101103 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

Oh, I never said I cancelled my subscription. When I bought TOR about a month before ME3 came out, I also bought two additional months of game-time and they recently gave me another thirty days.

As for your question, it's a psychological thing near as I can tell. It's not so much a general hatred of BioWare games that's come over me, but rather an inability to care. Apathy for the RPG genre as a whole has set in, and since TOR was my first mumorpuger and the only RPGs I've ever played were BioWare titles, you can kind of see why my interest just...died off. I don't play JRPGs on principle, and the ideas behind Bethesda titles never really drew me in (mostly because they're your standard fantasy or post-apocalyptic settings).

But it's not just RPGs that I can't seem to get back into; it's other kinds of games, too. I haven't played Battlefield 3 since ME3 either; the only other game I can recall putting any decent amount of time in other than ME3 multiplayer (yeah, I play it, it's a good release sometimes) is a heavily-modded version of Empire at War: Forces of Corruption. I also can't be arsed to investigate new games. Lately I've been doing a lot of reading and plastic model building, when I'm not trying to land a job someplace.

I see. Kind of difficult to argue that logic. Seems quite sound to me.

Well, I do not have a SWTOR subscription, so I cannot speak for everyone, but here is how I see it:

SWTOR is directly connected to Bioware. If people boycotted other EA games, it could have been for any other reason and it could be random. Or the game could be bad. There is no way to know.

By cancelling the subscription for TOR and stating that ME3 was the problem, it is directly affecting Bioware and showing them that there are many people who do not like the ending, and if they want their subcribers back, they need to do something about it.

Yes, EA has a say in it, but in the end, Bioware is the one who is going to make a DLC, so we want to appeal to Bioware, not EA.

edit: haha, forgot to add the "not"

ah. That makes sense. In order to actually make that work, however, you would have to convince thousands, maybe millions of people to simply not play it at all for those same reasons in order to get the attention it deserved. Knowing corporate crap, the only thing that speaks to them is this.

[sagevallant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

....I understand people are upset by Bioware because of the ending. I myself was disappointed by the ending. But (and this is not meant as a flame or an attack, I'm honestly curious) why would people cancel their subscription to TOR based on their disappointment with ME3's ending? Seriously. It's a completely different game with its own quality.

If people want to boycott Mass Effect 3 and try to get Bioware to change the ending, wouldn't it be easier to do that going through EA games instead? EA owns Bioware right now, and having worked in the corporate world (as a low level grunt mainly, but I've seen enough bureaucracy to last me a lifetime) it is most likely EA telling Bioware exactly when something comes out, how much comes out, DLC development time, and no matter how much Bioware may want to polish the game itself up, may end up with the choice of "release the game early and not entirely finished, or be fired and still release the game but not work on it later." All controlled by EA.

So again, why let the Mass Effect franchise effect one's satisfaction with a game from a different genre with its own highs and lows?

I'm not sure that there are that many people doing as you described. Anyone going so far as to boycott their MMO addiction is likely not buying anything released by EA. At least, as long as they know it's by EA, it's getting harder and harder to find out who publishes what game.

You assume enjoyment from the other games. Well, if Bioware can't properly end one series, why should we believe they can do it with the next one? You can't really count the ends of ME1 & ME2 as endings because they're clearly meant to be setups for the third, which hinged on ME3's ending feeling complete. Fulfilling. It doesn't. The decisions made have no impact on the ending.

You can look at Dragon Age, and DA:O has a reasonably fulfilling ending. It had to, there was no absolute guarantee there would be another.  DA2 does not, it's like another setup piece. We just sparked off this huge, nation-changing rebellion and then... nothing. Bioware rarely has to put forth a proper ending on anything, so when it happens it has to be good.

And the core of the protests is the misleading advertizing. 16 endings? 1 ending in 3 colors. Closure? Nope, just the Normandy crashing in some place after fleeing from battle. Survivors of the final battle? Dunno, never shown. Whole bunch of fleets gathered for final stand, what happened to them after the Relays explode? Dunno, never shown. Logical conclusion, at least some of them starve. Quarians and Turians at the very least, they being very far away from a place that has food they can eat. What's that Bioware, no one starves? They all get home? Gee, thanks for letting your Twitter followers know what happened to them. Think maybe that should be in the GAME somewhere?

Star-Child? Do not get me started.  <_<

Look, we do not play Bioware games for innovative new combat, or action cutscenes, or creepy techno-zombies, we come for STORY. A good story needs a good ending. The reason for the outcry is because a broken story in a Bioware game is like if there was no multiplayer in the next Call of Duty game. This is what we came here for, and we didn't get it. We are, I think understandably, a teensy bit disappointed with the ending as it did not contain what we were told it would contain. Closure, finality. That our decisions made along the way would matter. Sorry, but slapping a war resource value on each decision doesn't qualify as mattering, not when you can get more effect from the multiplayer mode.

And we are proving that we are a fairly mature fanbase, for organizing peacefully and trying to be heard. And for trying to bribe the people we are organizing against with cupcakes.



Edit: So they donated those cupcakes somewhere, right? Do you think that the recepients complained about them all being the same flavor, despite coming in three different colors of frosting?

Modifié par sagevallant, 28 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[Storin]

sagevallant wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

....I understand people are upset by Bioware because of the ending. I myself was disappointed by the ending. But (and this is not meant as a flame or an attack, I'm honestly curious) why would people cancel their subscription to TOR based on their disappointment with ME3's ending? Seriously. It's a completely different game with its own quality.

If people want to boycott Mass Effect 3 and try to get Bioware to change the ending, wouldn't it be easier to do that going through EA games instead? EA owns Bioware right now, and having worked in the corporate world (as a low level grunt mainly, but I've seen enough bureaucracy to last me a lifetime) it is most likely EA telling Bioware exactly when something comes out, how much comes out, DLC development time, and no matter how much Bioware may want to polish the game itself up, may end up with the choice of "release the game early and not entirely finished, or be fired and still release the game but not work on it later." All controlled by EA.

So again, why let the Mass Effect franchise effect one's satisfaction with a game from a different genre with its own highs and lows?

I'm not sure that there are that many people doing as you described. Anyone going so far as to boycott their MMO addiction is likely not buying anything released by EA. At least, as long as they know it's by EA, it's getting harder and harder to find out who publishes what game.

You assume enjoyment from the other games. Well, if Bioware can't properly end one series, why should we believe they can do it with the next one? You can't really count the ends of ME1 & ME2 as endings because they're clearly meant to be setups for the third, which hinged on ME3's ending feeling complete. Fulfilling. It doesn't. The decisions made have no impact on the ending.

You can look at Dragon Age, and DA:O has a reasonably fulfilling ending. It had to, there was no absolute guarantee there would be another.  DA2 does not, it's like another setup piece. We just sparked off this huge, nation-changing rebellion and then... nothing. Bioware rarely has to put forth a proper ending on anything, so when it happens it has to be good.

And the core of the protests is the misleading advertizing. 16 endings? 1 ending in 3 colors. Closure? Nope, just the Normandy crashing in some place after fleeing from battle. Survivors of the final battle? Dunno, never shown. Whole bunch of fleets gathered for final stand, what happened to them after the Relays explode? Dunno, never shown. Logical conclusion, at least some of them starve. Quarians and Turians at the very least, they being very far away from a place that has food they can eat. What's that Bioware, no one starves? They all get home? Gee, thanks for letting your Twitter followers know what happened to them. Think maybe that should be in the GAME somewhere?

Star-Child? Do not get me started.  <_<

Look, we do not play Bioware games for innovative new combat, or action cutscenes, or creepy techno-zombies, we come for STORY. A good story needs a good ending. The reason for the outcry is because a broken story in a Bioware game is like if there was no multiplayer in the next Call of Duty game. This is what we came here for, and we didn't get it. We are, I think understandably, a teensy bit disappointed with the ending as it did not contain what we were told it would contain. Closure, finality. That our decisions made along the way would matter. Sorry, but slapping a war resource value on each decision doesn't qualify as mattering, not when you can get more effect from the multiplayer mode.

And we are proving that we are a fairly mature fanbase, for organizing peacefully and trying to be heard. And for trying to bribe the people we are organizing against with cupcakes.

Just want to jump in on the MMO thing. I play TOR and I'm not stopping because I'm mad about ME3. Some people might do that, I guess, but I don't see it as productive. (And I haven't heard anyone actually say they're doing that, personally.) And I agree on the last bit you say here.

[dragonflight288]

And we are proving that we are a fairly mature fanbase, for organizing peacefully and trying to be heard. And for trying to bribe the people we are organizing against with cupcakes.

Well kudos then!

There have been some pretty hardcore extremists (by that I mean very strong opinions) that just because I didn't necessarily agree with them and called for civility here on the forums, I ended up being called all manner of insults and various other things. Most of said people were banned, so I guess my views on the retake movement was kind of colored by those hardliners.

Granted, I was just as insulted by hardliners who support the ending who were also banned, so meh.

[Missy_MI]

dragonflight288 wrote...
....I understand people are upset by Bioware because of the ending. I myself was disappointed by the ending. But (and this is not meant as a flame or an attack, I'm honestly curious) why would people cancel their subscription to TOR based on their disappointment with ME3's ending? Seriously. It's a completely different game with its own quality....

It is a different game, but to me TOR has a very similar feel to Mass Effect in some ways.

I think this is because there is so much solo content based on your class. Also, you get your own ship with a number of companions, each with their own interesting little stories. And you can choose one of them to journey with you through combat when you solo. Some companions are even romancable. The dialog tree is very prevalent, including special Light side and Dark side options.

Sound familiar?

Personally, I really enjoyed those aspects because I've enjoyed them in single player games like Mass Effect and also because I love BioWare's interpretation of the Star Wars universe. Equal number of Sith and Jedi battling it out? Heck yeah.

But this is also partly why I haven't spent much time playing TOR since finishing ME3. I haven't canceled my subscription either and I'm not boycotting, but the games do remind me enough of each other that it's hard to play TOR without thinking about Mass Effect.

[Ihatebadgames]

Night guys.Hold the line and the wallets.

[Goodwood]

Yeah, when others were cancelling their TOR accounts and saying that they were doing it because of the ME3 endings, I didn't follow that particular lead. Why? I didn't care enough. That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Now, if the pumps get ahead of the inflow of water and the engineers can shore up before the ship sinks, that'd be a different story.

[sagevallant]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And we are proving that we are a fairly mature fanbase, for organizing peacefully and trying to be heard. And for trying to bribe the people we are organizing against with cupcakes.

Well kudos then!

There have been some pretty hardcore extremists (by that I mean very strong opinions) that just because I didn't necessarily agree with them and called for civility here on the forums, I ended up being called all manner of insults and various other things. Most of said people were banned, so I guess my views on the retake movement was kind of colored by those hardliners.

Granted, I was just as insulted by hardliners who support the ending who were also banned, so meh.

This is a place of piece, my dwarven friend. How could we have reached this many pages if we were all constantly getting banned? This thread is basically a support group for people who have had their hearts crushed by the ending.

If you seek understanding of the depraved hardliners, you must seek it elsewhere. Many of us here would prefer to sit down over some cupcakes and discuss our complaints. So the others could be like "Yeah, bro, I been there."

[sagevallant]

Missy_MI wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
....I understand people are upset by Bioware because of the ending. I myself was disappointed by the ending. But (and this is not meant as a flame or an attack, I'm honestly curious) why would people cancel their subscription to TOR based on their disappointment with ME3's ending? Seriously. It's a completely different game with its own quality....

It is a different game, but to me TOR has a very similar feel to Mass Effect in some ways.

I think this is because there is so much solo content based on your class. Also, you get your own ship with a number of companions, each with their own interesting little stories. And you can choose one of them to journey with you through combat when you solo. Some companions are even romancable. The dialog tree is very prevalent, including special Light side and Dark side options.

Sound familiar?

Personally, I really enjoyed those aspects because I've enjoyed them in single player games like Mass Effect and also because I love BioWare's interpretation of the Star Wars universe. Equal number of Sith and Jedi battling it out? Heck yeah.

But this is also partly why I haven't spent much time playing TOR since finishing ME3. I haven't canceled my subscription either and I'm not boycotting, but the games do remind me enough of each other that it's hard to play TOR without thinking about Mass Effect.

Too much like WoW, I'm about fed-up with sidequests that have nothing to do with an overarching plot. Even mini-plot arcs are getting tedious to me. Combat isn't carrying me because, while much prettier, it's still so much like WoW.

I just do not have the freetime to advance in a game by such tiny percentages anymore.

[Nharia1]

Goodwood wrote...

Yeah, when others were cancelling their TOR accounts and saying that they were doing it because of the ME3 endings, I didn't follow that particular lead. Why? I didn't care enough. That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Now, if the pumps get ahead of the inflow of water and the engineers can shore up before the ship sinks, that'd be a different story.

Can you ever "beat" a MMO?

[Darth Garrus]

Nharia1 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Yeah, when others were cancelling their TOR accounts and saying that they were doing it because of the ME3 endings, I didn't follow that particular lead. Why? I didn't care enough. That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Now, if the pumps get ahead of the inflow of water and the engineers can shore up before the ship sinks, that'd be a different story.

Can you ever "beat" a MMO?

Now, that's something I would love to know!

[Darth Garrus]

Good night, everyone!

Hold the line!!!

[Goodwood]

Nharia1 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Yeah, when others were cancelling their TOR accounts and saying that they were doing it because of the ME3 endings, I didn't follow that particular lead. Why? I didn't care enough. That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Now, if the pumps get ahead of the inflow of water and the engineers can shore up before the ship sinks, that'd be a different story.

Can you ever "beat" a MMO?

Now that you mention it...no, it doesn't seem possible. I suppose that's another reason why my interest died; I knew that there would be no real end. It's probably why I've always liked single-player RPGs and never until that point dabbled in a true mumorpuger (two weeks of WWII Online waaaaaaaay back in that game's first year doesn't count).

[Missy_MI]

Goodwood wrote...
That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really
well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Really? I've done a bit of Jedi knight, but the story didn't grab me. Even though I usually play goody-two-shoes characters, I really enjoyed the Empire side in TOR.  It's just so much more interesting when even your allies
are trying to double-cross you. Also, once I embraced the Dark Side, I realized that force lightning really does make every conversation better.

*ahem* On-topic? Alternate ending to Mass Effect 3 that has *nothing* to do with Star Wars in *any* way:

Shepard gazes out at the raging space battle before turning to face the Catalyst. Dropping her gun, she serenely states she can never choose an option he has dictated. Starkid begins to shoot, uh... wild  strips of purple biotics at her from his fingertips! Already wounded, Shepard collapses onto the floor.

Suddenly Harbinger appears flying nearby. He looks uncertainly between Shepard and the Catalyst for a few torturous moments. Finally deciding to rebel against his creator, Harby blasts the Starkid down the synthesis beam. After the screams die away, a plaid colored energy beam shoots out of the Citadel and starts killing only the Reapers.

Harbinger and Shepard share an emotional goodbye before his giant red eye flickers and dies. The Victory Fleet gathers the bodies of the dead Reapers into a gigantic bonfire on Earth while the ghosts of Legion, Mordin, and Thane smile proudly nearby.

What? Harby is Shepard's father people. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Modifié par Missy_MI, 28 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[Goodwood]

Double post.

Modifié par Goodwood, 28 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Goodwood]

*dies laughing*

Thank you, Missy. You just made my day.

Edit: In answer to your question, it makes the JK:JA campaign look as shallow as a kiddie pool. Granted, the Jedi Knight series was never really a series of RPGs; they're all action games with RPG-type elements including a "light" and "dark" ending as well as linear power-leveling.

Modifié par Goodwood, 28 avril 2012 - 06:15 .

[HITMAN629]

Nharia1 wrote...
Can you ever "beat" a MMO?

I think you beat a MMO when you stop playing it.

[Missy_MI]

Goodwood wrote...
*dies laughing*

Thank you, Missy. You just made my day.

Then my feeble attempts at humor (and writing) were worth it!

Edit: In answer to your question, it makes the JK:JA campaign look as shallow as a kiddie pool. Granted, the Jedi Knight series was never really a series of RPGs; they're all action games with RPG-type elements including a "light" and "dark" ending as well as linear power-leveling.

I've never tried out the Jedi Academy games, but I've heard good things about them. If I get back into TOR, I'll have to level my Knight some more. I think the Imperial Agent story was so good so fast that it was hard for me to jump fully into other class stories that didn't ramp up as quickly.

Mass Effect: I'm going to take part in the on/off thing tomorrow (today?) and start another run of ME3. I love Garrus, Tali, and Liara so much that I never really tried out the other squad members in my first playthrough. Gonna see if there is any good banter between the other characters. And one day is not even remotely enough time to hit the endings so... should be able to play for quite awhile without feeling bummed out (hopefully).

[VivaLaWhatsername]

Hey guys
Anything happen in the last 18 hours?

Apart from me getting a raging cold and feeling like crap.

[Missy_MI]

xHezz90 wrote...
Hey guys
Anything happen in the last 18 hours?

Apart from me getting a raging cold and feeling like crap.

Aw sorry to hear that, I hope you feel better.

I don't think anything too crazy happened. The on/off thing is this weekend.

[Allan Schumacher]

Goodwood wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Yeah, when others were cancelling their TOR accounts and saying that they were doing it because of the ME3 endings, I didn't follow that particular lead. Why? I didn't care enough. That emotional investment that I'd put into the ME series and TOR thus far (the Jedi Knight campaign is really well-done, actually, though I never "beat" it) had taken such a grievous hit that it fast began to go down by the head.

Now, if the pumps get ahead of the inflow of water and the engineers can shore up before the ship sinks, that'd be a different story.

Can you ever "beat" a MMO?

Now that you mention it...no, it doesn't seem possible. I suppose that's another reason why my interest died; I knew that there would be no real end. It's probably why I've always liked single-player RPGs and never until that point dabbled in a true mumorpuger (two weeks of WWII Online waaaaaaaay back in that game's first year doesn't count).

The narrative for the Jedi Knight does wrap up with a conclusion (and mini-epilogue) that finishes up the story arc quite well. I played through it during prerelease and enjoyed it, if it was a bit standard Star Wars fare.  The conclusion of the epilogue sort of plays out in a way that would leave a standard single player game open for a sequel (which sort of seems like a segue into the endgame content or possibly future Jedi Knight story content at a later date).

[HITMAN629]

Wow Allan posted, thats awesome.

Modifié par HITMAN629, 28 avril 2012 - 06:36 .

[Goodwood]

I got as far as the first third of Voss. That's it.

Space battles were nice, though.

[Goodwood]

I got as far as the first third of Voss. That's it.

Space battles were nice, though.

[VivaLaWhatsername]

Missy_MI wrote...

xHezz90 wrote...
Hey guys
Anything happen in the last 18 hours?

Apart from me getting a raging cold and feeling like crap.

Aw sorry to hear that, I hope you feel better.

I don't think anything too crazy happened. The on/off thing is this weekend.

Oh yeah I completely forgot about that, stupid time difference makes it so confusing lol.

I shall participate though, if I can bring myself to turn on my PS3 with ME3 in the disk slot without getting annoyed lol.