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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#88951
g_bassi13

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sagevallant wrote...

I'm not sure I would call it laziness. The development schedules for ME3 and DA2 were pretty tight, really. Compared to the work going into the previous iterations, anyway. DA2 in particular suffered from it with the constantly repeating zones. Sure was considerate of all those quest targets to keep hiding in the same caves so we'd know where to find them.

Though you can't compare a movie to a game like this, I'm going to make this analogy anyways. I feel like ME3 was some blockbuster summer movie that ended up being 60 minutes long. Not that those 60 minutes weren't quite good, but we should really have been getting a 100+ minute movie. If you ask the producers why, and they say they had to rush to get the movie out this summer, that's not really good enough is it? You should be asking them why they couldn't push it to a holiday release, or even maybe hold it off until next summer.

I don't care if it's Bioware's or EA's fault that the game missed living anywhere near it's potential. We as gamers shouldn't be sympathizing with their attempt to make quick money, but rather we should be pushing them to live up to said potential.

#88952
Nharia1

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xHezz90 wrote...
I would have waited however long it took them to get it right, and I think that's what these developers and what not seem to forget. The fans/customers will wait longer if it is going to be done right, I would want a chef in a restaurant to take longer making my meal instead of serving me half-cooked food.

Oh... I'm surprised most people I know want their food as fast as possible... I'm never able to take my time and get everything right, within a reasonable amount of time...:unsure:

#88953
Ihatebadgames

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rEApers are trying to get FPS fans to buy RPGs by making their RPGs more and more like shooters.They don't care if they keep their RPG fans or not.I really don't see me buying arrows,swords or healing potions that dissapear when I use them,for a single player RPG,with real cash money.

#88954
sagevallant

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FreedMason wrote...

Yes, I agree. I think the saddest thing is that we care much more about Mass Effect than the people being paid to make it. Back in the day, I would be grinning to work if I was making Mass Effect things. Nowadays, they seem almost tired of their five-year-old IP already...:crying: However, some of the things the community makes are amazing, like those outstanding Shields comic shorts, and the YouTube analysis videos, etcetera.


No, the people being paid to make it are the ones responsible for each individual mission, and there are plenty of moving moments throughout the game. It's the ending that falls short, for various reasons and exactly who to place the blame on is unknown. It does kind of feel like KotOR 2 did, falling flat on its face in the closing moments of an otherwise exceptional game. Different devs, KotOR2 was made by Obsidian, but it was done on a ridiculously short development time that could only end in failure. Thanks, LucasArts >.>

If EA were to ask my opinion on how to increase the profit and number of games produced by Bioware, I'd recommend buying Obsidian up and adding them to the team. Maybe get the Alpha Protocol IP rolling again too. Shame that game was surrounded by such controversy, it's great.

#88955
Goodwood

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Nharia1 wrote...

xHezz90 wrote...
I would have waited however long it took them to get it right, and I think that's what these developers and what not seem to forget. The fans/customers will wait longer if it is going to be done right, I would want a chef in a restaurant to take longer making my meal instead of serving me half-cooked food.

Oh... I'm surprised most people I know want their food as fast as possible... I'm never able to take my time and get everything right, within a reasonable amount of time...:unsure:


When the alternative is a ruined meal, you can bet the chef will be taking his/her time (within reason) in preparing it. Speaking of food, the ME3 ending is like you've gone out to a five-star restaurant and ate an eighty-dollar meal that was very good, and when you ask for the cheque the chef comes over and farts in your face.

With apologies to Yahtzee.

#88956
DJBare

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Morning troop, hi all!

Dynelven wrote...

I don't have the time to read all three THOUSAND pages of this thread but as far as the topic goes..... no, no you can't get the ending you want because every single person that has invested enough in Mass Effect that they are this upset about the ending has a different idea about how they want it to end. (I'm sure my ideal ending differs from yours.)

Welcome to the mega thread, yes it's a lot to read, unfortunately because of that you appear to have missed a consesus, everyone in here for at least 2000 pages agree that we will not get a perfect ending for each individual, that's practically impossible, but it's not about individual wants, it's about the ending actually fitting the Mass Effect universe which it does not unless you take a sledge hammer to knock a square peg into a round hole

What information states that it is a 'random' world without tech and that Shepard will never see them again.

If you're pulling it out of thin air based simply on the ending, that's insane. To see a few crew members emerge from the Normandy means nothing at all. Who is to say other crew members are not still inside? Who's to say that planet is not Earth? Who's to say that because you don't see another Organic or Synthetic, none exist? They don't pan over the entire planet and show you all surviving lifeforms for a reason. It takes too much space, and completely takes away from the mystery (use your imagination people).

Unless it is written in stone somewhere, your conclusions are based simply on what you think your problems are.

The two moons, at the very end it's made abundently clear by Mr Aldrin that they do not have space travel yet, so the crew were stranded and bred on that planet, don't even get me started on creating a viable gene pool from a crew of a 100.

Anyway, again, welcome to the mega thread, pull up a seat and grab a cupcake.

Modifié par DJBare, 21 avril 2012 - 05:34 .


#88957
RussianOrc

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Ihatebadgames wrote...

rEApers are trying to get FPS fans to buy RPGs by making their RPGs more and more like shooters.They don't care if they keep their RPG fans or not.I really don't see me buying arrows,swords or healing potions that dissapear when I use them,for a single player RPG,with real cash money.

The day that this happens i will quit gaming forever...

#88958
Bionic Weapon

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Laterali wrote...

That's exactly it. The choices were implemented with no real purpose other than to give us the illusion of choice.  Shepard is how we make him/her, but also has his own personality. There are some things that Bioware doesn't let us decide. The fact that Control was never an option for Shepard was well stated throughout the entire game.

He also throughout the game, and especially the end, says that freedom and individuality is what makes organics great. So let's look at that.

Control- Shepard goes entirely against what he's been saying the whole game, controlling the Reapers is too much power for any single person or race. Therefore is not an option.

Synthesis- 30 seconds before choosing, and throughout the whole series, Shepard says that freedom, choice, and individuality is what it means to be organic. Choosing synthesis takes those away from everyone in the Galaxy. It goes against what Shepard has stood for throughout the 3 games. Therefore it is not an option.

Destroy- Shepards main goal is to destroy the Reapers, it is his purpose throughout all 3 games. It IS the ONLY OPTION.

When they made Synthesis and Control as options, they completely disregarded everything they wrote up until that point, simply for the sake of having A, B, C endings. So what does this mean? It means that whoever wrote the ending, lost sight of what this story was about, for the sake of "Speculation."



Theres also the fact that the Reapers have said they are beyond human comprehesion or any other species for that matter. So it would seem as if you were going the control route you'd have to know/want to know what exactly you are controlling. Is it their will? Ther way of thinking? the entire reaper army? I have no clue to be honest.


Also as you said the goal was clear: stop the reapers. In ME1 you saw the effect indoctrination had and how dangerous it could be, so that right there among many was one reason to stop them.

In ME2 they were liquifying people for a proto-reaper and at the time no one knew why, but if humans were being turn to goop no good could come out of it, so again they had to be stopped.

And in ME3 they once again come to wreck peoples **** up and turn alot of them in abmonations and slaves and things far worse. I remember reading the codex of the harvester ships and how they would keep people away so that the agonizing screams of people being melted would'nt scare the other indoctrinated people off.

That really unsettled me and made it even greater Sheaprd to stop them. Even if in their own mind they thought they were doing the galaxy good, the way they saw to do it was horrifying. Most people in shepards situation would do their utmost to protect as many people/species as possible and put an end to this cycle, even if the risks later on could come back.

They had killed far too many to just be controlled and for Shep topretend all those meltings/mergings never happened.

Which brings up Synthesis. As you said it was the theme in ME of what makes us who we are as a species. each of us has our own philosphies, ideas, ways of thinking (even if wrong) but it makes us who we are.
Now we get to be they same... YAY!!!!!! no diversity, no uniquness, just one single half and half lifeform. Oh and theres the fact that no one gets a say in this, nor does Shep argue that he can't just go changing people all willy nilly, against their consent or hell WITHOUT it.

So the only option (despite the reprecussions) is Destroy, it was the end goal and while it feels like a waste as far as EDI and the Geth go (unless they actaully do live and thats fact and not speculation) they reapers have done too much damge for me to even think about the other two.

Destroy is my middle finger to the reapers and that bastard catalyst

God I wish this forum had spell check. Bear with my mistakes

#88959
sagevallant

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RussianOrc wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

rEApers are trying to get FPS fans to buy RPGs by making their RPGs more and more like shooters.They don't care if they keep their RPG fans or not.I really don't see me buying arrows,swords or healing potions that dissapear when I use them,for a single player RPG,with real cash money.

The day that this happens i will quit gaming forever...


You'd think that the rEApers would learn from SWTOR that copying the thing that WAS big isn't going to work out as well as trying to nail the next thing that will BE big. They should just sit down and turn Bioware lose on a game in the Witcher 2 style of world design or something. And, OH YEAH, take a page from CD Projekt RED and revise their DRM policies.

Bioware has been ruling the SP RPG market for a long, long time. There's no reason to think they can't crush Witcher 2, Skyrim, everyone with Dragon Age 3 if they just take the time to make it right. Or better, maybe steer away from the Darker and Edgier worlds and just do a FUN game. Like Knights of the Old Republic was.

Haven't seen a game with that kind of tone for quite a while, it's all gotta be puerile space marines fighting techno zombie monstrosities. I just want a fun, funny, mature RPG. None of this emo crap from Japan.

Modifié par sagevallant, 21 avril 2012 - 05:47 .


#88960
g_bassi13

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sagevallant wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Yes, they were pretty tight. EA, it seems, are falling back into their old bad habits (or perhaps they never grew out of them?) that demanded at least one AAA game a year from their developers. That's what killed the Medal of Honor series (though the 2010 release was quite amazing in my mind and surpassed CoD:MW2 in terms of production value and quality). That said, I actually liked the ending to DA2 because it was true to the established storyline.


I sided with the mages on my ONLY full playthrough. All those reused maps made it so hard to get into a second round. And it's a good thing everyone complained about them, or else we'd probably have gotten redundant maps in ME3 too. Otherwise, I had no real complaints. Sure, I didn't go bonkers over the LI options the way I did over Leliana (...sigh :wub:) but it was all right.  A bit shallow for companion discussions.

I feel like the story peaked with the Arishok though, that was the interesting conflict to me. Mages v. Templars was about two groups forcing themselves to not understand each other, Qunari v. non-Qunari was about two very different world views coming into conflict. The two sides quite genuinely do not understand one another. I found it a lot more engrossing.

I thought DA2 peaked right before you embark on the Deep Roads Expedition. You know, before they actually get into the main story (stories?) of the game. It was all downhill from there for me.

#88961
Ihatebadgames

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The last JRPG I played was FF7.Reason being all the philosophical crapola at the end.(If I am remembering right)Give me a fight to remember(no cheating on the bad guy side)where I'm the hero,and a good story and I'm a happy camper.There is good and evil.If you believe there isn't walk into any prison naked.I'm really tired of all the edgy shades of gray,they're just misunderstood.

#88962
Kyria Nyriese

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Ihatebadgames wrote...

The last JRPG I played was FF7.Reason being all the philosophical crapola at the end.(If I am remembering right)Give me a fight to remember(no cheating on the bad guy side)where I'm the hero,and a good story and I'm a happy camper.There is good and evil.If you believe there isn't walk into any prison naked.I'm really tired of all the edgy shades of gray,they're just misunderstood.


I have yet to complete a single JRPG, and been trying since FF7.  Closest I got was Lost Odyssey where I got to like the boss fight just before the final boss fight and said f*** it because apparently I hadn't leveled up enough to fight him....

On the gaming philosophy I agree, I want a good solid story, with a beginning, middle and end, and I'm tired of everything having to be dark all the time, yes the story is welcome to have dark points, but you need the light points to keep me interested.

#88963
bobafett007

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Garrus "Normandy come in. Everything is going to s*** out here. Could use assistance. Damn Shepard, we said hold up a sec! There he goes."
Harbinger blasts and destroys the charging troops. Normandy swoops in and picks up Garrus & _______.
Joker "This is for Shepard!"
Normandy attacks Harbinger with Thanix Cannon.
Harbinger "F*** THAT"
Harbinger chases Normandy out of Earth's orbit. Hits it with a weapon that fries some of the electronics in the Normandy, lots of fires burst out inside the ship.
Joker "This is the Normandy reporting, bringing Harbinger your way."
Fleet Cpt. #86 "We see you Normandy."
Joker "Circuits are fried and shields are going down."
Fleet Cpt. #86 "We got him from here, Normandy, get clear!"
Joker "Tali. Garrus. How are those repairs going? One hit and we're done for!"
Garrus "My badass motherf***ery can't even get us out of this one."
Hacket "Joker. Just heard from Shepard. He is alive and in the Citadel."
Normandy Crew "What?!!"
Hacket "Get me to Random Fleet Cruiser #35. I'll guide Shepard the rest of the way. We're almost there guys. The Normandy and it's Master Elite crew is no good to me destroyed. The fight is over for you guys. Don't worry, we couldn't have done it without you. Now get to the rondevu point. We'll be seeing you soon."
Normandy drops off Admiral Hacket. Heads towards Charon Relay. Gets there after a while. Reluctantly makes the jump. Gets weird energy signatures almost immediately. With cockpit still a bit fried and on fire, Joker is able to survive the wave and land the Normandy with limited controls and mad skillz.
*Tarantino Rewind*
Shepard wakes up near Citadel beam. Looks up and sees Harbinger flying off for some unknown reason to him. Has a Man W/ No Name epic pistol draw with Marauder Shields. Kills The Illusive Man. Then talks to some pr*** that give him the option (no option), to kill the Reapers and screw the galaxy big time by sacrificing himself (downer). Crucible fires. Spreads the space magic. What is left of the fleet armada's ships end up looking like the USG Ishimura on the inside after cannibalism and infighting. And Earth... aw who cares.
But don't worry, the is A New Hope in Mass Effect 4 - (whispers) Blasto is coming.

#88964
Kyria Nyriese

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Alrighty fellow line holders, I am stepping off the line and hitting the rack, hold the line and I will return in a few hours.

HOLD THE LINE

#88965
DJBare

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An End Once and For All


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Latest News/blogs
Forbes, Mass Effect 3 Ending 'Provoked A Bigger Fan Reaction Than Any Other' In Video Game History
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Game Front, Mass Effect 3 Ending: Change Could Have Empowered Game Writing
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***Attention*** Mass Effect Survey Scam
Forbes, EA Shrugs Off Worst Company in America Title
Forbes, EA is the Worst Company in America, Now What?
BBC News, Mass Effect 3 to get extended ending at no cost to gamers
BioWare Announces Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut
Bioware blog,Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut
Forbes,Fans Victorious: Mass Effect 3 to Expand Ending with Free 'Extended Cut' DLC
Forbes, BioWare Announces Mass Effect 3 Extended Cut - But Is It A Victory For Fans?
"Mass Effect 3" Ending: Did Fan Protests Cause EA Stock Price To Drop?
Giant Bomb, Sticking the Landing
Forbes, The Real Precedent Being Set By Mass Effect 3 Protests
Forbes, Six Reasons Why Changing The Mass Effect 3 Ending Won't Threaten Its 'Artistic Integrity'
Killer Kittens from Mars, Charity sees the need, not the cause - German proverb
International Business Times, ‘Mass Effect 3’ Ending: Disappointed Fans Send Bioware 402 Cupcakes In Protest
California Literary Review, Reaping the Harvest of Poor Choices
Fprbes, Mass Effect 3 Protesters Sending Cupcakes to Bioware
Forbes, Why Most Websites Have to Make Nice to the Industry
Forbes, New Ending Setting Precedence?
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Forbes, Why Child's Play Stopped Taking Donations From Retake Mass Effect
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customer is always right.

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Mass Effect 3: Never ending nightmare.
Jim Sterling gets it!
he Mass Effect 3 Indoctrination Theory: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage (SPOILERS)
Retake Mass Effect - A Character Tribute
I Am the Very Model of a Mass Effect Enthusiast (SPOILERS)
Global EDMONTON, Cupcake protest against Mass Effect 3
RetakeMassEffect - Fan Testimonies
Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage (SPOILERS)
Archengeia number 1, Mass Effect 3 Ending: My Thoughts, What Could Have Been, What Should Have Been
Archengeia number 2, Mass Effect 3: My Thoughts, Continued; Potential, Illusive Man, and Cerberus
Archengeia number 3, Mass Effect 3: Responses to Comments, The Importance of Choice, and The Indoctrination Theory
Archengeia number 4, Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut DLC, The Analogy, and The Choice We Face
Smudboy, Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction Part 1
Smudboy, Mass Effect 3: Bookends of Destruction Part 2

Alernative endings created by fans
StElmo, Mass Effect 3 Alternative Cut Down Ending, Paragon Femshep
Mass Effect 3 "Extended Fan Cut"
Mass Effect 3 - Alernate ending, Liara as LI
Mass Effect 3: Re-Edited Ending
Mass Effect 3 - Alternate Fan Ending - Liara Version


Hold the line and your wallet!

#88966
Ihatebadgames

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Night sleep tight,dream of better endings.

#88967
sagevallant

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Ihatebadgames wrote...

The last JRPG I played was FF7.Reason being all the philosophical crapola at the end.(If I am remembering right)Give me a fight to remember(no cheating on the bad guy side)where I'm the hero,and a good story and I'm a happy camper.There is good and evil.If you believe there isn't walk into any prison naked.I'm really tired of all the edgy shades of gray,they're just misunderstood.


I feel like part of the impact of a disaffected character is lost if they're disaffected from the start. Why can't it happen in the game? Flashbacks aren't enough either. Lacking. At the start of the game doesn't work either, we haven't had time to grow accustomed to the healthy, well-adjusted character. Heck, most of the time the audience doesn't truly care about the character who dies anyway. Aeris is an example of what happens when a majority of the audience DOES care about the sacrificial lamb.

I'd like to see a game that works like a proper morality system... but without the morality bar. You can go the circular route of the hero, or cut corners like an antihero. No punishments or excessive rewards either way, or better punish both paths equally. ME did this a bit, but in the end you're just trying to max one or the other. If there's a rep system like in DA, you're still forcing choices based on the rep scores. I'm talking about a pure system, quick and mean versus longer and nice. No reason to minmax outside of wanting to be a saint or a jerk. ^_^

#88968
DJBare

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bobafett007 wrote...

*fanfic*

Nice story, but it would take 5 hours for the normandy to reach the charon relay.

#88969
El_Draque

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I want a better ending.. I dont want mass effect to fade from memory because of that STUPID ENDING

#88970
Ihatebadgames

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I think the death of Aeris was the first time I tried to see if I screwed up!,and was really pissed when come to find out you could not bring her back.I liked the other girl better.

#88971
sagevallant

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El_Draque wrote...

I want a better ending.. I dont want mass effect to fade from memory because of that STUPID ENDING


It won't be fading any time soon. But will it be remembered because of the series, or because of the controversy it has caused now? :unsure:

#88972
Goodwood

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sagevallant wrote...

Ihatebadgames wrote...

The last JRPG I played was FF7.Reason being all the philosophical crapola at the end.(If I am remembering right)Give me a fight to remember(no cheating on the bad guy side)where I'm the hero,and a good story and I'm a happy camper.There is good and evil.If you believe there isn't walk into any prison naked.I'm really tired of all the edgy shades of gray,they're just misunderstood.


I feel like part of the impact of a disaffected character is lost if they're disaffected from the start. Why can't it happen in the game? Flashbacks aren't enough either. Lacking. At the start of the game doesn't work either, we haven't had time to grow accustomed to the healthy, well-adjusted character. Heck, most of the time the audience doesn't truly care about the character who dies anyway. Aeris is an example of what happens when a majority of the audience DOES care about the sacrificial lamb.

I'd like to see a game that works like a proper morality system... but without the morality bar. You can go the circular route of the hero, or cut corners like an antihero. No punishments or excessive rewards either way, or better punish both paths equally. ME did this a bit, but in the end you're just trying to max one or the other. If there's a rep system like in DA, you're still forcing choices based on the rep scores. I'm talking about a pure system, quick and mean versus longer and nice. No reason to minmax outside of wanting to be a saint or a jerk. ^_^


Yahtzee goes into this often, particularly when "moral choice" is a key facet of character development and/or gameplay (Infamous and its sequel was one instance where they appeared in a game he otherwise liked). He says that moral choice systems should "drink a bucket of paint and retard themselves out of existence" and to be honest, I agree. Whle it wasn't perfect, I thought that ME3's reputation system was probably the best compromise yet in terms of integrating morality into your character and what game choices were and were not available.

#88973
sagevallant

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Ihatebadgames wrote...

I think the death of Aeris was the first time I tried to see if I screwed up!,and was really pissed when come to find out you could not bring her back.I liked the other girl better.


Tifa. First crush I ever had on a bunch of pixels. ^_^

#88974
bobafett007

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DJBare wrote...

bobafett007 wrote...

*fanfic*

Nice story, but it would take 5 hours for the normandy to reach the charon relay.


just a joke to lighten the mood.

#88975
sagevallant

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Goodwood wrote...

Yahtzee goes into this often, particularly when "moral choice" is a key facet of character development and/or gameplay (Infamous and its sequel was one instance where they appeared in a game he otherwise liked). He says that moral choice systems should "drink a bucket of paint and retard themselves out of existence" and to be honest, I agree. Whle it wasn't perfect, I thought that ME3's reputation system was probably the best compromise yet in terms of integrating morality into your character and what game choices were and were not available.


Until you can't talk TIM to death because you hit ONE renegade trigger during the course of your adventure >.>