101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Lurchibald]

deathscythe517 wrote...

gothicslo wrote...

Let those ending stay, but make a happy ending for shepard and hes love interes whom players chooses tali or ashly or liara and so on....

Some of those don't work considering, you know, some of the LI's die during the game. Miranda specifically.

She does? Pretty sure she didn't in mine...

[ViperAlvein]

nilcox wrote...

My prediction for bioware response : Payed dlc that expands upon the story after the events in ME3, Im 100% sure they wont retcon the ending because at the end of the day its the ending they wanted and I havent ever seen ANYONE or ANYTHING ever go in to a finished product and retcon an ending, it dosent happen in movies, books and it will never happen in games. All we can hope for a DLC that ties it all together and makes it seem less stupid.

Like to bring your attention to fallout 3 broken steel.

[Almostfaceman]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Wouldn't that really undermine the Reapers if all it took to defeat them was enough firepower?  I mean, they are the beings that have harvested all intelligent life every 50,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years...that would be quite lame.

Not really, it's implied in ME1 that a big reason the Reapers are so successful is that they set up a giant mouse trap and snag civilizations in it, so if we avoid the mouse trap, that's a step towards being able to put the beat down on 'em.

Then you have this massive buildup of military power in an alliance in ME3. Bioware is clearly sending a signal that it's very important to work together militarily so we can beat the Reapers. All throughout the game, you are constantly told how big a deal it is to bring all these races together. Even the Prothean admits that when they were hit, the weaker races ran and scattered and they weren't able to keep their empire cohesive.

So it's not lame, it's "We did it! We worked together to beat the Reapers!"

The Crucible/Catalyst should have just stayed a weapon. Instead it turned into a genie with three lame wishes.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 10 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[MordiMoro]

In Italy we are sending mail to all games magazines that have reviewed Mass Effect 3.
We ask why all say "the epic conclusion of all the plots"... when it was not.

ps: the official strategy talks about the many end...more than 3... why?

[Biotic Sage]

nilcox wrote...

My prediction for bioware response : Payed dlc that expands upon the story after the events in ME3, Im 100% sure they wont retcon the ending because at the end of the day its the ending they wanted and I havent ever seen ANYONE or ANYTHING ever go in to a finished product and retcon an ending, it dosent happen in movies, books and it will never happen in games. All we can hope for a DLC that ties it all together and makes it seem less stupid.

And thank god for that.

[Baronesa]

Biotic Sage wrote...

4. I'm not sure what you are even talking about here.  The Catalyst presents Shepard with 3 options.  All of them have their merits.  There is no way to tell if the Catalyst is telling to truth or if its premise of machines always destroying their creators is true, but Shepard has no other option at that point.  He has to make one of those choices or he has to make the 4th choice: simply refusing to make a choice and watch the Reapers finish off Earth.  He's not an idiot so obviously he's going to make one of the three choices that actually have a chance of stopping the Reapers, whether he believes the Catalyst or not.

My remarks aren't meant to inflame.  They are meant to show support for Bioware's decision.

I posted this somewhere else but I think it is pertinent to address point 4 here.

I know that some people completely buy the singularity explanation, and you know
what? that is perfectly ok for them. Current endings, for them then, make a lot
of sense.



Problem is, many of us do not buy it. I would risk the singularity because I do
see organics and synthetics and cyborgs able to cooperate and exists in
relative peace. Framing this as an absolute divide of "Organics=Good"
"Synthetics=Bad" is childish, which is pretty funny if you consider
it comes form the same people saying that we want a Disney ending rather than a
grim real world one.



I cannot help to feel the divide between organics and synthetics as a reference
to racism and bigotry in general, have felt that way since the first game, I
really tried all the options to save the money stealing AI, and I felt really
sad when it self destruct to try and kill me. That was fear, those were
emotions. As Tali answered to Legion "yes" Synthetics can as well
develop consciousness and be just as alive as we are.



I concede that my personal views influence the way I see this issue. The
problem of a soul on synthetics is not one that bothers me, cause from my
perspective there is no such thing as a soul or a deity, which makes me, I
think, more willing to accept that an AI can develop a similar level of self as
we have, or even greater.



There is also the recurring theme of Shepard going against the odds, carving
her (forgive me here, but to me Shepard is female and personally can't think
about her in any other way) path. She didn't accepted the offer that Saren gave
her, she didn't bowed down to Harbinger either... and now on the current
endings she simply bows down her head and accept the 3 options presented by a
genocidal entity? Really? I'm sorry but the Shepard I played would have shown
the middle finger and trust in her allies.



This lead me to the wonderful "We can't defeat the reapers with
conventional means" Sorry but the whole trilogy showed us that we can...
in fact it seems we have been more successful than previous cycles. Yes it will
take a lot of lives fighting conventionally, but the Reapers are not stupid
either, if they are losing they will leave/regroup etc.


Sovereign was defeated by the security forces of the citadel and Admiral
Hackett's fleet, at a great cost, yes. But remember that the Geth were also
present. By the ending, if you forged all possible alliances, you have the
Geth, the Quarian, Turians, Alliance... that is more than enough to destroy
many reapers. We saw how the Quarians destroyed one, right? It would be a
fierce battle, with MANY loses, but the united galaxy you created with your
actions is able to overcome the threat presented by the reapers with
conventional means, in the same way the incredibly outnumbered Rebel Alliance
managed to defeat the Empire.

EDIT: Thing is, if you don't buy the singularity explanation... the whole premise leading tot he 3 presented endings falls apart. The endings cannot be sustained if you reject the singularity premise.

Modifié par Baronesa, 10 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[Militarized]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

Wouldn't that really undermine the Reapers if all it took to defeat them was enough firepower?  I mean, they are the beings that have harvested all intelligent life every 50,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years...that would be quite lame.

No it doesn't undermine the Reapers, in my opinion. The ending is not conventional warfare, it's an all out balls the wall assault that is most likely unprecedented in galactic history. It is stated previously, NUMEROUS TIMES, that the Reapers main advantage is surprise. They come through the Citadel unexpected, the seat of power, and immediatly wipe everyone out in such a way the forming a resistance becomes almost impossible. They take control of the citadel also, which gives them control of the relays... cutting off worlds from each other. Javik said they fought a war of attrition, planet by planet with small forces. That fits in to the previous mentions of worlds being cut off from each other. More proof that what we did was unprecedented. 

That is how they win, the Reaper numbers are quite few and most of their fleet is made up of destroyers which you CAN kill, as is shown through out the game. This massive push, if done correctly, I feel would be enough to at least cause MAJOR damage to the Reapers. The fight with Sovereign did not go so well because A) they were surpsied and unprepared and Not every single fleet was there, just what.. 2 human fleets? The Citadel defense force? In ME1 they say they've moved a lot of scout fleets out(the model of conventional warfare as stated in the Codex) to do small engagements and warn if they come but there is no warning. 

So to me, the Reapers could have been defeated... they just didn't want to do that because they wanted to pretend to have a deep philosophy in their game that people have connected with before. A lot of humans do not connect with, what I felt was the more overarching feel of Mass Effect which was cossmicism... but you fight anyway! Nope, let's just copy the Matrix. *facepalm* 

Modifié par Militarized, 10 mars 2012 - 01:44 .

[SonicAF]

MordiMoro wrote...

In Italy we are sending mail to all games magazines that have reviewed Mass Effect 3.
We ask why all say "the epic conclusion of all the plots"... when it was not.

ps: the official strategy talks about the many end...more than 3... why?

Well...you can get that earth destroyed and reapers controled or earth damage and reapers destroyed and so on. There are actually only 3 endings and all of them do the same thing. Don't get decieved by "multiple endings" speeches.

[worldwide]

Biotic Sage wrote...

worldwide wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

Wouldn't that really undermine the Reapers if all it took to defeat them was enough firepower?  I mean, they are the beings that have harvested all intelligent life every 50,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years...that would be quite lame.

But don't you feel like even with the endings now it already undermines them? I mean if you went the paragon route and controlled them doesn't that undermine them in the fact that each reaper is basically a race of it's own, I mean thats what they said in mass effect 1 that each is a nation unto itself, even if your like he controlled the person who controlled them that it's also like a copout that you can't control the reapers just the big bad energy dude who created and controlled them from the beginning?
And if you went and destroyed the reapers in the fact that the reapers have such a crap weakness just shoot the red tube and all of a sudden they just blink out of existence?

They are "each a nation unto itself" because they are each composed of a separate harvested race.  However, they all have a collective consciousness.  The consciousness of the Catalyst and the Reapers are one in the same, at least how I interpreted it.

And how is the Crucible a copout or a "crap weakness?"  You are forgetting what that "red tube" represents: the combined efforts of every single cycle of intelligent organic life to modify the Catalyst in order to create a new paradigm of existence in the Milky Way Galaxy.  That's not a cop out or a "deus ex machina", that's damn poetic in my opinion.

true true everyone interprets things their own way
as to the crucible i guess they spent so long hyping up about how awesome the crucible will be that I had hoped for something more interesting than a 'shoot here in case of reaper attack'

[ynh]

As I said previously, they don't need massive changes to the end. They just need a paragon/renegade interrupt as God-VI is talking. It's such a simple change that it won't break the current endings and ****** the people who liked the endings off.

[Biotic Sage]

Militarized wrote...

It is stated previously, NUMEROUS TIMES, that the Reapers main advantage is surprise.

I don't know, surprise is a fine advantage and all, but I've seen first hand another advantage the Reapers have: being pretty much invincible giant god-like techno-organic beings that fire highly destructive laser beams.  Not only that, but there are thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of these things.  I would have laughed out loud if we took the Reapers down by shooting at them a lot.

Yes the surprise factor certainly sped up the harvesting process, but from what I know of Reapers and what I know of the combined galactic strength, it would have only been a minor deterrant, not a huge loss for them.  Maybe we look at Reapers differently.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 10 mars 2012 - 01:52 .

[Fhear]

So... for now: The only thing we could do is indeed hope for an alternate(or better: the REAL) ending DLC...
Isn't it crazy how hundred hours of gameplay killed in 10 minutes? And don't even think about the replay-value...

Crazy...

[ace1221]

the fact that this thread has grown larger than the "From Ashes" thread (which is in a non-spoiler forum!) shows just how much something needs to be done.

But then again, they didnt listen to us in that thread either...

i should go

[deathscythe517]

Yes, yes we do, considering Shepard and co manage to take down at least TWO Reapers on their (relative) own and the combined might of the entire rest of the galaxy combined seems to be tearing into the Reapers pretty badly...

It's even stated in the codex, without the kinetic barriers, they'll be cut like butter. Hell a better 'super weapon' would have been something capable of knocking out shields...

[Wattoes]

Fhear wrote...

So... for now: The only thing we could do is indeed hope for an alternate(or better: the REAL) ending DLC...
Isn't it crazy how hundred hours of gameplay killed in 10 minutes? And don't even think about the replay-value...

Crazy...

Thats the worst part about this whole thing.  

I was planning running through the trilogy back to back and then finishing off my other Shepards.

Now I dont ever want to play mass effect again.

[firas333]

The endings are fine to kill of the trilogy, cremate it and then bury it on a desolate planet, kill. The problem is it doesn't answer anything at all (say hello to mass effect:"some title like revelations, reloaded etc" or DLC). Then it plops you right back before the confrontaion as if nothing happened essentially saying "If you want another ending go through all that again." only to find out none of them really make any difference.

Also it totally ruins any sense of emotional attachment to any of the characters in the whole game( except for those that died before last missions.

The morality choices in ME3 at the end were so ambigous it it is outright ridicilous, ruining your character role made for this RPG, might as well made it an action game, maybe the "action" setting at start was they focused on, but it leaves the other ones begging for attention.

[ziyon conqueror]

For some time, I've imagined that ME3 would end with the Normandy flying towards the sunset just like in the prologue (and in Serenity, the movie, which I very much like). Instead, after the ending, I felt my heart pounding, lost my appetite and lay motionless on my bed, trying to rationalize this horrible and un-traditional ending away. For so long I've expected the series to be like Star Wars or Star Trek. I don't know whether I'll play again until Bioware puts up an apology and gives a true ending to remember and cherish.

[PSUHammer]

Well this thread is huge and I am not going to read it all. I have seen some great comments on the endings and some pretty lame whining. But, I would say that the endings would have been fine had they explained them a bit more.

Someone just above said they loved the game up until Shep and Anderson were sitting on the Citadel looking out at the battle. Same here. The Catalyst boy felt so tacked on and unexplained that I was like "what the f?"

I was wondering about unresolved things you collected like Aria's merc army? Where were they? It would have been cool if they showed some cut scenes that showed how some of your collected resources were involved in the battle. But, that is nitpicky.

The ending would have been ok if they would have been a little more graceful in explaining it. It just created more questions than answers. And, I did feel some things were left unresolved.  You build up this military might and gather all these people....for what?  Where was the emotional payoff?

I was king of hoping that kid in the dreams was just Shep going a little crazy...that would have been a better ending.  LOL!

It does kill the replay value for me.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 10 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[LordHelfort]

ziyon conqueror wrote...

For some time, I've imagined that ME3 would end with the Normandy flying towards the sunset just like in the prologue (and in Serenity, the movie, which I very much like). Instead, after the ending, I felt my heart pounding, lost my appetite and lay motionless on my bed, trying to rationalize this horrible and un-traditional ending away. For so long I've expected the series to be like Star Wars or Star Trek. I don't know whether I'll play again until Bioware puts up an apology and gives a true ending to remember and cherish.

Let them know.

On a side note, can anyone provide us with what the general reaction Europeans are having on their section of the BSN forums.

[P_sutherland]

Wattoes wrote...

Fhear wrote...

So... for now: The only thing we could do is indeed hope for an alternate(or better: the REAL) ending DLC...
Isn't it crazy how hundred hours of gameplay killed in 10 minutes? And don't even think about the replay-value...

Crazy...

Thats the worst part about this whole thing.  

I was planning running through the trilogy back to back and then finishing off my other Shepards.

Now I dont ever want to play mass effect again.

I cant find the motivation to open the capmaign or multiplayer.... the end isnt worth the buildup.

[darkFearz]

nilcox wrote...

My prediction for bioware response : Payed dlc that expands upon the story after the events in ME3, Im 100% sure they wont retcon the ending because at the end of the day its the ending they wanted and I havent ever seen ANYONE or ANYTHING ever go in to a finished product and retcon an ending, it dosent happen in movies, books and it will never happen in games. All we can hope for a DLC that ties it all together and makes it seem less stupid.

One it does happen in movies, there are plenty of movies which come out that have alternative endings. As for books most GOOD WRITERS when they end their book (whether the ending is good/bad/happy/sad) explain,elaborate and give closure. 

ME3 did not do that. The ending was horribly written, no explanation of what happened afterwords, lore holes, story holes, etc.

And for changing the end of ME3, yes it would take work. But all it takes is DLC and pathc it into the game.

[ynh]

LordHelfort wrote...

ziyon conqueror wrote...

For some time, I've imagined that ME3 would end with the Normandy flying towards the sunset just like in the prologue (and in Serenity, the movie, which I very much like). Instead, after the ending, I felt my heart pounding, lost my appetite and lay motionless on my bed, trying to rationalize this horrible and un-traditional ending away. For so long I've expected the series to be like Star Wars or Star Trek. I don't know whether I'll play again until Bioware puts up an apology and gives a true ending to remember and cherish.

Let them know.

On a side note, can anyone provide us with what the general reaction Europeans are having on their section of the BSN forums.

I don't have a link but I've seen a few guys across the pond posting and they are saying the same thing. They're humans just like us so I expect they will also be very disappointed

[CDHarrisUSF]

nilcox wrote...

I havent ever seen ANYONE or ANYTHING ever go in to a finished product and retcon an ending, it dosent happen in movies, books and it will never happen in games.

I guess you must not have played Fallout 3. The "Broken Steel" DLC modified the game's original ending.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 10 mars 2012 - 02:02 .

[Lurchibald]

Militarized wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

Wraith 02 wrote...

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

Wouldn't that really undermine the Reapers if all it took to defeat them was enough firepower?  I mean, they are the beings that have harvested all intelligent life every 50,000 years for hundreds of thousands of years...that would be quite lame.

No it doesn't undermine the Reapers, in my opinion. The ending is not conventional warfare, it's an all out balls the wall assault that is most likely unprecedented in galactic history. It is stated previously, NUMEROUS TIMES, that the Reapers main advantage is surprise. They come through the Citadel unexpected, the seat of power, and immediatly wipe everyone out in such a way the forming a resistance becomes almost impossible. They take control of the citadel also, which gives them control of the relays... cutting off worlds from each other. Javik said they fought a war of attrition, planet by planet with small forces. That fits in to the previous mentions of worlds being cut off from each other. More proof that what we did was unprecedented. 

That is how they win, the Reaper numbers are quite few and most of their fleet is made up of destroyers which you CAN kill, as is shown through out the game. This massive push, if done correctly, I feel would be enough to at least cause MAJOR damage to the Reapers. The fight with Sovereign did not go so well because A) they were surpsied and unprepared and Not every single fleet was there, just what.. 2 human fleets? The Citadel defense force? In ME1 they say they've moved a lot of scout fleets out(the model of conventional warfare as stated in the Codex) to do small engagements and warn if they come but there is no warning. 

So to me, the Reapers could have been defeated... they just didn't want to do that because they wanted to pretend to have a deep philosophy in their game that people have connected with before. A lot of humans do not connect with, what I felt was the more overarching feel of Mass Effect which was cossmicism... but you fight anyway! Nope, let's just copy the Matrix. *facepalm* 

Don't forget that pretty much all ships have been outfitted with Thanix cannons which is based off of the weapon taken from Soverign after the battle of the citadel, and unlike all races that came before, the current galatic races have had time to study the weapon and make the Thanix (thanks to the Prothians interfereing with that signal, our races have gained an advantage like no other race has had) 

We had time to prepare and we also have weapons that are comparible to the Reapers!

Modifié par Lurchibald, 10 mars 2012 - 02:03 .

[Anthadlas]

ynh wrote...

LordHelfort wrote...

ziyon conqueror wrote...

For some time, I've imagined that ME3 would end with the Normandy flying towards the sunset just like in the prologue (and in Serenity, the movie, which I very much like). Instead, after the ending, I felt my heart pounding, lost my appetite and lay motionless on my bed, trying to rationalize this horrible and un-traditional ending away. For so long I've expected the series to be like Star Wars or Star Trek. I don't know whether I'll play again until Bioware puts up an apology and gives a true ending to remember and cherish.

Let them know.

On a side note, can anyone provide us with what the general reaction Europeans are having on their section of the BSN forums.

I don't have a link but I've seen a few guys across the pond posting and they are saying the same thing. They're humans just like us so I expect they will also be very disappointed

English fleet is reporting in, That ending was ****