101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Gallion33103]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

zoider16 wrote...

Okay after reading what was said about all this on destructoid it really got me thinking. I have been against gamer entitlement which I do feel has been on a real rise and is growing out of control. BUT what I really want to know is what everyone here thinks, I want you to really stop think could this all be gamer entitlement. Just because they said that there would be all these different endings depending on your choices does it give us a right to demand a new ending?

I am not saying that this all gamer entitlement, I have actually never seen something like this among gamers but I still want to know what do you all think? Please don't just jump on right away and say no its not, just take a minute to really think about all this. Do we have the right to demand a new ending when we do not own the ip but were promised all these things that didn't exactly happen?

I am just wanting to get everyone to really think about this and observe all of this as best I can. I am a historian and this feels like it could become an important historic moment in gaming. Not sure how many other people involved in this are historians so I want to make sure I document this as best I can.

We've spent hundreds of hours and dollars supporting and getting invested in this incredibl story, I'd say we're "entitled" to a positive outcome, yes. This isn't a book, this is an RPG. It's supposed to be our story, Bioware just sets up the context. They absolute failed whatever they were trying to do with the ending. They're always so quick to say how much they listen to their fan base, how the fans co-create theese games with them. I think that's enough entitlement.

Bingo

[Neroteyen]

Nathos wrote...


There you go: NEW MASS EFFECT CREDITS!

great job Im laughing. But crying also Sigh. Ya know.

[Max Knight]

christrek1982 wrote...

I will be very angery if Bioware don't pay attesion

start being angry...thou i would not mind a Broken stell style dlc for me3

[Tyranniac]

Silvren555 wrote...

I fully expected Shepard to die, it was the only logical ending, but not like this. He / She needed to go out with fireworks and the biggest damned explosion the galaxy will ever see, but instead we get these three pissant choices, a broken and battered Shep who just fizzles out...

Question: Would you have been alright with there being the possibility of an ending where Shepard survives if you work hard enough for it? As an option, not as the only ending. Just want to know since this is what I wanted for my main Shepard. She earned it. Not saying it should always end like that. Not saying doing that would fix the ending. Just saying I would have wanted that. It's part of what I would've wanted, along with the other things like an end that actually takes your previous choices into account and feels connected to the main story.

[Phydeaux314]

You know, I wonder if we're going to break a thousand pages with this thread?

We already hit the 100k views mark a while back...

[Goodwood]

zoider16 wrote...

Okay after reading what was said about all this on destructoid it really got me thinking. I have been against gamer entitlement which I do feel has been on a real rise and is growing out of control. BUT what I really want to know is what everyone here thinks, I want you to really stop think could this all be gamer entitlement. Just because they said that there would be all these different endings depending on your choices does it give us a right to demand a new ending?

"Gamer entitlement" is, IMHO, a misnomer, or at least a convenient label cooked up by someone who wants to be a general tosspot (again, IMHO). A small minority expressing a number of muddled and uncoordinated contrary opinions is something that's easy to ignore (for example, J. K. Rowling's utter indifference to the Bible-thumpers who decried her work). A large number of well-organized fans with opinions that are almost universally the same (within that group) expressing such feelings within a few days of launch is something that no business should ever ignore. Examples abound of real-life boycotts, organized just as swiftly and with as much strength, forcing businesses of all sizes to amend their products and/or intentions.

Anyone remember the Bank of America plan to charge a $5 monthly fee just for having a debit card?

I am not saying that this all gamer entitlement, I have actually never seen something like this among gamers but I still want to know what do you all think? Please don't just jump on right away and say no its not, just take a minute to really think about all this. Do we have the right to demand a new ending when we do not own the ip but were promised all these things that didn't exactly happen?

I am just wanting to get everyone to really think about this and observe all of this as best I can. I am a historian and this feels like it could become an important historic moment in gaming. Not sure how many other people involved in this are historians so I want to make sure I document this as best I can.

Yes, this could very well be history in the making. I was thrilled to discover that I was far, far from being alone in the feelings bestowed upon me by the...ending...we were spoon-fed. This game was already pushed back three months, and for what? If it is revealed that the delay was so they could implement multiplayer, I wouldn't be so angry because, much to my chagrin, it turned out to be halfway decent (if a bit glitchy) and something that works for me as an adjunct to the story. If, however, we find out that the delay was so that the devs could change the ending, I'd be apoplectic with rage. As it is, I'm left with this desperate, empty feeling, longing for some sort of acknowledgement from the developers that our hopes have not been completely dashed.

By all accounts, this feeling of universal disappointment seems to be virtually unprecedented in the history of gaming, even going by the skewed standards of gaming forums. I'm no historian of the games industry, but for such an outcry to reach to such heights in this small space of time since ignition...it's like watching the Saturn V carrying Apollo 11 as it ascends into the heavens. It's absolutely unlike anything that I have ever seen.

[Sterenn]

The poll rise to 10005 unsatisfied by the endings.

[christrek1982]

Max Knight wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

I will be very angery if Bioware don't pay attesion

start being angry...thou i would not mind a Broken stell style dlc for me3

a reply would be a nice start

[Rip504]

lordnyx1 wrote...

So i'd like to know... So what/who are the keepers? Are they the "god child" creators? Its first victims? Why did they fade away from the plot? Why was there one in that holding area with the bodies?

I tried shooting it...
With a Paladin V...

[ziyon conqueror]

What I believe would be a good ending to the story would the creator of the Reapers calling himself the Architect (sorry, the name just popped in my head if any of you are thinking of DA:O Awakening), appears, his consciousness was ripped from his body eons ago. He explains that his intentions for the Citadel, the mass relays and the Reapers, all meant to bring galactic unity. But a cult of fanatics seized control of his government during the growing unrest against synthetics. Thus their solutions was to abuse the Architect's work to create weapons of mass destruction and forced him to watch. But his consciousness reaches out to Shepard during the final battle and present a way to destroy the Reapers without destroying everything else he had built.

On the other hand, I would have my Shepard say, "How many people have you killed?! How many civilizations have you destroyed?! Billions?! Trillions?! The cycle ends here and it ends on our terms, not yours!!!"

I pride myself in believing in an ideal, not an arbitrary decision from the ME3 ending.

[Majandraja]

CySR2 wrote...

How it should have ended:

http://www.snowfi.co..._MassEffect.jpg

loled so hard I think I woke half my neigboors . Exactly how my FemShep would deal with the litte brat.

[Korhiann]

What I would have liked to see is the story ending with the destruction of the reapers or earth, with different variations on how succesful it all went. I really do dislike it when writers suddenly bring in a third antagonist for no apparent reason. From my point of view there didn't have to be some omnipotent power which created the reapers and basicly governs everything. The being simply "robbed the allied species' victory after sacrificing so much, basicly screwing them over afterwards.
I also really dislike it when writers go with the 3 button ending type. I didn't like it in Deus Ex: HR and I don't like it in ME3. However I do like having choices when done correctly, llike in the first Deus Ex.
The ending in ME3 should have been based on your combined efforts and your direction up until that point, not just something to be decided by a flick of the switch with an ending that doesn't provide any real closure.
My preferred ending would have been one where you simply tell the omnipotent entity that free will is preferrable to any alternative it's presented.

Modifié par Korhiann, 11 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[austinhan]

100004 votes as of 30 seconds ago.

There is no way Bioware can turn a blind eye on this, a lot of these complaints come from the most loyal of fans. We are many because we came to appreciate the watermark you set for videogames, that you can prove Ebert wrong, and evoke the strongest of emotions in a universe that only exists in paper, consoles, computers, and imaginations.

In ignoring us, you are leaving the most loyal and appreciative of bioware fans out in the cold.

People bought Mass Effect not so much because of the combat and multiplayer, but because it's a culmination of being a heroic figure that we could relate to, a figure that was willing to sacrifice so much, fight so much, to stem the tide of unspeakable evil.

There is a reason I spent my $60 on mass effect 3, and avoided mw3. But now, I cannot help but feel sour. It's rare for a great game and universe to be snuffed out in the last 15 minutes of a game. But until this is fixed, this is a rare exception.

[xAGATHONx]

Boo Bioware...why did you sell your souls to EA!? Way to ruin an amazing trilogy in a brief 5 minutes...sad day

[Kloborgg711]

No matter how much I think about it, I cannot comprehend how anyone at Bioware thought ANYONE would find closure from the ending. Yes, maybe 1/1000 people might actually like the premise of the ending, but even they couldn't tell me Mass Effect 3 wrapped up all the loose ends. The only certainty we have in the entire game is that, if you picked blue or gree--- uh, control or synthesis, Shepard dies. That's it. Everything else is based on assumption. What a horrible way to end a story. It's like if they stuck a MP Holy Grail ending to Braveheart or something.

[karambiatos]

xAGATHONx wrote...

Boo Bioware...why did you sell your souls to EA!? Way to ruin an amazing trilogy in a brief 5 minutes...sad day

rEApers use the voice of money to slowly indoctrinate their subjects

[Dr_Hello]

TO THE BIOWARE TEAM:

First off, congratulations on wrapping up this epic game trilogy! Excellent job!! Some of the things I've enjoyed in ME trilogy are the moral, philosophical and existential aspects and debates in the story and dialogue which makes for great cerebral scifi.

As a writer, I should say it's an epic ending to this monumental game/story. It reminds me of Dune, Book 4 (God emperor) whereby Leto II (son of Paul Atreides) decides to sacrifice himself for the continuation and future of the human race. Killing the hero in a story if done well can be profound and meaningful but if done improperly could lead to bad results.

So I do understand the intention behind the sacrificial aspect, a usually-profound way to wrap up the protagonist's story (if done properly).
Let's also look at Star Wars as an example: the story of Anakin which ends with his death; HOWEVER Anakin had a different character journey... (the RENEGADE way for using the ME lingo) whereby he went to the dark side, did bad things and could only redeem himself in the end, a well-fitted ending.... and considering the fact that the audience had Anakin's son - Luke - as the embodiment of hope and better future... 'the son saved the father' story element...

...and back to Dune Book 4, Leto II was from the beginning a solitary type of character, less of a human, more of a demi-god. He has no place among humans and can only sacrifice himself as a final act to save humanity.

...but in ME, there's only Shepard -- there's no son or father of his, and his human (with some cybernetic implants) -- and the unique feature in ME is that the hero is customized by the player which creates a very strong bond between protagonist and player/viewer. So one has to be even more careful when deciding whether or not to kill the protagonist!!

Since user can choose paragon over renegade, and can do the 'right thing' based on the many decisions in ME1 and ME2, an additional, possibly more hopeful ending should have been written if conditions are met by players, for e.g. 100% paragon Shepard + large enough war assets + completion of game at level Insanity or Difficult perhaps.

... and that additional ending could simply be: add inserted shots of Shepard and his longtime love interest - whichever player had chosen - together. It doesn't have to be cheesy or cliche. It could perhaps be Shepard badly hurt, lying next to Normandy wreckage and his soulmate - say Liara for argument's sake - finds him and they simply smile at one another (thinking "we made it!") -- THIS WOULD REWARD THE PLAYERS A LOT AND CREATE BETTER RESOLUTION -- especially for gamers who had invested so much time and effort for collecting max. paragon points, finishing the game(s) at high difficulty level, collecting max. war assets, and such.
Even in the ending whereby Shepard apparently lives (which is still unclear whether it's him or not in that N7 suit), viewers are left with a bad departing image of their hero. The attempt at nuance doesn't work in this case.

Maybe that 'special' ending is out there already and no one has seen it yet, let's hope so, because the story ends on a too bitter than sweet note.

TO SUM IT ALL UP: The endings are profound and meaningful, but fail to be inspirational and hopeful. Maybe the way the ending sequence shots are put together are to be blamed?!

A SUGGESTION: Add a 'happy' ending version whereby Shepard lives and is found by his/her soulmate in the wreckage, which wouldn't compromise the original intention of the endings, especially if it's only unlocked for players with right conditions, that is, 100% paragon, max war assets, game level Insanity) and/or whatever have you.

Modifié par Dr_Hello, 11 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[ReapersSniper]

Hey everyone heres another petition http://www.change.or...es-of-the-game#

[Tony208]

There could've been some great endings. From worst to best.

1. Reapers win. You rushed through the main story and barely recruited anyone to help in the fight. You screwed people over when you didn't need to. The Reapers win and you get a short epilogue of Shepard, the rest of the crew, and the galaxy being harvested. Then we see the Yahgs stumble upon Liara's time capsule sometime in the future.

2. Everything in between. This would be where the current endings belong.

3. Shepard and some crew live. You recruit almost everyone and everything possible to fight. Epilogue of rebuilding cities and a mass relay prototype. Shepard is with LI and friends.

Modifié par Tony208, 11 mars 2012 - 12:38 .

[JPshieux]

Rip504 wrote...

lordnyx1 wrote...

So i'd like to know... So what/who are the keepers? Are they the "god child" creators? Its first victims? Why did they fade away from the plot? Why was there one in that holding area with the bodies?

I tried shooting it...
With a Paladin V...

As I stood there contemplating each decision I did finally turn around and shot the little brat a couple of times before limping towards the red crayon option.  

[Sterenn]

Dr_Hello wrote...
A SUGGESTION: Add a 'happy' ending version which wouldn't compromise the original intention of the endings. It'd be unlocked for players with right conditions, that is, 100% paragon, max war assets, game level Insanity) and/or whatever have you.

What about the people who wants to play renegade or the ones who cannot play Insanity level? No definitely success should be determined by the choices our Shepard did in the two precedents ME and not be based on lame statistics.

[ViperAlvein]

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

it keeps...going...up!

[Goodwood]

zoider16 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Yes, this could very well be history in the making. I was thrilled to discover that I was far, far from being alone in the feelings bestowed upon me by the...ending...we were spoon-fed. This game was already pushed back three months, and for what? If it is revealed that the delay was so they could implement multiplayer, I wouldn't be so angry because, much to my chagrin, it turned out to be halfway decent (if a bit glitchy) and something that works for me as an adjunct to the story. If, however, we find out that the delay was so that the devs could change the ending, I'd be apoplectic with rage. As it is, I'm left with this desperate, empty feeling, longing for some sort of acknowledgement from the developers that our hopes have not been completely dashed.

By all accounts, this feeling of universal disappointment seems to be virtually unprecedented in the history of gaming, even going by the skewed standards of gaming forums. I'm no historian of the games industry, but for such an outcry to reach to such heights in this small space of time since ignition...it's like watching the Saturn V carrying Apollo 11 as it ascends into the heavens. It's absolutely unlike anything that I have ever seen.

This is exactly why I posed this question, but this is such a huge moment. I have never seen such a clear concensus among gamers about a single issue such as this. Normally there would be huge amounts of infighting and nasty dispute yet here we have agreement with a minimal amount of nasty comments being flung at each other. I have never seen something like this before and I really want to make sure to get every angle of this situation. Thank you for your repsonse.

You're welcome. And you know, you're not the only one who's interested in history. About forty or so pages back I wrote up a brief comparison between Band of Brothers and Apocalypse Now with regards to how the Mass Effect series is, like it or not, a war story. And that, by definition, any good war story should include some sort of epilogue that ties up the loose ends (BoB had a good one, even if it was a tad drawn out, while AN didn't even need one because it was a psychological thriller first and a war story second).

So yeah, it's like they tried to finish a good old fashioned "against all odds" war story with a "mindf**k twister" conclusion that ended up diminishing the entire series.