101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Phoenix NL]

Lestatman wrote...

Would it be too much for someone at Bioware, even Mr. Gamble himself to have a quick adult mature conversation with someone say like from HTL with regards to the ending and what's happening at the moment. We don't need to get exact details or facts about what their doing because ppl will dissect any info they get either from PR statements or tweets which I personally don't think are best form of communication to dissect.

Or has there been and I've missed it?

It's a bit hard for them to have a conversation about it when they probably haven't finalized anything themselves. I think we will get more details when they have them.

[Goodwood]

g_bassi13 wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

Would it be too much for someone at Bioware, even Mr. Gamble himself to have a quick adult mature conversation with someone say like from HTL with regards to the ending and what's happening at the moment. We don't need to get exact details or facts about what their doing because ppl will dissect any info they get either from PR statements or tweets which I personally don't think are best form of communication to dissect.

Or has there been and I've missed it?

You're right. And no you haven't missed anything. But I doubt they want to have that convo.

They won't have that conversation. They can't. And they know it.

That's why they've taken to Twitter (gosh, there were a lot of T-words in that clause), because they can belt out one- or two-line non-answers with the ease of...well...belting out a two-line blurb about their favourite breakfast cereal. Twitter is a PR rep's dream come true, because people seem to follow it incessently and all you need do is put out a few juicy tidbits here and there to keep them coming back. And that's just an outsider's take, someone who absolutely refuses to hook into the site and usually doesn't care to click on updates (I've clicked on more Twitter blurbs stemming from this movement and linked in this thread than all other instances combined).

At this point it's just a matter of holding the line until the Extended Cut DLC comes out. Then we'll know for sure if BioWare and the rEApers have committed "Brokering Solutions but Offering Stonewalls" or, as athunter put it: "Sudden Death."

[Lestatman]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

Would it be too much for someone at Bioware, even Mr. Gamble himself to have a quick adult mature conversation with someone say like from HTL with regards to the ending and what's happening at the moment. We don't need to get exact details or facts about what their doing because ppl will dissect any info they get either from PR statements or tweets which I personally don't think are best form of communication to dissect.

Or has there been and I've missed it?

It's a bit hard for them to have a conversation about it when they probably haven't finalized anything themselves. I think we will get more details when they have them.

Agree that's why I said we don't need to get exact details or facts with regards to the EC DLC but if they are willing to talk about other specific things on Twitter or release PR statements then surely a polite nice coversation with someone over those issues that they can talk about would be better than ppl taking offence or feeling their being attacked on Twitter etc.

Again it's just a personal thing where I would rather see/hear a conversation rather than reading twitter posts or statments.

[Phoenix NL]

Lestatman wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

Would it be too much for someone at Bioware, even Mr. Gamble himself to have a quick adult mature conversation with someone say like from HTL with regards to the ending and what's happening at the moment. We don't need to get exact details or facts about what their doing because ppl will dissect any info they get either from PR statements or tweets which I personally don't think are best form of communication to dissect.

Or has there been and I've missed it?

It's a bit hard for them to have a conversation about it when they probably haven't finalized anything themselves. I think we will get more details when they have them.

Agree that's why I said we don't need to get exact details or facts with regards to the EC DLC but if they are willing to talk about other specific things on Twitter or release PR statements then surely a polite nice coversation with someone over those issues that they can talk about would be better than ppl taking offence or feeling their being attacked on Twitter etc.

Again it's just a personal thing where I would rather see/hear a conversation rather than reading twitter posts or statments.

I agree with that. It would be nice to get some clear answers instead of this nonsense on Twitter.

[GroverA125]

Synthesis isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is what is expected of the development of any sentient species. Much like the whole Deus Ex "half-synthetic human" is part of it as well. The problem isn't in the idea, but it's in the implementation. People should have a choice to do so, as they would with the development cycle of our species. When mobile phones or the internet was invented, nobody was forced to accept it into their lives. The fact that you are FORCEFULLY merging everyone together into a pot is wrong, the fact that everyone will one day become sytho-organ hybrids is not. By doing so, we destroy their culture and way of life, which is cultural genocide. If they were given time, they could move their culture into the new way of life, but they can't do that in an instant.

In other words, if everyone had the choice to become synthetic-organic hybrids, that would be fine. The fact that one man is choosing for every organic being in the galaxy makes it as immoral as physically possible.

[Major Swift]

g_bassi13 wrote...

Don't try thinking about it. Gamble probably considers you trying to analyze his comments as an attack on him.

still haven't figured out how any of that yesterday was an "attack", looked pretty civil/people were curious

Modifié par Major Swift, 26 avril 2012 - 11:45 .

[GroverA125]

Goodwood wrote...

They won't have that conversation. They can't. And they know it.

That's why they've taken to Twitter (gosh, there were a lot of T-words in that clause), because they can belt out one- or two-line non-answers with the ease of...well...belting out a two-line blurb about their favourite breakfast cereal. Twitter is a PR rep's dream come true, because people seem to follow it incessently and all you need do is put out a few juicy tidbits here and there to keep them coming back. And that's just an outsider's take, someone who absolutely refuses to hook into the site and usually doesn't care to click on updates (I've clicked on more Twitter blurbs stemming from this movement and linked in this thread than all other instances combined).

At this point it's just a matter of holding the line until the Extended Cut DLC comes out. Then we'll know for sure if BioWare and the rEApers have committed "Brokering Solutions but Offering Stonewalls" or, as athunter put it: "Sudden Death."

That's the thing. They have to expect us to keep fighting. Not one Bioware representative has came in here, sat us down and said "don't worry, we're doing all that we can to resolve this peacefully for all sides. Please, we are listening to you guys and we're trying hard to give you what you want, while keeping those who like the endings happy". If they did, we would all have droning on and giving them negative rep. If they'd sit with us and assure us that they are working on giving US (not the community in general, not the pro-enders, just us), then we know that they are, instead they leave us to run riot.

The moment a Bioware dev team member, or PR employee walks into this thread and tells us we can rest easy, not with Aes-Sedai tongue or just hinting towards it. I will happily begin trusting Bioware once again. The fact is, if they'd actually done that, none of this would have happened. Thousands of gamers wouldn't have sold their copies, companies wouldn't be offering full refunds, the entire game review industry wouldn't be split in two and their game wouldn't be selling for £25 in less than a week. they've brought all the hell on themselves by not trying hard enough to calm us down. THAT, is what saddens me the most. They took an opportunity where they could have boosted their reputation through the roof, and turned it into a moment where their new game is a farce to the gaming industry.

I mean, how many of you here would still be on this forum <curse redacted> about them being a shoddy company who betray their fanbase and sold their soul to EA if they did?

PS: What's this "attack" you're going on about Swifty? What did I miss?

Modifié par GroverA125, 26 avril 2012 - 11:59 .

[Phoenix NL]

GroverA125 wrote...

That's the thing. They have to expect us to keep fighting. Not one Bioware representative has came in here, sat us down and said "don't worry, we're doing all that we can to resolve this peacefully for all sides. Please, we are listening to you guys and we're trying hard to give you what you want, while keeping those who like the endings happy". If they did, we would all have droning on and giving them negative rep. If they'd sit with us and assure us that they are working on giving US (not the community in general, not the pro-enders, just us), then we know that they are, instead they leave us to run riot.

*snip*

Well Jessica did try to calm the situation in the beginning and tell everyone that they were listening and that she was working to pass our concerns onto the dev team and people ripped into her.

[DJBare]

GroverA125 wrote...

Synthesis isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is what is expected of the development of any sentient species. Much like the whole Deus Ex "half-synthetic human" is part of it as well. The problem isn't in the idea, but it's in the implementation. People should have a choice to do so, as they would with the development cycle of our species. When mobile phones or the internet was invented, nobody was forced to accept it into their lives. The fact that you are FORCEFULLY merging everyone together into a pot is wrong, the fact that everyone will one day become sytho-organ hybrids is not. By doing so, we destroy their culture and way of life, which is cultural genocide. If they were given time, they could move their culture into the new way of life, but they can't do that in an instant.

In other words, if everyone had the choice to become synthetic-organic hybrids, that would be fine. The fact that one man is choosing for every organic being in the galaxy makes it as immoral as physically possible.

Yup, basically what I was saying earlier, evolution should be the deciding factor not the will of one person, if synthesis is the eventual outcome of evolution then it will because nature decides it's the strongest way to continue(excuse anthropomorphising nature), but I've always been of the belief "What does not kill you, makes you stronger"; evolution is about mutation and adaptation, discarding the weak for the strong.

[Major Swift]

Phoenix NL wrote...
Well Jessica did try to calm the situation in the beginning and tell everyone that they were listening and that she was working to pass our concerns onto the dev team and people ripped into her.

I still hate the fact that people did that to her as i honestly believe this is exactly what she was doing; passing everything along to the team as thats her job to speak for the community (even if she did disagree with us, she was passing everything on)

Modifié par Major Swift, 26 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[GroverA125]

Phoenix NL wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

That's the thing. They have to expect us to keep fighting. Not one Bioware representative has came in here, sat us down and said "don't worry, we're doing all that we can to resolve this peacefully for all sides. Please, we are listening to you guys and we're trying hard to give you what you want, while keeping those who like the endings happy". If they did, we would all have droning on and giving them negative rep. If they'd sit with us and assure us that they are working on giving US (not the community in general, not the pro-enders, just us), then we know that they are, instead they leave us to run riot.

*snip*

Well Jessica did try to calm the situation in the beginning and tell everyone that they were listening and that she was working to pass our concerns onto the dev team and people ripped into her.

Not my point, that's Aes-Sedai tongue. Her words could be used in a way which granted her, and Bioware in general, deniability. I mean if they say it plain and clear that they are working to try to keep us happy. A completely truthful, transparent post which could not even possbily be denied later is what they would need to do to keep us from continuing, saying something where they could later say "well we said <insert promising quote here>, but if you read the text properly, it says we MIGHT have. We never said we would".

She told us something that had no real ground, it's like me telling my son "maybe" when he asks to go to the cinema, I can say no at any time, I haven't promised anything. While it's different from "no" it still doesn't mean that he can begin to think what type of popcorn he wants, or what film to watch. Also, as Swifty above me posted, she never said that she or they were going to do anything about it, she simply said that they were "listening to our feedback", at no point does that telling us that they are using our feedback, it just says they are looking at it. Much like if I asked you to pick the ball from one of three cups, me saying that "I like the cup on the right" doesn't mean that there's anything in it.

Modifié par GroverA125, 26 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[Major Swift]

GroverA125 wrote...
*snip*
PS: What's this "attack" you're going on about Swifty? What did I miss?

basically it boiled down to Gamble saying synthesis was his favorite ending in his opinion/it solved all problems/struggle between organics and synthetics was a main theme throughout ME, people asked how that was (myself included) as no one really sees that as a main/key theme, then he said he was done with twitter for the night because of attacks and such when there was just curiousity/civil discussion ( i saw no attacks at the time)
tweet of mine he answered if you missed it https://twitter.com/...335942641426432 he deleted the tweet im replying to in this which pretty much said what i bolded above

[GroverA125]

Major Swift wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...
*snip*
PS: What's this "attack" you're going on about Swifty? What did I miss?

basically it boiled down to Gamble saying synthesis was his favorite ending in his opinion/it solved all problems/struggle between organics and synthetics was a main theme throughout ME, people asked how that was (myself included) as no one really sees that as a main/key theme, then he said he was done with twitter for the night because of attacks and such when there was just curiousity/civil discussion ( i saw no attacks at the time)
tweet of mine he answered if you missed it https://twitter.com/...335942641426432 he deleted the tweet im replying to in this which pretty much said what i bolded above

Rubbish, that's not an attack, that's someone asking you to expand on your opinion. If I say I like the M-99 Saber, I can and should expect someone to ask me as to why I like it, should I have not explained why. I wouldn't then immediately assume that everyone in the thread is attacking me, I would assume that he wants to hear why I like it, or why I think it is better than <insert weapon here>. If he then went on to criticize me for liking it over another, then that would be an "attack".

[Calamity]

GroverA125 wrote...

Synthesis isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is what is expected of the development of any sentient species. Much like the whole Deus Ex "half-synthetic human" is part of it as well. The problem isn't in the idea, but it's in the implementation. People should have a choice to do so, as they would with the development cycle of our species. When mobile phones or the internet was invented, nobody was forced to accept it into their lives. The fact that you are FORCEFULLY merging everyone together into a pot is wrong, the fact that everyone will one day become sytho-organ hybrids is not. By doing so, we destroy their culture and way of life, which is cultural genocide. If they were given time, they could move their culture into the new way of life, but they can't do that in an instant.

In other words, if everyone had the choice to become synthetic-organic hybrids, that would be fine. The fact that one man is choosing for every organic being in the galaxy makes it as immoral as physically possible.

This reminds me of the conversation you have with Mordin in ME2 regarding the Collectors and what the Reapers did to them...of course leading to culture and songs and Mordin singing but the information gathered from that is great. How if there is no culture - a species stagnates and there is no growth.

[Phoenix NL]

Calamity wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

Synthesis isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is what is expected of the development of any sentient species. Much like the whole Deus Ex "half-synthetic human" is part of it as well. The problem isn't in the idea, but it's in the implementation. People should have a choice to do so, as they would with the development cycle of our species. When mobile phones or the internet was invented, nobody was forced to accept it into their lives. The fact that you are FORCEFULLY merging everyone together into a pot is wrong, the fact that everyone will one day become sytho-organ hybrids is not. By doing so, we destroy their culture and way of life, which is cultural genocide. If they were given time, they could move their culture into the new way of life, but they can't do that in an instant.

In other words, if everyone had the choice to become synthetic-organic hybrids, that would be fine. The fact that one man is choosing for every organic being in the galaxy makes it as immoral as physically possible.

This reminds me of the conversation you have with Mordin in ME2 regarding the Collectors and what the Reapers did to them...of course leading to culture and songs and Mordin singing but the information gathered from that is great. How if there is no culture - a species stagnates and there is no growth.

We don't have Mordin but we have this guy:

[Calamity]

Phoenix NL wrote...

Calamity wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

Synthesis isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is what is expected of the development of any sentient species. Much like the whole Deus Ex "half-synthetic human" is part of it as well. The problem isn't in the idea, but it's in the implementation. People should have a choice to do so, as they would with the development cycle of our species. When mobile phones or the internet was invented, nobody was forced to accept it into their lives. The fact that you are FORCEFULLY merging everyone together into a pot is wrong, the fact that everyone will one day become sytho-organ hybrids is not. By doing so, we destroy their culture and way of life, which is cultural genocide. If they were given time, they could move their culture into the new way of life, but they can't do that in an instant.

In other words, if everyone had the choice to become synthetic-organic hybrids, that would be fine. The fact that one man is choosing for every organic being in the galaxy makes it as immoral as physically possible.

This reminds me of the conversation you have with Mordin in ME2 regarding the Collectors and what the Reapers did to them...of course leading to culture and songs and Mordin singing but the information gathered from that is great. How if there is no culture - a species stagnates and there is no growth.

We don't have Mordin but we have this guy:

w00t! Thanks! 

[chmarr]

ok when mass effect 1 was being advertisted and promo'ed they were pushing a dark energy and reaper theme.

that theme went on for 2 games and suddenly the 3rd game is just the reapers BUT on my first play through there was talking in the game about dark energy but after that no-one speaks about it, not even in the codex YET the first 2 games had a dark energy codex entry.

seems there retconning the story and theme of the original story

[Major Swift]

* uses one of these on thread http://www.blogcdn.c...ection-time.jpg lol*
@chmarr, well struggle of organics and synthetics was apparently a major theme throughout the games so it doesn't surprise me (though i still can't see this theme being so big)

Modifié par Major Swift, 26 avril 2012 - 01:23 .

[DJBare]

Phoenix NL wrote...
We don't have Mordin but we have this guy:

This line always makes me laugh.

"...tantamount to suicide, but I came back with everyone because I read the user guide"

[Phoenix NL]

DJBare wrote...

Phoenix NL wrote...
We don't have Mordin but we have this guy:

This line always makes me laugh.

"...tantamount to suicide, but I came back with everyone because I read the user guide"

If only there had been a user guide for ME3's endings.....

[gorgoth]

Major Swift wrote...

* uses one of these on thread http://www.blogcdn.c...ection-time.jpg lol*
@chmarr, well struggle of organics and synthetics was apparently a major theme throughout the games so it doesn't surprise me (though i still can't see this theme being so big)

When the main enemy is a giant robot squid it will always be a theme. But the reapers never come off as struggling against organics. What they’re doing is coming off more like a child doing its chores; they never once think they won’t win easily. This is where the idea of the main theme being organics vs. synthetics falls flat. The organic vs. synthetics theme seems to be a byproduct of the main story line not the reason for it.

[Major Swift]

gorgoth wrote...

Major Swift wrote...

* uses one of these on thread http://www.blogcdn.c...ection-time.jpg lol*
@chmarr, well struggle of organics and synthetics was apparently a major theme throughout the games so it doesn't surprise me (though i still can't see this theme being so big)

When the main enemy is a giant robot squid it will always be a theme. But the reapers never come off as struggling against organics. What they’re doing is coming off more like a child doing its chores; they never once think they won’t win easily. This is where the idea of the main theme being organics vs. synthetics falls flat. The organic vs. synthetics theme seems to be a byproduct of the main story line not the reason for it.

exactly, i never really went "oh so organics vs sythetics, this is the main theme" playing any of the games, never even crossed my mind to be honest, like ive said before overcoming impossible odds by working together/similar things to this is what i perceived as a/the major theme

[BigglesFlysAgain]

gorgoth wrote...


When the main enemy is a giant robot squid it will always be a theme. But the reapers never come off as struggling against organics. What they’re doing is coming off more like a child doing its chores; they never once think they won’t win easily. This is where the idea of the main theme being organics vs. synthetics falls flat. The organic vs. synthetics theme seems to be a byproduct of the main story line not the reason for it.

Exactly, its not like with skynet where the resistance manages to prove to be a threat for most of its existance, the reapers seem to have steamrollered every cycle before this one, its hardly a struggle

[LethesDeep]

Synthetics vs organics was a subtheme at best as it was the primary theme of the Quarians vs the Geth, which was a subplot.

The main story's major theme (for me) was "overcoming insurmountable odds" (defeating Sovereign, the Suicide Mission, and beating the Reapers).

The morality system's theme since it was based on idealism/cynicism was cooperation vs domination. Heck even the squadmate system propped this theme up: Every game had a squad consisting of several species with species-specific talents working COOPERATIVELY to help you beat the galaxy-threatening enemy of the... um.. whatever the game's timeframe is. However, they always gave you at least two Humans you could work with that covered any weakness your chosen class might have.

The morality system and the main story's themes were more important than the "synthetics vs organics" because they're more personal and there constantly. When playing Tuchanka I'm not thinking about synthetics, I'm thiniing about the genophage and it's moral dilemma. When I'm playing on the Citadel killing Cerberus I'm thinking about dominance vs cooperation (since Cerberus is a reinforcement of the morality system's theme). When I'm playing on Rannoch THEN I'm thinking about organics vs synthetics, but not before and not after.

Modifié par LethesDeep, 26 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[DistantUtopia]

The more that I think about it, the more I realize no one is really getting the ending we want

If EA really wants to continue the ME franchise as a number of us speculate, then there HAS to be a default ending; one which will happen no matter what.

*cue blowing up Relays, Shepard dead, etc.*

No matter what we do in ME3, there will always be that one little thing which happens, regardless if Starchild is there or not. And that suddenly depresses the hell out of me...