101103 réponses à ce sujet

[chmarr]

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...

READ THIS

http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

Look.... when you need to write a 3-5 page paper on why the ending makes sense.... You know you did something wrong as a writer/storyteller, and you have to look at your work again. Because somewhere along the line you messed up in the storytelling process.

uuuuhhh i dident write it

Never said you did, I'm sorry if you thought I meant you. 

~bops and steals your cupcake~

[Laterali]

The "Use your imagination" argument is irrelevant and flawed. This isn't dungeons and dragons, where I have to create a character and make up my own dialogue. I don't have some grand wizard telling me I didn't roll high enough to use backstab.

This is a story, with set rules, laws, and storylines that were adhered to for 2 games, and 99% if 1 game. They gave Shepard a voice, they gave him set dialogue, they lead us down a path with a set personality. We didn't get to agree with TIM that control was the correct way to go. Up until the last 5 minutes, Control=Wrong in Shepard's book.

So for them to make an ending where they introduce a Deus Ex Machina in the last few moments to explain something that goes against the entire previous lore, then to leave the ending basically blank, no, my job isn't to fill in their blanks. I paid them to tell me a story, not tell me 99% of a story, and then say, "hey, if you want to know how your choices in this choose your own adventure book pans out, use your own imagination. If you want to know what happened to your crew, the ones we sent so much time telling you about so you'd get attached, just use your own imagination."

It's their responsibility to give us an ending that 1, makes sense and stays true to the rest of the story. 2, doesn't create random plot holes in the last 5 minutes. and 3, if you are going to make it a character driven story, don't leave loose ends or what ifs on what happened to those characters.

As I said, it's not my job to finish their story for them.

[chmarr]

TamiBx wrote...

 @Dynelven
I have a question: why do you care if they release an extended cutscene or not? If you liked the ending or think it was right and you are fine with it, all you have to do is not download the EC. 
Why even bother coming here...? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just curious to what makes people come here and say that we should take the ending as it is, especially when they have already said they are releasing an EC...


*sorry if I sound mean; that is not my intention at all*

TAMI ~glomps~

Modifié par chmarr, 21 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[zarnk567]

chmarr wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...

READ THIS

http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

Look.... when you need to write a 3-5 page paper on why the ending makes sense.... You know you did something wrong as a writer/storyteller, and you have to look at your work again. Because somewhere along the line you messed up in the storytelling process.

uuuuhhh i dident write it

Never said you did, I'm sorry if you thought I meant you. 

~bops and steals your cupcake~

NO!!!! NOT THE CUPCAKE. 

[Kyria Nyriese]

Dynelven wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...
READ THIS
http://galacticpillo...ffect-3-ending/

Look.... when you need to write a 3-5 page paper on why the ending makes sense.... You know you did something wrong as a writer/storyteller, and you have to look at your work again. Because somewhere along the line you messed up in the storytelling process.

Pretty much, I've said it before, if you have to explain your ending to your audience you got your ending wrong.

Actually, it means that with all this ridiculous ending fiasco, they feel they have to explain the ending as some people think it doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not completely happy with the ending either but at the same time I realize that Bioware had a vision of their own,  that they couldn't please everyone, and that they are listening to our feedback.

Constructive citicism.... great. Holding your ear, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH" and refusing to listen to any form of reason..... that's not helpful.

This isn't a matter of they feel the need to explain the ending, it is a straight out fact that the ending makes no sense within the context of the Mass Effect Universe.  I think the best alagory I have seen about it has been LoTR.

Instead of Frodo just throwing the ring into Mt. Doom, he gets three options: Click for Visual demonstration

Destroy the ring - along with all dwarves
Merge the ring - combining all good and evil into a synthesis of govil?
Control the ring - control all evil

In all choices all magic is gone.

[Kyria Nyriese]

TamiBx wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

Ok it's night shift where are all the other regulars?

Playing the Witcher 2...

I'm here, I was just having to put my google fu to use and find an img for a response I had.

[chmarr]

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...
~bops and steals your cupcake~

NO!!!! NOT THE CUPCAKE. 

~flee's holding the cupcake up high~

I HAZ THE NOMS

[zarnk567]

chmarr wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...
~bops and steals your cupcake~

NO!!!! NOT THE CUPCAKE. 

~flee's holding the cupcake up high~

I HAZ THE NOMS

[chmarr]

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

chmarr wrote...
~bops and steals your cupcake~

NO!!!! NOT THE CUPCAKE. 

~flee's holding the cupcake up high~

I HAZ THE NOMS

i am sooooooooo tempted to get a pinkie pie profile piccy now

[Nharia1]

*tac cloak ninja glides in through the open skylight*

Modifié par Nharia1, 21 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[Kyria Nyriese]

Nharia1 wrote...

*tac cloak ninja glides in through the open skylight*

*glances up and sees some shimmering gliding down from the skylight*

HUG ATTACK:devil:

[Darth Garrus]

Dynelven wrote...

Actually, it means that with all this ridiculous ending fiasco, they feel they have to explain the ending as some people think it doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not completely happy with the ending either but at the same time I realize that Bioware had a vision of their own,  that they couldn't please everyone, and that they are listening to our feedback.

Constructive citicism.... great. Holding your ear, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH" and refusing to listen to any form of reason..... that's not helpful.

  Yes, they had a vision. And after it leaked, they changed that "vision". And according to the BW approved documentary, they had no idea about a new ending up to... too late. And the director actually decided to cut many things the writers planned, even for a rushed ending.

I don't know where some people got the idea that the horrible endings were "their vision" from the start. It was not. And what was left, if it means something, means lack of vision. Hell, they even said long ago that the ending wouldn't possibly be something like "A, B, or C". And that's exactly what he got in the end.

No, "vision" had nothing to do with it. The ending is sloppy by any standards. They even started to tweet that "people had no idea what they were planning", but in the end, they aren't planning more than an explanation. Something nobody needs.

And why did you play throughout the games, making hundreds of decisions, and building aliances and companionship? To get to that ending? And spacebrat?

Don't sell yourself too cheap. There's nothing possibly justifiable about those endings. And their attitude on PAX only confirms that. The only "vision" they had was one of hope. Hope that the endings would just make small waves, and people would, like you, just swallow it and go on, bad endings or not. But it didn't happen. And there's nothing wrong about complaining about it.

[Goodwood]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

I'm here, I was just having to put my google fu to use and find an img for a response I had.

There you are! HUG ATTACK!

[Computim]

Nharia1 wrote...

*tac cloak ninja glides in through the open skylight*

*sits proudly in the chair, knowing that his anti-ninja saran-wrap of all openings in the room should work great. He peels back the wrapping and goes to bite down on his icecream sandwich in quiet victory.*

[Kyria Nyriese]

Goodwood wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

I'm here, I was just having to put my google fu to use and find an img for a response I had.

There you are! HUG ATTACK!

WOOT  HUG COUNTERATTCK 

[chmarr]

GLOMPS EVERYONE

[Goodwood]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

I'm here, I was just having to put my google fu to use and find an img for a response I had.

There you are! HUG ATTACK!

WOOT  HUG COUNTERATTCK 

Looks like it's time for a HUG-OFF!

[Goodwood]

chmarr wrote...



GLOMPS EVERYONE

*dodges and resists an urge to trip the tiger*

[Bionic Weapon]

One more thing I had to point out ( I may be getting it all wrong though)

Article said:

3.11 Shepard sympathizes with the Illusive Man

"Shepard remarks after the Catalyst’s comment that the Illusive Man was right in wanting to control the Reapers. Many have taken this to an extreme, saying that Shepard then sympathizes with TIM, and that everything the player had done to fight Cerberus was for nothing. This is false. Sympathy and agreement are two different things."




Indeed they are. Shepard could sympathize with TIM based on he meant well for humanity and wanted to secure a future for the species. Shep throughout the game (ME3 pargon dialouge) asked TIm to join them so he/she saw some good in the man.

But for him to say he was right about control to me isn't sympathizing, but outright saying "Control is in fact a good idea"....  and before that Anderson pretty much said he (TIM) was insane to even think something like that was possible, so all of a sudden Shep is going to agree with TIM over Anderson? Don't see how that makes a lick of sense, but if I'm misinterpeting this let me know.

Modifié par Bionic Weapon, 21 avril 2012 - 03:43 .

[Ihatebadgames]

For those that get their cupcakes stolen,for those that resort to stealing cupcakes and for a game developer that refuses cupcakes.
Take one box Angel food cake put in a ziplock type bag.Add one cake mix any flavor.Mix throughly in the bag.
Put three TableSpoons (of mix)in a microwave safe coffee cup.Add 2 tablespoons of water.Stir well.Put in microwave for one minute.Turn upside down over plate.Tap easy.Put on your chosen color of icing.
Enjoy!!

[Kyria Nyriese]

Goodwood wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

I'm here, I was just having to put my google fu to use and find an img for a response I had.

There you are! HUG ATTACK!

WOOT  HUG COUNTERATTCK 

Looks like it's time for a HUG-OFF!

/hugs /hugs /hugs /hugs /hugs

[sagevallant]

Dynelven wrote...

Actually, it means that with all this ridiculous ending fiasco, they feel they have to explain the ending as some people think it doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm not completely happy with the ending either but at the same time I realize that Bioware had a vision of their own,  that they couldn't please everyone, and that they are listening to our feedback.

Constructive citicism.... great. Holding your ear, screaming "BLAH BLAH BLAH" and refusing to listen to any form of reason..... that's not helpful.

So, wait, are you criticizing Bioware or us? Because this thread is 3500 pages of constructive criticism and us sharing information that has cropped up since the controversy began. The promise of  "an expanded ending" doesn't fulfill the promises of "16 endings". The promise that our choices will affect the ending should not mean "Hey, you helped me in ME1; have some war resources." Starting with more money doesn't count as affecting the ending.

"...they feel they have to explain the ending as some people think it doesn't make any sense at all." Why would they feel it DOES make sense? The Relays certainly APPEAR to explode, yeah? We're told in the DLC for ME2 that when that happens, there's an explosion on the magnitude of a supernova. Shep murdered 300,000 batarians by blowing one up. Why should we assume no one died in the colorful blast of energy?

So the Relays are rendered inopperable, whether or not they actually explode. So the fleets you brought with you starve, right? Earth's the inhabitable planet, it's mostly destroyed. The Turians and Quarians certainly can't eat the food. The Relays are important for traveling from place to place, right?  So they can't get home. But we're supposed to ASSUME that the Krogans didn't just enslave and eat everyone on their way home? That everyone was able to get home? You realize that light speed is virtually NO HELP AT ALL for traveling between solar systems? The closest star to earth, Alpha Centauri, is still four years away at the speed of light.

Okay, so we get beyond both of those. What happened to the people on the Citadel? Dead, right? Nope, we're told via twitter there can be survivors locked away safe and sound. They could lock themselves away safely, we're told. From reaper-fied monstrosities. On a Citadel CONTROLLED BY THE LEADER OF THE REAPERS. The entire time. For some reason, he also wasn't able to just tell the Keepers to let Sovereign through in ME1. Or signal the reaper fleet himself.

Star Child. Plot tumor. Ignoring the memetically redundant logic behind the construction of the Reapers, you would THINK you could try to reason with it. It seems reasonable. It strips the menace out of the Reapers. It denies the building war by bringing out a sad little kid when the whole point up until now was defiance of this super-powerful enemy that was out to destroy all civilizations everywhere. Unstoppable. Where is Harbinger? He's been feuding with Shep. He SPOKE to Shep in an ME2 DLC. He had a smaller part than SOVEREIGN.  I want an ending where TIM is rolling around in Harbinger, convinced that the Reaper is following HIS orders instead of the other way around.

They reaperize Cerberus, we see ONE PIC in ONE CUTSCENE and that's it, after that for all we know they're normal people. Nothing is done with it. It's like they put that in to justify TIM's makeover later. It's bad writing, do something with it. Show us that they're all being controlled, don't just throw it out and do nothing.

[3DandBeyond]

The two best explanations for why we hate the ending.
Understated Nerd Rage video


And California Literary Review
http://calitreview.com/24673

These both put things into perspective and describe most all of the issues that exist within the ending.

Lack of story cohesiveness
Lack of character authenticity
Introduction of random, new "antagonist"
Abandonment of real antagonist
Failure to deliver on the promise of actions and choices determining outcome. And I'm not even talking about a promise CH might have made-I mean the promise implicit in playing 3 games. It led you to believe your choices mattered. They don't.
Introduction of the ABC ending choices (something we were told would not happen). Oops, sorry I mean Red, White, and Blue choices.
Total suspension of reality within the confines of the ME universe-given over completely to Space Magic.
Introduction of flawed "logic" imparted by some supposedly super smart computer kid VI-logic that had already been disproved in the game..
Lack of any emotional decompression/epilogue/denouement/catharsis.
Ruination of any and all replay value of all 3 games.
And much, much more...

[Computim]

3DandBeyond wrote...

The two best explanations for why we hate the ending.
Understated Nerd Rage video


And California Literary Review
http://calitreview.com/24673

These both put things into perspective and describe most all of the issues that exist within the ending.

Lack of story cohesiveness
Lack of character authenticity
Introduction of random, new "antagonist"
Abandonment of real antagonist
Failure to deliver on the promise of actions and choices determining outcome. And I'm not even talking about a promise CH might have made-I mean the promise implicit in playing 3 games. It led you to believe your choices mattered. They don't.
Introduction of the ABC ending choices (something we were told would not happen). Oops, sorry I mean Red, White, and Blue choices.
Total suspension of reality within the confines of the ME universe-given over completely to Space Magic.
Introduction of flawed "logic" imparted by some supposedly super smart computer kid VI-logic that had already been disproved in the game..
Lack of any emotional decompression/epilogue/denouement/catharsis.
Ruination of any and all replay value of all 3 games.
And much, much more...

Nerd Rage!!!! *snickers*

Hadn't see the Cal Lit Review one, Thanks! 

... We really should start considering making a bullet point rebuttal to the random passersby who come in here and make uninformed comments though.  You kinda just made me realize that with your near-bullet list there.

Though, with all the FAQs, rebuttal points, evidence supporting our points of view, and the sheer number of "researchers" we have, we may, accidentally, be the cause of another counter movement to spring up due to the sheer number of articles we'd end up with.... RetakeWikipedia.

[Dynelven]

TamiBx wrote...

 @Dynelven
I have a question: why do you care if they release an extended cutscene or not? If you liked the ending or think it was right and you are fine with it, all you have to do is not download the EC. 
Why even bother coming here...? I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just curious to what makes people come here and say that we should take the ending as it is, especially when they have already said they are releasing an EC...


*sorry if I sound mean; that is not my intention at all*

I'm not taking your post as negative or 'being mean'. Calm discussion is healthy. However, to address your point, I've said time and time again that I'm not completely happy with the ending either, I would've liked more closure, more explanation. However, I both try to keep my opinions constructive and also have become almost as outraged at the flood of sh*t talk on Bioware as those that made insane comments on how terrible the ending was.