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[Witty_Remark]

I really wish people would stop throwing around the term "miss your blue waifu"

I've got Shep playthroughs where I didn't romance anybody. Doesn't mean I don't still care about the crew or my friends.

If Bioware decided they wanted to do a 'bold, interesting' choice with their game, then they should have made that clearer in the first two games. Having the rug pulled out from under me isn't necessarily bad writing. I like twists, I like turns, and I'm a complete sucker for tragic endings.

But to string your customers/fans along for multiple games and then do that?

I feel like that's borderline lying. I understand the game is the illusion of choice, not pure choice, but there's not even an illusion here. Throw me some bones here, Bioware. I'm a writer that loves killing people off and dropping rocks, but the amount of false hope in the game (especially in the audio files being discussed in the spoiler discussion group) is actual quite sadistic.

[Aesieru]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

YOU WILL ALWAYS BE TRAPPED IN THE LINES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT THE REAPERS HAVE ORDAINED FOR YOU SO LONG AS YOU USE AND FOLLOW THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE RELAYS, INCIDENTALLY TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN ALSO LEAD TO A TECHNOLOGICAL SINGULARITY (THE REASONS THE REAPERS ARE CREATED AND THE THING THEY ARE MEANT TO DESTROY) IF YOU'RE LEFT ALONE WITH IT FOR TOO LONG.

This singularity is deadly, it will result in an AI race of some sort being created and in time expanding through all the resources of the galaxy and beyond. Other technological paths outside the relays are blocked so you won't find ways to escape or NOT rely on their technology, even if it takes 100,000 more years to develop it'd still be better than using the Reapers Relay Trap.

The Relays are a prison, a cell that is now destroyed, yes some freedoms had to be sacrificed, some opportunities removed, but the potential for it is much better.

[GDK]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

It doesn't really matter if all the Reapers exploded, does it?

[HiddenKING]

Armass81 wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

mass_zotz wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Perfect, so you agree with me that the galaxy isn't ****ed forever. There will be growth, it will be hard but now the galatic comunnity can grow on its own achievments, they might make new relays or discover new methods of fast travel. How is that a bad ending? Imo its a really good one, i prefer independence and self determination over being slaves of alien technology (just like Liara's father, the wisest asari ever)

Independent advancement is going to be PRETTY hard without the ability to quickly travel to other star systems.

"Slave to alien technology"? What? Do you know how common it is today for someone to use a product or appliance made from a foreign country? Just because you're using something made from someone else doesn't mean you can't think for yourself, it just means that someone else beat you to it. Only an idiot would try to beat themselves up by ignoring beneficial technologies developed by another race/species.

Except that none of these foreign technologies are actually death traps set by ancient evil machines lol

This entire bull**** (ME series lol) started BECAUSE of the mass relays, if we didnt found any of them we would all be fine and happy on our own. It was the fact that we got dependand on alien tech instead of finding our ways ( something that Liara's dad realised) that made us vulnerable to the reapers...

And this is why the relays NEED to go, otherwise we wont ever learn anything

OMG, what is wrong with you. We get that you don't want the relays and THAT is perfectly fine, but WHY does this have to be the ending for everyone.

It's not just an ending, it's a new beginning to the Mass Effect Universe. It allows it to grow in a new way, Shepard broke the chain of destruction. Yes the relays are gone, and it allows the Universe to grow in new ways. New Technology, new challenges, new stories, and new characters. There's tons of possibilities now, and it's not bound to follow Shepard and the 2 dozen or so people from the games. It's a bitter ending, but it's a awesome new beginning.

This guy gets it. 

People agree with me, I feel so happy

[Rdubs]

Armass81 wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

It's not just an ending, it's a new beginning to the Mass Effect Universe. It allows it to grow in a new way, Shepard broke the chain of destruction. Yes the relays are gone, and it allows the Universe to grow in new ways. New Technology, new challenges, new stories, and new characters. There's tons of possibilities now, and it's not bound to follow Shepard and the 2 dozen or so people from the games. It's a bitter ending, but it's a awesome new beginning.

This guy gets it. 

LOL, what I've been saying all along...the sole purpose of ME3 was to try and serve as a setup for a follow-on MMORPG or other follow-on products, which was best accomplished by resetting the landscape.  I believe they STARTED out trying to be true to how ME3 was probably initially envisioned, with a wide variety of endings (or at least 3 wildly different ones, including "reapers win" as promised) - but at some point, without anything better on the drawing board they realized trying to extend the ME franchise was their best risk-adjusted option and so they ditched the "choice" and ending variety in favor of what is essentially an interactive comic to bridge us over to whatever comes next.

I just basically paid $60 for an interactive version of Mass Effect: Redemption except instead of prequel to ME2, it's prequel to ME-MMORPG.

[RazorrX]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...



Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

They are only a trap in the sense that they gave a specific direction to the technological advancement of society and they were used in order to make the reaping easier.  When the protheans altered  the keepers, it stopped the 'trap' part from working anymore.  With Reapers gone, they simply become the state of technology that we can use to advance beyond.  

In other words, they become a quality of life thing vs a way to guage when society is getting close to evil AI land.

[albertalad]

Here is a particular biting review of ME 3.

http://www.darkreign...-endings-leaked

[Aesieru]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Dialogue?

Well, forgive me for not memorizing ME1 script but he said something like this...

"...you follow the path of the Protheans, using their technology. Thus you follow the path of the relays, the path of the Reapers."

not exact, but fairly close

  - Part 1

  - Part 2

Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[AgitatedLemon]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Dialogue?

Well, forgive me for not memorizing ME1 script but he said something like this...

"...you follow the path of the Protheans, using their technology. Thus you follow the path of the relays, the path of the Reapers."

not exact, but fairly close

How does that imply that it's a trap?

All he's saying is that the current civilizations are following the same general path as the protheans. If anything, that's a compliment.

[shenlonzero]

in all seriousness, if the best writing we can get for the 3rd game ends in inbreeding...i don't want to see the end. i mean seriously, who did bioware hire to write that? are they paid in peanuts cause i dunno...seems like the best way to sh!t on the memory of my characters is accompanied with a twang on a banjo. incest? thats the best you can do? assuming what is being said is true. i'm still going to play it in hopes that none of this is true. and as for the new terms and conditions....i think when you take character people love and you **** on them, prepared to get blasted. cause at this point, they aren't just yours, they are all of ours. alot of people don't seem to care about the "outcome" or "ending" but this isn't about them or for them cause all they want is the journey. well...the journey means nothing if the characters that made the journey possible get raped and shat on. i'm not saying i need roses....but damn..incest? marooned? that's the best you can come up with? quit with the arkansas and halo endings and do something worth a damn. incest...that should never even come up you sick people. sick. plain sick. you should be ashamed.

[Aesieru]

RazorrX wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...



Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

They are only a trap in the sense that they gave a specific direction to the technological advancement of society and they were used in order to make the reaping easier.  When the protheans altered  the keepers, it stopped the 'trap' part from working anymore.  With Reapers gone, they simply become the state of technology that we can use to advance beyond.  

In other words, they become a quality of life thing vs a way to guage when society is getting close to evil AI land.

Incorrect, all the Protheans did was prevent the quick access of the Reapers. The relays still block your technological path from diverging into things, or finding ways out of the galaxy outside of those relays, they also prevent you from exploring dark space and numerous other things.

Mass Effect 3 iterates on this more.

[Rdubs]

GDK wrote...

This is from the readme file in my currently preloading copy of ME3:

"Special Thanks from BioWare
---------------------------
A special thanks to the fans and friends of BioWare. Your thoughts
and feedback on our website forums drive us to make great games."

Edited for clarity: "Your thoughts and feedback on our website forums drive us to make great games [but then we come up with better ideas]."

[Kanmuru]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Dialogue?

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

[madhatterwriter]

Brilliancy in the endings?? I suppose we have different definitions of what is brilliant. To me the endings are actually a bore and kinda of stupid because it doesn't address one small problem: Galactic Civilizations rebuilds.Great. But what about that AI singularity that the Reapers were trying to prevent? It seems to be a very big problem since for the Reapers to think genocide every 50,000k was justified. Shepard's sacrifice doesn't solve that thus passing that problem to the future. I smell ME4....

[recentio]

Aesieru wrote...

curelightwounds wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

You see a wasteland, and I see possibilities.

How many years will it take for Galactic Civilization to reach the level it was before the Reapers?

I see the advancement in technology to do so, the search for new resources, attempts at harnessin or recreatin the Reapers. Species survivin, workin together, and/or tryin to establish dominance. The Galaxy is waitin to be rediscovered.

I would be tempted to be with you and swallow these endings IF there was some kind of official announcement of another Mass Effect game, some hint that I could ctrl+z and try to make things work out better.

As it stands there is no such thing and no such hope. This is, for all intents, the end of the story.

It feels like I'm being asked to choose a life in 1984, Animal Farm, and Burmese Days. Why would I even bother?

If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

The plot of this game is the same as 1,000 other sci-fi stories. It's the characters that made the story unique and memorable. Of course I care more about the characers. They have a lot of very human qualities. Why would I ever value imaginary space battles more than the insightful humanity of a well-written character? The bulk of ME1 and ME2 are character recruitment and character loyalty -- both very personal stories for those squadmates. The characters are essential components of the game for a lot of players. Not all, but a lot.

[Bomb In My Pants]

RazorrX wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...



Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

They are only a trap in the sense that they gave a specific direction to the technological advancement of society and they were used in order to make the reaping easier.  When the protheans altered  the keepers, it stopped the 'trap' part from working anymore.  With Reapers gone, they simply become the state of technology that we can use to advance beyond.  

In other words, they become a quality of life thing vs a way to guage when society is getting close to evil AI land.

I would agree with you on this. But the Reapers are not gone. But they were DESIGNED as a trap. Taht is the point I'm trying to make.

And FYI for future reference- I'm fine with the endings, but I agree that they should not be forced on anyone.

[GDK]

Kanmuru wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Dialogue?

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

[Aesieru]

recentio wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

curelightwounds wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

You see a wasteland, and I see possibilities.

How many years will it take for Galactic Civilization to reach the level it was before the Reapers?

I see the advancement in technology to do so, the search for new resources, attempts at harnessin or recreatin the Reapers. Species survivin, workin together, and/or tryin to establish dominance. The Galaxy is waitin to be rediscovered.

I would be tempted to be with you and swallow these endings IF there was some kind of official announcement of another Mass Effect game, some hint that I could ctrl+z and try to make things work out better.

As it stands there is no such thing and no such hope. This is, for all intents, the end of the story.

It feels like I'm being asked to choose a life in 1984, Animal Farm, and Burmese Days. Why would I even bother?

If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

The plot of this game is the same as 1,000 other sci-fi stories. It's the characters that made the story unique and memorable. Of course I care more about the characers. They have a lot of very human qualities. Why would I ever value imaginary space battles more than the insightful humanity of a well-written character? The bulk of ME1 and ME2 are character recruitment and character loyalty -- both very personal stories for those squadmates. The characters are essential components of the game for a lot of players. Not all, but a lot.

The plot is the entirety of the galaxy, the lore, the reason it exists. The characters exist within the plot, not despite it.

If you understand how the Reapers are protecting the galaxy, how the removal of the relays is the destruction of the prison, and the underlying parts about them, if you play ME3 and understand it, then you will know and you'll see it's not a bad ending.

ALlowing the relays to survive would be a bad idea.

[Kanmuru]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

How does that imply that it's a trap?

All he's saying is that the current civilizations are following the same general path as the protheans. If anything, that's a compliment.

No, hes saying being dependent on alien technology might eventually get you killed because the alien might not have good intentions for you

[AgitatedLemon]

Kanmuru wrote...

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

I haven't played ME1 in years. Forgive me for not memorizing his exact wording and speech pattern the first time.

The protheans reprogramming the Keepers sort of nullifies the whole "trap" aspect of the relays too. They are little more than tools used for quick transportation at this point.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 03 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[Rdubs]

fearan1 wrote...

So will bioware respond on the 6th or just lock this thread and ignore 10000 posts ?

Bioware rep: "The endings are brilliant.  No further discussion needed.  End of line."

[Bomb In My Pants]

Kanmuru wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

How does that imply that it's a trap?

All he's saying is that the current civilizations are following the same general path as the protheans. If anything, that's a compliment.

No, hes saying being dependent on alien technology might eventually get you killed because the alien might not have good intentions for you

Besides, I do believe he destinctly says the word TRAP.

[RazorrX]

Aesieru wrote...

Incorrect, all the Protheans did was prevent the quick access of the Reapers. The relays still block your technological path from diverging into things, or finding ways out of the galaxy outside of those relays, they also prevent you from exploring dark space and numerous other things.

Mass Effect 3 iterates on this more.

I disagree.  The trap was how the Reapers used the conduit and the relays.  That is gone now.  Whith the removal of the Reaper threat the conduits and Reaper technology would be able to user in a new golden age of science and learning where technology grows. 

The tools are no more a trap than a hammer is.  

[Aesieru]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

I haven't played ME1 in years. Forgive me for not memorizing his exact wording and speech pattern.

The protheans reprogramming the Keepers sort of nullifies the whole "trap" aspect of the relays too. They are little more than tools used for quick transportation at this point.

No all they did was prevent the Citadel Relay from activating for a quick arrival of the Reapers at the point of government for the galaxy. The Citadel could still be activated and it still has features, the Protheans just don't react to a particular signal.

[Bomb In My Pants]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

I haven't played ME1 in years. Forgive me for not memorizing his exact wording and speech pattern.

The protheans reprogramming the Keepers sort of nullifies the whole "trap" aspect of the relays too. They are little more than tools used for quick transportation at this point.

The 'trap' is not reliant on the keepers. Taht simply eases the work of the Reapers, and cuts the time necessary to spring the trap.