101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Kloborgg711]

Landline wrote...

Beldamon wrote...

I predict their reaction will be very much like their reaction to Dragon Age 2 -- mostly ignore it and soft-pedal their response with things like acknowledgement that maybe the journal wasn't perfect ( a common complaint) or the spacebar dong so many of things 'may' have been a mistake.

They do this and Bioware will be completely dead to me, I will never buy anything of theirs again.

I'd have to agree, and not out of an immature spite. It wouldn't be because I don't want to give them the chance that a future series might be great, but I don't trust them with finishing their series anymore. I never want to experience another Mass Effect. I can't say that I wouldn't do it all again, because for 4 straight years I would anyone and everyone it was the best thing to happen to gaming. But I've never had any video game make me feel this bad. I've had disappointments where I regret spending $60, but I think we all agree this goes far beyond the money.

[lmxar]

Heldenbrand wrote...

And in my opinion, the death of the boy was not nearly as emotionally harsh as the final moments with Mordin. That was absolutely soul crushing.

This.  I was eating my dinner (breakfast? Can't remember what time it was when I got there) during that mission.  Mordin dies, I instantly lose my appetite.

[Landline]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Honestly, I think the opposite. The people who are finishing the game across the pond are having the same reactions as those people here. Boiware is concerned. EA is damn sure concerned because the loss of a huge portion of the fanbase is a serious thing.

if the opinions keep coming, if the emotions of the fans continue, and we are sane about our grievances I would say it's nearly a guarantee that DLC will come that relates directly to the ending in the form of additions as well as expounding on previous ones.

Even their most hardcore fans are angy. I've seen something like two people trying to defend the endings.

Loosing your hardcore fans is a very big problem for any company.

[calabazada]

i would just like to point out that shepard already died in the collector attack, so to die again/ not have a happy ending with garrus buying drinks on a saved earth/future with LI is really unacceptable. She shouldn't have to die twice for this cause. That's asking a little much. There should be at least 1 disney-esque ending for those of us who want to escape the sucky-ness of real life.

[ynh]

zoider16 wrote...

I am sure most people are not going to like what I am about to say but I do want to put it out there. After reading over the twitter feed where they acknowledge the uproar over this and say lets wait to see what the Europeans have to say I can see their point. If Bioware were to come out right now and say they are working on a new ending DLC that you have to buy just as the people in Europe are getting it what will that say? Europeans who know nothing about this ending problem may get up in arms with the thinking that this is another day one DLC disaster.

While I would steal a Turian's left nut to get my hands on some new endings I can still see why Bioware would be apprehensive to make an official ruling on this. Anything official they say they have to back up and will spread like wild fire across the internet and will reach Europe which will probably rage out about it. I am just trying to see the other side of this issue so hopefully people won't be too angry at this post.

To the contrary, I like what you are saying. You are 100% correct. I think they already have plans in motion to possibly rectify the problem. I am damn sure that there were people at Bioware who didn't think the endings were a good idea, but remember that they had a bunch of writers leave. I think they put the game out there knowing that they were going to get dinged on the endings, but I don't think they expected such a major reaction like this one. Hence, they won't have an official reaction until next week since they need to consider their options.

[GBGriffin]

Golferguy758 wrote...

if the opinions keep coming, if the emotions of the fans continue, and we are sane about our grievances I would say it's nearly a guarantee that DLC will come that relates directly to the ending in the form of additions as well as expounding on previous ones.

I cannot, cannot stress this enough.

Right now, I think they're lumping the people who hate the ending into the same group of people who hate the homoxexual relationships or the obnoxious trolls who register on Metacritic for the sole purpose of rating the game a 0. People who are clearly emotional over this (and, imo, have every right to be) need to pull back and make an argument, not an outburst.

If you're going to criticize it, put some thought into it. Phrase it well. Even if they don't read every individual post, it'll make it harder to ignore and classify as just generalized hate speech. 

[Zen_Mojo]

I would seriously wait a month before even starting on new DLC for Mass Effect 3. Chances are they will have plenty of opportunity, and the last thing they need is to ****** off people who haven't even gotten the game yet with another "must have" DLC.

[Landline]

ynh wrote...

To the contrary, I like what you are saying. You are 100% correct. I think they already have plans in motion to possibly rectify the problem. I am damn sure that there were people at Bioware who didn't think the endings were a good idea, but remember that they had a bunch of writers leave. I think they put the game out there knowing that they were going to get dinged on the endings, but I don't think they expected such a major reaction like this one. Hence, they won't have an official reaction until next week since they need to consider their options.

I have a feeling that the writers that left could see the ****storm that was brewing from that ending and wanted to get out of the blast range.

[Rob8228]

There are good sad endings, and good happy endings. This is what this game should of had. Instead it had sad bad endings. Wait, why did I pluralize that? It had a bad ending, which resulted in different colors. 

I never posted here, although I have loved the ME universe from day one and invested so much time into it like many of you. I have viewed the forums over the years, but never posted, and this game compelled me to finally post, in the slim hope that maybe if there can be a DLC that somewhat fixes this. 

ME3 from the beginning was excellent, in every aspect, I loved it. I played through from the midnight release, and finally completed it a few hours ago. Even last night, I was going into the final assault, and I saved the game so I can cherish the ending of my favorite trilogy, my own character that I shaped, and the crew I grew so close with. After five years, closure was coming, and I could play the entire trilogy. I lack any desire to do so now. Like most have said, the last fifteen minutes or so don't just damage the integrity of the game, it ruins the trilogy.

As soon as the ghost-child catalyst appeared, the series was ruined, I hadn't known that yet though. He starts by "explaining" the cycle, and why it exists. The explanation is that synthetics will eventually turn on organics and destroy them, so to prevent that from happening, they harvest and "preserve" organic life. Okay before I say how awful that logic is I want to point out two things that the reapers said to Shepard:

•  My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.

I remember that from Sovereign.

• It is far beyond your understanding

Again, that is a paraphrase from ME3 when you kill the Reaper on Rannoch after you ask the same question posed to Sovereign.

I ask, how is this "beyond understanding"? You see synthetics will kill you, so we will prevent that by killing you. Since that's covered, how insane is that logic? That's like walking into a bank robbery, shooting the teller and telling the cops, "He was going to shoot her in the face, but I prevented that by shooting her in the face". 

Something I semi-forgot was if the ghost-boy catalyst said he created the reapers. I know he said he controls them. In any case if he did say he created them, why did Sovereign say the following:

• We have no beginning. We have no end.

If he created them, then yes, you do have a beginning. 

My other gripe with this little ghost runt, his telling us that synthetics and organics could never live in peace. Really? Didn't I just forge an alliance of the Quarians and Geth who have been fighting the past hundred years? Hell, scratch that, didn't I just forge an alliance of every species every to unite and take down the reapers? What a slap in the face that explanation is. 

There have been many themes in Mass Effect, many of us will detect different ones, and I believe that was part of the beauty of the game. The most common theme I saw was hope. In every Mass Effect, no matter what, whether you odds were with you, against you, or pratically non-existent, Shepard went in with confidence, and had a team ready to fight that would succeed. He grabbed any strand of hope he could, and he always transferred that to the rest of the squad. That is what Mass Effect is all about. 

In Mass Effect 3, he finally fails, but his squad has his back, and they find where Cerberus is, the vigor that Shepard has comes back. You go into the final missions, the home strech so to speak, have emotional conversations with with your squad and head into battle where we meet our ghost friend. Shepard, with his demeanor, barely talks back to him, he sacrafices who he is. You don't really get choice. What if I refuse? Why can't I point out that I united everybody including synthetics and organics to make him reconsider? It makes no sense, and it's garbage. Shepard who fights for everything, what he/she believes in at all costs, all of a sudden gives up fight. 

After all Shepard has been through, essentially you, he deserves a happy ending. Not Disney like, we all know there would be sacrafices. However, Joker randomly retreats, my squad teleported onto the normandy somehow, and they ended up in a jungle without possibility of a galactic civilization. There is nothing bittersweet about it, just bitter. Why weren't they above Earth? The events after your "choice" were completely ludicrous, and negated all the choices I made from the first Mass Effect. 

I'm sorry I ranted so long, I invested so much into this game, as have many of you. It's genuinely upsetting that it ended this way. I could understand sad endings. I expected them. However, I also expected happy ones, both should have existed, and both should have been written well. This was a game of choice, after all. At least I thought it was.

Modifié par Rob8228, 10 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[Landline]

Zen_Mojo wrote...

I would seriously wait a month before even starting on new DLC for Mass Effect 3. Chances are they will have plenty of opportunity, and the last thing they need is to ****** off people who haven't even gotten the game yet with another "must have" DLC.

What have they got to loose? They've already pissed of the people who finished the game.

[Kloborgg711]

Eumerin wrote...

Beldamon wrote...
They wanted to generate a strong emotional reaction, and as that is what they got, they will consider the game they produced a success, no matter what the long term consequences may be.

The problem is that the ending doesn't actually provide a strong emotional reaction.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  The ending itself produces very little in the way of an emotional reaction.

It's the realization that the ending produces so little emotion that is causing the anger on the part of the playerbase.  The distinction is a subtle one, but it's important.

You're right. There were lots of scenes in ME3 where I felt angry, betrayed, sad, or simply a combination of all of those. These emotional moments are what make Mass Effect. Towards the final battle, I literally had Goosebumps. I could tear myself from the computer. Even my heartbeat felt heavier. Those are the kinds of emotions we want. Seeing Mordin and Legion die almost got me on the verge of tears (and I don't cry), because the deaths were handled beautifully and had purpose. The anger, frustration, shock, confusion, and helplessness I felt at the end was not a translation of Shepard's feelings onto myself.. they were my very real feelings at the prospect that THIS was it. After all these years, all these hours of game time, all of these incredible moments, this was how it was going to end. No matter how you put it, that feeling is not a good thing.

[Golferguy758]

I've said it before. This situation, this WHOLE situation is a Cold War stalemate. You have Bioware on one side and the majority of fans on the otherside. Bioware/EA have to be VERY careful in how they proceed or there will be Armageddon. Look how close it is already.

Any statement they make will be ruthlessly scrutinized. They have a very very delicate situation on their hands and I'm sure there have already been many phonecalls trying to figure out what to do to temper the situation.

[morph4037]

TaylorC183 wrote...

this bioware employee is saying that a comment will be coming from bioware, they are just waiting for more people to get to the endings before they release a statement. Reading her tweets to people kind of gave me hope.

what do yall think??

https://twitter.com/#!/JessicaMerizan

The fact she said "naw I want to wait until more people have played. Plus I haven't even opened my retail copy yet. *I* need to play again too :)" in one of her tweets speaks volumes. Imo it translates to "don't hold your breath".

[Bachi1230]

lmxar wrote...

Heldenbrand wrote...

And in my opinion, the death of the boy was not nearly as emotionally harsh as the final moments with Mordin. That was absolutely soul crushing.

This.  I was eating my dinner (breakfast? Can't remember what time it was when I got there) during that mission.  Mordin dies, I instantly lose my appetite.

I feel like 2 teams were working on Mass Effect.  One team was making a story for the mass market COD crowd however you want to phrase it.  The other team was making a story for those who've played since the start, came in at ME2 fell in love with the story/characters and invested heart and soul into the series.  That's how I see it because when I interact with the characters I met throughout the series and even new squadmates it's done right but when I get back to the story itself/having my custome shepard defined for me out of my control/the endings making everything I did null and void.

I like to think if they focused on appealing to the fans intead of the mass market the endings would've been better, but I also feel they may have come to the same endings and it makes me feel sad.  Who thought these endings were acceptable?

[Almostfaceman]

Landline wrote...

Golferguy758 wrote...

Honestly, I think the opposite. The people who are finishing the game across the pond are having the same reactions as those people here. Boiware is concerned. EA is damn sure concerned because the loss of a huge portion of the fanbase is a serious thing.

if the opinions keep coming, if the emotions of the fans continue, and we are sane about our grievances I would say it's nearly a guarantee that DLC will come that relates directly to the ending in the form of additions as well as expounding on previous ones.

Even their most hardcore fans are angy. I've seen something like two people trying to defend the endings.

Loosing your hardcore fans is a very big problem for any company.

You could have classified me I guess as a "hardcore" fan, certainly.

[Eumerin]

Landline wrote...
I have a feeling that the writers that left could see the ****storm that was brewing from that ending and wanted to get out of the blast range.

Maybe, maybe not.  The Normandy stuff at the end seems so out of place that I'm almost convinced that there was a massive last minute change to the game's climax, and for some reason the Normandy stuff didn't get fixed.

[X-Frame]

Joining this thread because I share everyone's pain. I think this thread can easily make it to 1000 pages before the end of the month.

[novaseeker]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...
Mass Effect rips Deus Ex's endings but puts no philosphy behind them, at least the themes and philosophy that you are presented with throughout teh Mass Effect universe. Mass Effect and especially ME3 is ALL about choice and sacrifice, ME3 hammers this home repeatedly as you have to make tough calls in order to savce the universe. Javik (the Prothean) states how "we humans stll think we can win this war with our honor intact", further emphasizing that we have to make horrible choices in order to serve the greater good. The Illusive Man is a total embodiment of this theme, and how we may have to lose our humanity to save it.

Yet the endings do not represent any of these themes, the endings are all about Singularity, Synthetic AI life, transhumanism, etc. Topics that are barely touched on in ME nor shown as themes throughout the game. And all the choices are essentially the same, there is no real sacrifice being made, no matter what the Relays are destroyed. It's like as if all the endings in Deus Ex were the Dark Age ending, thus making all the other choices irrlevant. Again I cannot stress this enough the endings in ME3 did not line up with the philosophy and themes presented throughout the series as opposed to Deus Ex.

I strongly agree with this.

I actually think that the themes at the end of the game are very interesting.  However, they were not themes that were in any way adequately developed during the course of the series.  Hinted at?  Yes.  The mainstay of one of the subplots?  Yes.  But the main theme of Mass Effect?  Not really.  At least not until the end.

Sure, one can say:  "Of course the main theme was always synthetic vs. organic, that's the whole deal of the Reapers vs. organic life that runs through the game", but the point is that this conflict is never really presented in the Singularity/transhumanism vein, but rather in the more "cliched" (if you want to call it that) "heroes against the bad guy monsters, but where you have tough decisions to make that are outcome-impactful".  

Again, the issue isn't the themes themselves, but the fact that these weren't well developed before the ending -- at least not nearly well enough to constitute 100% of the "meat" of the ending to the trilogy.

[The_Canadian_Dragon]

MedhiaNox wrote...

What I wonder is... why did it have to be a trilogy?

Doesn't anyone see the money making gold producing ME 1 - 40 would be?

Sure, Shepard would get old... but you know what? Let Shepard have a kid - you play the kid. You play a young member of Shepard old crew... you play someone inspired by Shepard... or just, someone new in a "Post Shepard" mass effect.

I simply cannot understand why interactive video games that inspire such fanatical devotion... would be given a trilogy treatment. There are already people who want, and would pay for, a 4. (Not to mention an amendment to the ending of 3)

I can attest to that. I would gladly pay for both, or at least the good ending if they didn't carry on for a fourth Shepard-driven Mass Effect. I'd be a little hesitant though about paying in advance and for the extra for the collector's edition, but in the end I'd probably just do it again. Hopefully with better results next time.

[tausra]

We'll see, either changes are made and mistakes admitted or we will really know just what BioWare is made of. We'll also see if the company has any scruples, based on how they price this "do-over", anything more than free is a condemnation of the entire company.

[Bachi1230]

Rob8228 wrote...

There are good sad endings, and good happy endings. This is what this game should of had. Instead it had sad bad endings. Wait, why did I pluralize that? It had a bad ending, which resulted in different colors. 

I never posted here, although I have loved the ME universe from day one and invested so much time into it like many of you. I have viewed the forums over the years, but never posted, and this game compelled me to finally post, in the slim hope that maybe if there can be a DLC that somewhat fixes this. 

ME3 from the beginning was excellent, in every aspect, I loved it. I played through from the midnight release, and finally completed it a few hours ago. Even last night, I was going into the final assault, and I saved the game so I can cherish the ending of my favorite trilogy, my own character that I shaped, and the crew I grew so close with. After five years, closure was coming, and I could play the entire trilogy. I lack any desire to do so now. Like most have said, the last fifteen minutes or so don't just damage the integrity of the game, it ruins the trilogy.

As soon as the ghost-child catalyst appeared, the series was ruined, I hadn't known that yet though. He starts by "explaining" the cycle, and why it exists. The explanation is that synthetics will eventually turn on organics and destroy them, so to prevent that from happening, they harvest and "preserve" organic life. Okay before I say how awful that logic is I want to point out two things that the reapers said to Shepard:

•  My kind transcends your very understanding. We are each a nation - independent, free of all weakness. You cannot grasp the nature of our existence.

I remember that from Sovereign.

• It is far beyond your understanding

Again, that is a paraphrase from ME3 when you kill the Reaper on Rannoch after you ask the same question posed to Sovereign.

I ask, how is this "beyond understanding"? You see synthetics will kill you, so we will prevent that by killing you. Since that's covered, how insane is that logic? That's like walking into a bank robbery, shooting the teller and telling the cops, "He was going to shoot her in the face, but I prevented that by shooting her in the face". 

Something I semi-forgot was if the ghost-boy catalyst said he created the reapers. I know he said he controls them. In any case if he did say he created them, why did Sovereign say the following:

• We have no beginning. We have no end.

If he created them, then yes, you do have a beginning. 

My other gripe with this little ghost runt, his telling us that synthetics and organics could never live in peace. Really? Didn't I just forge an alliance of the Quarians and Geth who have been fighting the past hundred years? Hell, scratch that, didn't I just forge an alliance of every species every to unite and take down the reapers? What a slap in the face that explanation is. 

There have been many themes in Mass Effect, many of us will detect different ones, and I believe that was part of the beauty of the game. The most common theme I saw was hope. In every Mass Effect, no matter what, whether you odds were with you, against you, or pratically non-existent, Shepard went in with confidence, and had a team ready to fight that would succeed. He grabbed any strand of hope he could, and he always transferred that to the rest of the squad. That is what Mass Effect is all about. 

In Mass Effect 3, he finally fails, but his squad has his back, and they find where Cerberus is, the vigor that Shepard has comes back. You go into the final missions, the home strech so to speak, have emotional conversations with with your squad and head into battle where we meet our ghost friend. Shepard, with his demeanor, barely taalks back to him, he sacrafices who he it. You don't really get choice. What if I refuse? Why can't I point out that I united everybody including synthetics and organics to make him reconsider? It makes no sense, and it's garbage. Shepard who fights for everything, what he/she believes in at all costs, all of a sudden gives up fight. 

After all Shepard has been through, essentially you, he deserves a happy ending. Not Disney like, we all know there would be sacrafices. However joker randomly retreats, my squad teleported onto the normandy somehow, and they ended up in a jungle without possibility of a galactic civilization. There is nothing bittersweet about it, just bitter. Why weren't they above Earth? The events after your "choice" were completely ludicrous, and negated all the coices I made from the first Mass Effect. 

I'm sorry I ranted so long, I invested so much into this game, as have many of you. It's genuinely upsetting that it ended this way. I could understand sad endings. I expected them. However, I also expected happy ones, both should have existed. This was a game of choice, after all. At least I thought it was.

no you are right sad endings aren't what would upset someone.  You nail it on the head.  An example of a game doing it right and a Bioware game at that.  Dragon Age: Origins.  It has a super sad ending with you dieing with a funeral and everything, as well as a disney ending that hints to trouble in the future with Morrigan.  and endings in the middle.  That is what Mass Effect 3 should have had for endings a range not just the same ending with different colors.<_<

[Eumerin]

OG meatpatty wrote...

Then I fight that bloody last battle.

(Which, by the way, with an Infiltrator at 56 on NORMAL, should perhaps not take me 13 times to win...)

When the two banshees...  and help...  showed up in that battle, I thought I was going to be in serious trouble.  And then I ran back into the building to get ammo, and stumbled across the Hydra(?) rocket launcher...

Heh heh...

It was only a single-shot weapon, but that single-shot took out one of the banshees for me, making the subsequent fight MUCH easier...

[TheFinisher]

This is my first post ever on this forum, and with good reason. I've been content to simply sit at my PC and enjoy this series until now. I'm not a Bioware fan as a rule. Mass Effect to me is their magnum opus. It is the series into which they put their best efforts. It is laughable to compare any of their other games to this series. They simply aren't remarkable for the most part.

But with Mass Effect, they accomplished something special, at least in my opinion. I've shed manly tears over the course of playing this series more than I have during any other. To me, this game's endings were all absolutely unacceptable. The outcomes are one thing, but there are so many problems it creates, so many plot holes.

A deus ex machina device to end the game. The huge Turian and Quarian fleets effectively stranded in a system where there isn't even food that they can eat. the crews of those ships are going to starve. There's not enough resources to sustain everyone else either way.

The reapers go from having a goal incomprehensible to organics to being basically a very early example of synthetics rebelling against their makers. Is this because it was rushed? Maybe, and perhaps Sovereign only says what it does because it's arrogant, but good storytellers have an end in mind long before they get to it in the writing process. The end of this game simply feels like it doesn't fit because the 99% of it leading to the final moments seems so obviously complete.

This feels intentional, and not intentional in the sense that it's what they wanted to do. It feels intentional in the sense that I feel I was deliberately targeted with a monstrous FU bomb. I don't know what else to say.

[Drkerthnblck]

OG meatpatty wrote...

Then I fight that bloody last battle.

(Which, by the way, with an Infiltrator at 56 on NORMAL, should perhaps not take me 13 times to win...)

Ah hah I feel your pain, that last battle was akward. I figured I should probably just kill everything in the vacinity but after multiple deaths and actually nearly running out of supplies on one attempt I figured out you just need to walk over and shoot the missle a third time...

Also did anyone else get to select the paragon / renegade option for the forth dialog with the illusive man at the end? I thought I had my reputation bar maxed out long ago (it hadn't moved for a loooong time) but the two options were greyed out for me... makes no sense at all..