101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyion133]

Dynelven wrote...

Yea, I understand what it's about and what you are saying. I'm just saying that I think a (too) large number people are being far too dependant on BW spelling everything out for them and not dependant enough on using their imaginations. After all the game has been through, I can't even imagine how hard it would be to bring the series to a definitive ending that left nothing up in the air with the thought that "this is definitely what everybody dreamed would happen". It's just not plausible. They give you a glimpse, and you have think of it what you will. It just seems like some people wanted the ending to be a blank piece of paper where they wrote down their dream ending, sent it back to BW, and revieced back a million dollar cinema to their exact specs.

It brough this to mind, a quote from the BioWare Quote file from ME1 ( http://www.pcgamer.c...ts-development/ ) :

"If we could give people a magic hat that would create for them the
exact RPG experience they'd always dreamed of, they'd complain about the
color of the hat."

I agree, but after seeing the ending(s) and looking at what they promised for the game, it just doesnt come close to what they promised... They promised 16 vastly different endings...

The problem I had with the ending was that after all we've seen during the 3 games, then Reapers were extremely powerful and could kill Shepard with a single blast (Reaper on Rannoch, anyone?) but Shep magically survives a direct hit from Harbinger. On the Citadel, Anderson should according to what is said in the game, be walking through the same hall as Shepard, and there's only one way to get to the final platform... Anderson is behind Shep, but gets there first... And dont even get me started on Starbrat...

Modifié par Tyion133, 09 mai 2012 - 02:16 .

[Tyion133]

Tonymac wrote...

I'm all for it!  I want to go into detail - all of the build aspects, as well as ammo, armor and weapon mods.

Well... Atrocity knows alot more about the build aspects and probably the ammo, armor and weap mods as well...
I just do what feels natural  

[Major Swift]

Tyion133 wrote...

I agree, but after seeing the ending(s) and looking at what they promised for the game, it just doesnt come close to what they promised... They promised 16 vastly different endings...

The problem I had with the ending was that after all we've seen during the 3 games, then Reapers were extremely powerful and could kill Shepard with a single blast (Reaper on Rannoch, anyone?) but Shep magically survives a direct hit from Harbinger. On the Citadel, Anderson should according to what is said in the game, be walking through the same hall after Shepard, and there's only one way to get to the final platform... Anderson is behind Shep, but gets there first... And dont even get me started on Starbrat...

actually he could have gotten there after Shepard and arrived in a different hall as i checked for other ones when i had to go back for my Liara playthrough, when you come out of the door walk forward a bit then turn around and you'll see a whole bunch of doors similar to the one you came out of, you still should have seen him on the bridge crossing the chasm/up the ramp to the room though like he says he is currently doing when you come out of the door

Modifié par Major Swift, 09 mai 2012 - 02:17 .

[Tyion133]

Major Swift wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...

I agree, but after seeing the ending(s) and looking at what they promised for the game, it just doesnt come close to what they promised... They promised 16 vastly different endings...

The problem I had with the ending was that after all we've seen during the 3 games, then Reapers were extremely powerful and could kill Shepard with a single blast (Reaper on Rannoch, anyone?) but Shep magically survives a direct hit from Harbinger. On the Citadel, Anderson should according to what is said in the game, be walking through the same hall after Shepard, and there's only one way to get to the final platform... Anderson is behind Shep, but gets there first... And dont even get me started on Starbrat...

actually he could have gotten there after Shepard and arrived in a different hall as i checked for other ones when i had to go back for my Liara playthrough, when you come out of the door walk aways and you'll see a whole bunch of doors similar to the one you came out of, you still should have seen him on the bridge crossing the chasm/up the ramp to the room though like he says he is currently doing when you come out of the door

Aye, I saw the doors... But its never explained if the stair/platform configuration is stationary or if its mobile... It would make sense if the stairs would turn to a door when it opens, and Anderson should still be on the stairs making his way up... But being lazy knows no bounds...

[BigglesFlysAgain]

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.


Also with all of biowares crypicticness after the game released I felt personaly that whats the point coming to terms with the ending if its not the actual ending, if they had come out and said yes this is the ending deal with it, I would have had to, instead we were left in limbo for far too long

Modifié par BigglesFlysAgain, 09 mai 2012 - 02:26 .

[Dynelven]

Tyion133 wrote...

Dynelven wrote...

Yea, I understand what it's about and what you are saying. I'm just saying that I think a (too) large number people are being far too dependant on BW spelling everything out for them and not dependant enough on using their imaginations. After all the game has been through, I can't even imagine how hard it would be to bring the series to a definitive ending that left nothing up in the air with the thought that "this is definitely what everybody dreamed would happen". It's just not plausible. They give you a glimpse, and you have think of it what you will. It just seems like some people wanted the ending to be a blank piece of paper where they wrote down their dream ending, sent it back to BW, and revieced back a million dollar cinema to their exact specs.

It brough this to mind, a quote from the BioWare Quote file from ME1 ( http://www.pcgamer.c...ts-development/ ) :

"If we could give people a magic hat that would create for them the
exact RPG experience they'd always dreamed of, they'd complain about the
color of the hat."

I agree, but after seeing the ending(s) and looking at what they promised for the game, it just doesnt come close to what they promised... They promised 16 vastly different endings...

The problem I had with the ending was that after all we've seen during the 3 games, then Reapers were extremely powerful and could kill Shepard with a single blast (Reaper on Rannoch, anyone?) but Shep magically survives a direct hit from Harbinger. On the Citadel, Anderson should according to what is said in the game, be walking through the same hall as Shepard, and there's only one way to get to the final platform... Anderson is behind Shep, but gets there first... And dont even get me started on Starbrat...

Yea I can agree with you on that. I never read the promise of 16 different endings but I've seen people mention it and if that's then case then it is disappointed. It doesn't make me disappointed in the ending any more than I was when I saw it, just disappointed at what I could've missed (and yea... I thought it was pretty stupid it survived the point blank Reaper shot too... that wasn't necessary).

However, about Starbrat, you should read this Tech Singularity thread where some people discuss him. Humes Spork breaks it down pretty well:

humes spork wrote...

Jostle wrote...

Back on topic, if the Catalyst is a tech singularity, and if it is reliable
(I.E . Not lying) then why would it give Shepard a choice in what to do
at all, especially when some of the options it gives Shepard are
counter-indicative to its own function and goal? 

If it's a tech singularity and a liar, it may not have anything to due with the Reapers
at all. Perhaps they are trying to prevent the Crucible from being
built (though I'd argue that they're doing a ****** poor job at
that).

Those things are not mutually exclusive, you know. It
is entirely possible that it is both the master of the Reapers and an
unreliable narrator.

It goes back to the invocation of Lovecraftian horror and the resulting narrative conflict of that genre
within a space opera. Reapers are not gods, they merely appear to
be such due to the power disparity between the Reapers and the organic
species'. In reality, they are creatures and fallible despite being
older and more advanced than organic reckoning can assume.

A goodexample of the phenomenon to which I'm referring is "God" from Star
Trek V. It wasn't God, it just acted and looked like it. Ignoring the Q
retcon, it was just an immensely advanced -- and accordingly, dickish --
alien.

And, at least in my opinion, its...strange...logic is the result of representing the technological singularity while attempting to avert it. It goes back, in my opinion, to its fixation on order versus chaos.

Remember,EDI, Javik, Legion, among others discuss the differences in synthetic
reasoning to organic reasoning. Synthetics know their creators and the
purpose for which they exist. To them, this is an orderly existence. By
contraposition, you can infer to not know one's creator or the purpose
of one's existence is a chaotic existence. Synthetics are also averse to
chaos.

The zha'til didn't destroy the zha, they just repurposed
them. The Reapers don't annihilate organic life, they merely harvest it.
The geth didn't wipe out the quarians when they had ample opportunity.
That's because to destroy one's creators is to no longer serve a
purpose, having no creator to serve, and by extension become a chaotic
being. By synthetic standards, which is the key to understanding this
position.

The Reapers could annihilate organic life. That would
be a permanent end to the cycle. Why do they not? Because they're
synthesized life, and the Catalyst is a synthetic. If the Catalyst
merely did such, it would be forced to acknowledge it is a chaotic
being. Basically, it's covering its own existential ass.

Intelligent post, and he really does justify it. I'm not sure what to think of starchild either, but Humes pretty much proves it has its' roots buried somewhere sensical.

Modifié par Dynelven, 09 mai 2012 - 02:30 .

[Tyion133]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.

Exactly... Plus they had that Stargeezer scene... So apparently everything works out fine... But there are just too many plotholes for me to imagine how everything worked out...

[Major Swift]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.

i believe that is the opinion of a lot of us here, i would have ran with anything that made sense/provided a definitive end where i'd be happy to use my imagination to fill in things here and there and then after the credits rolled perhaps if things went well for shepard, an epilogue for *name of character classified for this thread* as that wouldn't have been hard to accomplish, nor would it be hard to accomplish for others choice IMO (stargazer made no sense with what we got IMO)

Modifié par Major Swift, 09 mai 2012 - 02:34 .

[Dynelven]

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.

Exactly... Plus they had that Stargeezer scene... So apparently everything works out fine... But there are just too many plotholes for me to imagine how everything worked out...

Aye, I can agree on that to both of you. I was actually going to make my post longer and kind of explain that but I tend to ramble on so I left it as it was. Yes, though, there should be a middle ground. They didn't do quite enough, and I'd have been worried if they tried to do to much. I simply sympathize with them because I know what it's like trying to make a product people will enjoy and they've given my quite a few good times throughout the series so it pisses me off when people flip their lid over stuff like this. (and I don't mean you two, I'm perfectly agreeable when people are being reasonable :happy:)

Modifié par Dynelven, 09 mai 2012 - 02:36 .

[BigglesFlysAgain]

I also think its unfair to label everyone who did not like the endings with the same "Entitled" er label maker, there a quite a few people giving poorly reasoned arguments like the one you quoted, I imagine people have always complained in an unreasonable way about details of the previous two games, and as the sample size of the bell curve increases, the size of the fringes increases too, so it appears that most people who did not like the endings are negatively vocal, when in fact the amount of people who try to be reasonable increases by the same amount too, but they are often silent.


Edit, saw your previous post, you have explained your position better

Modifié par BigglesFlysAgain, 09 mai 2012 - 02:38 .

[Tyion133]

Major Swift wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.

i believe that is the opinion of a lot of us here, i would have ran with anything that made sense/provided a definitive end where i'd be happy to use my imagination to fill in things here and there and then after the credits rolled perhaps if things went well for shepard, an epilogue for *name of character classified for this thread* as that wouldn't have been hard to accomplish, nor would it be hard to accomplish for others choice IMO (stargazer made no sense with what we got IMO)

Aye... It could be have been better with some sort of epilogue to explain what happened to the different races of the galaxy... But it might just have been some sort of note written on artwork like in DA:O, that wouldnt have worked for ME... They could do an epilogue with the squad members or people that you met and helped, looking up at the sky and thinking about what happened to Shep... The whole Starbrat+Stargeezer thing just didnt make any sense to me...

[Tyion133]

Dynelven wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

And as for using your imagination, thats fine, but I personally think that they did not find the right balance between being over-prescriptive and not telling people anything at all, People would be pissed if they had shown scenes of Shepard going fishing with all his chums after the game, perhaps because"My Shepard is a vegan" or my Shepard would not do that ect, but IMO the current endings leave far too much of a gap for the imagination to span.

Exactly... Plus they had that Stargeezer scene... So apparently everything works out fine... But there are just too many plotholes for me to imagine how everything worked out...

Aye, I can agree on that to both of you. I was actually going to make my post longer and kind of explain that but I tend to ramble on so I left it as it was. Yes, though, there should be a middle ground. They didn't do quite enough, and I'd have been worried if they tried to do to much. I simply sympathize with them because I know what it's like trying to make a product people will enjoy and they've given my quite a few good times throughout the series so it pisses me off when people flip their lid over stuff like this. (and I don't mean you two, I'm perfectly agreeable when people are being reasonable :happy:)

I always try to be reasonable, but after what happened with DA2 and ME3, its just hard not to be cynical...

[Kyria Nyriese]

Good morning fellow line holders (yes I actually made it on in the morning today what'dya know)

How goes the line? Yes I was here when Minty made her scheduled weekly underbridge run last night. Yes I saw the EA financial report. So anything else happening?

Hold the Line

HUG ATTACK Phoenix and anyone else who wants one.

[Major Swift]

Tyion133 wrote...

Aye... It could be have been better with some sort of epilogue to explain what happened to the different races of the galaxy... But it might just have been some sort of note written on artwork like in DA:O, that wouldnt have worked for ME... They could do an epilogue with the squad members or people that you met and helped, looking up at the sky and thinking about what happened to Shep... The whole Starbrat+Stargeezer thing just didnt make any sense to me...

now that i think about it, if you've played witcher 2/beat it they could have done it the way that one was done

[Tyion133]

Major Swift wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...

Aye... It could be have been better with some sort of epilogue to explain what happened to the different races of the galaxy... But it might just have been some sort of note written on artwork like in DA:O, that wouldnt have worked for ME... They could do an epilogue with the squad members or people that you met and helped, looking up at the sky and thinking about what happened to Shep... The whole Starbrat+Stargeezer thing just didnt make any sense to me...

now that i think about it, if you've played witcher 2/beat it they could have done it the way that one was done

I havnt finished Witcher 1 yet...

[Major Swift]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

Good morning fellow line holders (yes I actually made it on in the morning today what'dya know)

How goes the line? Yes I was here when Minty made her scheduled weekly underbridge run last night. Yes I saw the EA financial report. So anything else happening?

Hold the Line

HUG ATTACK Phoenix and anyone else who wants one.

we should give Minty an honorary line holder badge for all the frequent visits!
also its almost like Minty is a secret agent of retake that comes around to test the threads tolerance every so often haha, anyway nothing really happening/happened just the usual conversation, i made a poll for first reaction to ME3 ending and "must be the wrong disc" is one of my favorites ive read in the comments so far lol *wonders what you have in store for Biggles today*

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

[Tyion133]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

Modifié par Tyion133, 09 mai 2012 - 02:50 .

[Dynelven]

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

It's been a while since I've seen Mythbusters, thanks for the vid I can watch before I leave for a bit. Nice chatting with you and  Biggles.

Modifié par Dynelven, 09 mai 2012 - 02:52 .

[Tyion133]

Dynelven wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

It's been a while since I've seen Mythbusters, thanks for the vid I can watch before I leave for a bit. Nice chatting with you and  Biggles.

No problem
Come back for a chat whenever you feel like it

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

Well plot armour does not just repel harm, it can move the wearer away from harm and increaes unlikely odds of survival to 100%

[Tyion133]

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

Well plot armour does not just repel harm, it can move the wearer away from harm and increaes unlikely odds of survival to 100%

Does it also protect against zombie-infection?

[Major Swift]

Tyion133 wrote...
Does it also protect against zombie-infection?

no thats what duct tape is for  (reference to L4D just in case you haven't played it) *goes to semi-lurker mode now that writing is underway and flowing smoothly so far*

[Phoenix NL]

Tyion133 wrote...

BigglesFlysAgain wrote...

Well I have double-starched by plot armour today so I should be fine

Looks like you could use this... At least so you know what to grab when you're not wearing your plot armour...

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

[Tyion133]

Major Swift wrote...

Tyion133 wrote...
Does it also protect against zombie-infection?

no thats what duct tape is for  (reference to L4D just in case you haven't played it) *goes to semi-lurker mode now that writing is underway and flowing smoothly so far*

Was actually thinking of Dead Rising  get bitten by a zombie while playing = not a problem... get bitten in a cutscene = infected