101103 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Canned Bullets wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

You're missing the point. People play video games for escapism. Nobody wants to reminded of real life and nobody likes an ending pulled out of a lazy writer's ass.

Yeah, but video games are a reflection of real life, to a degree. The reason we turn to them for escapism is because they are based on a controlled reality, with the parameters for interaction set by the writers and gameplay designers. Would you be as attached to ME if the characters were just one-dimensional sticks? If the world was just a pile of goo? If there was no conflict? If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

I get what you're saying but Bioware pretty much set us up for a happy ending. 

We've basically been baited with one all along. Then they pull the rug out from under you in the last ten minutes. I don't see what people are finding hard to understand about this.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

EJ107 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

You're missing the point. People play video games for escapism. Nobody wants to reminded of real life and nobody likes an ending pulled out of a lazy writer's ass.

Yeah, but video games are a reflection of real life, to a degree. The reason we turn to them for escapism is because they are based on a controlled reality, with the parameters for interaction set by the writers and gameplay designers. Would you be as attached to ME if the characters were just one-dimensional sticks? If the world was just a pile of goo? If there was no conflict? If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

Well, we all put up with Jacob, don't we?

Seriously, I slept with Garrus because he was the most interesting being on the ship. Even Kaidan is terrible. Ashley is somewhat interesting. Tali is the nerdy girl-next-door. Miranda, little miss perfect oh woe is me. Jack, rebel without a cause. The characters aren't really that terrible imaginative.

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

[Super.Sid]

360 Magazine: How on Earth are you going to end Shepard’s story in a satisfactory way for everyone?

Mike Gamble: There are many ways to end Shepard’s story, right? I wouldn’t necessarily say ending Shepard’s story means one thing or the other, like life or death or whatever. It comes to a conclusion and how you get to that conclusion.

There a risks involved in how you get there or how you completely not get there. As in the previous games, you’ll make a decision and you’ll see the outcome and there are huge risks to all of those decisions. It’s not cut and dry.
There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…
_________________________________________________________________________________
So can anyone explain to me what is going on ?

[XX55XX]

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

[tishr]

My biggest issue is oh, we adverted a complete genocide by starting a Almost complete genocide... well that's nice.

[Karrie788]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

This.

I'm gonna talk about DA:O yet again. Those endings were done well. The tone of the game was dark, you had hints that you were going to have to sacrifice something big eventually. And when you finally did, you were left with a bittersweet feeling. Not just bitter.
I cried like a baby when my F!Amell died. But it was great. It fit her and it fit the story I had just been told.

Joker running away and somehow getting the Normandy stranded for the sake of drama feels forced and lazy.

And the "press button so something sucky will happen and the galaxy is saved" is just silly.

Modifié par Karrie788, 03 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

The victory means nothing if the civilization is still privy to falling.

[Sashimi_taco]

Super.Sid wrote...

360 Magazine: How on Earth are you going to end Shepard’s story in a satisfactory way for everyone?

Mike Gamble: There are many ways to end Shepard’s story, right? I wouldn’t necessarily say ending Shepard’s story means one thing or the other, like life or death or whatever. It comes to a conclusion and how you get to that conclusion.

There a risks involved in how you get there or how you completely not get there. As in the previous games, you’ll make a decision and you’ll see the outcome and there are huge risks to all of those decisions. It’s not cut and dry.
There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…
_________________________________________________________________________________
So can anyone explain to me what is going on ?

I have no idea. I mean there are different endings sure, but the end result is shepard dying alone and the people she/he cares about never to see he/she again except for one ending where it is like "shepard is dead... but maybe not?" They are just different paths to the same result, and the paths are not all that different. If this is the end of the story I don't see how there cannot be different way the galaxy ends up, instead of each one the relays are dead and shepard is dead and the crew is ****ed. 

[albertalad]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

Just give me a Sheppard with a shot at life with his chosen L1 and friends. BW already killed Sheppard oncein ME2 and to do that again is lazy writing in the extreme. Moreover, to use cut scenes as an ending driving Sheppard's friends and L1 into inbreeding land with very, very strong hints of incest playing itself out isn't artsy - that downright criminal in every civilized society on this planet and will get you life in prison in North America. You have to be insane to write this and then expect YOUR players NOT rebel, complain, and be outraged in the extreme.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Karrie788 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

This.

I'm gonna talk about DA:O yet again. Those endings were done well. The tone of the game was dark, you had hints that you were going to have to sacrifice something big eventually. And when you finally did, you were left with a bittersweet feeling. Not just bitter.
I cried like a baby when my F!Amell died. But it was great. It fit her and it fit the story I had just been told.

Joker running away and somehow getting the Normandy stranded for the sake of drama feels forced and lazy.

And the "press button so something sucky will happen and the galaxy is saved" is just silly.

And at least you had Morrigan with the option to have a happy yet unsettling ending.

[tishr]

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

It's hard to see the point of all this questing to fight the reapers if all we managed to do is destroy galatic civilization and save 15% to 16% of the inhabitiants.

[Karrie788]

The part with the relays I understand, actually... wasn't it obvious it was gonna happen? It was hinted since ME1.

[recentio]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

This.

I'm gonna talk about DA:O yet again. Those endings were done well. The tone of the game was dark, you had hints that you were going to have to sacrifice something big eventually. And when you finally did, you were left with a bittersweet feeling. Not just bitter.
I cried like a baby when my F!Amell died. But it was great. It fit her and it fit the story I had just been told.

Joker running away and somehow getting the Normandy stranded for the sake of drama feels forced and lazy.

And the "press button so something sucky will happen and the galaxy is saved" is just silly.

And at least you had Morrigan with the option to have a happy yet unsettling ending.

Heh, I enjoyed 'persuading' Alistair to sleep with her...pretty sure he wanted to.

[XX55XX]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

The victory means nothing if the civilization is still privy to falling.

So what? Pyrrhic victories are a common theme in literature. Winning the battle, losing the war. Certainly a cliche, but it's no more a cliche than seeing Shepard and Co. overwhelming the Reapers through brute force alone and then seeing Shepard standing tall before a large crowd of cheering people, LI and squadmates by his side. 

Happy endings are lazy and cliched too. 

[Canned Bullets]

Also, explosion from the Mass Relay can wipe out a planet (as seen in Mass Effect 2's Arrival) wouldn't it mean that a majority of the ships in the Solar System would be wiped out with little surviving life on Earth?

[XX55XX]

albertalad wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

Just give me a Sheppard with a shot at life with his chosen L1 and friends. BW already killed Sheppard oncein ME2 and to do that again is lazy writing in the extreme. Moreover, to use cut scenes as an ending driving Sheppard's friends and L1 into inbreeding land with very, very strong hints of incest playing itself out isn't artsy - that downright criminal in every civilized society on this planet and will get you life in prison in North America. You have to be insane to write this and then expect YOUR players NOT rebel, complain, and be outraged in the extreme.

Whoever said that they were inbreeding in that cutscene? The final epilogue scene can be interpreted as ME being a fictional tale a grandfather told his grandchild, not that Joker and Co. established a colony there. 

[Aesieru]

Canned Bullets wrote...

Also, explosion from the Mass Relay can wipe out a planet (as seen in Mass Effect 2's Arrival) wouldn't it mean that a majority of the ships in the Solar System would be wiped out with little surviving life on Earth?

No, the energy propelled was not an explosion but more they channeled it into the pulse of energy that does whatever you choose.

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

albertalad wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

 If it only featured Shepard walking around and doing the dishes while chatting to his LI about who's going to tuck Junior in that night?

In comparison to what we have now, I would much prefer this.

With this, at least there is a feasible future for the galaxy. All of the endings so far are too vague for anything except for  "Civilization is screwed, and nearly everybody will die".

Like someone said earlier, Grimdark endings aren't artsy, they're lazy. There's a difference between "dark and mature", and "forced and contrived".

Just give me a Sheppard with a shot at life with his chosen L1 and friends. BW already killed Sheppard oncein ME2 and to do that again is lazy writing in the extreme. Moreover, to use cut scenes as an ending driving Sheppard's friends and L1 into inbreeding land with very, very strong hints of incest playing itself out isn't artsy - that downright criminal in every civilized society on this planet and will get you life in prison in North America. You have to be insane to write this and then expect YOUR players NOT rebel, complain, and be outraged in the extreme.

Whoever said that they were inbreeding in that cutscene? The final epilogue scene can be interpreted as ME being a fictional tale a grandfather told his grandchild, not that Joker and Co. established a colony there. 

You expect them to repopulate an entire species on their own, without inbreeding?

[Canned Bullets]

XX55XX wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

The victory means nothing if the civilization is still privy to falling.

So what? Pyrrhic victories are a common theme in literature. Winning the battle, losing the war. Certainly a cliche, but it's no more a cliche than seeing Shepard and Co. overwhelming the Reapers through brute force alone and then seeing Shepard standing tall before a large crowd of cheering people, LI and squadmates by his side. 

Happy endings are lazy and cliched too. 

I'd say grouping all of the endings into one is lazy. At least let the Paragons have a Happy Ending where Mordin has data to rebuild the mass relays and sends them through the Galaxy using comm buoys and an ending where the Relays get destroyed with no chance for the Renegades.

[Karrie788]

Sparatus wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

The part with the relays I understand, actually... wasn't it obvious it was gonna happen? It was hinted since ME1.

I can understand them being destroyed in the merge or destroy ending.

But the hell do they have to blow up in the control ending? What's the point? Where is the logic in that?

... true.

[recentio]

XX55XX wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

The victory means nothing if the civilization is still privy to falling.

So what? Pyrrhic victories are a common theme in literature. Winning the battle, losing the war. Certainly a cliche, but it's no more a cliche than seeing Shepard and Co. overwhelming the Reapers through brute force alone and then seeing Shepard standing tall before a large crowd of cheering people, LI and squadmates by his side. 

Happy endings are lazy and cliched too. 

This is getting so old... No one wants a "Happy Ending". We just want one alternative ending that doesn't destroy everything that we care about in ME. Just because Shep and his LI and/or crew are together at the end DOES NOT MEAN that the relays survive or that every race is saved or anything else. It would still be a dark and "realistic" ending!

[AgitatedLemon]

XX55XX wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Okay, I agree that the ending is lazy because it doesn't explore the aftermath of Shepard's actions through the use of eulogies or ending narration. But the ending in and of itself isn't bad writing at all.

What's so wrong with the relays getting destroyed? What's wrong with the species and their fleets getting trapped in the solar system? At least they won, even as the victory rings hollow.

The victory means nothing if the civilization is still privy to falling.

So what? Pyrrhic victories are a common theme in literature. Winning the battle, losing the war. Certainly a cliche, but it's no more a cliche than seeing Shepard and Co. overwhelming the Reapers through brute force alone and then seeing Shepard standing tall before a large crowd of cheering people, LI and squadmates by his side. 

Happy endings are lazy and cliched too. 

I don't know of many pyrhhic victories that almost completely discount the possibility of rebuilding.