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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#88876
Goodwood

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Computim wrote...

Nerd Rage!!!! *snickers*

Hadn't see the Cal Lit Review one, Thanks! 

... We really should start considering making a bullet point rebuttal to the random passersby who come in here and make uninformed comments though.  You kinda just made me realize that with your near-bullet list there.

Though, with all the FAQs, rebuttal points, evidence supporting our points of view, and the sheer number of "researchers" we have, we may, accidentally, be the cause of another counter movement to spring up due to the sheer number of articles we'd end up with.... RetakeWikipedia. :P


Congratulations, Tim, you just volunteered yourself! *drill sergeant glare*

#88877
Laterali

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Bionic Weapon wrote...

One more thing I had to point out ( I may be getting it all wrong though)

Article said:

3.11 Shepard sympathizes with the Illusive Man

"Shepard remarks after the Catalyst’s comment that the Illusive Man was right in wanting to control the Reapers. Many have taken this to an extreme, saying that Shepard then sympathizes with TIM, and that everything the player had done to fight Cerberus was for nothing. This is false. Sympathy and agreement are two different things."




Indeed they are. Shepard could sympathize with TIM based on he meant well for humanity and wanted to secure a future for the species. Shep throughout the game (ME3 pargon dialouge) asked TIm to join them so he/she saw some good in the man.

But for him to say he was right about control to me isn't sympathizing, but outright saying "Control is in fact a good idea"....  and before that Anderson pretty much said he (TIM) was insane to even think something like that was possible, so all of a sudden Shep is going to agree with TIM over Anderson? Don't see how that makes a lick of sense, but if I'm misinterpeting this let me know.






You know what infuriates me? The whole scene with TIM right before that line. TIM is telling Shepard that he's doing it for the betterment of mankind. But Shepard comes right out and says that humans are not ready for that kind of power. So right there, it doesn't matter if Shepard believes TIM is crazy, right, or even if he just sympathizes with TIM. It doesn't matter. Shepard has made his choice, even if it's a choice, It is too dangerous, Humans can't handle that responsibility. Then 5 minutes later, he sees it is infact a choice. Shouldn't matter, Shepard has already said there's no way he'd agree to it.

And that's not Paragons talking, that's paragon, renegade, and every white choice you could make in the dialogue wheel. Shepard gives us no doubt that he'd never choose control no matter what.

At that point, if you choose Control, you are going against everything Shepard stood for and fought against the last 30+ hours. What that shows is when the writers, or writer, got to this point, he was overwhelmed, and started writing himself into a corner.

#88878
Kyria Nyriese

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Goodwood wrote...

Computim wrote...

Nerd Rage!!!! *snickers*

Hadn't see the Cal Lit Review one, Thanks! 

... We really should start considering making a bullet point rebuttal to the random passersby who come in here and make uninformed comments though.  You kinda just made me realize that with your near-bullet list there.

Though, with all the FAQs, rebuttal points, evidence supporting our points of view, and the sheer number of "researchers" we have, we may, accidentally, be the cause of another counter movement to spring up due to the sheer number of articles we'd end up with.... RetakeWikipedia. :P


Congratulations, Tim, you just volunteered yourself! *drill sergeant glare*


LOL that'll learn ya :whistle:

#88879
sagevallant

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Dynelven wrote...

I'm not taking your post as negative or 'being mean'. Calm discussion is healthy. However, to address your point, I've said time and time again that I'm not completely happy with the ending either, I would've liked more closure, more explanation. However, I both try to keep my opinions constructive and also have become almost as outraged at the flood of sh*t talk on Bioware as those that made insane comments on how terrible the ending was.


You're in the wrong thread, broseph. There's no hate here. We're upset, we're let down, we want better.  We need help to get through this. We're more like AA than a seething cauldron of hatred and bitterness.

#88880
Kyria Nyriese

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sagevallant wrote...

Dynelven wrote...
I'm not taking your post as negative or 'being mean'. Calm discussion is healthy. However, to address your point, I've said time and time again that I'm not completely happy with the ending either, I would've liked more closure, more explanation. However, I both try to keep my opinions constructive and also have become almost as outraged at the flood of sh*t talk on Bioware as those that made insane comments on how terrible the ending was.

You're in the wrong thread, broseph. There's no hate here. We're upset, we're let down, we want better.  We need help to get through this. We're more like AA than a seething cauldron of hatred and bitterness.

^^ This.  Most of us come here to be able to just talk to people who feel the same way we do, at least at this point, and to share our experiences and things we find that validate what we feel.  Most everything I put down regarding my feelings on the endings, I've put in my blog and just linked it here when I write it.  I am fairly sure that most of my stuff while quite rambling at times, is pretty much constructive and not just straight out *lalalalallalalala* I can't hear you.

#88881
Computim

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Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Congratulations, Tim, you just volunteered yourself! *drill sergeant glare*


LOL that'll learn ya :whistle:


*Draws his Sword of Delegation*... I dunno what the benefit of being a Commander is around here, everyone's a Commander it seems :?

#88882
Lancane

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We won't get the endings we want or truly deserve, BioWare has sold us out, Hudson has sold us out and Walters has sold us out. They've joined the tendentious corporate machine which has evolved from within the industry as seen with Electronic Arts, Activision and Lucas Arts. The gamers only matter in terms of fiscal intake, until they lose out of the almighty dollar they'll not understand. Sad to imagine the day would come when fellow gaming geeks would sell their fellow gamers out for a profit - and soon the evolution of gaming will change because people are getting fed up with paying top dollar for rushed, gutted and overall lacking games. Personally I'd rather pay top dollar for a well developed console game then to play a cheap five dollar multiplayer online game with ****** poor graphics, but such games will continue to get more popular as more and more games are found lacking regarding the final product.

#88883
Goodwood

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Oh come on Tim, it's not like you weren't looking for something concrete to contribute that'd get repeated ad nauseum! *chortles*

#88884
Computim

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Goodwood wrote...

Oh come on Tim, it's not like you weren't looking for something concrete to contribute that'd get repeated ad nauseum! *chortles*


That's what Bond is for!  ... though he's been off on his hush hush mission on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

I already did my concrete contribution thankyouverymuch... my cell phone barely survived the barrage of text messages before I turned off long distance SMSs rofl. :P

I LERND MA LESUN.

#88885
Kyria Nyriese

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Computim wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Oh come on Tim, it's not like you weren't looking for something concrete to contribute that'd get repeated ad nauseum! *chortles*


That's what Bond is for!  ... though he's been off on his hush hush mission on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

I already did my concrete contribution thankyouverymuch... my cell phone barely survived the barrage of text messages before I turned off long distance SMSs rofl. :P

I LERND MA LESUN.


/snicker

You'd think someone with the name Computim would know better than have his cell number anywhere that people could get it without him giving it to him :P

#88886
TamiBx

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sagevallant wrote...

Dynelven wrote...

I'm not taking your post as negative or 'being mean'. Calm discussion is healthy. However, to address your point, I've said time and time again that I'm not completely happy with the ending either, I would've liked more closure, more explanation. However, I both try to keep my opinions constructive and also have become almost as outraged at the flood of sh*t talk on Bioware as those that made insane comments on how terrible the ending was.


You're in the wrong thread, broseph. There's no hate here. We're upset, we're let down, we want better.  We need help to get through this. We're more like AA than a seething cauldron of hatred and bitterness.


I was about to say that. :lol:
We are really civil here; we're literally sitting around listening to people talk about how they felt about the ending, and why. We are not planning any rebellion/riot, we are not bashing anyone...we actually love the game and support Bioware; we just think the ending wasn't up to Bioware standards and they are addressing it.

You didn't love the ending, neither did we. We are being constructive and so are you, so...why are we even talking about this? :huh:

#88887
TamiBx

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Computim wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Oh come on Tim, it's not like you weren't looking for something concrete to contribute that'd get repeated ad nauseum! *chortles*


That's what Bond is for!  ... though he's been off on his hush hush mission on Her Majesty's Secret Service.

I already did my concrete contribution thankyouverymuch... my cell phone barely survived the barrage of text messages before I turned off long distance SMSs rofl. :P

I LERND MA LESUN.


I still feel sorry for you about that...and can't believe people actually did that :pinched:

#88888
Dynelven

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Darth Suetam wrote...

*snip*

Hope that the endings would just make small waves, and people would, like you, just swallow it and go on, bad endings or not. But it didn't happen. And there's nothing wrong about complaining about it.


As I've said too many times to count, I wasn't very happy with the ending(s) either.

I'm not swallowing anything, I'm simply upset at some of the ridiculous, unfounded complains about the ending. All I've ever called for is constructive criticism instead of rage. That's all.

#88889
Kyria Nyriese

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Dynelven wrote...

Darth Suetam wrote...

*snip*

Hope that the endings would just make small waves, and people would, like you, just swallow it and go on, bad endings or not. But it didn't happen. And there's nothing wrong about complaining about it.

As I've said too many times to count, I wasn't very happy with the ending(s) either.

I'm not swallowing anything, I'm simply upset at some of the ridiculous, unfounded complains about the ending. All I've ever called for is constructive criticism instead of rage. That's all.


We aren't the rage thread, we are the constructive critism thread combined with the support for everyone who doesn't like the endings and a place to discuss it, and connect with like minded people.  Sounds like you should be fitting right in with us, so what's up with all the stuff?

*that is curiosity not meaning to sound snooty*

#88890
Bionic Weapon

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Laterali wrote...

Bionic Weapon wrote...

One more thing I had to point out ( I may be getting it all wrong though)

Article said:

3.11 Shepard sympathizes with the Illusive Man

"Shepard remarks after the Catalyst’s comment that the Illusive Man was right in wanting to control the Reapers. Many have taken this to an extreme, saying that Shepard then sympathizes with TIM, and that everything the player had done to fight Cerberus was for nothing. This is false. Sympathy and agreement are two different things."




Indeed they are. Shepard could sympathize with TIM based on he meant well for humanity and wanted to secure a future for the species. Shep throughout the game (ME3 pargon dialouge) asked TIm to join them so he/she saw some good in the man.

But for him to say he was right about control to me isn't sympathizing, but outright saying "Control is in fact a good idea"....  and before that Anderson pretty much said he (TIM) was insane to even think something like that was possible, so all of a sudden Shep is going to agree with TIM over Anderson? Don't see how that makes a lick of sense, but if I'm misinterpeting this let me know.






You know what infuriates me? The whole scene with TIM right before that line. TIM is telling Shepard that he's doing it for the betterment of mankind. But Shepard comes right out and says that humans are not ready for that kind of power. So right there, it doesn't matter if Shepard believes TIM is crazy, right, or even if he just sympathizes with TIM. It doesn't matter.



*slaps forehead*

Shepard DID say that to TIM didn't he/she? Now it's even worse.

Why didn't Shepard repeat that  same logic to the catayst? Tell him  that he or anyone lese in humaity or any species is not ready for that.

Even better why was Control an option at all? If these Reapers were his solution and this happened every 50,000, and Shepard did decide to use this option. He'd just send them back to Dark Space and cut them off. So therefore this solution would be rendered poitless if there wasn't a solution to use.

The catalyst gave power to a person who would not only NOT repeat this pattern but get rid it all together. The cycle is broken and his soultion is dead.  If i were in control and knew Shepard, I'd do everything in my power to not even give him a hint of victory.

Ok sure the catalyst said no human made it that far, but it would make more sense if he said after that "and this is as close as you'll come" before trying to kill Shep.

To that I say "Catalyst what the hell are you doing"?
You had Shepard at your mercy and now you want to pass the throne to him/her? That's... well thats stupid.

#88891
Computim

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Kyria Nyriese wrote...

/snicker

You'd think someone with the name Computim would know better than have his cell number anywhere that people could get it without him giving it to him :P


Well, said person also had a time in his life where he needed to build up contacts for his consulting business haha.  Thankfully those days are over and I have a normal career now.  I didn't really underestimate the powers of the internet collective, I just forgot I even had that linked through there since I so rarely used it.

That, surprisingly, is one of only a half a dozen places I actually have my phone number.  I have an email address floating around but I can easily blacklist stuff on it since it's off of my domain and what not.

@Tami - seriously don't feel bad, it was hilarious and made for a crazy morning, I didn't take any of it personally, though most of it was asking questions about stuff I obviously had no idea about, and my phone plan thankfully doesn't charge for incoming texts so it cost me nothing more than maybe some phantom vibration syndrome in my hand from trying to hold the phone while it kept buzzing :P

#88892
Dynelven

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TamiBx wrote...

sagevallant wrote...

Dynelven wrote...

I'm not taking your post as negative or 'being mean'. Calm discussion is healthy. However, to address your point, I've said time and time again that I'm not completely happy with the ending either, I would've liked more closure, more explanation. However, I both try to keep my opinions constructive and also have become almost as outraged at the flood of sh*t talk on Bioware as those that made insane comments on how terrible the ending was.


You're in the wrong thread, broseph. There's no hate here. We're upset, we're let down, we want better.  We need help to get through this. We're more like AA than a seething cauldron of hatred and bitterness.


I was about to say that. :lol:
We are really civil here; we're literally sitting around listening to people talk about how they felt about the ending, and why. We are not planning any rebellion/riot, we are not bashing anyone...we actually love the game and support Bioware; we just think the ending wasn't up to Bioware standards and they are addressing it.

You didn't love the ending, neither did we. We are being constructive and so are you, so...why are we even talking about this? :huh:


And for that I apologize. I've been through so many threads that are doing nothing but bashing that, if I was wrong, an apology from me is needed.

#88893
Goodwood

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Lancane wrote...

We won't get the endings we want or truly deserve, BioWare has sold us out, Hudson has sold us out and Walters has sold us out. They've joined the tendentious corporate machine which has evolved from within the industry as seen with Electronic Arts, Activision and Lucas Arts. The gamers only matter in terms of fiscal intake, until they lose out of the almighty dollar they'll not understand. Sad to imagine the day would come when fellow gaming geeks would sell their fellow gamers out for a profit - and soon the evolution of gaming will change because people are getting fed up with paying top dollar for rushed, gutted and overall lacking games. Personally I'd rather pay top dollar for a well developed console game then to play a cheap five dollar multiplayer online game with ****** poor graphics, but such games will continue to get more popular as more and more games are found lacking regarding the final product.


The negative emotions, anger, dispair, hatred, are the easiest to lapse into at times such as these. But they only serve to dissuade recovery, to hinder progress, and to snuff out potential efforts at reestablishing what we as gamers—and people—need and desire. It's easy to wallow around in an ocean of self-pity, feeling as though the world is out to get us or only sees us as mere chattel, a magpie with a wallet mounted on its back. And therein lies the path to self-destruction, no matter the event, no matter the cause.

Humans are social creatures, we build movements and monuments together or not at all. As social beings, we respond more readily to positive emotions: love, compassion, empathy, and togetherness. Some of our most successful efforts as a species arose from a shared will to do what until then could not be done, to make the impossible possible, and to come together in times of crisis in order to rebuild and reestablish ourselves anew. Goodness is a reflection of progress, and when we all collaborate constructively to bring about something which could not be done by any one person, or even a small group of people, we rightfully feel proud of what we have accomplished.

Our movement, as embodied by the posts and people within this thread who have come together to express their feelings, is a testament to what can be achieved when large numbers of like-minded people come together and put their collective efforts into pushing for positive change. It is easy to be pessemistic about what our labours have produced thus far: the Extended Cut DLC; I for one am somewhat ambivalent about it, but within that is sprinkled a few bits of optimism. In a sense our movement has already won, and yet there may well be much larger battles on the horizon. The movement is in a state of flux; we're waiting for the hammer to fall. It is easy to lose oneself in negativity when the only option we have, aside from voicing our concerns, is to wait.

Don't give in. Don't give up. Hold the line.

#88894
Computim

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Dynelven wrote...

And for that I apologize. I've been through so many threads that are doing nothing but bashing that, if I was wrong, an apology from me is needed.


No harm, no foul.  We do occassionally get heated in here, usually someone has a cool enough head to bring us back before we start firing off the main guns.

We've got punch and cookies in the tent, welcome to our end of the line, we sent all the guys who didn't want to shower to the other end if you're wondering why it smells so nice here :whistle:

Edit: Part of why we're still here is because we've managed to keep civil through it all :)

Modifié par Computim, 21 avril 2012 - 04:18 .


#88895
Kyria Nyriese

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Goodwood wrote...

Lancane wrote...

We won't get the endings we want or truly deserve, BioWare has sold us out, Hudson has sold us out and Walters has sold us out. They've joined the tendentious corporate machine which has evolved from within the industry as seen with Electronic Arts, Activision and Lucas Arts. The gamers only matter in terms of fiscal intake, until they lose out of the almighty dollar they'll not understand. Sad to imagine the day would come when fellow gaming geeks would sell their fellow gamers out for a profit - and soon the evolution of gaming will change because people are getting fed up with paying top dollar for rushed, gutted and overall lacking games. Personally I'd rather pay top dollar for a well developed console game then to play a cheap five dollar multiplayer online game with ****** poor graphics, but such games will continue to get more popular as more and more games are found lacking regarding the final product.


The negative emotions, anger, dispair, hatred, are the easiest to lapse into at times such as these. But they only serve to dissuade recovery, to hinder progress, and to snuff out potential efforts at reestablishing what we as gamers—and people—need and desire. It's easy to wallow around in an ocean of self-pity, feeling as though the world is out to get us or only sees us as mere chattel, a magpie with a wallet mounted on its back. And therein lies the path to self-destruction, no matter the event, no matter the cause.

Humans are social creatures, we build movements and monuments together or not at all. As social beings, we respond more readily to positive emotions: love, compassion, empathy, and togetherness. Some of our most successful efforts as a species arose from a shared will to do what until then could not be done, to make the impossible possible, and to come together in times of crisis in order to rebuild and reestablish ourselves anew. Goodness is a reflection of progress, and when we all collaborate constructively to bring about something which could not be done by any one person, or even a small group of people, we rightfully feel proud of what we have accomplished.

Our movement, as embodied by the posts and people within this thread who have come together to express their feelings, is a testament to what can be achieved when large numbers of like-minded people come together and put their collective efforts into pushing for positive change. It is easy to be pessemistic about what our labours have produced thus far: the Extended Cut DLC; I for one am somewhat ambivalent about it, but within that is sprinkled a few bits of optimism. In a sense our movement has already won, and yet there may well be much larger battles on the horizon. The movement is in a state of flux; we're waiting for the hammer to fall. It is easy to lose oneself in negativity when the only option we have, aside from voicing our concerns, is to wait.

Don't give in. Don't give up. Hold the line.


/applause

Well said Goodwood :D

#88896
TamiBx

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Dynelven wrote...

And for that I apologize. I've been through so many threads that are doing nothing but bashing that, if I was wrong, an apology from me is needed.


Don't worry, it is understandable.

This is where we talk about the ending without raging or bashing. So technically, it is where you should come to post :lol:

#88897
FreedMason

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TamiBx wrote...

Dynelven wrote...

And for that I apologize. I've been through so many threads that are doing nothing but bashing that, if I was wrong, an apology from me is needed.


Don't worry, it is understandable.

This is where we talk about the ending without raging or bashing. So technically, it is where you should come to post :lol:

Yeah, the most we do is some fun nit-picking here and there.:devil:^_^

#88898
MAXinsanity409

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long thread is long

#88899
Kyria Nyriese

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Dynelven wrote...
And for that I apologize. I've been through so many threads that are doing nothing but bashing that, if I was wrong, an apology from me is needed.


While we do tend to be a passionate bunch, we do our very best to make sure we channel those passions in a positive way :D.

As Tim already said, welcome to the line, I believe there are also cupcakes, cookies and rumor has it there's a bar, however, I still haven't found it.

#88900
Goodwood

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Kyria Nyriese wrote...

/applause

Well said Goodwood :D


Thank you. :happy:

Sometimes I get the urge to go all philosphical, particularly when someone is feeling down, and produce long-winded feel-good rants such as this.

It's a curse. ^_^