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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#15326
Nyila

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Twikz wrote...

Nyila wrote...

Si-Shen wrote...

Why put all the work into my playthrough if I will just die anyway?


Yeah that's how I feel too.

The game is intense, no way around that, the atmosphere is dark and heavy, you can feel Shepard's exhaustion, and I knew the whole game that Shepard had high chances of dying. I just hoped there would also be a way out. After all, the entire game is about instilling hope in others, but Shepard has none? Why?! The goodbyes were heartbreaking, and they felt even more heartbreaking after I realized Shepard wasn't getting out of there alive. For a minute, when Anderson died, I hoped to see my squad show up or something.. And I don't just feel disappointed, I feel outright depressed! :crying:


Honestly I would have had no issue with Shepard dying as long as there was some actual closure involved.  However I gathered that Shepards survival was implied with the destroy ending regardless of EMS, you just get video confirmation with 4-5k+.  I guess there really isn't much of an explaination as to how Shepard doesn't end up dehydrating or bleeding out, but even as depressing as the endings are Bioware wouldn't write in his survival only to have him suffer such a pitiful death. 
I fail to see how Shepard could delude himself into thinking he could control the reapers (this seems more like a renegade choice to me), or how he could force the merging of all synthetics and organics in the galaxy.  Thus in my mind the only logical choice is the destroy ending, which shepard survives.  If all that is bothering you about the game is Shepards death just get your EMS up before you beat it again, but I think there are more troubling issues with the ending.  I'm actually surprised that the last couple minutes of a game I enjoyed so immensely could have such a negative effect on the entire experience.


Hey that Renegade/Paragon crap has been bothering me too, because, Anderson's the good-hearted guy and the Illusive Man is the jerk, so why is Anderson in the red zone and TIM in the blue zone? Another WTF moment for me.. Anyway..

About the EMS, I was gonna do that, until I saw on Youtube what kind of cutsceene you get when Shepard lives.. Pointless to me..

I wasn't bothered at the possibility of Shepard dying, my Paragon would have sacrificed her life without a second thought, I was just hoping for more options, is all..

Modifié par Nyila, 10 mars 2012 - 02:32 .


#15327
Guest_zoider16_*

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http://social.biowar...5/index/9728830 this is another thread that gives some information from the twitter feed. It sounds like they are waiting to see what the Europeans think about all this first and are avoiding spoilers. Thought everyone here should see this, hopefully we can stop making multiple threads and really start to collaborate so Bioware can see this is a united front.

#15328
CDHarrisUSF

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People have already stated my opinions at length, but I'll throw another voice into the mix.


I played ME1 and ME2 each several times through. I didn't just do the quickest critical path on the subsequent runs either. I skipped nothing. I took each one very seriously and even set up some guiding rules that each Shepard follows when making decisions.


The first one is always the closest to my own reaction to the decisions. This Shepard is mostly good but more pragmatic and still has his faults... sometimes has trouble forgiving and/or controlling his temper. He didn't save the Council, because it was too risky. He would tell Joker to hang up on them when they weren't heeding his warnings. He punched Admiral Gerrel for not listening to him and almost getting him killed. He shot Udina with no hesitation. He romanced Liara and stayed faithful to the end (one of the made-up rules being that he would go to her after coming back from every mission). If I considered any of my Shepards "canon" it would be this one. His story is the one I'm most attached to.


The second Shepard has a strong moral code he never deviates from. He always does what is right no matter how hard it makes things for him. He tries to save everyone whenever possible and never lets his temper get the better of him. The third is the "end justifies the means" type, is a bit power hungry, takes **** from no one, and holds grudges for a long time. Those two are more for seeing how differently things can play out.


I very carefully avoided all spoilers leading up to ME3. Like many other people, I felt that the game was incredible up until the last 15 minutes or so. The end made absolutely no sense whatsoever. We spend the whole game uniting the entire galaxy and building the MacGuffin to fight the Reapers. It looked like everything was coming together for an epic conclusion... then it takes a left turn to deus ex machina territory right before the end. God-kid shows up, gives us some lazy exposition full of gigantic plot holes, then they negate all the time we put into the game by essentially putting three buttons in front of us which lead to palette swaps of one short cutscene which explains nothing and no matter what you do, basically wipes out the technology from which the series got its name and makes it unique. I would have been fine with a bittersweet ending but, instead, I was just left staring at the screen like this.


The entire premise behind the Reapers that the god-kid tells us is flawed from the start. Why is it considered inevitable that synthetics will kill organics? Their entire existence is based on that one assumption, but we've been shown nothing to support it in the entire series. All the AI we've seen has only become violent in self-defense or when corrupted by the Reapers themselves (as if to try to prove their own point). On the contrary, the worst examples in the series come from organics. Quarians accidentally make Geth (their slaves) self-aware? Oops, try to "fix" it with genocide. Krogan expansion causes conflict? Almost commit genocide on Council races who wanted them to slow down, who then retaliate by almost committing genocide on the Krogans to stop them. Humans finally expand into space? First Contact War with Turians.


The Geth, as we find out in ME3, had the chance to wipe out the Quarians when they retreated. What did they do? They, by their own free will, let the Quarians live because the Geth were only fighting out of self-preservation, with no anger or grudges. The other main example of AI is EDI who, despite being made by evil people, turns out to be a valuable friend. The only other one I could think of off-hand was the rogue AI in ME1 which only tried to kill you because it knew it would be destroyed if anyone found it... again, self-preservation. Plus, if the Reapers hate synthetics so much that they're willing to go to such extreme measures to prevent them from taking over, why did they indoctrinate the synthetics to join their side of the fight?


Let's ignore that and assume the premise is sound and the Reapers have a valid reason. Let us also ignore the arrogant, abstract value judgment they make as to sentient organic machines having more innate value than sentient electronic machines. That still doesn't excuse their horrific actions. They decide to "save" organics by wiping out uncountable numbers of sentient beings over and over again. Not only do they kill them, but they do it in about as traumatic a fashion as possible and without warning or explanation. They make them into monsters and turn them against their own kind.


There are much better ways to go about their stated goal. I was already able to propose a better solution to their problem by the time god-kid's idiotic exposition was finished. The necessary technology is even presented to you in a sidequest from the same game. In one of the scanning fetch quests, you find a fossil in amber. When you bring it back to the person who wanted it, they send it to a cloning facility and within days they've already brought the animals back for use in the war effort. All these supposedly highly intelligent and advanced beings had to do was keep a simple DNA bank (like we already do with plant seeds) in case synthetics wiped out all organic life (a nearly impossible task given the size of the universe), at which point they could reintroduce life into the universe right from where it left off without all of this messy genocide.


Also, to have a device create a pulse of energy as strong as this Crucible supposedly did is physically impossible. Because the pulse is shown to be spherical rather than a directional beam, the energy required grows exponentially the further you want it to reach. Even some of the most powerful explosions we've ever witnessed (gamma-ray bursts from a massive star collapsing into a black hole) can still only be detected from this far because it turns out the pulses appear to be bidirectional rather than spherical... and even then they only manage a little pulse of electromagnetic radiation from this far away. Having a device that is supposedly able to fuse synthetic and organic life all across the galaxy (much less the universe) would require enough energy to violate all sorts of laws of physics which haven't been explained away in the lore. 


Come on, BioWare. I know you guys are better than this. I don't care if the ending is bittersweet as long as it is at least well done. The end of Half-Life 2: Episode 2 was a perfect example. It looks like everything is going to work out, then things take a bad turn quickly and it ends on a very dark note. I've never wanted to console an imaginary person as much as I did at that moment... yet I wouldn't change a thing about it. Sure, I felt bad at the end of Mass Effect 3, but for all the wrong reasons. Even though I would have preferred to have the possibility of a good ending if I put enough work in to make it happen, I would have accepted a well made sad ending. I should have been sad that Shepard wouldn't get to live out the rest of his days with Liara and their little blue babies. I should have been sad for all the people who had to die to stop the Reapers. I should have been relieved to finally break the cycle. There were a lot of emotions that I should have been feeling. Instead, I was too busy watching such a great series of games trip and fall flat on its face right at the finish line.


Unless they retcon the ending to something less patently ridiculous, I doubt I will ever play any of the Mass Effect games again since all of my actions have been made completely devoid of meaning in the end and everything I do will be reframed in that light. It's a shame. I was looking forward to finishing the stories of my other Shepards, too. If they fix it, I'm willing to act as if this ending never happened. I'll pretend it was all a stress-induced dream that Shepard had after shooting TIM and collapsing on the floor in front of the computer. Then, the person yelling at him over the radio finally wakes him up and he pushes the button to activate the real Crucible (which turns out to just disable the Reaper ships in the vicinity)... right?

kramerfan86 wrote...

You know what the worst part is? Had they just STOPPED it at the touching scene with Shepard and Anderson gazing out at their home, victorious, with your preparation level determining if they survived or died, followed by a small epilogue showing the destuction of the reapers and the rebuilding of society, it would have been AMAZING. Not only that, but if Shepard and Anderson die like that it would be a beautiful, touching, yet bittersweet end for the two.


See? Now, that would have worked for me. Just stop there and tack on an epilogue to tie up some loose ends by showing how your work made a difference and you would have an effective bittersweet but cathartic ending.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 10 mars 2012 - 02:42 .


#15329
Nyila

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zoider16 wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9728830 this is another thread that gives some information from the twitter feed. It sounds like they are waiting to see what the Europeans think about all this first and are avoiding spoilers. Thought everyone here should see this, hopefully we can stop making multiple threads and really start to collaborate so Bioware can see this is a united front.


I wish them luck, I'm pretty sure the Europeans will think the same thing, I'm one of them! :P

#15330
epjm

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kramerfan86 wrote...

You know what the worst part is? Had they just STOPPED it at the touching scene with Shepard and Anderson gazing out at their home, victorious, with your preparation level determining if they survived or died, followed by a small epilogue showing the destuction of the reapers and the rebuilding of society, it would have been AMAZING. Not only that, but if Shepard and Anderson die like that it would be a beautiful, touching, yet bittersweet end for the two.


I would've been fine with this.  I've already decided that if I can ever force myself to replay ME3 I'm just going to shut my xbox off at this point.

#15331
kramerfan86

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epjm wrote...

kramerfan86 wrote...

You know what the worst part is? Had they just STOPPED it at the touching scene with Shepard and Anderson gazing out at their home, victorious, with your preparation level determining if they survived or died, followed by a small epilogue showing the destuction of the reapers and the rebuilding of society, it would have been AMAZING. Not only that, but if Shepard and Anderson die like that it would be a beautiful, touching, yet bittersweet end for the two.


I would've been fine with this.  I've already decided that if I can ever force myself to replay ME3 I'm just going to shut my xbox off at this point.

Yup, had they just gone Sopranos mode and faded to black after that scene, still would be 10000000X more touching and amazing than the current endings.

#15332
Nyila

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kramerfan86 wrote...

epjm wrote...

kramerfan86 wrote...

You know what the worst part is? Had they just STOPPED it at the touching scene with Shepard and Anderson gazing out at their home, victorious, with your preparation level determining if they survived or died, followed by a small epilogue showing the destuction of the reapers and the rebuilding of society, it would have been AMAZING. Not only that, but if Shepard and Anderson die like that it would be a beautiful, touching, yet bittersweet end for the two.


I would've been fine with this.  I've already decided that if I can ever force myself to replay ME3 I'm just going to shut my xbox off at this point.

Yup, had they just gone Sopranos mode and faded to black after that scene, still would be 10000000X more touching and amazing than the current endings.


Yeah but they needed the blue/red choices..

#15333
Landline

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zoider16 wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9728830 this is another thread that gives some information from the twitter feed. It sounds like they are waiting to see what the Europeans think about all this first and are avoiding spoilers. Thought everyone here should see this, hopefully we can stop making multiple threads and really start to collaborate so Bioware can see this is a united front.


I haven't seen a thread move this fast since the Tali threads right after ME2 released.

And unlike those threads, this thread is completely on topic.

If they aren't getting the message now, they simply wont.

#15334
Nyila

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Landline wrote...

zoider16 wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/9728830 this is another thread that gives some information from the twitter feed. It sounds like they are waiting to see what the Europeans think about all this first and are avoiding spoilers. Thought everyone here should see this, hopefully we can stop making multiple threads and really start to collaborate so Bioware can see this is a united front.


I haven't seen a thread move this fast since the Tali threads right after ME2 released.

And unlike those threads, this thread is completely on topic.

If they aren't getting the message now, they simply wont.


Agreed!

#15335
Kloborgg711

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Nyila wrote...

Twikz wrote...

Nyila wrote...

Si-Shen wrote...

Why put all the work into my playthrough if I will just die anyway?


Yeah that's how I feel too.

The game is intense, no way around that, the atmosphere is dark and heavy, you can feel Shepard's exhaustion, and I knew the whole game that Shepard had high chances of dying. I just hoped there would also be a way out. After all, the entire game is about instilling hope in others, but Shepard has none? Why?! The goodbyes were heartbreaking, and they felt even more heartbreaking after I realized Shepard wasn't getting out of there alive. For a minute, when Anderson died, I hoped to see my squad show up or something.. And I don't just feel disappointed, I feel outright depressed! :crying:


Honestly I would have had no issue with Shepard dying as long as there was some actual closure involved.  However I gathered that Shepards survival was implied with the destroy ending regardless of EMS, you just get video confirmation with 4-5k+.  I guess there really isn't much of an explaination as to how Shepard doesn't end up dehydrating or bleeding out, but even as depressing as the endings are Bioware wouldn't write in his survival only to have him suffer such a pitiful death. 
I fail to see how Shepard could delude himself into thinking he could control the reapers (this seems more like a renegade choice to me), or how he could force the merging of all synthetics and organics in the galaxy.  Thus in my mind the only logical choice is the destroy ending, which shepard survives.  If all that is bothering you about the game is Shepards death just get your EMS up before you beat it again, but I think there are more troubling issues with the ending.  I'm actually surprised that the last couple minutes of a game I enjoyed so immensely could have such a negative effect on the entire experience.


Hey that Renegade/Paragon crap has been bothering me too, because, Anderson's the good-hearted guy and the Illusive Man is the jerk, so why is Anderson in the red zone and TIM in the blue zone? Another WTF moment for me.. Anyway..



I know, that confused the hell out of me. Aside from the fact that the three paths are NOT clearly marked (you get an awkward camera angle of each during the explanation), I couldn't believe that controlling would be the paragon one. You mean, doing what the Illusive Man, the most evil insane son of a **** in the game wants to do is the "good guy" option? But then, none of them are paragon or renegade. Taking ultimate power and judgement into your hands does not seem like a good thing to do. Utterly destroying all hope for any synthetic life in the galaxy, after all you accomplish in the game, also doesn't seem like a good thing to do. Forcing everyone you ever knew to turn into "optimal" hybrids beyond their own will also seems pretty despicable, and it seem eerily and uncomfortably similar to the Reaper goal. That's the thing. Three endings is bad enough from the perspective of quantity, it's even worse when all of the endings are unsatisfying and bad. Not to mention all of them involve destroying the relays, which doesn't just doom civilization, but dooms all the Quarians and Turians and likely Krogans (assuming they're all male) fighting in the Sol battle. It's just a bitter conclusion, I can't even feel an ounce of "victory" in it.

#15336
ascended1

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I'm not sure how I would feel about pay DLC to fix the endings. I despise the endings, but I would be mad as hell if they charge for the endings, meaning they left them out just to charge you for them later. Profiteering at its finest. The only solution I see that would appease me is free DLC with the endings.

I love(d) the Mass Effect series all the way up until the ending of ME3, but to (theoretically) charge for endings that should have been included wouldn't sit right with me. What's next? Leaving out the beginning of the game so they can charge for it? But, that's a rant for another day that may, or may not come.

#15337
Foulpancake

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I hope and i pray that the twitter feed basically means "We can't reveal that we have a DLC with more endings because the europeans have not gotten a chance to finish it, so we won't elicit the same emotions from them if they already know the endings are fake" or something.

Please Bioware fix this

Please

#15338
Kitten Tactics

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It's telling.  I took seven days off of work for this.  Seven days to experience the end of my 90 hour journey and then start it all again from the beginning and go for a ride.  But instead, I've spent the last two completely glued to my monitor, lurking here, trying to make sense of what happened.  I haven't touched my console since the game dropped me back in before the Cerberus Base (which is a complete slap in the face, by the way.  Who wants to jump right back in to that after what they just witnessed?  Especially knowing that nothing they do will make a lick of difference.).  

Once again, it's not just that I was disappointed in the ending.  It's that I regret ever investing in to this series in the first place.  Would I do it all again?  Up until Hackett says the Crucible isn't firing, absolutely.  But knowing what I know, absolutely not.

I simply can not understand how a group of people can just nail it for over 5 years, get so close, and then drop the ball in the last 0.01% of the experience.

Modifié par Kitten Tactics, 10 mars 2012 - 02:41 .


#15339
TheDeadLegend

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I would pay a lot for a happy ending but I dont think that will happen :(

#15340
refuse81

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It's like when you beat Final Fantasy IX and get to the final boss and it's completely out of context with the game and recites Yoda from Star Wars. Only this time it's a franchise I've cared about for 4+ years. In the end I'd rather just let the reapers win, hell, that would at least give organic life in the galaxy a chance at a another cycle. Intead I ruin the galaxy either by killing myself and all mass effect relays, by destroying all machines in the galaxy including the relays, or turning all life in the galaxy into organic/synthetic hybrids. Sickening. All of my choices in the game didn't matter in the end. Killing a franchise like this doesn't offer closure.

#15341
Landline

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Foulpancake wrote...

I hope and i pray that the twitter feed basically means "We can't reveal that we have a DLC with more endings because the europeans have not gotten a chance to finish it, so we won't elicit the same emotions from them if they already know the endings are fake" or something.

Please Bioware fix this

Please


I want to know what emotion the ending was suppose to bring.

I'm pretty sure an ending where you save the galaxy from a race of galaxy destroyers should invoke feelings of depression.

#15342
kramerfan86

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Nyila wrote...

kramerfan86 wrote...

epjm wrote...

kramerfan86 wrote...

You know what the worst part is? Had they just STOPPED it at the touching scene with Shepard and Anderson gazing out at their home, victorious, with your preparation level determining if they survived or died, followed by a small epilogue showing the destuction of the reapers and the rebuilding of society, it would have been AMAZING. Not only that, but if Shepard and Anderson die like that it would be a beautiful, touching, yet bittersweet end for the two.


I would've been fine with this.  I've already decided that if I can ever force myself to replay ME3 I'm just going to shut my xbox off at this point.

Yup, had they just gone Sopranos mode and faded to black after that scene, still would be 10000000X more touching and amazing than the current endings.


Yeah but they needed the blue/red choices..

Dont get me wrong, fade to black would hardly be ideal, ideal would be that scene followed by a showing of the end results of your efforts, with the renegade and paragon paths having different endings fitting to how you played.  Im just saying that scene would be infinitely better than what we got.

#15343
Foulpancake

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ascended1 wrote...

I'm not sure how I would feel about pay DLC to fix the endings. I despise the endings, but I would be mad as hell if they charge for the endings, meaning they left them out just to charge you for them later. Profiteering at its finest. The only solution I see that would appease me is free DLC with the endings.

I love(d) the Mass Effect series all the way up until the ending of ME3, but to (theoretically) charge for endings that should have been included wouldn't sit right with me. What's next? Leaving out the beginning of the game so they can charge for it? But, that's a rant for another day that may, or may not come.


Feh, i have up until 2 days ago supported Bioware more than any company ever. I buy all their collectors editions, jumped on ToR early release, i've been a loyal follower and fan since the original Baldurs Gate. I've loved everything they have ever done and always asked for more.

So yes, i personally would be willing to pay the price of the whole collectors edition OVER AGAIN, just to give me an alternate ending where my Shep can live happily ever after with Liara. Why? Because i would hate for my love of this company to turn to ashes because of 5 minutes of atrocious cinematics. If they listen to their customers and give us what we so desperately want, i would be happy to continue to support them as i always have in the past.

#15344
Foulpancake

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Landline wrote...

Foulpancake wrote...

I hope and i pray that the twitter feed basically means "We can't reveal that we have a DLC with more endings because the europeans have not gotten a chance to finish it, so we won't elicit the same emotions from them if they already know the endings are fake" or something.

Please Bioware fix this

Please


I want to know what emotion the ending was suppose to bring.

I'm pretty sure an ending where you save the galaxy from a race of galaxy destroyers should invoke feelings of depression.


Honestly Landline i'm hoping they wanted us to feel rage and emptiness over these horrid endings for some marketting scheme, or all a big "HA HA" (April 1st is around the corner...)

I hope they wanted us good and pissed for some unknown reason, god knows they succeeded

At this point i hope anything that gets me a good ending...

#15345
Levvi

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Nyila wrote...

Schirach wrote...

slipliker wrote...

Btw, a little offtop here.
Is it just me or this kid appearing in the game multiple times is really annoying and makes you want to punch him in his face? o_o


I firmly believe Shepard felt guilty about not saving that child, and whatever manifested itself on the crucible used the image of what Shepard felt most guilt for to present itself.



I agree.

I would have preferred it if it manifested in the form of someone I actually knew that died, say Ashley, Mordin, Thane, or Legion. But maybe that's just me xD

#15346
Puppet Doctor

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Poor Commander Shepard will never have a child and family like he/she always wanted.

When the credits rolled for me I thought to myself "there must be something more, something that explains what happened to my squadmates and Shepard" but instead I get a little scene from the future. It is nice to know that Shpeard was remembered and I was hoping Shepard would die a hero but there should have been more closure. I was hoping to get that funeral that Diane Allers spoke about near the end of the game.

I think this may be part of EA's Master Plan to make us all hate the ending so much we want to buy DLC to get a better ending, and sadly I would probably buy it if this is true.

Modifié par Puppet Doctor, 10 mars 2012 - 02:49 .


#15347
Mr_Glasses

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Meanwhile at Bioware office

#15348
Volion

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I really enjoyed the game, until I got to the final chapter and ran all the endings.

The Reapers are not gone people, they just go by another name, EA.... rest in peace BioWare.

#15349
Heldenbrand

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I think the death of Kaiden or Ashley would have haunted Shepard more; the child was killed as a result of a war that was out of his control. In the case of the above two crew members, he had to make a deliberate choice to leave one to die. That is the sort of guilt that haunts someone far longer than watching someone die in the field of battle.

And in my opinion, the death of the boy was not nearly as emotionally harsh as the final moments with Mordin. That was absolutely soul crushing.

#15350
LPPrince

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Yeah, how are they gonna explain that no matter what ending you choose, the turians and quarians in the Sol system are gonna die out?

What about Joker? To save Shepard you have to sacrifice EDI.

The jungle planet. The...God, it makes no sense.

Patch plox.