101103 réponses à ce sujet

[RogueWriter3201]

Well, first chance to get back on since BioWare *mysteriously* shut down the servers for "maintenance" last night. Still, kudos to them for not locking this thread among others. Now, that said, have there been any new concrete bits of information concerning where the endings stand? Yes, at this juncture, anyone not in denial is well aware of how ultimately ridiculously bad everything at the end of the game is; i.e. crap-tastic acting, plot device, dialogue, and of course varying degrees of the Hero and Normandy getting effed over for the sake of trying to be "Dramatic." But is there anything new concerning this NG+ rumor, DLC, and so forth? Have the Devs said *anything*?

[Lana Del Rey]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

SomethingSome wrote...

The ME2 squad is mostly safe actually, Thane dies always but I think everyone else's death can be avoided I think.

"Safe" stranded on a lost planet somewhere...

Perhaps, it depends.
Thane dying no matter what upsets me, but I guess it was pretty obvious in ME2. Him getting better from uncurable disease is a bit Deus Ex Machina, and I hate that.

[Killjoy Cutter]

GBGriffin wrote...

Kanmuru wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

Tom Chicks did admit he didn't like the first two games so one may conclude that he isn't as invested on this franchise compared to us fans. Which could also mean that he doesn't really care that much about what happens to the characters or the story. It's like playing ME1 and Ash/Kaiden dies and your reaction's like "oh okay" or in ME2 your whole squad dies and you're like "that sucks...oh well." But hey, 3 days to go let's wait and see. *gets ready for the storm*

Thats a much better counter argument than the "lol paid review" that we get here. But what i got from him is that he enjoyed for the same reasons I did. It was sad to lose your crew but in the end I felt really hopefull for the future of the ME universe. Its not really a grimdark ending (if you keep the crew alive and shep lives too)

I don't buy into the "paid review" bit. I feel that's naive.

Again, you feel glad for the ME universe. As a person who believes the game has, even beyond the choice system, groomed you to care about your squad, I'm thoroughly disappointed in how that was handled. We'll enjoy and dislike the same games for different reasons, so to say that a game critic "enjoyed" the game isn't saying very much, since enjoyment is based on personal experience and context. I'm willing to bet he didn't spend as many hours as I did in ME 1 and 2 playthroughs, for example. Of course he won't care about their fates in the way that I do.

It's not direct payola. 

It's that reviewers who give actively negative previews stop getting advance copies, free swag, access to company staff, etc. 

And too many reviewers are caught up in gameplay and cinematics to notice something like the story.

[Reorte]

goldengamer wrote...

NovemEnuma wrote...

The price...of surviving/defeating once and for all an extinction cycle that been happening for millions of years; a bittersweet ending.

I agree, if you stop a cycle of extinction that has went on for ever and die in the proses in a way you have seceded, their for a bitter/seat ending.  but i can see all of your points. 

That's a bitter victory, not a bittersweet one. A bitter victory is coming home from war and finding all your friends and family dead. A bittersweet one is finding them alive even though their homes have been destroyed and they're struggling, but at least there's hope for you and you'll have yourselves to find some happiness in it. That's why the removal of Shepard from his crew and probably LI is so utterly cruel. Whoever decided that that was the best possible outcome is downright sadistic. Even if Shepard survives does (s)he have anything left worth living for?

[AdhamS]

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

[RogueWriter3201]

AdhamS wrote...

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

Edit required. No Link. 

[Efesell]

It's a bad ending for Shepard, no doubt.

But I guess I'm okay with that because it's.. pretty much what I expected. I'm honestly stunned that an option for him to live exists at all, dreary as it may be.

[Kyria Nyriese]

blooregard wrote...

Canned Bullets wrote...

blooregard wrote...

halo 3: halo array destroyed MC on a ship and is deemed MIA

ME3: mass relay network destroyed shep MIA/KIA normandy deemed MIA

both of the ships are frigates

coincidence? I think not!

At least with Halo the Galaxy wasn't thrown into a Dark Age. The Halo ending would have been better than the leaked ME3 ending if they didn't throw in that stupid "Master Chief lands on an unknown planet" as an excuse to make Halo 4.

Now see theres another issue. Where does it say ME was thrown into a dark age? Grant it they're pretty boned by the looks of it but look at the galaxy as a whole this way


destroy: reapers destroyed a bunch of reaper tech laying around as well as synthetics rebuilding possible

merge: robots and meatbags are now as one reapers are peacful and with their infinite wisdom/tech can rebuild the relay network

control: you are reapers assist galaxy in rebuilding relay network


look at WWII end of war everything sucked 50 years later 75% of the suck is gone (obviously it would take longer to rebuild a galaxy spanning civilization then a few blown to smitheroons cities but the point still stands)

In all endings as of what we know right now, the Relay network is destroyed, that is why people are saying the galaxy is thrown back into the dark ages.

I personally wouldn't go that far with it, but I do say it puts Galactic Civilization back hundreds if not thousands of years.

As for the Reapers.  They are the physical manifestation of a Technological Singularity, which exist to prevent a Technological Singularity by wiping out Organics who may or may not be on the cusp of a Technological Singularity 'ascending' them to become a Reaper which is the physical manifestaiton of a Technological Singularity.  It's called Cicurlar Logic and it goes no where.

[Reorte]

AdhamS wrote...

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

Would be just about acceptable but I fear that you're clutching at straws of hope in vain.

[Killjoy Cutter]

EJ107 wrote...

Forgetting about entitlement and all of that rubbish for a second, Bioware promised people many times an epic conclusion that could diverge wildly, took choices into account and souldn't do a "Lost" and leave people with more questions than answers. 

But the three endings are essentially the same, with very little difference. Your previous choices have very little impact and many are rendered invalid by the finale anyway (Got peace between Quarians and Geth? The Geth all die anyway! Saved that colony in ME1? Without supplies from Mass relays they're dead anyway!)

And there are more questions. We have no idea how much of the universe actually survived, whether Garrus and Tali will starve, where the Normandy landed, or what happened to all the civilisations after the Relay's were destoryed. If Garrus and Tali aren't recruited are they on Earth? There are more unanswered questions than at the end of any other game. 

No, Playing for many hours does not "entitle" us to "happy" endings, but it entitles us to the truth, and many of Biowares statements about the endings verge on outright lies. 

And all that aside, why would Bioware want to write an ending that they know will make many people upset? They like the franchise and they want the fans to be happy, so why pull out poor and depressing endings that will upset the majority of their fans?

My only guess is that they have come to feel that their story is more important than the players' experience, or the players' choices, or what they've been telling the player all along.

See also, the end of DA2.

[rtv053]

I've been eagerly following the conversations on this board ever since I heard about the leaks. I understand people's frustrations, but at the same time, I can't agree with them. I hope that I'll be able to expand upon the following in more exacting detail in some kind of essay post eventually, but here's my two pence.

1) One issue that people seem to have is that the ME universe is fundamentally altered by the destruction of the mass relays, and the subsequent fracturing of the galactic community. But this is what great sci-fi does; it shows change, often on a galactic or universal scale.

And in many ways, this was the only logical endpoint of the series. Manuel at the dig site in ME1 prophesised the end of humanity/the coming of a dark age, and in all the endings, that is more or less what we get. The Reapers created the mass relays to control the way species evolve - so we had to destroy them and find our own path. Legion says pretty much the same thing about the Geth, wanting to find their own way outside of the destiny that might be intended by whoever came before, be it the Quarians or the Reapers.

2) People seem most aggravated by the fact that it is not possible to rescue the Normandy crew from their fate, and furthermore, that if Shepard lives, he is forever seperated from those that he has come to care about most. But why is this wrong?

What is this sense of entitlement that we fans have? Why do we feel that Shepard should be the ONLY person in the entire galaxy who does not lose something in this war? Because, ultimately, if Shepard were able to survive and become reunited with his crew, then truly they would have made no sacrifice at all. With the destruction of the mass relays, so many people all across the galaxy have been, for the foreseeable future, irrevocably seperated in space and time from loved ones, friends, family, homes, jobs, home worlds... if Shepard and the crew of the Normandy did not share in this sacrifice, then all their efforts would be cheapened.

Why is it expected that Shepard should be perfectly happy? What is truly important is that, however battered and broken it may be, the galactic community, and humanity in particular, have survived, and have the opportunity to prosper.

I'll continue to reserve my judgment until I've played and finished the game, but from all I've read, this sounds like a near-perfect ending to a near-perfect gaming series, and one that - however divisive it may eventually become - has touched all of our lives.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Kanmuru wrote...

AdhamS wrote...

I am immature, a kid whatever you want to call me, but this is it....I didnt get worked up to get THIS in the end...Its beyond the red line and I CANT CALM DOWN until we find out the truth....To say I am disgusted would be an understatement........

I hope bioware dosent give us anything just so i can see you all rage and cry on the forums. Its actually really fun seeing you guys have a meltdown:D:D:D 

DO IT Bioware!!! 

Troll much?

[AdhamS]

glenboy24 wrote...

AdhamS wrote...

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

Edit required. No Link. 

Here it is
http://www.gopetitio...-dlc-patch.html

[Ascaladar]

What a storyteller wants is to get emotions from the ones who were following their stories. Not all stories need to have a happy ending and a great victory may come at a heavy price.

[Reorte]

Kyria Nyriese wrote...

In all endings as of what we know right now, the Relay network is destroyed, that is why people are saying the galaxy is thrown back into the dark ages.

I personally wouldn't go that far with it, but I do say it puts Galactic Civilization back hundreds if not thousands of years.

Possibly, although they might still be in (limited) contact; presumably the Normandy and TIM didn't have the only quantum thingummy in the galaxy even though they're rare and expensive.

As for the Reapers.  They are the physical manifestation of a Technological Singularity, which exist to prevent a Technological Singularity by wiping out Organics who may or may not be on the cusp of a Technological Singularity 'ascending' them to become a Reaper which is the physical manifestaiton of a Technological Singularity.  It's called Cicurlar Logic and it goes no where.

The Reapers have always been full of nonsense from the start though. Powerful, arrogant morons is about the best way of summarising them. Another bit of rubbish from them doesn't bother me too much.

[AllThatJazz]

Reorte wrote...

goldengamer wrote...

NovemEnuma wrote...

The price...of surviving/defeating once and for all an extinction cycle that been happening for millions of years; a bittersweet ending.

I agree, if you stop a cycle of extinction that has went on for ever and die in the proses in a way you have seceded, their for a bitter/seat ending.  but i can see all of your points. 

That's a bitter victory, not a bittersweet one. A bitter victory is coming home from war and finding all your friends and family dead. A bittersweet one is finding them alive even though their homes have been destroyed and they're struggling, but at least there's hope for you and you'll have yourselves to find some happiness in it. That's why the removal of Shepard from his crew and probably LI is so utterly cruel. Whoever decided that that was the best possible outcome is downright sadistic. Even if Shepard survives does (s)he have anything left worth living for?

See, for me that wouldn't be bittersweet in a war situation at all. That would pretty much count as the sunshine and rainbows ending if the people I loved were definitely all alive and I could be with them. Not having stuff, being homeless or hungry for a bit or whatever really wouldn't affect that. For me, a bittersweet ending is one where I'm alive (but my family don't know that), and my family are alive (but I don't know it) or something along those lines.

Eh, maybe that's partly why Bio couldn't come up with a 'bittersweet' ending that appealed to all people - definitions of the term are subjective I guess ...

[AdhamS]

Reorte wrote...

AdhamS wrote...

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

Would be just about acceptable but I fear that you're clutching at straws of hope in vain.

Bioware EA= Money money money! Lets give them what they want man! IF they want $$$ fine take it !! TAKE IT GODDAMIT BUT GIVE ME A GOOD ENDING!!

Imagine ur family was kidnapped and  the kidnappers asked for $$$$$ and its either that or BOOM!

Cmon Bioware! GIMME THE DLC! TAKE THE DOUGH AND WE ARE ALL HAPPY....sort of..........

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

rtv053 wrote...
Because, ultimately, if Shepard were able to survive and become reunited with his crew, then truly they would have made no sacrifice at all.

Shepard can and does lose quite a few friends in the game, so I don't think this counts as "no sacrifice".

[blueruin]

rtv053 wrote...

I've been eagerly following the conversations on this board ever since I heard about the leaks. I understand people's frustrations, but at the same time, I can't agree with them. I hope that I'll be able to expand upon the following in more exacting detail in some kind of essay post eventually, but here's my two pence.

1) One issue that people seem to have is that the ME universe is fundamentally altered by the destruction of the mass relays, and the subsequent fracturing of the galactic community. But this is what great sci-fi does; it shows change, often on a galactic or universal scale.

And in many ways, this was the only logical endpoint of the series. Manuel at the dig site in ME1 prophesised the end of humanity/the coming of a dark age, and in all the endings, that is more or less what we get. The Reapers created the mass relays to control the way species evolve - so we had to destroy them and find our own path. Legion says pretty much the same thing about the Geth, wanting to find their own way outside of the destiny that might be intended by whoever came before, be it the Quarians or the Reapers.

2) People seem most aggravated by the fact that it is not possible to rescue the Normandy crew from their fate, and furthermore, that if Shepard lives, he is forever seperated from those that he has come to care about most. But why is this wrong?

What is this sense of entitlement that we fans have? Why do we feel that Shepard should be the ONLY person in the entire galaxy who does not lose something in this war? Because, ultimately, if Shepard were able to survive and become reunited with his crew, then truly they would have made no sacrifice at all. With the destruction of the mass relays, so many people all across the galaxy have been, for the foreseeable future, irrevocably seperated in space and time from loved ones, friends, family, homes, jobs, home worlds... if Shepard and the crew of the Normandy did not share in this sacrifice, then all their efforts would be cheapened.

Why is it expected that Shepard should be perfectly happy? What is truly important is that, however battered and broken it may be, the galactic community, and humanity in particular, have survived, and have the opportunity to prosper.

I'll continue to reserve my judgment until I've played and finished the game, but from all I've read, this sounds like a near-perfect ending to a near-perfect gaming series, and one that - however divisive it may eventually become - has touched all of our lives.

+100 Paragon

[Reorte]

Ascaladar wrote...

What a storyteller wants is to get emotions from the ones who were following their stories. Not all stories need to have a happy ending and a great victory may come at a heavy price.

Upsetting people is always easier than making them happy.

[Lana Del Rey]

AdhamS wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

AdhamS wrote...

This is the link for the Petition....guys spread it ON EVERY DAMN FORUM/ WEBSITE AND TO YOUR FRIENDS!

Yes Bioware won this round-they (hopefully) would release a DLC with the continuation of the storyline after the ending (hopefully for free but who am I kidding?!)

NEXT ROUND WE WIN! That DLC will be the last product we ever buy from Bioware! Atleast we got a satisfying end for our Shepard and his crew via the DLC!

Edit required. No Link. 

Here it is
http://www.gopetitio...-dlc-patch.html

Signed. Number 145. You need to find some better way to spread this.

[Efesell]

rtv053 wrote...

I've been eagerly following the conversations on this board ever since I heard about the leaks. I understand people's frustrations, but at the same time, I can't agree with them. I hope that I'll be able to expand upon the following in more exacting detail in some kind of essay post eventually, but here's my two pence.

1) One issue that people seem to have is that the ME universe is fundamentally altered by the destruction of the mass relays, and the subsequent fracturing of the galactic community. But this is what great sci-fi does; it shows change, often on a galactic or universal scale.

And in many ways, this was the only logical endpoint of the series. Manuel at the dig site in ME1 prophesised the end of humanity/the coming of a dark age, and in all the endings, that is more or less what we get. The Reapers created the mass relays to control the way species evolve - so we had to destroy them and find our own path. Legion says pretty much the same thing about the Geth, wanting to find their own way outside of the destiny that might be intended by whoever came before, be it the Quarians or the Reapers.

2) People seem most aggravated by the fact that it is not possible to rescue the Normandy crew from their fate, and furthermore, that if Shepard lives, he is forever seperated from those that he has come to care about most. But why is this wrong?

What is this sense of entitlement that we fans have? Why do we feel that Shepard should be the ONLY person in the entire galaxy who does not lose something in this war? Because, ultimately, if Shepard were able to survive and become reunited with his crew, then truly they would have made no sacrifice at all. With the destruction of the mass relays, so many people all across the galaxy have been, for the foreseeable future, irrevocably seperated in space and time from loved ones, friends, family, homes, jobs, home worlds... if Shepard and the crew of the Normandy did not share in this sacrifice, then all their efforts would be cheapened.

Why is it expected that Shepard should be perfectly happy? What is truly important is that, however battered and broken it may be, the galactic community, and humanity in particular, have survived, and have the opportunity to prosper.

I'll continue to reserve my judgment until I've played and finished the game, but from all I've read, this sounds like a near-perfect ending to a near-perfect gaming series, and one that - however divisive it may eventually become - has touched all of our lives.

Hear, hear.

Modifié par Efesell, 04 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Canned Bullets]

This just isn't what the fans want and so far only the minority like it.