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[Blablabla79]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...
....

The Citadel is the trap! The AI on Ilos never uses the word trap in conjunction with the relays.

[albertalad]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

albertalad wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Right, i have a computer - I don't follow the computer - I have the conputer serve my needs. In ME folks use relays to serve their needs not follow them. Which is very clearly shown in ME 1 why Soverign attacked trying to gain control. As in ME 3 the Reapers did NOT use relays then where exactly is that trap? In fact the rest of the orhanics and geth have reversed the process and are using them to attack the Reapers - some trap!

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

Lol - they tried and Sheppard took that opition away. Which then leads to the question how did they get from dark space? The Citadel WAS their relay into present space but the Protiens removed that option as well.

[Bomb In My Pants]

Blablabla79 wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...
....

The Citadel is the trap! The AI on Ilos never uses the word trap in conjunction with the relays.

*face palm* the Citadel is part of the Relay system. Besides, even if he did not say that, can you not figure that out for yourself.

I do not want to lose the relays either, but they are a trap. I am all for saving them if possible, but they WERE designed as a trap.

[KMYash]

Maera Imrov wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

My point stands that if there was a way to save the normandy, 99% of complainers here would go away. This is a shallow reason to hate on the entire game

There's a reason for that.

It's because the Normandy and the crew on it was the 'face' of each of their respective races. They were the personal, individual element given to us, as the player, and to Shepard, as a means of helping connect to those races. To care about their fate. The galaxy at large, and the billions in it are only an ephemeral ideal to fight for. Garrus, Tali, Thane, Liara/Samara/Morinth, Ash/Kaidan/Jack/Miri/Jacob/Kasumi/Zaeed, Legion, Wrex/Grunt, even EDI. They're representative of their races.

It is absolutely natural and normal for a player to care more for these single individuals than some ideal, the faceless masses we never see, that our Shepard did not fight and bleed with. We were encouraged to build these bonds, it was the entire point of them being there, in fact. A literary device.

So, I don't find it a shallow reason to hate on the entire game. The squad is a large portion of the experience. Not so much in a romance aspect, but in all aspects.

It's like Mordin said, hard to visualize entire galaxy but easy to think of favorite nephew or in this case favorite characters. Bioware gave us all these characters from different races so we weren't just focused on saving humanity but all races. So by saving the Quarians we're saving Tali, saving Wrex/Grunt the Krogan.

[HiddenKING]

SomethingSome wrote...

HiddenKING wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's what really bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

I think that if Bioware wanted to move away from the Normandy and it's crew. To close the chapter on them too, they could have done somethin better than "lol crash" I would much prefer if they died in battle, at least that way their sacrifice would mean somethin. But then again people would complain about them dyin. It's not a perfect endin for your team, but one can hope things turnout well for them.

That's the thing. It very probably doesn't.

The colony is not viable, not unless they're planning on forcing/pressuring/asking every single woman on the ship to get pregnant repeatedly for as long as they're fertile and even then (if you can get past what feels like rape to me) they'd need to be extremely lucky for the results of those pregnancies to have the right genetic make up to keep the genepool.

And even that's practically impossible to do without a very large enough number of people, far larger than the number of crew member on the Normandy, unless for some reason a ship that can be maned in combat situation by 12 people + 1 AI is crewed by around 100 people.

So unless they're rescued or there's already colonys on that planet... Things don't look good to me.

Like I said if Bioware meant for the ending of ME3 to be the final chapter of Shepard, the Normandy, and it's crew. They could have done better. I'd rather they died in battle than in some unknown world. But Bioware knows that such an endin would cause fan upheaveal, not that this alternative is any better. Bad written? Yes, but it's necessary.

Modifié par HiddenKING, 03 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Aesieru]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

For the buildup to ME3, they didn't use any relays. They just sort of flew here from Dark Space.

They had planned to use the Alpha relay, but then Shepard slammed an asteroid into it.

In arrival it was said they'd go to the next nearest relay but that could be months or years. The reapers are fast though.

They used the nearest closest relay which apparently took them through Batarian space and hit them good. Then they went about reaping.

---


What NORMALLY would of happened would be:

Sovereign: Alright, races are ready for reaping.
*Sends signal to Citadel*

Harbinger: WAKE UP!
*Signal Received*

Citadel: *Opens access to relay and summons all the reapers on the unsuspecting council and defense fleets*

Reapers: *Shut down all access to relays outside of their own usage and begin killing off everyone*.

That's the ideal use of them.

[Blablabla79]

Aesieru wrote...

If you already have a means of quick travel, why would you discover new ways? Idleness and stagnation breed contempt.

The ME3 plot lines already establish and reinforce this and the Guardian does too.

After the discovery of nuclear power, why were scientists still looking for different ways to generate energy? 

And: PEOPLE ARE CURIOUS! THEY WANT TO KNOW! 

What if there is NO other way to travel faster? What if people actually did the research and found, nope, nothing faster then mass relays?

[RazorrX]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

Blablabla79 wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...
....

The Citadel is the trap! The AI on Ilos never uses the word trap in conjunction with the relays.

*face palm* the Citadel is part of the Relay system. Besides, even if he did not say that, can you not figure that out for yourself.

I do not want to lose the relays either, but they are a trap. I am all for saving them if possible, but they WERE designed as a trap.

yes they were.  but if we could beat the reapers without destroying them would it not be better?  Some say no, but I say yes.  Travel and communication would be the same, we could then purposely look for new avenues of technology rather than be thrown backwards first.

[Erode_The_Soul]

I sincerely cannot believe that Bioware has done what they have to the Normandy and crew (provided what has been leaked is true and the only options). Losing Shepard was something I was bracing myself for, but I refuse to accept the loss of the Normandy. This is a dealbreaker for me, regardless of context.

And to not even have one ending where Shep and crew can remain together is unsettling.

[Bomb In My Pants]

albertalad wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

albertalad wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
If you would try to understand the plot rather than your major love for the characters, you would then realize that the ending is very good.

Even what happens to the Normandy?

Sincerally that's all that bothers me, it actually makes my stomach curl.

That is a major sticking point with me, though the Relays being destroyed is also something I'm not all that happy with.  We are fighting to save the galaxy, and we do that by setting it back hundreds if not thousands of years.

THE RELAYS ARE A PRISON OF THE REAPERS

No they aren't.

Vigil clearly says the relays and Citadel are a trap.

Right, i have a computer - I don't follow the computer - I have the conputer serve my needs. In ME folks use relays to serve their needs not follow them. Which is very clearly shown in ME 1 why Soverign attacked trying to gain control. As in ME 3 the Reapers did NOT use relays then where exactly is that trap? In fact the rest of the orhanics and geth have reversed the process and are using them to attack the Reapers - some trap!

The Reapers most definately DID use the relays. I'm starting to think EVERYONE has forgotten Arrival already.

Lol - they tried and Sheppard took that opition away. Which then leads to the question how did they get from dark space? The Citadel WAS their relay into present space but the Protiens removed that option as well.

K, I will lay this out for you.

Option 1- Keepers activate Citadel relay. The prothean scientists stationed on Ilos took that option away, and when Sovereign starting killing junk, he realized he'd have to activate it himself.

Option 2- Sovereign, he blew up, so Reapers are like "D*** it!*, and start to make their way to closest relay.

Optioin 3- Alpha Relay- Shep blows it up, so the REapers are like "D*** it again!" So, they go to the NEXT closest relay, hence why it took a few months to get there. From there, they begin the Reaping process.

[Marta Rio]

Kanmuru wrote...

Ill say this for the 94586th time, if they only change the fate of the normandy 99% of the drama going on would vanish lol

Well then, that's a strong case for them to change it, since it would take almost no work to do it (just put Earth's moon in the skyline after the crash instead of the dual moons) and it would put the kibosh on months and months of fan whining.

[Kanmuru]

GDK wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

GDK wrote...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

Symbolism. The reapers "gave" us the technology if were gonna be free from their genocide we must make our own path. I understand you would prefer a pragmatic choice but the symbolic aproach makes sense from a literary point of view.

Think of it as a "coming of age"  for the galaxy, you have to leave your parents house to make a future of your own (although these "parents" are genocidal aliens i this case )

I understand that. But it still seems to favor overly-symbolistic writing instead of... well, common sense.

oh well lol thats a problem for much of ME series then.(seriously, destroying the reaper base is a stuuuuupid decision, i cant imagine how anyone inteligent person in real life would make that choice, they should just give us an option to give the base to the aliance/consil).

I guess our main diference is how we choose to see the game, i prefer a poetic/literary aproach and you focus on maximun immersion and having things make as much sense as possible (like i said a clash of worldviews)

[Aesieru]

RazorrX wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

Blablabla79 wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...
....

The Citadel is the trap! The AI on Ilos never uses the word trap in conjunction with the relays.

*face palm* the Citadel is part of the Relay system. Besides, even if he did not say that, can you not figure that out for yourself.

I do not want to lose the relays either, but they are a trap. I am all for saving them if possible, but they WERE designed as a trap.

yes they were.  but if we could beat the reapers without destroying them would it not be better?  Some say no, but I say yes.  Travel and communication would be the same, we could then purposely look for new avenues of technology rather than be thrown backwards first.

With a means of technology already present you have no need to look elsewhere, you become trapped and eventually you fall into the Technology Singularity and we all die.

[Blablabla79]

Aesieru wrote...
...

What NORMALLY would of happened would be:

Sovereign: Alright, races are ready for reaping.
*Sends signal to Citadel*

Harbinger: WAKE UP!
*Signal Received*

Citadel: *Opens access to relay and summons all the reapers on the unsuspecting council and defense fleets*

Reapers: *Shut down all access to relays outside of their own usage and begin killing off everyone*.

That's the ideal use of them.

If FTL is possible without the mass relays, then nothing will stop people from leaving the systems. 

Aesieru wrote...
...

With a means of technology already present you have no need to look elsewhere, you become trapped and eventually you fall into the Technology Singularity and we all die.

The view is WAY TOO NARROW!

Modifié par Blablabla79, 03 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Blablabla79]

delete post please

Modifié par Blablabla79, 03 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Aesieru]

Kanmuru wrote...

GDK wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

GDK wrote...

See,  TOTALLY get that. So I understand where BW got the idea... but if the Reapers are GONE at the end... why would their old trap matter?

Symbolism. The reapers "gave" us the technology if were gonna be free from their genocide we must make our own path. I understand you would prefer a pragmatic choice but the symbolic aproach makes sense from a literary point of view.

Think of it as a "coming of age"  for the galaxy, you have to leave your parents house to make a future of your own (although these "parents" are genocidal aliens i this case )

I understand that. But it still seems to favor overly-symbolistic writing instead of... well, common sense.

oh well lol thats a problem for much of ME series then.(seriously, destroying the reaper base is a stuuuuupid decision, i cant imagine how anyone inteligent person in real life would make that choice, they should just give us an option to give the base to the aliance/consil).

I guess our main diference is how we choose to see the game, i prefer a poetic/literary aproach and you focus on maximun immersion and having things make as much sense as possible (like i said a clash of worldviews)

Destroying the collector base that requires lives to harvest to use most of their technology and is an abomination of genetic engineering? Yes we should keep that...

That's like coming upon Sith Artifacts and saying OH THESE ARE POWERFUL, let's keep them.

Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Bomb In My Pants]

RazorrX wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...

Blablabla79 wrote...

Bomb In My Pants wrote...
....

The Citadel is the trap! The AI on Ilos never uses the word trap in conjunction with the relays.

*face palm* the Citadel is part of the Relay system. Besides, even if he did not say that, can you not figure that out for yourself.

I do not want to lose the relays either, but they are a trap. I am all for saving them if possible, but they WERE designed as a trap.

yes they were.  but if we could beat the reapers without destroying them would it not be better?  Some say no, but I say yes.  Travel and communication would be the same, we could then purposely look for new avenues of technology rather than be thrown backwards first.

Did I not JUSt say " I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THE RELAYS EITHER...." ..." I AM ALL FOR SAVING THEM IF POSSIBLE..."

I am not saying it is not possible. That is why there are multiple endings.

[Aesieru]

Blablabla79 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
...

What NORMALLY would of happened would be:

Sovereign: Alright, races are ready for reaping.
*Sends signal to Citadel*

Harbinger: WAKE UP!
*Signal Received*

Citadel: *Opens access to relay and summons all the reapers on the unsuspecting council and defense fleets*

Reapers: *Shut down all access to relays outside of their own usage and begin killing off everyone*.

That's the ideal use of them.

If FTL is possible without the mass relays, then nothing will stop people from leaving the systems. 

FTL to get from solar system to another solar system takes thousands of years. Trying getting out of a quadrant of even part of the galaxy with that, much less to dark space, much less to another galaxy.

You'll be dead.

[Aesieru]

Blablabla79 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...
...

What NORMALLY would of happened would be:

Sovereign: Alright, races are ready for reaping.
*Sends signal to Citadel*

Harbinger: WAKE UP!
*Signal Received*

Citadel: *Opens access to relay and summons all the reapers on the unsuspecting council and defense fleets*

Reapers: *Shut down all access to relays outside of their own usage and begin killing off everyone*.

That's the ideal use of them.

If FTL is possible without the mass relays, then nothing will stop people from leaving the systems. 

Aesieru wrote...
...

With a means of technology already present you have no need to look elsewhere, you become trapped and eventually you fall into the Technology Singularity and we all die.

The view is WAY TOO NARROW!

Oh really?

The fact that it'd take thousands upon thousands of years to even get a little out of them would do it, and the fac tyou can still be tracked would mean you'd be eaten by the Reapers as you tried to flee.

---

AS for my narrow view... just look at the history of society, without a reason to do something or diverge or advance, we never do. Wars incite us to advance things we'd never have the drive or finances for otherwise. So do droughts, and natural disasters and other such events.

People need a reason, else they grow stagnant.

Modifié par Aesieru, 03 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[Witty_Remark]

Kanmuru wrote...

oh well lol thats a problem for much of ME series then.(seriously, destroying the reaper base is a stuuuuupid decision, i cant imagine how anyone inteligent person in real life would make that choice, they should just give us an option to give the base to the aliance/consil).

I guess our main diference is how we choose to see the game, i prefer a poetic/literary aproach and you focus on maximun immersion and having things make as much sense as possible (like i said a clash of worldviews)

I don't understand why Bioware couldn't have implemented both. To allow an ending where everything was in ruins but Shepard was with his/her friends would not have invalidated all the other options.

[Tric]

HiddenKING wrote...
Like I said if Bioware meant for the ending of ME3 to be the final chapter of Shepard, the Normandy, and it's crew. They could have done better. I'd rather they died in battle than in some unknown world. But Bioware knows that such an endin would cause fan upheaveal, not that this alternative is any better. Bad written? Yes, but it's necessary.

I get that, I really do.
I understand the need for an end but this end is simply sadistic and, as it stands, it's far better to get them all killed off if you can which is what I'll be doing, if I can since I want to do the side quests anyhow, Steve and Diana at least I'll always "save" from Deliverance Planet.

[Kanmuru]

Marta Rio wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

Ill say this for the 94586th time, if they only change the fate of the normandy 99% of the drama going on would vanish lol

Well then, that's a strong case for them to change it, since it would take almost no work to do it (just put Earth's moon in the skyline after the crash instead of the dual moons) and it would put the kibosh on months and months of fan whining.

Honestly i dont give a crap that people are butthurt over the normandy (i am too a little bit), but i get angry when they choose to attack the ENTIRE GAME or Bioware because of it. Theres plenty of great things to aprecieate about ME3 and there is no need to devalue the entire game because of 1 aspect of the ending that hurts you.


But i think they secretly enjoy hearing us raging and moaning, thats the only way to cope with all of it 

Modifié par Kanmuru, 03 mars 2012 - 05:27 .

[Aesieru]

Witty_Remark wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

oh well lol thats a problem for much of ME series then.(seriously, destroying the reaper base is a stuuuuupid decision, i cant imagine how anyone inteligent person in real life would make that choice, they should just give us an option to give the base to the aliance/consil).

I guess our main diference is how we choose to see the game, i prefer a poetic/literary aproach and you focus on maximun immersion and having things make as much sense as possible (like i said a clash of worldviews)

I don't understand why Bioware couldn't have implemented both. To allow an ending where everything was in ruins but Shepard was with his/her friends would not have invalidated all the other options.

The lack of personal sacrifice.

I think we all knew that Shephard had to die if he was taking on the most deadly thing, he sacrifices himself for the greater good, one way or the other.

[Xilizhra]

Honestly i dont give a crap that people are butthurt over the normandy (i am too a little bit), but i get angry when they choose to attack the ENTIRE GAME or Bioware because of it. Theres plenty of great things to aprecieate about ME3 and there is no need to devalue the entire game because of 1 aspect of the ending that hurts you.

We aren't attacking you, why do you care? It's hardly your fault that the ending completely shafts the entire series.

[RazorrX]

Bomb In My Pants wrote...


Did I not JUSt say " I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THE RELAYS EITHER...." ..." I AM ALL FOR SAVING THEM IF POSSIBLE..."

I am not saying it is not possible. That is why there are multiple endings.

and the whole thread is a complaint that the 'multiple' endings are really pretty much the same.  Red green or blue explosions.  all relays gone, etc. because instead of letting us fight like the first two games seemed to indicate,they gave  us the super space gun instead.

AND strand the ship without me.  

AND joker lives and I die dammit!  That SOB got me killed twice!