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[wolverine4262]

GBGriffin wrote...

wolverine4262 wrote...

Jessica Merizan says she interpreted the citadel events at the end a "dying hallucination" on her twitter.

Interpreted doesn't really mean much. It's not exactly "official", as in a statement from the dev team that wrote it.

Yeah, she says in the same post that she didnt know what the devs intended. I just thought Id share it.
LINK BTW

[DTKT]

GBGriffin wrote...

wolverine4262 wrote...

Jessica Merizan says she interpreted the citadel events at the end a "dying hallucination" on her twitter.

Interpreted doesn't really mean much. It's not exactly "official", as in a statement from the dev team that wrote it.

Note that she does PR, she is not part of the dev team and had no influence on the actual design process.

Like it or not, her opinion is that of a fan, not a designer.

The same as us. I will wait till we have one of the Producers or designers comment on the issue.

[NUMBER-501]

Let me premise this by saying I am not a forum person and it has been a long 24 hour delay period since making this account to post consisting of constantly refreshing this thread which I sought out immediately after completeing the 3 "different" endings for my favorite video game series to date assuming that I made some tragic error along the way (possibly my punishment for punching the journalist [her name currently escapes me] in ME2 and ME3?!).

I do not have anything new or spectacular to add to the face of this feed but I will say thank you for everyone for putting forth support for this cause, which hopefully achieves some fruition in due time. Thanks for (on the most part) keeping the conversation's tone one of legitimate concern and productivity which surprised myself and hopefully earns some respect from the higher-ups.

The issues with the ending of ME3 have been more than laid out by the almost 700 preceding pages and don't require my restatement. Keep the conversation going and realize any legitimate progress going forward will require an overwhelming amount of patience from all of us in order to receive the product we are asking for. You guys rock.


P.S. (Sorry I can't resist) Mordin Solus should have overseen the writing of the ends to this story. Someone else has gotten it wrong. 

Modifié par NUMBER-501, 11 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[magor1988x]

Kitten Tactics wrote...

Please indulge us crazies for a moment. The following is a partial list of reasons we believe the ending is a hallucination. I promise if you read it, it will make more sense than you think.

-The endgame scenario is Indoctrination/Manipulation from the Reapers (Harbinger) trying to force you into choosing to let the Reapers live. Shepard is not awake during the final scenes.

-Choosing Control - You can not control them, they control you. Shepard says as much to the Illusive Man moments earlier.

-Choosing Synthesis - Allows everyone in the galaxy to be manipulated by Reaper code, like they have done to the Geth multiple times now.

-Choosing Destroy - Breaks the hold the reapers have on Shepard's mind.

-Choosing to destroy all synthetic life option is more Renegade in appearence. Controlling the Reapers is more Paragon in appearence. The Illusive Man's choice should not be Paragon colors, just as Anderson's choice should not be Renegade. The reapers are saying that Destroy is the worst, Control is worse, and Synthesis is the best. They want you to fail.

-Stating that all sythetic life will be destroyed will give you pause; destroying the Geth can force you to a different conclusion. This choice exists for the illusion of choice; the other choices are ment to sound better.

-In Synthesis and Control, the various energies cause Shepard to turn black and start to appear VERY husk-like. This does not happen in Destroy because Destroy is the only option in which Shepard is not falling under Reaper control.

-Shepard wakes up after Destroy, because the Reaper's hold is diminished. Shepard does not awake in the other 2 "endings" because you are fully indoctrinated by the choices you made to allow the Reapers to win. "Assuming Control!"

-How would the reapers (or anything really) know to use the image of the child unless they were inside Shepard's head?

-The child does not actually exist. He is an attempt to indoctrinate Shepard. Nobody but Shepard ever sees or interacts with the child.

-When Anderson calls for Shepard at the beginning of the game, when Shepard is talking to the child, Shepard turns back and the child is gone. Shepard has been "snapped out of it".

-When Shepard turns towards Anderson after being "snapped out of it", a growl is heard. In the third novel, when Greyson resisted the reapers they would make a growling noise once they realized they didn't have him under complete control.

-During Shepard's final dream with the child, chatter can be heard over the radio about nobody making it to the beam. Shepard is still in London.

-When Shepard catches the child in the final dream, they are both engulfed in flame. Going with the child (the reapers) means Shepard's destruction.

-Shepard has spent alot of time around Reapers. Soveriegn, various Reaper artifacts, the Human Reaper, 2 Reaper destroyers, the Artifact from "The Arrival." Its foolish to assume there is not some level of indoctrination.

-When Shepard wakes up at the end of Destroy, he/she is waking up in London, after being hit with the laser.

If you would like to discuss/contribute, please visit the thread listed here:

http://social.biowar.../index/9727423/

Now this is all well & good but why not go about setting this up from Mass Effect 1 or 2?

Also why does it seem so few others exposed to the Reaper tech over time are unaffected in the way that Shepard seems to be? Tali, Garrus, Joker, Ashley/Kaidan, Katsumi, Miranda, Jacob, Zaeed, and especially Liara?

If the Reapers had truly indoctrinated Shepard why hadn't they acted long ago? Why let Shepard get that far? Why not influence him in other subtle ways prior to this to ensure his failure? It's not bad theory overall but there's not enough grand setup beyond ultrasubtle clues. 

I'm going to take BW at the superficial level & say this was not what was intended. (The growl you hear w/the child- there is a Reaper right outside the building & the building is full of Reaper forces as you just had to kill Husks entering) 

I took the dreams to be a form of PTSD. Shepard has been fighting constantly for three years & prior to the events of Mass Effect all three Shepard origins have him seeing a lot of death.

Sole Survivor: Everyone in Shepards day to day life dies & he is the *only* one to make it out.
Ruthless: Everyone in Shepard's command dies.
War Hero: Shepard has to kill many many Batarians & soldier's fighting w/him probably die. (Casualties in war are unavoidable, the story doesn't go too deep into it other than that he saves the civilians, but what about anyone who fought w/him? Why was all the weight on him to succeed?)

Mass Effect 1: Shepard has to doom the Krogan to continued genophage, choose whether Ashley or Kaiden die, & choose whether the Council & thousands of Asari or thousands of humans die.

Mass Effect 2: Shepard himself "dies," if anything were to destablize Shepard at all wouldn't his own death? Whole colonies are disappearing, lots of people die, & there is the possibility that a large portion of the Normandy's crew will die. Alenko/Williams don't trust him. Shepard must sacrifice a Batarian colony. etc etc

Mass Effect 3: Thane, Mordin, Legion, Anderson, & on & on. 

I took the dreams to be a sign of Shepard finally being hit with a case of Post Traumatic Stress (I've had friends with PTSD & it can be incredibly painful). After years under pressure to me it seemed like a great choice in writing. This one childs death finally snaps Shepard (Listen to the voices during the dream sequence, they're often from people who died or about moments of death or choices by Shepard which led to possible deaths--- in my 1st game Ashley survived & much of the dream sequence was narrated by Alenko).

It doesn't *have* to be indoctrination, it could be PTSD (or a mixture of the two) & indoctrination doesn't solve many of the plotholes surrounding the game.

(Alternate ending the Catalyst scene never happened & everything after it was a hallucination by Shepard, humanity & all the races failed & the harvesting is completed- Reapers return to Dark Space & begin the next Cycle... I mean think about it. What happens when Shepard can't reach the console? He goes into the light at the end of the tunnel everything after that scene never happened & is a product of Shepards deluded mind as he dies trying to create a "happy/happier" ending in which humanity in some form survives)

[Kloborgg711]

Eirileth wrote...

You can get Shepard to live. You just have to have a full Galactic Readiness. 100%. And I'm pretty sure you have to work your ass off otherwise in the game as well.

Yeah, you can get Shepard to live. Unfortunately, it's far from satisfying. You can only get him to live if you pick an option that implies a huge Geth genocide (which sucks if you went to the trouble of getting the Geth and Quarians to work together), not to mention EDI. You also still destroy the relays, and your crew is still stranded, so even if Shepard manages to somehow both survive and get to safety (virtually impossible given the situation), he'll still never see any of his crew again. Honestly, as aghast as I was at the forced sacrifice thing, I'd rather Shepard be dead then alive but away from his LI (Liara) for the rest of his life. Especially since my Shepard was motivated mainly by his LI, and he made that clear through multiple dialogue options.

I'm still very critical about this hallucination thing, but it's about the last hope we have, and I'm hoping Bioware goes along with it.

[matty_s]

primalgoose wrote...

hector7rau wrote...

laughing sherpa girl wrote...


Found this on gamefaqs iirc : yfrog.com/z/nvzxu5zj

What is this i don't even...

What respect I had left for Bioware has just plummeted to a new low...

yeaaaa i didnt think i could be dissapointed anymore today..

[Kloborgg711]

Another random thought, why is the shockwave so damn fast when Joker is outrunning it? I'm assuming Joker is in FTL, and the wave still catches up. This is contrast to when the wave is first fired. It's slow enough that you can easily see it coming during the final Earth scene, and while it looks pretty fast when it first fires, it's certainly not anywhere near light speed.

[DifferentD17]

wolverine4262 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

wolverine4262 wrote...

Jessica Merizan says she interpreted the citadel events at the end a "dying hallucination" on her twitter.

Interpreted doesn't really mean much. It's not exactly "official", as in a statement from the dev team that wrote it.

Yeah, she says in the same post that she didnt know what the devs intended. I just thought Id share it.
LINK BTW

Thank you

[VerdantSF]

mauro2222 wrote...

I was hoping for Rachni Ships. The Blood pack fighting along side the Eclipse sisters and their mechs. Some Elcor running and firing like living tanks. The volus cruiser.

All that build up with the Rachni, and the end result was 100 points for some workers?!  Ugh!

[Eirileth]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

You can get Shepard to live. You just have to have a full Galactic Readiness. 100%. And I'm pretty sure you have to work your ass off otherwise in the game as well.

Yeah, you can get Shepard to live. Unfortunately, it's far from satisfying. You can only get him to live if you pick an option that implies a huge Geth genocide (which sucks if you went to the trouble of getting the Geth and Quarians to work together), not to mention EDI. You also still destroy the relays, and your crew is still stranded, so even if Shepard manages to somehow both survive and get to safety (virtually impossible given the situation), he'll still never see any of his crew again. Honestly, as aghast as I was at the forced sacrifice thing, I'd rather Shepard be dead then alive but away from his LI (Liara) for the rest of his life. Especially since my Shepard was motivated mainly by his LI, and he made that clear through multiple dialogue options.

I'm still very critical about this hallucination thing, but it's about the last hope we have, and I'm hoping Bioware goes along with it.

You have to take into account the possibility that everything after Shepard got shot by the Reaper was a hallucination. Including Joker leaving. If this is so, then none of the crap on the Citadel really happened. We will see what BioWare has in store when they finally give us an answer.

[christrek1982]

yeh I saw the dream stuff as PTSD as well

[Annaleah]

matty_s wrote...

primalgoose wrote...

hector7rau wrote...

laughing sherpa girl wrote...


Found this on gamefaqs iirc : yfrog.com/z/nvzxu5zj

What is this i don't even...

What respect I had left for Bioware has just plummeted to a new low...

yeaaaa i didnt think i could be dissapointed anymore today..

They should just replace that entire scene with this.

[XenoAlbedo]

All these points on hallucinations seem very plausible. Hope hope hope!

[Sons Of Liberty]

I decided to make another post, I believe this video explains how I feel is adequate, harkens back to the post http://social.biowar...916/685#9756639 I made earlier, I don't want to post anymore after this, because I've said my peace and that is enough for me.



And again thank you for the ride, and eventually, all may be well in the universe....

[Bledz]

I feel like with this much publicity, there isn't really a chance they won't acknowledge this and do something.

I've seen too much on twitter, too many posts, and a few reviews that address the ending as a negative spot on the otherwise great game.

I very seriously doubt they will let this fall off.

[Rob8228]

 It's been almost 30 hours since I finished the game now, and everything is worse. I refuse to believe that is the ending, no way.

[VyRianS]

As it stands...

Total Military Readiness - 3925
Readiness Rating - 86% (based off Martyr’s dissatisfaction poll)
Effective Military Readiness - 3376

United Kingdom - 520
- UK Alliance - 400
- Scottish Fleet - 100
- Glaswegian Battalions - 20

United States of America - 760
- Oregon Engineer Section - 120
- Pittsburgh Steelers / Iron Curtain - 100
- Southwest Missouri - 50
- Southern Overwatch - 80
- Special Ops - 100
- Vermont Hippie Potheads - 50
- Pacific Northwest Hipster Battalion - 50
- Hoosier Cruiser - 20
- Maryland Vanguard Assault Unit (Raven Corps) - 80
- Michigan Medical Corps - 50
- Arizona "Geronimo" Battalion - 50
- Kansas "Battle" Chiefs - 25
- 77th PSYOP Company - 10
- SSV Pittsburgh - 25

Canada - 550
- Saskatchewan Mechanical Division – 50
- SSV Guelph – 50
- Atlantic Canadian - 140
- Edmonton Blood Dragons - 150
- Canadian Tundra Engineering Corps - 50
- Vancouver Island Covert Ops - 100
- SSV Sechelt - 10

European Union: 690
- Poland - 100
- Czech Science Crew - 50
- Czech Bio-Engineering Laboratories - 50
- SSV Orlová - 30
- Slovak Fleet - 100
- Swedish Fleet - 100
- Lone Turkish Frigate - 10
- German Fleet - 200
- German Pioneer Corps - 50

Russia - 150
- Russian Destroyers - 50
- Siberian Special Task Forces - 100

Singapore - 125
- Singapore Strike Team - 100
- SSV VyR - 25

Brazil - 520
- Brazilian Cruisers São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Brasilia - 150
- Brazilian Frigates Riachuelo - 40
- Brazilian Marines - 50
- Brazilian Jungle and Urban Commandos - 80
- Brazilian Militia - 200

Other Nations - 600
- Australia - 150
- Argentinian Fleet - 150
- Spanish & Latin Fleets - 150
- Israel Mossad Infiltration Unit - 150

Misc - 10
- Tamcia Frigate - 10 

Martyr's Dissatisfaction Poll

Google Docs Form

Facebook Group

Elaborate Hallucination Theory

Interesting Snippets about ME3

Should I start a cohesive thread to compile these links?

And to those who haven't started... VOTE!

Modifié par VyRianS, 11 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[magor1988x]

Was thinking why not these three choices:

Shepard can sacrifice himself & destroy the Reapers- We see an ending where the remaining crew survive & begin to rebuild the galaxy w/shots on where they end up

Shepard forces the other two members of his squad to make the sacrifice- they do so, but the galaxy remains changed by his choice. Say you choose Tali & Garus- For X & Y reasons the Quarian & the Geth peace doesn't last & the Krogan/Turian alliance doesn't last. Galaxy rebuilds but is still plagued by these wars. Ashley/Kaidan & EDI- Humanity struggles to rebuild after such devastating losses, they rebuild but the rest of the galaxy manages to surpass them. Etc etc... just some ideas.

Shepard finds a way to push the Reapers back for X amount of time leaving future generations to deal w/a future Reaper invasion, but he must sacrifice all Reaper tech & maybe/possibly knowledge of the Reapers themselves to do so. Most everyone survives & the galaxy rebuilds.

None of these are Disney endings. They all involve some sort of sacrifice, but they all are more emotionally satisfying than the bull that Bioware gave us.

Modifié par magor1988x, 11 mars 2012 - 04:54 .

[ReapersSniper]

Eirileth wrote...

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

You can get Shepard to live. You just have to have a full Galactic Readiness. 100%. And I'm pretty sure you have to work your ass off otherwise in the game as well.

Yeah, you can get Shepard to live. Unfortunately, it's far from satisfying. You can only get him to live if you pick an option that implies a huge Geth genocide (which sucks if you went to the trouble of getting the Geth and Quarians to work together), not to mention EDI. You also still destroy the relays, and your crew is still stranded, so even if Shepard manages to somehow both survive and get to safety (virtually impossible given the situation), he'll still never see any of his crew again. Honestly, as aghast as I was at the forced sacrifice thing, I'd rather Shepard be dead then alive but away from his LI (Liara) for the rest of his life. Especially since my Shepard was motivated mainly by his LI, and he made that clear through multiple dialogue options.

I'm still very critical about this hallucination thing, but it's about the last hope we have, and I'm hoping Bioware goes along with it.

You have to take into account the possibility that everything after Shepard got shot by the Reaper was a hallucination. Including Joker leaving. If this is so, then none of the crap on the Citadel really happened. We will see what BioWare has in store when they finally give us an answer.

Do you really think it could be a hallucination? If it is and they add the real ending as DLC ima freak!

[JPshieux]

Rob8228 wrote...

 It's been almost 30 hours since I finished the game now, and everything is worse. I refuse to believe that is the ending, no way.

I've been reading fanfiction... It numbs the feels I am feeling. :v

I shouldn't have to rely on fanfiction like this.. not like this... -weeps-

Modifié par Schirach, 11 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[Kloborgg711]

I love the overall consensus on these forums. There's such an overwhelmingly large majority that hated the ending that we're no longer even really discussing IF the ending was bad, rather we're discussing the best ways to go about fixing it, or if it's even real. You know you've got a bad ending when the playerbase starts to think it's one massive trolling campaign.

Modifié par Kloborgg711, 11 mars 2012 - 04:55 .

[NPH11]

I've honestly got no motivation to play ME3 right now. I just keep pushing it off because of this ending stuff.

Sad too, I've enjoyed what I've played so far. But I just have no motivation.

[Optimus J]

Kloborgg711 wrote...

Another random thought, why is the shockwave so damn fast when Joker is outrunning it? I'm assuming Joker is in FTL, and the wave still catches up. This is contrast to when the wave is first fired. It's slow enough that you can easily see it coming during the final Earth scene, and while it looks pretty fast when it first fires, it's certainly not anywhere near light speed.

I think Joker is running from a wave shot between Mass Relays.
Still there is the doubt, why the hell he have the people that were on London helping Shepard to reach the beam on Normandy, and why they are on a relay route?

I think Bioware have lots of DLC already wroten and they left all holes in the plot on purpose.
 TIM's Skin, Normandy travel...

[primalgoose]

I have kinda accepted the hallucination ending. I so badly wanted Shep to come out of it with their LI and friends have a happy ending. If anyone deserves it, s/he does.

[Kloborgg711]

NPH11 wrote...

I've honestly got no motivation to play ME3 right now. I just keep pushing it off because of this ending stuff.

Sad too, I've enjoyed what I've played so far. But I just have no motivation.

Man I know. If you told 15 minutes before credits rolled that I would so utterly devastated by the ending that it would ruin my enjoyment of the past 2 games, I wouldn't waste my time even considering the possibility. It was so flawless up to that point, I'm still, after 2 days, in awe that they managed to do such a quick reversal. I think someone said it earlier in this thread;

What George Lucas did to Star Wars in 3 movies, Bioware did to Mass Effect in 15 minutes.