101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Aesieru]

RazorrX wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Incorrect, all the Protheans did was prevent the quick access of the Reapers. The relays still block your technological path from diverging into things, or finding ways out of the galaxy outside of those relays, they also prevent you from exploring dark space and numerous other things.

Mass Effect 3 iterates on this more.

I disagree.  The trap was how the Reapers used the conduit and the relays.  That is gone now.  Whith the removal of the Reaper threat the conduits and Reaper technology would be able to user in a new golden age of science and learning where technology grows. 

The tools are no more a trap than a hammer is.  

If you already have a means of quick travel, why would you discover new ways? Idleness and stagnation breed contempt.

The ME3 plot lines already establish and reinforce this and the Guardian does too.

[Bomb In My Pants]

K, I think I'm missing something, what does everyone mean by 'the Guardian'?

[RazorrX]

The trap is that the reapers would jump into citadel space, sieze it, access all data on the civilized races and then shut down the relay network. This would cause the galaxy to lose communications as well as fast travel. They then began wiping out systems 1 at a time. That is how the trap worked.

[albertalad]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Right, i have a computer - I don't follow the computer - I have the conputer serve my needs. In ME folks use relays to serve their needs not follow them. Which is very clearly shown in ME 1 why Soverign attacked trying to gain control. As in ME 3 the Reapers did NOT use relays then where exactly is that trap? In fact the rest of the orhanics and geth have reversed the process and are using them to attack the Reapers - some trap!

[Aesieru]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

K, I think I'm missing something, what does everyone mean by 'the Guardian'?

End of ME3, when you choose the ending.

You meet the Guardian which tells you about the Reapers a bit.

If you look at the thread about what the Reapers are with SPOILER in the front and back of it, you'll see what they said.

[CerberusSoldier]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

K, I think I'm missing something, what does everyone mean by 'the Guardian'?

  



The ruler of the Reapers is the Guardian

[GDK]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Do you really dont remember when vigil said the Citadel is a trap? It controls all trafic trough mass relays. With it the reapers can know every strategic point of the galaxy and block all travel trough mass relays.

The reason why the relays are set is because the reapers WANT you to use them, they want civilizations to become dependent on their technology and then it gets 1000x easier to kill us all. Thats why Bioware chose to destroy the relays all the time, they are the reason why the reapers threat started, it must end where it begin...

I haven't played ME1 in years. Forgive me for not memorizing his exact wording and speech pattern.

The protheans reprogramming the Keepers sort of nullifies the whole "trap" aspect of the relays too. They are little more than tools used for quick transportation at this point.

The 'trap' is not reliant on the keepers. Taht simply eases the work of the Reapers, and cuts the time necessary to spring the trap. 

No... It kinda is. Since the keepers were reprogramed, Soverign couldn't just open the door for the baddies and instead needed to attack head on after amassing a fleet. Thus, ME1.

[Maera Imrov]

Kanmuru wrote...

My point stands that if there was a way to save the normandy, 99% of complainers here would go away. This is a shallow reason to hate on the entire game

There's a reason for that.

It's because the Normandy and the crew on it was the 'face' of each of their respective races. They were the personal, individual element given to us, as the player, and to Shepard, as a means of helping connect to those races. To care about their fate. The galaxy at large, and the billions in it are only an ephemeral ideal to fight for. Garrus, Tali, Thane, Liara/Samara/Morinth, Ash/Kaidan/Jack/Miri/Jacob/Kasumi/Zaeed, Legion, Wrex/Grunt, even EDI. They're representative of their races.

It is absolutely natural and normal for a player to care more for these single individuals than some ideal, the faceless masses we never see, that our Shepard did not fight and bleed with. We were encouraged to build these bonds, it was the entire point of them being there, in fact. A literary device.

So, I don't find it a shallow reason to hate on the entire game. The squad is a large portion of the experience. Not so much in a romance aspect, but in all aspects.

[recentio]

Aesieru wrote...

recentio wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

curelightwounds wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

You see a wasteland, and I see possibilities.

How many years will it take for Galactic Civilization to reach the level it was before the Reapers?

I see the advancement in technology to do so, the search for new resources, attempts at harnessin or recreatin the Reapers. Species survivin, workin together, and/or tryin to establish dominance. The Galaxy is waitin to be rediscovered.

I would be tempted to be with you and swallow these endings IF there was some kind of official announcement of another Mass Effect game, some hint that I could ctrl+z and try to make things work out better.

As it stands there is no such thing and no such hope. This is, for all intents, the end of the story.

It feels like I'm being asked to choose a life in 1984, Animal Farm, and Burmese Days. Why would I even bother?

If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

The plot of this game is the same as 1,000 other sci-fi stories. It's the characters that made the story unique and memorable. Of course I care more about the characers. They have a lot of very human qualities. Why would I ever value imaginary space battles more than the insightful humanity of a well-written character? The bulk of ME1 and ME2 are character recruitment and character loyalty -- both very personal stories for those squadmates. The characters are essential components of the game for a lot of players. Not all, but a lot.

The plot is the entirety of the galaxy, the lore, the reason it exists. The characters exist within the plot, not despite it.

If you understand how the Reapers are protecting the galaxy, how the removal of the relays is the destruction of the prison, and the underlying parts about them, if you play ME3 and understand it, then you will know and you'll see it's not a bad ending.

ALlowing the relays to survive would be a bad idea.

Okay, I think we're talking about two different points here. I like the destruction of the relays, honestly. It's very poetic. It changes civilization, but it seems very fitting.

However, that does not excuse marooning the Normandy on some sh** planet. That is a totally different choice from relay destruction that the writers willfully chose to tie together inexorably. Destroy the relays? Sure. That's a nice finale. Very moving. Destroy Shepard's connection to his team and LI? No. No no no no no nononononoNONONO!

Planet Deliverance is not okay.

[Kyria Nyriese]

From my understanding, the Guardian controls the Reapers, however is completely unable to do anything. I don't quite get it, the Guardian is trapped within the Citadel, is a part of the Citadel.

[Kanmuru]

GDK wrote...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

Symbolism. The reapers "gave" us the technology if were gonna be free from their genocide we must make our own path. I understand you would prefer a pragmatic choice but the symbolic aproach makes sense from a literary point of view.

Think of it as a "coming of age"  for the galaxy, you have to leave your parents house to make a future of your own (although these "parents" are genocidal aliens i this case )

[Aesieru]

RazorrX wrote...

The trap is that the reapers would jump into citadel space, sieze it, access all data on the civilized races and then shut down the relay network. This would cause the galaxy to lose communications as well as fast travel. They then began wiping out systems 1 at a time. That is how the trap worked.

The trap was also that the alien races would have no technology diverging from that which they had already mastered and had means to counter. The only reason we do now is because we reverse engineered the bits and pieces from Sovereign and even then we need everything to take them on.

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

You know this is kinda embarrassing for me, but screw it I'll say it. I've focused so much energy on these rather miserable sounding endings over the last couple of days. I've started to get horrible nightmares about the universe and I've never dreamed about Mass Effect before. Bioware is going to emotionally scar me with this game lol

[Aesieru]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

K, I think I'm missing something, what does everyone mean by 'the Guardian'?

  



The ruler of the Reapers is the Guardian

No. You misunderstand. The Guardian is more a protocol.

[Bomb In My Pants]

RazorrX wrote...

The trap is that the reapers would jump into citadel space, sieze it, access all data on the civilized races and then shut down the relay network. This would cause the galaxy to lose communications as well as fast travel. They then began wiping out systems 1 at a time. That is how the trap worked.

It is not reliant upon that. If you can control where the enemy goes, it doesn't matter how restricted they are within that space. Not to mention the fact that the Reapers are far more militarily superior to everything else..... Besides, what's to stop them from getting to the Citadel the old fashioned way?

[Aesieru]

Kanmuru wrote...

GDK wrote...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

Symbolism. The reapers "gave" us the technology if were gonna be free from their genocide we must make our own path. I understand you would prefer a pragmatic choice but the symbolic aproach makes sense from a literary point of view.

Think of it as a "coming of age"  for the galaxy, you have to leave your parents house to make a future of your own (although these "parents" are genocidal aliens i this case )

The relays also prevent the need for diverging from that technology and developing different technologies.

[Rdubs]

albertalad wrote...

Here is a particular biting review of ME 3.

http://www.darkreign...-endings-leaked

I found this one to be HILARIOUS.  Couldn't stop laughing at some of his terminology or presentation.
For some reason however, the direct link no longer works - it gives you 404.  Instead here is the Google cached version.  if you google "mass effect 3 ending joker **** buddy" (replace **** with a four-letter F word) you can also find other pastes of the text.  Don't ask my why those are the key words I remember from it LOL.

http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

Modifié par Rdubs, 03 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[Bomb In My Pants]

albertalad wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Right, i have a computer - I don't follow the computer - I have the conputer serve my needs. In ME folks use relays to serve their needs not follow them. Which is very clearly shown in ME 1 why Soverign attacked trying to gain control. As in ME 3 the Reapers did NOT use relays then where exactly is that trap? In fact the rest of the orhanics and geth have reversed the process and are using them to attack the Reapers - some trap!

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

[Tric]

HiddenKING wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's what really bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

I think that if Bioware wanted to move away from the Normandy and it's crew. To close the chapter on them too, they could have done somethin better than "lol crash" I would much prefer if they died in battle, at least that way their sacrifice would mean somethin. But then again people would complain about them dyin. It's not a perfect endin for your team, but one can hope things turnout well for them.

That's the thing. It very probably doesn't.

The colony is not viable, not unless they're planning on forcing/pressuring/asking every single woman on the ship to get pregnant repeatedly for as long as they're fertile and even then (if you can get past what feels like rape to me) they'd need to be extremely lucky for the results of those pregnancies to have the right genetic makeup to keep the genepool.

And even that's practically impossible to do without a large enough number of people, far larger than the number of crew member on the Normandy, unless for some reason a ship that can be maned in combat situation by 12 people + 1 AI is crewed by around 100 people.

So unless they're rescued or there's already colonys on that planet... Things don't look good to me.

*Edit for grammar, stupid 5am.

Modifié par SomethingSome, 03 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[HiddenKING]

deleted

Modifié par HiddenKING, 03 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[GDK]

Kanmuru wrote...

GDK wrote...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

Symbolism. The reapers "gave" us the technology if were gonna be free from their genocide we must make our own path. I understand you would prefer a pragmatic choice but the symbolic aproach makes sense from a literary point of view.

Think of it as a "coming of age"  for the galaxy, you have to leave your parents house to make a future of your own (although these "parents" are genocidal aliens i this case )

I understand that. But it still seems to favor overly-symbolistic writing instead of... well, common sense.

[Bomb In My Pants]

Aesieru wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

K, I think I'm missing something, what does everyone mean by 'the Guardian'?

End of ME3, when you choose the ending.

You meet the Guardian which tells you about the Reapers a bit.

If you look at the thread about what the Reapers are with SPOILER in the front and back of it, you'll see what they said.

K, thank you.

[AgitatedLemon]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

For the buildup to ME3, they didn't use any relays. They just sort of flew here from Dark Space.

They had planned to use the Alpha relay, but then Shepard slammed an asteroid into it.

[Kanmuru]

recentio wrote...


Okay, I think we're talking about two different points here. I like the destruction of the relays, honestly. It's very poetic. It changes civilization, but it seems very fitting.

However, that does not excuse marooning the Normandy on some sh** planet. That is a totally different choice from relay destruction that the writers willfully chose to tie together inexorably. Destroy the relays? Sure. That's a nice finale. Very moving. Destroy Shepard's connection to his team and LI? No. No no no no no nononononoNONONO!

Planet Deliverance is not okay.

Ill say this for the 94586th time, if they only change the fate of the normandy 99% of the drama going on would vanish lol

Honestly i wouldnt mind (actually i would like) if they did that. But when i think of ME3 as a game, as the last part of the trilogy i believe this ending is amazing. Bioware did a good job and they dont deserve most of the grief were giving them...

Right now i give this game a 9.7 for story (if they save the normandy it would be a 10 lol)

[Bomb In My Pants]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

For the buildup to ME3, they didn't use any relays. They just sort of flew here from Dark Space.

They had planned to use the Alpha relay, but then Shepard slammed an asteroid into it.

Yes, until they reached teh nearest relay. Hence why I said the trap is not reliant upon the Keepers, that was simply something to help ease the Reapers.