101103 réponses à ce sujet

[christrek1982]

Tony208 wrote...

There could've been some great endings. From worst to best.

1. Reapers win. You rushed through the main story and barely recruited anyone to help in the fight. You screwed people over when you didn't need to. The Reapers win and you get a short epilogue of Shepard, the rest of the crew, and the galaxy being harvested. Then we see the Yahgs stumble upon Liara's time capsule sometime in the future.

2. Everything in between. This would be where the current endings belong.

3. Shepard and some crew live. You recruit almost everyone and everything possible to fight. Epilogue of rebuilding cities and a mass relay prototype. Shepard is with LI and friends.

now thats not a hard thing to ask or expect and that is what is missing the choice of ends happy and tragic

[Kitten Tactics]

Please indulge us crazies for a moment. The following is a partial list of reasons we believe the ending is a hallucination. I promise if you read it, it will make more sense than you think.

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-In Synthesis and Control, the various energies cause Shepard to turn black and start to appear VERY husk-like. This does not happen in Destroy because Destroy is the only option in which Shepard is not falling under Reaper control.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-How would the reapers (or anything really) know to use the image of the child unless they were inside Shepard's head?

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

If you would like to discuss/contribute, please visit the thread listed here:

http://social.biowar.../index/9727423/

[Jetfire99]

Edbi wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

Inspection of BSN forces in progress.
Take back the endings!
We are going to fight with rEApers!

United Kigdom - 520
- Scottish fleet- 100
- Glaswegian Battalions - 20

United States of America - 770
- Oregon Engineer Section - 100
- Pittsburgh Steelers heavy infantry/Pittsburgh Steelers Iron Curtian - 100
- Southwest Missouri angry republican 50
- Southern Overwatch - 80
- Special Ops - 100
- Vermont Hippie potheads - 50
- Oregon Engineering Section - 20
- Pacific Northwest Hipster Batallion -50
- Hoosier Cruiser - 20
- Maryland Vanguard Assault Unit: Raven Corps - 80
- Michigan Medical Corps - 50



Canada - 400
- Saskatchewan mechanical division - 50
- SSV Guelph - 50
- Atlantic Canadian fleet reporting in - 140
- Edmonton Blood Dragons - 150
- Canadian Tundra Engineering Corps - 50
- Vancouver Island Covert Ops- 100


European Union: 660
- Poland - 100
- Czech Science Crew - 50
- Czech Bio-Engineering Laboratories -50
- Slovak fleet - 100
- Swedish fleet - 100

- Lone Turkish Frigate - 10
- German Fleet - 200
- German Pioneer Corps - 50


Russian fleets - 450
- Russian Destroyers - 50
- Siberian Special Task Forces -100


Other Nations: 900
- Australia - 150
- Brazilia Militia - 200
- Argentinian Fleet - 150
- Singapore Strike Team - 100
- Spanish & Latin Fleets in - 150 (approx)
- Israel Mossad Infiltration Unit -150

Misc:
- Tamcia' Frigate - 10
- SSV VyR - 25

you forgot Czech Fleet we are still here and ready

SSV  Sechelt - 10

Reporting.  
Awaiting to join formation with the Canadian fleet.

[jbauck]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

zoider16 wrote...

Okay after reading what was said about all this on destructoid it really got me thinking. I have been against gamer entitlement which I do feel has been on a real rise and is growing out of control. BUT what I really want to know is what everyone here thinks, I want you to really stop think could this all be gamer entitlement. Just because they said that there would be all these different endings depending on your choices does it give us a right to demand a new ending?

I am not saying that this all gamer entitlement, I have actually never seen something like this among gamers but I still want to know what do you all think? Please don't just jump on right away and say no its not, just take a minute to really think about all this. Do we have the right to demand a new ending when we do not own the ip but were promised all these things that didn't exactly happen?

I am just wanting to get everyone to really think about this and observe all of this as best I can. I am a historian and this feels like it could become an important historic moment in gaming. Not sure how many other people involved in this are historians so I want to make sure I document this as best I can.

We've spent hundreds of hours and dollars supporting and getting invested in this incredibl story, I'd say we're "entitled" to a positive outcome, yes. This isn't a book, this is an RPG. It's supposed to be our story, Bioware just sets up the context. They absolute failed whatever they were trying to do with the ending. They're always so quick to say how much they listen to their fan base, how the fans co-create theese games with them. I think that's enough entitlement.

I put in italics the part I find most relevant.  Is it "entitlement" to expect that any other kind of product works as advertised?  As @Kloborgg711 says, this is an RPG, and is supposed to be our story.  As @zoider16 states in the italicized portion, we were promised things - things I based my purchasing decision on - and those things didn't exactly happen ... 

So, I thought I was buying one thing, and then it turned out to be something totally different.  Entertainment companies (including books and movies - not just video games) get away with marketing shenanigans that would be considered false advertising for any other business, because we can safely assume that in the entertainment industry, not everyone is going to like the same things.  But even so, how is expecting a product that I bought to be as advertised a sense of "entitlement"?  They're on record saying ME3 would have a satisfying ending with closure.  It did not.

That makes me an idiot for believing them enough to buy a digital copy that I can't return anywhere, of ME1, 2 >and< 3, because I'd return the whole series if I could right now.  Shame on me.  That means, as a consumer, since I can't get my money back for a product I find unsatisfactory, my only recourse is to ask that the company that sold it to me fix it.  If they don't *shrug* ... there goes what would have otherwise been my all-time favorite video game series.  In fact, it would have been my all-time favorite sci-fi franchise.

So if they stand by their ending, that's fine, because it's their product.  That will just communicate to me, though, that they aren't interested in making a product that I will like anymore - so they're just not worth buying.  Am I demanding a different ending?  I might have screamed that in my head once or twice - and I know I've been very critical of their ending on this board - but I'm not demanding it.  I'm asking for it, because without a different ending, I think this product that I bought sucks, and I would like it to not suck.  And if they don't, I can safely assume that they don't care that I think their product sucks, they think it was great ... and that this will probably be true with future products as well.  Which I will exercise my right not to buy.

It's not that I can't handle a downer ending - I can.  I really enjoy downer endings in a lot of cases ... but this is a video game.  Hamlet, for instance, ends exactly the way that it should, and it would be ridiculous for it to end differently ... except that if I'd spent well over 200 hours of my life navigating Hamlet through Elsinore castle, running everyone's random fetch-and-fix sidequests, trying to get my crown back and avenge my father's death only to have Hamlet and everyone around him die at the end, I'd be pissed at William Shakespeare, too.

[avantoreon]

It would have been nice to have an ending that made sense within the lore of the game.

I thought a mass relay blowing up destroyed an entire star system?

If the magic rays at the end don't destroy ships (and they don't appear to, since the reapers just fall down or pull out and the fleet seems to still be in space), why is the Normandy trying to outrun it?

Also, how did my ground team manage to magically get from Earth onto the Normandy, and then from Earth to the mass relay, in the ten minutes or so it takes me to activate the catalyst?


If they didn't have Joker and the Normandy do that weird Gilligan's Island thing, and if they just maybe turned off the relays instead of exploding them, I would have felt a little better about the ending.

Would have still liked to get a bit more resolution in terms of what people get up to after the reapers are defeated, but I'd be willing to settle for an ending minus the Normandy crash.

Modifié par avantoreon, 11 mars 2012 - 01:26 .

[Anthadlas]

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

[Nathos]

I keep asking myself for how long will BW ignore us... You see, this topic has 10 thousand answers and more than 120 thousand views. The poll that ask what the ppl think about the ending has more than 10 thousand votes telling that the ending sucks.

So... for how long BW?

[K0M154R]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Please indulge us crazies for a moment. The following is a partial list of reasons we believe the ending is a hallucination. I promise if you read it, it will make more sense than you think.

et al...

Now THAT is a theory I can entertain! However, either way you slice it, it seems Bioware sold us a half-baked (if that much) ending.

[gamenut4000]

Knowing that when I make a post no one responds. I think what I wanted to say fits in this thread anyways. I was helping out the Koalition Gaming Community when Mass Effect 2 was being made. I posted my concerns as bioware continued. I won't do the same with Mass Effect 3 and here is why. I feel like Bioware failed with ME 2 and 3.

In Mass Effect 2 you find out through the Codex Miranda Lawson is infertile from the gene re-writing. I remember Ashley Williams being mentioned I think for the same thing. I can't remember. Point is they screwed you over in the story line. In Mass Effect 2 you die with the Normandy. In Mass Effect 3 you die unless you destroy the Reapers. Even then it's not clear if you need 4K or 5K Military Readiness to get him to live (the strategy guide is very confusing). Still.. It's unclear what happens after that.

It's like Sheppard gets robbed 3 times (depending on the story line). If you romanced Ashley she is there for you in Mass Effect 1. In Mass Effect 2 she is no where near. In Mass Effect 3 you re-unite. You don't see any continuation of their story line (except more sex). They don't get married or anything. You would think after more then 2 tours (ME 1 and 3) together they would do something more then have sex again.

For Miranda Lawson.. you only get her in Mass Effect 2. In Mass Effect 3 she is a long distance relationship. It's not clear as well what happens after that.

For Tali.. you can only romance her in Mass Effect 2. In Mass Effect 3 she is still with you but, again unclear. You would think after 3 tours (ME 1, 2 and 3) together something would happen.

Long story short you can see where this is frustrating. It's like Sheppard does nothing but, die or fight. That is all it's about. It doesn't show any of the behind the scenes story lines. That is my number 1 complaint. It bothers me that much because I am the idea/support person. I like to help other writers, write their material. I am there for the story line as my first priority. Game play is second priority.

Anyone else agree with me?

Modifié par gamenut4000, 11 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[Tainan7509]

Neroteyen wrote...

Nathos wrote...


There you go: NEW MASS EFFECT CREDITS!

great job Im laughing. But crying also Sigh. Ya know.

Yeah that song fit this end so well. LOL

[Geda173]

Can anyone pin point me in a direction to understand what people mean with "bad Fallout 3 ending" and "DLC that fixed it"? I havent player Fallout 3 and I'm not planning on doing so. A little help would be greatly appreciated.

[IndelibleJester]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Please indulge us crazies for a moment. The following is a partial list of reasons we believe the ending is a hallucination. I promise if you read it, it will make more sense than you think.

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-In Synthesis and Control, the various energies cause Shepard to turn black and start to appear VERY husk-like. This does not happen in Destroy because Destroy is the only option in which Shepard is not falling under Reaper control.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-How would the reapers (or anything really) know to use the image of the child unless they were inside Shepard's head?

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

If you would like to discuss/contribute, please visit the thread listed here:

http://social.biowar.../index/9727423/

My new headcanon to replace that ending....

[KaiserinKai]

Wraith 02 wrote...

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

THANK YOU. This is all Bioware needed to do. No god kid AI, no Joker flying away for no reason, no Adam and Eve plot with the crew stranded and Team Dextro starving.

It could have been this god darn simple and the gamers would have been happy...

[vigna]

Wraith 02 wrote...

All I wanted from endings was

Renegade
1. You didn't prepare enough and everybody dies, The Reapers win
2. You sacrifice your alien allies fleets to save humanity and defeat the Reapers

Paragon
1. You didn't prepare enough and have to sacrifice yourself and the human fleets to save the rest of the galaxy.
2. You rally the entire galaxy against the Reapers and destroy them becoming a galactic hero.

Might seem a bit simple but I would have loved something like this.

uhhhhhh, yeah. That's it. I think most  thought that actually--or variations of that structure.

[LotharanAeron]

Something else that has played into the dissatisfaction with the endings is all of the trailers leading up to the game's release showed Shepard heroically "retaking the Earth" with all the forces of the galaxy plowing through the Reaper forces. I at least thought the game would have a similar tone. If you united the Galaxy you'd lay the smackdown on the Reapers and come out on top, somehow, like in the previous games. I was so pumped to be the hero that the game's final scenes, even before the ending choices (but especially those) came as a monumental shock. Paragon or Renegade, my Shepard was a badass Hero in armor and seeing him limping around burnt and bloodied took something away from it all. This wasn't heroic sacrifice, it was just, more sacrifice.

[Nathos]

Geda173 wrote...

Can anyone pin point me in a direction to understand what people mean with "bad Fallout 3 ending" and "DLC that fixed it"? I havent player Fallout 3 and I'm not planning on doing so. A little help would be greatly appreciated.

In FO3 without the DLC you have to die to "save humanity" and the game ends. But Bethesda release a DLC that you don't have to die on the ending and still save everyone, plus you can keep playing exploring the game.

[Wattoes]

Tainan7509 wrote...

Neroteyen wrote...

Nathos wrote...


There you go: NEW MASS EFFECT CREDITS!

great job Im laughing. But crying also Sigh. Ya know.

Yeah that song fit this end so well. LOL

Oh my god, so amazing.

[karambiatos]

gamenut4000 wrote...
 I am there for the story line as my first priority. Game play is second priority.

Anyone else agree with me?

i agree with you, but its not true for everyone
i can bear through a game if gameplay is terrible and strory is good (but its ussually if the story line is good the game play is good too), but some people play video games for the gameplay more than the story

[DarkRavin07]

www.youtube.com/watch better end song.  Someone nailed this one.  Take notes Biofail

[AvianCat]

Geda173 wrote...

Can anyone pin point me in a direction to understand what people mean with "bad Fallout 3 ending" and "DLC that fixed it"? I havent player Fallout 3 and I'm not planning on doing so. A little help would be greatly appreciated.

Fallout 3 just ended after the final story mission but DLC opened it back up basically, but even that game had better closure than ME3. So the comparison really doesn't fit to be honest.

[Korhiann]

Geda173 wrote...

Can anyone pin point me in a direction to understand what people mean with "bad Fallout 3 ending" and "DLC that fixed it"? I havent player Fallout 3 and I'm not planning on doing so. A little help would be greatly appreciated.

In the original Fallout 3 you had an ending where you (the PC) had to commit suicide by exposing yourself to lethal doses of radiation in order to save the wasteland. Even though you had two companions who were immune to radiation, when asked to flick the switch for you they decline. This is just a simplification of the ending.
Bethesda rewrote the ending in a DLC pack so that you could actually survive the ending. 

[AlexXIV]

Tainan7509 wrote...

Neroteyen wrote...

Nathos wrote...


There you go: NEW MASS EFFECT CREDITS!

great job Im laughing. But crying also Sigh. Ya know.

Yeah that song fit this end so well. LOL

Oh ffs my new sig! Thank you!

[Asuka Bianchini]

Can this unit have a good ending?

[kramerfan86]

Honestly as much as I hate the endings I think my fellow disappointeds who are hoping for bioware to actually fix it are barking up the wrong tree. At best you might get them trying to explain and justify their ending and at worst they will just tell us to deal with it. An actual fix is not coming.