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[AnttiV]

Beware walls of text. I need to make two points so I divide them amongst two posts. Apologies to the thread, but I NEED to get them out.

First, what - in my opinion - is wrong with the endings:

What really pisses me off in the ME3 endings is down to these points:

Person A and B.

Person A)
Plays through ME1, completionist-style. Full Paragon, makes all the "right" choice, saves everyone. Rachni, Saren (well, he dies, but by his own hand), Council. Everybody. Takes about 40-50 hours. (took me about 44h, but your mileage may wary).
Imports it to ME2, plays it through completionist-style, full Paragon. Saves every possbile person from side quests. Does every character mission, saves everybody. Goes through Omega4 and comes back with everyone alive. Takes about 30-40 hours (took me 48h, but I played Overlord waaaay too long 'cause I got stuck).
Imports it to ME3, plays through every sidequest, gathers every possible asset, gets repuation to max, saves every ass there is to be saved, Rachni (again), Geth AND Quarians, Krogan (really saves, not just lies), everybody. Takes closer to 30h (I took 27h, but I really didn't do all, got myself locked out of some by the coup.)
Now is on the mission to go to the Cerberus Base. TOTAL Assets are probably close to 8000 at this point, I don't really know if it is possible to end with lower than 4000 or higher than 8000 without touching MP. Without MP, effective assests sit at 4000.

Person
Starts ME3, takes randoms answers to the questions. bee-lines through the story, not bothering to collect much. Pisses everybody off. Kills Quarians or Geth, no Rachni to save from ME1. Lies to Krogan and dooms them to the genophage. Generally just gives a finger to everything and everybody. Takes about 10 hours.
Now is on the mission to go to the Cerberus Base. TOTAL Assests are probably at 4000 or so. (3000 is REALLY easy, the remaining 1000 comes pretty easily almost accidentally.)
Plays through 15 Bronze missions successfully. (5 Waves out of 10 count as half a mission, so really 30 failed missions with at least 5 waves completed is enough). Takes 5 to 10 hours. 10 hours for 15 Bronze missions is WWAAAY too much. Bronze is *EASY* You play through 30 * 5 waves in a day, easily.
Each completed Bronze match results in 4% increase in Galatic Readiness. 5 Waves results in 2% increase. 15 completed / 30x 5 waves or any combination there of results in 50% increase in Galactic Readiness, resulting in 100% readiness. Effective assets now sit at 4000.

On the threshold of the point-of-no-return, both players are equal. Another has played ~100 hours of monumental and emotional decisions, the other has played half-assedly for 15 to 20 hours. The other player's ~80 hours of playing is reduces to few numbers in a long list of other numbers (War Assets). The GREAT AND EMOTIONAL DECISIONS™ are really nothing more than a couple two-digit values amongst other numbers.

THAT royally pisses me off. What was "advertised" as monumental decisions and emotional sacrifices and epic story doesn't really, in the end, matter more than a few minutes of MP game time.


Second, greatest thing that is the real killer with the endings: None of that above matters. Not the ~80 hours of previous games, not the ~20h of MP, not the 30h of ME3 gameplay. None of it makes the slightest difference. What you really need is more than 3400 War Assets at 50% readiness. That is enough to save earth. Anything lower than 1700 effective and earth is destroyed. Anything more, and the question is only about two people: Anderson and Shepard. No matter if you have 2000 effective assets, or 560800 (which isn't possible, but just to make a point.) assets. Earth is saved, the ONLY difference betweet that humongous amount is whether Shepard and/or Anderson lives. NOTHING more. No matter if you have 1 asset or 5 thousand million assets, Normandy, unexplained, is in FTL speeds using the relays and gets stranded on an unknown planet, dooming the crew. No matter the assets, Shep is either dead, or forever removed from his friends, ship and LI (which, if you ask me, is just a slower and more cruel form of death). The Citadel explodes. Period. The Relay network gets destroyed. no amount of assets can change that. The galaxy is SCREWED, totally, NO MATTER what you did.

Also, NO MATTER WHAT you do, whether you have ZERO assets or not YOU CANNOT LOSE. Yes, you read that right. If you play it through (And not to a "Game over, reload") there is NO WAY, what so ever, for you to lose to the reapers. EVERY ending has the reapers to either be destroyed or gone. ONLY thing you can lose, with too low assets, is earth. Which, in the grander scale of the galaxy, is quite a bargain.

There are no "LOSING" endings nor are there any "WINNING" endings. All that there is, is half-assed non-endings with unexplained random happenings (GodChildAI? All crew suddenly on Normandy, although they just were on earth. And add to that, Normandy is on FTL travel and gets marooned on an unknown planet? WTF?)

[AnttiV]

Second, to put my "money" where my mouth is, how would *I* have done it. What would be, in my opinion, better endings to the epic tale:

Here goes, my take on what (approximately) the ME3 ending should've been / what would've made it (imo) better / suggestions.

Instead of the Three Choices™ that result in approx. same situation, there should've been FIVE choices.
(Paragon getting more detailing than others, since I almost exclusively play 100% Paragon)

1) Destroy (the "good" ending, but without enough reputation/Paragon).
2) Merge (I don't really have an opinion about this)
3) Control (the "renegade" ending, but without enough reputation/Renegade).
4) (in red, Max Renegade) Use Citadel/Crucible/Guardian as a combined weapon. (available only with Max Assets)
5) (in blue, Max Paragon) Shut down Guardian, repurpose VI and zap the reapers. (available only with Max Assets)

Case 1)
* Destroy the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* With low enough Assets, the resulting explosion destroys Normandy, we see it crashing down towards earth. Crew that Shepard had with him/her is dead.
* With adequate Assets, we see Normandy making an emergency landing on earth after getting hit by flying debris, some crew members might die, depending on rep or somesuch.
* With good Assests, We see Normandy landing on earth (some crew might still be dead), Crew that was with shepard alive, they (all together) give funeral to Shepard.
* Max Assests, we see Normandy landing and the crew that was with Shepard (plus LI if wasn't in the crew) digging Shep out of a rubble or something, Shep clearly alive.


Case 2)
* I don't really have an opinion, might be same as it is, but please no random Normandy FTL/Jump/Crash. Derive from Case 1, but with crew half synthetic. Shep might need to die in any case, but prefer if with Max assests we see Shep alive in the end.


Case 3)
* Take control of the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* Low assests, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Citadel/Relays, explosion kills almost everybody. Fleets, Normandy, Shep, Planets close to Relays.
* Adequate Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Relay network. Explosion kills fleets, shep, planets close to Relays. We see Normandy crash-land, someone walks out alive.
* Good Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, they destroy Relays. explosion kills most of the fleet and planets close to relats. we see Normandy making an emergency landing to earth, some of the crew alive, perhaps LI mourning Shep and holding a picture/piece of armor.
* Max Assets, Shep either commands the reapers to to leave, which leads to destruction of the Relays, or leaves his/her body behind and becomes one of the reapers and then commanding them to leave, perhaps destroying only the citadel. Normandy lands on earth and crew comes out. If Shep chose to stay, they dig Shep out of a rubble with LI leading the digging. If Shep turned into a reaper, crew and LI talking to a VI-like projection of Shep-Reaper who says she/he'll lead the Reapers into the Darkspace. For Now.


Case 4)
* Shep "kills" Guardian and reprograms/repurposes the thing and uses it as a weapon to target the Relay Network and destroy reapers.
* Willingly destroys Relays and dooms almost all other races to save Earth
* Planets near Relays destroyed, Alien fleets stranded on Sol, but resulting burst of energy from the combined weapon destroys almost every ship in the fleets
* we see Normandy landing on earth, crew walking out (depending on some factors, some of them may be dead).
* EDI & Geth destroyed in the burst, we see Joker mourning EDI, if he wasn't killed himself.
* Shep standing on some ruins together with LI, perhaps holding blueprints of a future city / FTL drive / mass relay.
* Life, for humans, will continue, other races crippled perhaps beyond salvation, Shep and LI alive.

Case 5)
* Shep makes Guardian shutdown/alter itself to be used as a blast to shutdown reapers.
* can't do everything there, need to hit switches / hack computers in different places of citadel. Perhaps with time limit (although I detest time limits).
* each switch/hack location is defended by reaper forces, depending on what choices Shep has made during the game(s), different things happen
- Saved Rachni: On one location, a group of Rachni Warriors join shep and help attack the reaper forces
- Have Turians on board: on the way to one location, Turian Dreadnoughts fire through cracks in citadel and destroy a large part of defending force.
- Really saved Krogan (told about sabotage): on the way to one location a group of Krogan blast through a wall and assault a large reaper force, allowing Shep to make a straighter and faster way towards the location, saving much time.
- Saved Quarians or Geth: At one location, Quarians/Geth launch an EMP attack from outside the citadel, disabling a large part of defending force.
- If both Geth AND Quarians saved: At above location, the force is Quarians. At another location, Geth drive a ship to the Citadel and upload themselves to some inactive guard robots onboard of Citadel and help Shep to dispose of the defenders.
* When all switching/hacking is finished, Shep goes (races to, perhaps, depending on how long the activities took) back to the "Guardian Console" and can use the device.
* Choice:
- either use the pulse to shut down the Relay network and the Reapers with raw power (and thus disabling Geth and EDI in the process). With power going down, the reapers use the relays to escape back to darkspace. Relays shut down one after the other as the fleeing reapers use the last of their power to keep themselves running and go away. For Now.
- Or, sacrifice most of humanity to draw power from Sun/Earth to boost the operating power of the device and allow greater finess of the system. Resulting pulse shuts down, immediately, every reaper across the galaxy. But as the power was more refined, EDI and the Geth can be saved. Relays shut down as the pulse works throught them, but it is hinted that they only need to be restarted for them to work again. With sufficient unified effort by the now saved galaxy, the relays could be up and running in a few years or somesuch.
* Earth is show desolate, with some population. Not quite unlike Tuchanka. Life goes on in the Galaxy and everywhere statues and memorials are raised to remember what sacrifice humans made for everyone else to continue living.
* Humans are not wiped out, colonies remain and even on earth there are still population, but it will take years and years for humans to rise up to the power they were.
* We see Normandy crew (not LI) standing on some large capital ship, perhaps with Hackett/Anderson, watching out into the deep space.
* We hear LI or Shep voice over "It would be so easy for one ship to just.. get lost in the stars."
* Cut to scene where Shep sits somewhere, watching the stars above. LI walks to Shep's side and puts a hand on his/her shoulder. Both turn to face downwards, looking at the tummy of whichever of them is female. (impying she's pregnant.)

That last paragon ending is really what I wanted/expected from the games. There is sooo much buildup to something like that, and then it all falls flat in the end. But, that's just my opinion. (although all the games have allowed MY opinion and MY choices, except the very end, which was a rail-road journey.) But, have at it, I just needed to get that out.

[Ameno Xiel]

http://www.pic-uploa...60b40329cfaab7 

[XenoAlbedo]

Not to mention Grandpa (Joker?) telling a story with robo-zombies, blood, gore, language, apocalyptic sitiuations, and sex to a kid before he has to go to bed.

Modifié par XenoAlbedo, 09 mars 2012 - 05:20 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Not to mention Grandpa (Joker?) telling a story with robo-zombies, blood, gore, language, apocalyptic sitiuations, and sex to a kid before he has to go to bed.

Yeah, if I was that kid I'd be bawling my eyes out, not asking for him to "tell me another story about the Shepard, gramps".

[humes spork]

adneate wrote...

Yeah he needed to help Joker pump gas for the Normandy. Honestly the Earth squaddies showing up on planet plot contrivance is for me the single most offensive thing in these abominations called endings. There is no logic behind them being on the Normandy again, they were on Earth there's a reaper fleet above they have no reason to go back on the Normandy. None.

You know, I've been thinking about that and I think there were missing cutscenes there that would have explained quite a bit. It strikes me that after Harbinger landed, held the Reaper-Conduit and got all Mr. Melty-Face on Shepard and Anderson (otherwise known as Hammer's entire command structure), Hammer probably would have been scrubbed entirely and the survivng ground forces retreated and evacuated. The Normandy, being a stealth ship, would have been just about one of the only ships capable of evacuating ground forces and ensuring "continuity of civilization" as put earlier in the game, and Shepard's squad all being high-value individuals would have gotten priority on evacuation. Considering the stakes, Hackett went all-in on Sword and Shell to cover the Normandy's retreat and in vain hopes for a last-ditch reprieve.

There's obviously a significant time passage before Shepard ate Reaper beam and woke up, considering Harbinger and the other Reapers had left and the only other things living at the Reaper-Conduit were husks and a cannibal. It's just not shown on-screen, presumably for the fact at this point the game is nothing but Shepard's perspective. There are still problems with the ending, but as best I can figure that fills in the gaps.

[XenoAlbedo]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

XenoAlbedo wrote...

Not to mention Grandpa (Joker?) telling a story with robo-zombies, blood, gore, language, apocalyptic sitiuations, and sex to a kid before he has to go to bed.

Yeah, if I was that kid I'd be bawling my eyes out, not asking for him to "tell me another story about the Shepard, gramps".

Same. Maybe the kid was a symbolic version of EA.

[Militarized]

AnttiV wrote...

Second, to put my "money" where my mouth is, how would *I* have done it. What would be, in my opinion, better endings to the epic tale:

Here goes, my take on what (approximately) the ME3 ending should've been / what would've made it (imo) better / suggestions.

Instead of the Three Choices™ that result in approx. same situation, there should've been FIVE choices.
(Paragon getting more detailing than others, since I almost exclusively play 100% Paragon)

1) Destroy (the "good" ending, but without enough reputation/Paragon).
2) Merge (I don't really have an opinion about this)
3) Control (the "renegade" ending, but without enough reputation/Renegade).
4) (in red, Max Renegade) Use Citadel/Crucible/Guardian as a combined weapon. (available only with Max Assets)
5) (in blue, Max Paragon) Shut down Guardian, repurpose VI and zap the reapers. (available only with Max Assets)

Case 1)
* Destroy the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* With low enough Assets, the resulting explosion destroys Normandy, we see it crashing down towards earth. Crew that Shepard had with him/her is dead.
* With adequate Assets, we see Normandy making an emergency landing on earth after getting hit by flying debris, some crew members might die, depending on rep or somesuch.
* With good Assests, We see Normandy landing on earth (some crew might still be dead), Crew that was with shepard alive, they (all together) give funeral to Shepard.
* Max Assests, we see Normandy landing and the crew that was with Shepard (plus LI if wasn't in the crew) digging Shep out of a rubble or something, Shep clearly alive.


Case 2)
* I don't really have an opinion, might be same as it is, but please no random Normandy FTL/Jump/Crash. Derive from Case 1, but with crew half synthetic. Shep might need to die in any case, but prefer if with Max assests we see Shep alive in the end.


Case 3)
* Take control of the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* Low assests, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Citadel/Relays, explosion kills almost everybody. Fleets, Normandy, Shep, Planets close to Relays.
* Adequate Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Relay network. Explosion kills fleets, shep, planets close to Relays. We see Normandy crash-land, someone walks out alive.
* Good Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, they destroy Relays. explosion kills most of the fleet and planets close to relats. we see Normandy making an emergency landing to earth, some of the crew alive, perhaps LI mourning Shep and holding a picture/piece of armor.
* Max Assets, Shep either commands the reapers to to leave, which leads to destruction of the Relays, or leaves his/her body behind and becomes one of the reapers and then commanding them to leave, perhaps destroying only the citadel. Normandy lands on earth and crew comes out. If Shep chose to stay, they dig Shep out of a rubble with LI leading the digging. If Shep turned into a reaper, crew and LI talking to a VI-like projection of Shep-Reaper who says she/he'll lead the Reapers into the Darkspace. For Now.


Case 4)
* Shep "kills" Guardian and reprograms/repurposes the thing and uses it as a weapon to target the Relay Network and destroy reapers.
* Willingly destroys Relays and dooms almost all other races to save Earth
* Planets near Relays destroyed, Alien fleets stranded on Sol, but resulting burst of energy from the combined weapon destroys almost every ship in the fleets
* we see Normandy landing on earth, crew walking out (depending on some factors, some of them may be dead).
* EDI & Geth destroyed in the burst, we see Joker mourning EDI, if he wasn't killed himself.
* Shep standing on some ruins together with LI, perhaps holding blueprints of a future city / FTL drive / mass relay.
* Life, for humans, will continue, other races crippled perhaps beyond salvation, Shep and LI alive.

Case 5)
* Shep makes Guardian shutdown/alter itself to be used as a blast to shutdown reapers.
* can't do everything there, need to hit switches / hack computers in different places of citadel. Perhaps with time limit (although I detest time limits).
* each switch/hack location is defended by reaper forces, depending on what choices Shep has made during the game(s), different things happen
- Saved Rachni: On one location, a group of Rachni Warriors join shep and help attack the reaper forces
- Have Turians on board: on the way to one location, Turian Dreadnoughts fire through cracks in citadel and destroy a large part of defending force.
- Really saved Krogan (told about sabotage): on the way to one location a group of Krogan blast through a wall and assault a large reaper force, allowing Shep to make a straighter and faster way towards the location, saving much time.
- Saved Quarians or Geth: At one location, Quarians/Geth launch an EMP attack from outside the citadel, disabling a large part of defending force.
- If both Geth AND Quarians saved: At above location, the force is Quarians. At another location, Geth drive a ship to the Citadel and upload themselves to some inactive guard robots onboard of Citadel and help Shep to dispose of the defenders.
* When all switching/hacking is finished, Shep goes (races to, perhaps, depending on how long the activities took) back to the "Guardian Console" and can use the device.
* Choice:
- either use the pulse to shut down the Relay network and the Reapers with raw power (and thus disabling Geth and EDI in the process). With power going down, the reapers use the relays to escape back to darkspace. Relays shut down one after the other as the fleeing reapers use the last of their power to keep themselves running and go away. For Now.
- Or, sacrifice most of humanity to draw power from Sun/Earth to boost the operating power of the device and allow greater finess of the system. Resulting pulse shuts down, immediately, every reaper across the galaxy. But as the power was more refined, EDI and the Geth can be saved. Relays shut down as the pulse works throught them, but it is hinted that they only need to be restarted for them to work again. With sufficient unified effort by the now saved galaxy, the relays could be up and running in a few years or somesuch.
* Earth is show desolate, with some population. Not quite unlike Tuchanka. Life goes on in the Galaxy and everywhere statues and memorials are raised to remember what sacrifice humans made for everyone else to continue living.
* Humans are not wiped out, colonies remain and even on earth there are still population, but it will take years and years for humans to rise up to the power they were.
* We see Normandy crew (not LI) standing on some large capital ship, perhaps with Hackett/Anderson, watching out into the deep space.
* We hear LI or Shep voice over "It would be so easy for one ship to just.. get lost in the stars."
* Cut to scene where Shep sits somewhere, watching the stars above. LI walks to Shep's side and puts a hand on his/her shoulder. Both turn to face downwards, looking at the tummy of whichever of them is female. (impying she's pregnant.)

That last paragon ending is really what I wanted/expected from the games. There is sooo much buildup to something like that, and then it all falls flat in the end. But, that's just my opinion. (although all the games have allowed MY opinion and MY choices, except the very end, which was a rail-road journey.) But, have at it, I just needed to get that out.

You should be hired by Bioware to write the DLC ending, or given a cash reward for what their writers go off of. THIS IS WHAT I IMAGINED. IT IS PERFECT! All of those endings with the proper variables are perfectly acceptable -PERFECTLY-. Your choices would matter, the assessets would matter.... I you. lol I'm going to pretend your paragon ending was my paragon ending because well, I did the exact same thing as you. 

Pay attention to this Bioware. 

[Elenterx]

 




Seems legit.

Modifié par Elenterx, 09 mars 2012 - 05:29 .

[XenoAlbedo]

Essentially massception!

[10K]

Elenterx wrote...

 




Seems legit.

LOL  this is so correct.

[demonpo]

Michael Gamble: Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever.


Ok, i prepared my money

[lucidfox]

Just finished the game.

For the record, I selected the Merge ending. I really don't see how Destroy is supposedly the "good" ending. Yes, the Reapers are gone, but you just undid Legion's hard work and sacrifice (assuming the geth situation ended that way), and ultimately you solved nothing, only postponed the decision, but at least Shepard lives, so that's good, right? Right?

Anyway, I'll need to write a longer post at some point, but my issue with this ending is that it manages to combine two, in my opinion, worst ways to end a game: deus ex machina and "rocks fall, everyone dies". Neverwinter Nights 2 was not made by BioWare, but it could teach them how not to end a game, especially one with a colorful cast you've got emotionally invested in.

The ending buildup is magnificent, despite the cliche lines and glaring plot holes. The whole sequence, from landing on Earth and the showdown with Anderson and TIM, is masterfully executed. It evoked emotions in me on a level that no BioWare game had managed to.

Then this.

The Guardian is a completely out of the blue (literally!) development that doesn't fit with the tone of the rest of the game, and the mechanism that implements your decision doesn't even make sense on the setting's own terms. All this buildup, overcoming impossible odds, making the player work hard for the ending... and this is the reward. It may have worked in a novel, but this is a game. I can see why players are annoyed.

And the fate of the Normandy... Stranded by exploding relay? Really? Even discounting the absurdity of the situation... this is how you conclude the stories of the people who followed you faithfully since ME1?

Rocks fall. Everyone is stranded.

It's like the whole thing was run by a sadistic GM who decided to punish the party at the moment when they last expect it - when they feel they've earned their ending. Brilliant. I knew this was coming, because I was spoiled about the ending, but still, seeing it... I have trouble believing it.

Modifié par lucidfox, 09 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Militarized]

demonpo wrote...

Michael Gamble: Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever.


Ok, i prepared my money

Ugh, please they should release it for free to fix their screw up. 

[demonpo]

Militarized wrote...

demonpo wrote...

Michael Gamble: Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever.


Ok, i prepared my money

Ugh, please they should release it for free to fix their screw up. 

I agree with you that we should .... but still I hope you're right:mellow:

[mauro2222]

I wonder how Joker populated the planet with Tali and Javik, beautiful childs xD

Seriously though, what's the meaning of the planet? Everytime that I see that I'm waiting for someone to say "Jake Sully?"

[I can Hackett]

I desperately need closure I cant get outta bed

[leianajade]

I think it's too soon to expect any change like we're looking for. There needs to be a lot more, vocal, and well-written backlash.

Trolling about it won't get it done, however, our best shot would be in the form of petitions, blogs, and a decently organized fan response to bioware/ea. If you're serious about trying, prepare to be at this for a couple of months, at least.

[Neroteyen]

AnttiV wrote...

Second, to put my "money" where my mouth is, how would *I* have done it. What would be, in my opinion, better endings to the epic tale:

Here goes, my take on what (approximately) the ME3 ending should've been / what would've made it (imo) better / suggestions.

Instead of the Three Choices™ that result in approx. same situation, there should've been FIVE choices.
(Paragon getting more detailing than others, since I almost exclusively play 100% Paragon)

1) Destroy (the "good" ending, but without enough reputation/Paragon).
2) Merge (I don't really have an opinion about this)
3) Control (the "renegade" ending, but without enough reputation/Renegade).
4) (in red, Max Renegade) Use Citadel/Crucible/Guardian as a combined weapon. (available only with Max Assets)
5) (in blue, Max Paragon) Shut down Guardian, repurpose VI and zap the reapers. (available only with Max Assets)

Case 1)
* Destroy the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* With low enough Assets, the resulting explosion destroys Normandy, we see it crashing down towards earth. Crew that Shepard had with him/her is dead.
* With adequate Assets, we see Normandy making an emergency landing on earth after getting hit by flying debris, some crew members might die, depending on rep or somesuch.
* With good Assests, We see Normandy landing on earth (some crew might still be dead), Crew that was with shepard alive, they (all together) give funeral to Shepard.
* Max Assests, we see Normandy landing and the crew that was with Shepard (plus LI if wasn't in the crew) digging Shep out of a rubble or something, Shep clearly alive.


Case 2)
* I don't really have an opinion, might be same as it is, but please no random Normandy FTL/Jump/Crash. Derive from Case 1, but with crew half synthetic. Shep might need to die in any case, but prefer if with Max assests we see Shep alive in the end.


Case 3)
* Take control of the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* Low assests, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Citadel/Relays, explosion kills almost everybody. Fleets, Normandy, Shep, Planets close to Relays.
* Adequate Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Relay network. Explosion kills fleets, shep, planets close to Relays. We see Normandy crash-land, someone walks out alive.
* Good Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, they destroy Relays. explosion kills most of the fleet and planets close to relats. we see Normandy making an emergency landing to earth, some of the crew alive, perhaps LI mourning Shep and holding a picture/piece of armor.
* Max Assets, Shep either commands the reapers to to leave, which leads to destruction of the Relays, or leaves his/her body behind and becomes one of the reapers and then commanding them to leave, perhaps destroying only the citadel. Normandy lands on earth and crew comes out. If Shep chose to stay, they dig Shep out of a rubble with LI leading the digging. If Shep turned into a reaper, crew and LI talking to a VI-like projection of Shep-Reaper who says she/he'll lead the Reapers into the Darkspace. For Now.


Case 4)
* Shep "kills" Guardian and reprograms/repurposes the thing and uses it as a weapon to target the Relay Network and destroy reapers.
* Willingly destroys Relays and dooms almost all other races to save Earth
* Planets near Relays destroyed, Alien fleets stranded on Sol, but resulting burst of energy from the combined weapon destroys almost every ship in the fleets
* we see Normandy landing on earth, crew walking out (depending on some factors, some of them may be dead).
* EDI & Geth destroyed in the burst, we see Joker mourning EDI, if he wasn't killed himself.
* Shep standing on some ruins together with LI, perhaps holding blueprints of a future city / FTL drive / mass relay.
* Life, for humans, will continue, other races crippled perhaps beyond salvation, Shep and LI alive.

Case 5)
* Shep makes Guardian shutdown/alter itself to be used as a blast to shutdown reapers.
* can't do everything there, need to hit switches / hack computers in different places of citadel. Perhaps with time limit (although I detest time limits).
* each switch/hack location is defended by reaper forces, depending on what choices Shep has made during the game(s), different things happen
- Saved Rachni: On one location, a group of Rachni Warriors join shep and help attack the reaper forces
- Have Turians on board: on the way to one location, Turian Dreadnoughts fire through cracks in citadel and destroy a large part of defending force.
- Really saved Krogan (told about sabotage): on the way to one location a group of Krogan blast through a wall and assault a large reaper force, allowing Shep to make a straighter and faster way towards the location, saving much time.
- Saved Quarians or Geth: At one location, Quarians/Geth launch an EMP attack from outside the citadel, disabling a large part of defending force.
- If both Geth AND Quarians saved: At above location, the force is Quarians. At another location, Geth drive a ship to the Citadel and upload themselves to some inactive guard robots onboard of Citadel and help Shep to dispose of the defenders.
* When all switching/hacking is finished, Shep goes (races to, perhaps, depending on how long the activities took) back to the "Guardian Console" and can use the device.
* Choice:
- either use the pulse to shut down the Relay network and the Reapers with raw power (and thus disabling Geth and EDI in the process). With power going down, the reapers use the relays to escape back to darkspace. Relays shut down one after the other as the fleeing reapers use the last of their power to keep themselves running and go away. For Now.
- Or, sacrifice most of humanity to draw power from Sun/Earth to boost the operating power of the device and allow greater finess of the system. Resulting pulse shuts down, immediately, every reaper across the galaxy. But as the power was more refined, EDI and the Geth can be saved. Relays shut down as the pulse works throught them, but it is hinted that they only need to be restarted for them to work again. With sufficient unified effort by the now saved galaxy, the relays could be up and running in a few years or somesuch.
* Earth is show desolate, with some population. Not quite unlike Tuchanka. Life goes on in the Galaxy and everywhere statues and memorials are raised to remember what sacrifice humans made for everyone else to continue living.
* Humans are not wiped out, colonies remain and even on earth there are still population, but it will take years and years for humans to rise up to the power they were.
* We see Normandy crew (not LI) standing on some large capital ship, perhaps with Hackett/Anderson, watching out into the deep space.
* We hear LI or Shep voice over "It would be so easy for one ship to just.. get lost in the stars."
* Cut to scene where Shep sits somewhere, watching the stars above. LI walks to Shep's side and puts a hand on his/her shoulder. Both turn to face downwards, looking at the tummy of whichever of them is female. (impying she's pregnant.)

That last paragon ending is really what I wanted/expected from the games. There is sooo much buildup to something like that, and then it all falls flat in the end. But, that's just my opinion. (although all the games have allowed MY opinion and MY choices, except the very end, which was a rail-road journey.) But, have at it, I just needed to get that out.

THIS BIOWARE!! Heck just lets us write our own freaking endings and you go screw up some other story

[laughing sherpa girl]

yeahhhh, i get it now... The solarians wanted to wage a war so they created the krogan. Once the war was over, the solarians decided these were a dangerous race, and took steps to control their population. The quarians created the geth but once they started to think for themselves they became a threat and so had to be eliminated. The reapers created the rest of the races, even human, and when discovered that the races could attain the same level as they had, decided they had to be eliminated..
What a repetitive pile. Seen from this perspective, the god child at the end makes sense, its just that now instead of krogan or geth, its our turn.
pathetic..

[mauro2222]

Hey wait... I don't have the Synthesis ending? Why? and what's the difference?

[P_sutherland]

well... next time someone asks.... "what does god need with a starship?" we know the answers to wipe out all organic life every 50k years.

[laughing sherpa girl]

Neroteyen wrote...

AnttiV wrote...

Second, to put my "money" where my mouth is, how would *I* have done it. What would be, in my opinion, better endings to the epic tale:

Here goes, my take on what (approximately) the ME3 ending should've been / what would've made it (imo) better / suggestions.

Instead of the Three Choices™ that result in approx. same situation, there should've been FIVE choices.
(Paragon getting more detailing than others, since I almost exclusively play 100% Paragon)

1) Destroy (the "good" ending, but without enough reputation/Paragon).
2) Merge (I don't really have an opinion about this)
3) Control (the "renegade" ending, but without enough reputation/Renegade).
4) (in red, Max Renegade) Use Citadel/Crucible/Guardian as a combined weapon. (available only with Max Assets)
5) (in blue, Max Paragon) Shut down Guardian, repurpose VI and zap the reapers. (available only with Max Assets)

Case 1)
* Destroy the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* With low enough Assets, the resulting explosion destroys Normandy, we see it crashing down towards earth. Crew that Shepard had with him/her is dead.
* With adequate Assets, we see Normandy making an emergency landing on earth after getting hit by flying debris, some crew members might die, depending on rep or somesuch.
* With good Assests, We see Normandy landing on earth (some crew might still be dead), Crew that was with shepard alive, they (all together) give funeral to Shepard.
* Max Assests, we see Normandy landing and the crew that was with Shepard (plus LI if wasn't in the crew) digging Shep out of a rubble or something, Shep clearly alive.


Case 2)
* I don't really have an opinion, might be same as it is, but please no random Normandy FTL/Jump/Crash. Derive from Case 1, but with crew half synthetic. Shep might need to die in any case, but prefer if with Max assests we see Shep alive in the end.


Case 3)
* Take control of the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* Low assests, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Citadel/Relays, explosion kills almost everybody. Fleets, Normandy, Shep, Planets close to Relays.
* Adequate Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Relay network. Explosion kills fleets, shep, planets close to Relays. We see Normandy crash-land, someone walks out alive.
* Good Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, they destroy Relays. explosion kills most of the fleet and planets close to relats. we see Normandy making an emergency landing to earth, some of the crew alive, perhaps LI mourning Shep and holding a picture/piece of armor.
* Max Assets, Shep either commands the reapers to to leave, which leads to destruction of the Relays, or leaves his/her body behind and becomes one of the reapers and then commanding them to leave, perhaps destroying only the citadel. Normandy lands on earth and crew comes out. If Shep chose to stay, they dig Shep out of a rubble with LI leading the digging. If Shep turned into a reaper, crew and LI talking to a VI-like projection of Shep-Reaper who says she/he'll lead the Reapers into the Darkspace. For Now.


Case 4)
* Shep "kills" Guardian and reprograms/repurposes the thing and uses it as a weapon to target the Relay Network and destroy reapers.
* Willingly destroys Relays and dooms almost all other races to save Earth
* Planets near Relays destroyed, Alien fleets stranded on Sol, but resulting burst of energy from the combined weapon destroys almost every ship in the fleets
* we see Normandy landing on earth, crew walking out (depending on some factors, some of them may be dead).
* EDI & Geth destroyed in the burst, we see Joker mourning EDI, if he wasn't killed himself.
* Shep standing on some ruins together with LI, perhaps holding blueprints of a future city / FTL drive / mass relay.
* Life, for humans, will continue, other races crippled perhaps beyond salvation, Shep and LI alive.

Case 5)
* Shep makes Guardian shutdown/alter itself to be used as a blast to shutdown reapers.
* can't do everything there, need to hit switches / hack computers in different places of citadel. Perhaps with time limit (although I detest time limits).
* each switch/hack location is defended by reaper forces, depending on what choices Shep has made during the game(s), different things happen
- Saved Rachni: On one location, a group of Rachni Warriors join shep and help attack the reaper forces
- Have Turians on board: on the way to one location, Turian Dreadnoughts fire through cracks in citadel and destroy a large part of defending force.
- Really saved Krogan (told about sabotage): on the way to one location a group of Krogan blast through a wall and assault a large reaper force, allowing Shep to make a straighter and faster way towards the location, saving much time.
- Saved Quarians or Geth: At one location, Quarians/Geth launch an EMP attack from outside the citadel, disabling a large part of defending force.
- If both Geth AND Quarians saved: At above location, the force is Quarians. At another location, Geth drive a ship to the Citadel and upload themselves to some inactive guard robots onboard of Citadel and help Shep to dispose of the defenders.
* When all switching/hacking is finished, Shep goes (races to, perhaps, depending on how long the activities took) back to the "Guardian Console" and can use the device.
* Choice:
- either use the pulse to shut down the Relay network and the Reapers with raw power (and thus disabling Geth and EDI in the process). With power going down, the reapers use the relays to escape back to darkspace. Relays shut down one after the other as the fleeing reapers use the last of their power to keep themselves running and go away. For Now.
- Or, sacrifice most of humanity to draw power from Sun/Earth to boost the operating power of the device and allow greater finess of the system. Resulting pulse shuts down, immediately, every reaper across the galaxy. But as the power was more refined, EDI and the Geth can be saved. Relays shut down as the pulse works throught them, but it is hinted that they only need to be restarted for them to work again. With sufficient unified effort by the now saved galaxy, the relays could be up and running in a few years or somesuch.
* Earth is show desolate, with some population. Not quite unlike Tuchanka. Life goes on in the Galaxy and everywhere statues and memorials are raised to remember what sacrifice humans made for everyone else to continue living.
* Humans are not wiped out, colonies remain and even on earth there are still population, but it will take years and years for humans to rise up to the power they were.
* We see Normandy crew (not LI) standing on some large capital ship, perhaps with Hackett/Anderson, watching out into the deep space.
* We hear LI or Shep voice over "It would be so easy for one ship to just.. get lost in the stars."
* Cut to scene where Shep sits somewhere, watching the stars above. LI walks to Shep's side and puts a hand on his/her shoulder. Both turn to face downwards, looking at the tummy of whichever of them is female. (impying she's pregnant.)

That last paragon ending is really what I wanted/expected from the games. There is sooo much buildup to something like that, and then it all falls flat in the end. But, that's just my opinion. (although all the games have allowed MY opinion and MY choices, except the very end, which was a rail-road journey.) But, have at it, I just needed to get that out.

THIS BIOWARE!! Heck just lets us write our own freaking endings and you go screw up some other story

Agreed. the oony thing missing is gettingg theNormandy into the main battle clearing the way for the ground troops and kicking harbingers ass.

[J5550123]

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Neroteyen wrote...

AnttiV wrote...

Second, to put my "money" where my mouth is, how would *I* have done it. What would be, in my opinion, better endings to the epic tale:

Here goes, my take on what (approximately) the ME3 ending should've been / what would've made it (imo) better / suggestions.

Instead of the Three Choices™ that result in approx. same situation, there should've been FIVE choices.
(Paragon getting more detailing than others, since I almost exclusively play 100% Paragon)

1) Destroy (the "good" ending, but without enough reputation/Paragon).
2) Merge (I don't really have an opinion about this)
3) Control (the "renegade" ending, but without enough reputation/Renegade).
4) (in red, Max Renegade) Use Citadel/Crucible/Guardian as a combined weapon. (available only with Max Assets)
5) (in blue, Max Paragon) Shut down Guardian, repurpose VI and zap the reapers. (available only with Max Assets)

Case 1)
* Destroy the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* With low enough Assets, the resulting explosion destroys Normandy, we see it crashing down towards earth. Crew that Shepard had with him/her is dead.
* With adequate Assets, we see Normandy making an emergency landing on earth after getting hit by flying debris, some crew members might die, depending on rep or somesuch.
* With good Assests, We see Normandy landing on earth (some crew might still be dead), Crew that was with shepard alive, they (all together) give funeral to Shepard.
* Max Assests, we see Normandy landing and the crew that was with Shepard (plus LI if wasn't in the crew) digging Shep out of a rubble or something, Shep clearly alive.


Case 2)
* I don't really have an opinion, might be same as it is, but please no random Normandy FTL/Jump/Crash. Derive from Case 1, but with crew half synthetic. Shep might need to die in any case, but prefer if with Max assests we see Shep alive in the end.


Case 3)
* Take control of the reapers
* Relay network destroyed, other races' fleets probably stranded on Sol
* Depending on War Assests Earth survives/is destroyed, same for Shepard. Enough assests gets you living Shepard and Earth.
* Low assests, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Citadel/Relays, explosion kills almost everybody. Fleets, Normandy, Shep, Planets close to Relays.
* Adequate Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, but they destroy Relay network. Explosion kills fleets, shep, planets close to Relays. We see Normandy crash-land, someone walks out alive.
* Good Assets, Shep commands Reapers to leave, they destroy Relays. explosion kills most of the fleet and planets close to relats. we see Normandy making an emergency landing to earth, some of the crew alive, perhaps LI mourning Shep and holding a picture/piece of armor.
* Max Assets, Shep either commands the reapers to to leave, which leads to destruction of the Relays, or leaves his/her body behind and becomes one of the reapers and then commanding them to leave, perhaps destroying only the citadel. Normandy lands on earth and crew comes out. If Shep chose to stay, they dig Shep out of a rubble with LI leading the digging. If Shep turned into a reaper, crew and LI talking to a VI-like projection of Shep-Reaper who says she/he'll lead the Reapers into the Darkspace. For Now.


Case 4)
* Shep "kills" Guardian and reprograms/repurposes the thing and uses it as a weapon to target the Relay Network and destroy reapers.
* Willingly destroys Relays and dooms almost all other races to save Earth
* Planets near Relays destroyed, Alien fleets stranded on Sol, but resulting burst of energy from the combined weapon destroys almost every ship in the fleets
* we see Normandy landing on earth, crew walking out (depending on some factors, some of them may be dead).
* EDI & Geth destroyed in the burst, we see Joker mourning EDI, if he wasn't killed himself.
* Shep standing on some ruins together with LI, perhaps holding blueprints of a future city / FTL drive / mass relay.
* Life, for humans, will continue, other races crippled perhaps beyond salvation, Shep and LI alive.

Case 5)
* Shep makes Guardian shutdown/alter itself to be used as a blast to shutdown reapers.
* can't do everything there, need to hit switches / hack computers in different places of citadel. Perhaps with time limit (although I detest time limits).
* each switch/hack location is defended by reaper forces, depending on what choices Shep has made during the game(s), different things happen
- Saved Rachni: On one location, a group of Rachni Warriors join shep and help attack the reaper forces
- Have Turians on board: on the way to one location, Turian Dreadnoughts fire through cracks in citadel and destroy a large part of defending force.
- Really saved Krogan (told about sabotage): on the way to one location a group of Krogan blast through a wall and assault a large reaper force, allowing Shep to make a straighter and faster way towards the location, saving much time.
- Saved Quarians or Geth: At one location, Quarians/Geth launch an EMP attack from outside the citadel, disabling a large part of defending force.
- If both Geth AND Quarians saved: At above location, the force is Quarians. At another location, Geth drive a ship to the Citadel and upload themselves to some inactive guard robots onboard of Citadel and help Shep to dispose of the defenders.
* When all switching/hacking is finished, Shep goes (races to, perhaps, depending on how long the activities took) back to the "Guardian Console" and can use the device.
* Choice:
- either use the pulse to shut down the Relay network and the Reapers with raw power (and thus disabling Geth and EDI in the process). With power going down, the reapers use the relays to escape back to darkspace. Relays shut down one after the other as the fleeing reapers use the last of their power to keep themselves running and go away. For Now.
- Or, sacrifice most of humanity to draw power from Sun/Earth to boost the operating power of the device and allow greater finess of the system. Resulting pulse shuts down, immediately, every reaper across the galaxy. But as the power was more refined, EDI and the Geth can be saved. Relays shut down as the pulse works throught them, but it is hinted that they only need to be restarted for them to work again. With sufficient unified effort by the now saved galaxy, the relays could be up and running in a few years or somesuch.
* Earth is show desolate, with some population. Not quite unlike Tuchanka. Life goes on in the Galaxy and everywhere statues and memorials are raised to remember what sacrifice humans made for everyone else to continue living.
* Humans are not wiped out, colonies remain and even on earth there are still population, but it will take years and years for humans to rise up to the power they were.
* We see Normandy crew (not LI) standing on some large capital ship, perhaps with Hackett/Anderson, watching out into the deep space.
* We hear LI or Shep voice over "It would be so easy for one ship to just.. get lost in the stars."
* Cut to scene where Shep sits somewhere, watching the stars above. LI walks to Shep's side and puts a hand on his/her shoulder. Both turn to face downwards, looking at the tummy of whichever of them is female. (impying she's pregnant.)

That last paragon ending is really what I wanted/expected from the games. There is sooo much buildup to something like that, and then it all falls flat in the end. But, that's just my opinion. (although all the games have allowed MY opinion and MY choices, except the very end, which was a rail-road journey.) But, have at it, I just needed to get that out.

THIS BIOWARE!! Heck just lets us write our own freaking endings and you go screw up some other story

Agreed. the oony thing missing is gettingg theNormandy into the main battle clearing the way for the ground troops and kicking harbingers ass.

Shepard and the love interest sitting together revealing that the love interest is pregnant sounds awesome.

[XenoAlbedo]

One question... How could he get Tali pregnant?