101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Lestatman]

Aviditie wrote...

g - that's one of the things that broke my heart about 3. They didn't even make killing off the rachni queen or not actually matter. What *really* mattered other than whether Kaiden or Ashley died from 1?

Give the info to the shadow broker in 1? No. Send Cerberus its data back, keep it for yourself/EDI, or send it to the alliance? No. Lose a squad mate in 2? Replaced with generic person. The choices don't affect any actual gameplay. Nothing is harder, or easier. They pretty much abandoned renegade or paragon. It's all so...

Frustrating. And not what they promised. I would still have played the #%^* out of 1&2 bc they were fun games, but I wouldn't have been so careful about having made different decisions with each Shepard for 3.

I'm starting to wonder if there is any point to ME2.  I can't remember if saving/destroying the Collector Base has any major impact in 3.  Plus the lack of ME2 squad members ur able to recruit really gets on my nerves, surely Miranda and Grunt could easily take a place aboard the Normandy.

Modifié par Lestatman, 03 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[g_bassi13]

Aviditie wrote...

g - that's one of the things that broke my heart about 3. They didn't even make killing off the rachni queen or not actually matter. What *really* mattered other than whether Kaiden or Ashley died from 1?

Give the info to the shadow broker in 1? No. Send Cerberus its data back, keep it for yourself/EDI, or send it to the alliance? No. Lose a squad mate in 2? Replaced with generic person. The choices don't affect any actual gameplay. Nothing is harder, or easier. They pretty much abandoned renegade or paragon. It's all so...

Frustrating. And not what they promised. I would still have played the #%^* out of 1&2 bc they were fun games, but I wouldn't have been so careful about having made different decisions with each Shepard for 3.

... But that's what the fun of 1 and 2 was mostly about, lol. I'm hoping I can at least go back to playing ME1 soon, but I'm still not motivated enough to do so. ME3 managed to retroactively ruin my favourite game of all time.

[g_bassi13]

Lestatman wrote...

I'm starting to wonder if there is any point to ME2.  I can't remember if saving/destroying the Collector Base has any major impact in 3.  Plus the lack of ME2 squad members ur able to recruit really gets on my nerves, surely Miranda and Grunt could easily take a place aboard the Normandy.

Nope, there was no point at all to it.

It was one giant sidequest that turned out to have absolutely no consequenses of any kind. Because that's the kind of foresight Bioware has, lol.

[Lestatman]

g_bassi13 wrote...

Nope, there was no point at all to it.

It was one giant sidequest that turned out to have absolutely no consequenses of any kind. Because that's the kind of foresight Bioware has, lol.

Who knows maybe and it's a big maybe the sort out the ending we might get a ME3 Enhanced Version in 2yrs time.

1. Longer opening sequence - For new players the opportunity to make decisions like the cartoon strip for PS3 players in ME2 and for the rest a trial going over the choices we made.  Longer level and tougher fight for Shep trying to leave Earth which could include Vega and give us a chance to figure out why Shep seems so friendly with him at the beginning.

2. More planets to land on and do proper side quests rather than scan or using MP levels.  Travel to Dekuuna and actually land and see what the home world of the Elcor is like.  More HUB worlds.

3. More squad members having those from ME2 join us like Miranda, Grunt, Jack plus we could still do their individual quests.

etc.  I could go on.

[Atrocity]

Lestatman wrote...
Who knows maybe and it's a big maybe the sort out the ending we might get a ME3 Enhanced Version in 2yrs time.

1. Longer opening sequence - For new players the opportunity to make decisions like the cartoon strip for PS3 players in ME2 and for the rest a trial going over the choices we made.  Longer level and tougher fight for Shep trying to leave Earth which could include Vega and give us a chance to figure out why Shep seems so friendly with him at the beginning.

2. More planets to land on and do proper side quests rather than scan or using MP levels.  Travel to Dekuuna and actually land and see what the home world of the Elcor is like.  More HUB worlds.

3. More squad members having those from ME2 join us like Miranda, Grunt, Jack plus we could still do their individual quests.

etc.  I could go on.

Optimistic to a verge of delusional.
I'd buy that game,
But it won't happen :')

[Lestatman]

Atrocity wrote...

Optimistic to a verge of delusional.
I'd buy that game,
But it won't happen :')

I'm still waking up.  Later when I come back after work I'll look at and think "did I really write that?"

[Atrocity]

Lestatman wrote...

Atrocity wrote...

Optimistic to a verge of delusional.
I'd buy that game,
But it won't happen :')

I'm still waking up.  Later when I come back after work I'll look at and think "did I really write that?"

Explanation accepted

As much as I hate to do the whole rEApers thing, I believe that is the biggest thing stopping enchanced edition of ME3, or any other game under their company for that matter. EA caters to the "common man", that guy who likes to play FIFA for an hour before going to bed, and that's the extent of his gaming. And that's all fine and good, nothing wrong with that, but it does mean their business strategy is formed with that in mind, instead of us evangelist gamers.

I love that term... I really have to google who coined it.

[toffeetrooper]

good morning all

still ill, but a least my updates are all done.
how goes the line?

[Atrocity]

toffeetrooper wrote...

good morning all

still ill, but a least my updates are all done.
how goes the line?

Pretty quiet, but that's to be expected. Night in USA, morning in Europe, so not many people online, and those who are, are working/in school/lurking in general.

[g_bassi13]

Lestatman wrote...

g_bassi13 wrote...

Nope, there was no point at all to it.

It was one giant sidequest that turned out to have absolutely no consequenses of any kind. Because that's the kind of foresight Bioware has, lol.

Who knows maybe and it's a big maybe the sort out the ending we might get a ME3 Enhanced Version in 2yrs time.

1. Longer opening sequence - For new players the opportunity to make decisions like the cartoon strip for PS3 players in ME2 and for the rest a trial going over the choices we made.  Longer level and tougher fight for Shep trying to leave Earth which could include Vega and give us a chance to figure out why Shep seems so friendly with him at the beginning.

2. More planets to land on and do proper side quests rather than scan or using MP levels.  Travel to Dekuuna and actually land and see what the home world of the Elcor is like.  More HUB worlds.

3. More squad members having those from ME2 join us like Miranda, Grunt, Jack plus we could still do their individual quests.

etc.  I could go on.

I don't like the idea of paying for something I should  have been getting in the first place, lol. Maybe I would, who knows. They're not doing it though, sadly. I can say that confidently. It's not like we're not dealing CD Projekt here.

[Aviditie]

I think ME 3 would have to be almost completely re-done to make it live up to what 1&2 promised. The ending is, of course, unforgivable, but they had a chance to do something really in redouble with ME 3 and they blew it to get it out in a year and a half or whatever.

I'm in the boat with all of you on the ending. But it made me reflect on the game as a whole and like g said, it's all one big side quest with no point. So for those who played ME3 as their firs ME ame, or maybe 2, no prob.

Real question: why did EA buy a company like bioware if it was going to keep it's e wry an model for it?

I mean, I kind of know the answer. To use the name. But why!

[Aviditie]

Also, I think flying by the seat of their pants story-telling wise kind of caught up with them. Like with the ending, and the expanation of the reapers. I'd seriously rather have known next to nothing about them than meet reaper child. And the final battle should have been in harbinger. Just... Period. He was your nemesis for the whole second game!!!

[Atrocity]

Aviditie wrote...

Also, I think flying by the seat of their pants story-telling wise kind of caught up with them. Like with the ending, and the expanation of the reapers. I'd seriously rather have known next to nothing about them than meet reaper child. And the final battle should have been in harbinger. Just... Period. He was your nemesis for the whole second game!!!

Obvious problems like development time aside, they reached too high. Of course every story-writer wishes to become the next James Joyce, Virginia Woolf or any other great modernist writer (no one ever seems to want to be an Augustinian. Go figure), and create something new, spectacular, innovative, something they can proudly call Art, instead of your regular art (the difference being much the same as with who and whom. The latter is better connected and gets more dinner-invites), or heaven forbid, a product. And as I have said time and time again, the ending is not bad, if considered without context. As an idea of a ending to a 'make your own story'-videogame, it is actually rather good.

The problem is, they did not ever at any point set out to do Art. ME1 is good, really good, it's fun and well thought out, with amazing performances every once in a while. However, it is not Art, or even art. This is not because art cannot be funny or entertaining, you should see me in any given modern art museum, there's your childish fun-having right there, but because the story is as conventional as it gets. The way it's delivered is as conventional as it gets. The game mechanics are not ground-breaking either. It is same old, same old, but delivered in such a polished and well thought way, that it set the original ME above most of the games. Even if it had Mako, the magical fridge on a rollerscate.

ME2 followed the same idea, though with more linear and streamlined execution.
As did 98% of ME3.
And that, ladies and gentleman, is the reason why the ending is bad. Context. The dev team forgot, or deliberately ignored, the context of their own games. I'd love IT, I'd love the ending, if it was not the ending to ME-series.

Modifié par Atrocity, 03 mai 2012 - 07:46 .

[KevShep]

Aviditie wrote...

Also, I think flying by the seat of their pants story-telling wise kind of caught up with them. Like with the ending, and the expanation of the reapers. I'd seriously rather have known next to nothing about them than meet reaper child. And the final battle should have been in harbinger. Just... Period. He was your nemesis for the whole second game!!!

Your talking as if you know what BioWare has been up to. You dont know yet...this all looks as if it was planned.

For all we know EA may have not backed down from there dead line DEMAND from bioware. Bioware notices that inorder to make the absolutely best ending possible they would need more time. Bioware gets creative by giving us an ending on time that is to make us speculate what has just happend. This gives Bioware more months to finish a free DLC that may have been planning since October or November. It fits perfectly because it alows Bioware to use indoctrination (something that Shepard has not faced yet) as the ending to MAKE US BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOT INDOCTRINATED when we are infact indoctrinated by Bioware's artistic intergity while having OUR shepard indoctrinated by the reapers. To indoctrinate YOUR shepard the writers have to also indoctrinate YOU the player with shepard or it does not work!...Period!

The anti-I.T. people have been indoctrinated by artistic intergity. They claim its just bad writing AND CANT FIGURE OUT WHY BIOWARE IS SUPPORTING ARTISTIC INTEGRITY....Sound like they dont see the creativeness from Bioware after all.

[Aviditie]

I dont really know what I'd think about the ending if it weren't mass effect. Think it would completely ave to lead me there. But I seriously can't imagine a green beam that turns the galaxy into cyborgs as cool or Art. Or Shepard waking up in armor after the destroy ending as art. Or any part of what happened on the Normandy as art.

I don't really see how that ending could be framed as Art in any context.

But I d agree in that the reason fans care so much that the did that with the ending is context. We weren't led there nor did w realize we were purchasing ME goes Art.

I thought the fact that the had a non-human centric galaxy was pretty revolutionary.

[Atrocity]

Aviditie wrote...

I dont really know what I'd think about the ending if it weren't mass effect. Think it would completely ave to lead me there. But I seriously can't imagine a green beam that turns the galaxy into cyborgs as cool or Art. Or Shepard waking up in armor after the destroy ending as art. Or any part of what happened on the Normandy as art.

I don't really see how that ending could be framed as Art in any context.

But I d agree in that the reason fans care so much that the did that with the ending is context. We weren't led there nor did w realize we were purchasing ME goes Art.

I thought the fact that the had a non-human centric galaxy was pretty revolutionary.

I guess I'm really forgviging when it comes the time to decide whether something is art or isn't...

The point I was trying to make, that if the ending was slapped to another game, or maybe if the fundamental delivery of the story of ME was changed radically, the ending would be good, or at least appropriate. If the game had foreshadowed a feeling of "wrong" or discrepancy throughout the series, an ending where you can't be certain of anything anymore would be a good choice. It would be art in the context of gaming in general, where the majority of things can be taken at face value, and should be taken at face value.

However, the comments about 'humming' aside, this has not been the case, or my perception has been warped and mind numb for quite a few years now.

Heck, if ME had been your regular semi-realistic war-game, even then then some of the aspects of the ending would have been borderline artsy, since in war a soldier can hardly make any difference at all, even if given an illusion of contrary. BUT it is not. And Shepard never was your regular soldier Johnny either.

Modifié par Atrocity, 03 mai 2012 - 08:01 .

[Aviditie]

An example of telling by the seat of their pants: the collectors look like javik, the statues on Ilos don't look like proteins. There's a very cool explanation for tis if you paid for javik and put it together. The statues weren't protheans but a race conquered by protheans.

When asked about the statues, a writer pretty much said yeah we changed how they looked. They set up so many story lines they didn't close. Haelstrom, the aforementioned data for Cerberus in 2, the data you could give (or not) to the shadow broker in 1, the rachni and how to deal with your decision.

I think they made each ame up as the went wit a few ideas about where the would go from there instead if having the story planned out. And. Think, while the indoctrination theory is cool, it's just a dream. In an interview (PAX) Gamble basically laughed at how "creative" their fans were. It was almost mocking. My personal read, anyway.

[Aviditie]

Proteins=protheans. Sorry. My iPad really just irks me. It drops letters, changes my spelling, adds incorrect apostrophes... Ugh. I'm sorry. It also makes it really hard to edit. The typing pad won't come up on the advanced reply section.

[KevShep]

Aviditie wrote...

An example of telling by the seat of their pants: the collectors look like javik, the statues on Ilos don't look like proteins. There's a very cool explanation for tis if you paid for javik and put it together. The statues weren't protheans but a race conquered by protheans.

When asked about the statues, a writer pretty much said yeah we changed how they looked. They set up so many story lines they didn't close. Haelstrom, the aforementioned data for Cerberus in 2, the data you could give (or not) to the shadow broker in 1, the rachni and how to deal with your decision.

I think they made each ame up as the went wit a few ideas about where the would go from there instead if having the story planned out. And. Think, while the indoctrination theory is cool, it's just a dream. In an interview (PAX) Gamble basically laughed at how "creative" their fans were. It was almost mocking. My personal read, anyway.

certain aspects of the game WERE done bit by bit as it went along but that does not mean that they did it with everything! Your assuming that there was NO plan at all throughout the whole serise for the main plot....thats just crazy!

EDIT:  BTW They said they wanted speculation about the endings to see what people found and at Pax they were just stating what people are finding as creative.

Modifié par KevShep, 03 mai 2012 - 08:08 .

[Aviditie]

But I would ave forgiven every problem in the ame if the ending had fit the rest of the game and I could have some sense (any sense) of accomplishment from ne set of decisions I ade.

I know what you mean about forgiving. And I've never complained about any bioware game until this one. I never even wrote on here, and bought multiple copies of everything since KoTOR. And all dlc. And art. And shirts, jackets, etc. I was a total bioware da girl, and really wanted to work there. Like, it was my dream job.

[Atrocity]

Aviditie wrote...

Proteins=protheans. Sorry. My iPad really just irks me. It drops letters, changes my spelling, adds incorrect apostrophes... Ugh. I'm sorry. It also makes it really hard to edit. The typing pad won't come up on the advanced reply section.

I know, my iPod is the same, though without auto-correct thank god. The editing is hard when typing, and after I send a message, impossible, since something about the coding of BSN just irks it.

And there is that joke about Javik in a blender > prothean shake

[Aviditie]

I don't assume there was no forethought. Just not enough forethought. :-)

[Atrocity]

KevShep wrote...
certain aspects of the game WERE done bit by bit as it went along but that does not mean that they did it with everything! Your assuming that there was NO plan at all throughout the whole serise for the main plot....thats just crazy!

EDIT:  BTW They said they wanted speculation about the endings to see what people found and at Pax they were just stating what people are finding as creative.

The rumour has it that there was, but after Karpyshyn left, it was scrapped. IMHO it really doesn't matter in the game, or in general, whether there is a plan if the execution fails to reflect the said plan.

Not that I am blaming ME3 for that really. They just failed to see many foreshadowed things through, a fault that is a straight consequence of the short, short dev time.

[KevShep]

Atrocity wrote...

KevShep wrote...
certain aspects of the game WERE done bit by bit as it went along but that does not mean that they did it with everything! Your assuming that there was NO plan at all throughout the whole serise for the main plot....thats just crazy!

EDIT:  BTW They said they wanted speculation about the endings to see what people found and at Pax they were just stating what people are finding as creative.

The rumour has it that there was, but after Karpyshyn left, it was scrapped. IMHO it really doesn't matter in the game, or in general, whether there is a plan if the execution fails to reflect the said plan.

Not that I am blaming ME3 for that really. They just failed to see many foreshadowed things through, a fault that is a straight consequence of the short, short dev time.

From all of the tweets from Bioware seem to say the opposite about the indoctrination, or at least to the current endings not being the real ones.

[Atrocity]

KevShep wrote...

Atrocity wrote...

KevShep wrote...
certain aspects of the game WERE done bit by bit as it went along but that does not mean that they did it with everything! Your assuming that there was NO plan at all throughout the whole serise for the main plot....thats just crazy!

EDIT:  BTW They said they wanted speculation about the endings to see what people found and at Pax they were just stating what people are finding as creative.

The rumour has it that there was, but after Karpyshyn left, it was scrapped. IMHO it really doesn't matter in the game, or in general, whether there is a plan if the execution fails to reflect the said plan.

Not that I am blaming ME3 for that really. They just failed to see many foreshadowed things through, a fault that is a straight consequence of the short, short dev time.

From all of the tweets from Bioware seem to say the opposite about the indoctrination, or at least to the current endings not being the real ones.

With all respect, I could do my masters about the tweets and name it "Character limit vs English grammar; twitter and ambiguous structures" and get highest grade possible...