archengeia number 3, Mass Effect 3: Responses to Comments, The Importance of Choice, and The Indoctrination Theory
Archengeia number 4, Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut DLC, The Analogy, and The Choice We Face
Smudboy, Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction Part 1
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#86971
MordiMoro

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There are some days that Bioware are not "the usual pompous" proclamation Twitter, forums etc ...
That are put to work seriously on Ending DLC? Image IPB

Modifié par MordiMoro, 18 avril 2012 - 09:28 .


#86972
evisneffo

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G'night Goodwood!


Nicked this picture from a poor soul reporting a glitch -- no idea what's going on there but depending on how low your opinion of BW/EA is it's kind of amusing ... :whistle:


Mad_Mass wrote...

Three choices.....its like having three choices of cars to buy except they're exactly the same model with different paint jobs. 


You do get a choice of extras though. Would you like your car to come installed with a bomb, a petrol tank full of acid or auto-pilot designed to drive you off a cliff?

Modifié par evisneffo, 18 avril 2012 - 09:29 .


#86973
Phoenix NL

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evisneffo wrote...

G'night Goodwood!


Nicked this picture from a poor soul reporting a glitch -- no idea what's going on there but depending on how low your opinion of BW/EA is it's kind of amusing ... :whistle:

lol that's one of the glitches the recent patch was supposed fix!

#86974
VivaLaWhatsername

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Phoenix NL wrote...

evisneffo wrote...

G'night Goodwood!


Nicked this picture from a poor soul reporting a glitch -- no idea what's going on there but depending on how low your opinion of BW/EA is it's kind of amusing ... :whistle:

lol that's one of the glitches the recent patch was supposed fix!


It is a really really really weird glitch eh?

#86975
g_bassi13

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MordiMoro wrote...

There are some days that Bioware are not "the usual pompous" proclamation Twitter, forums etc ...
That are put to work seriously on Ending DLC? Image IPB

I'm fearing that the pompousness that isn't being let out on twitter is perhaps being chanelled back into the game through the ending DLC, lol.