101103 réponses à ce sujet

[Graywolf633]

American Fleet, Georgia division reporting in!

These endings were an affront to the ME universe, but I haven't completely lost faith in Bioware. Hopefully, they'll fix this problem very, very soon. The consequences of not fixing it are pretty dire, the worst of which is losing at least a couple thousand fans, including myself.

[LordHelfort]

At the rate the poll is going, we might get 20 000 votes soon! Thatll easily outstrip any other pool they've ever had on BSN!

[Aztlanna]

snekadid wrote...

People keep saying FO3 had a bad ending, I think the FO3 ending was great, its the perfect example of heroic sacrifice for the good of the world,

But the sacrifice didn't make sense. You had a giant mutant with you who could do it without being harmed. It's illogical to choose to die when you don't have to. If Fawkes had been killed prior, then your argument holds water.

[Eirileth]

Turbo_J wrote...

I posted a while back. Look for it. The 'ending', as it is only one is not any one Shep's ending. It's the jump off point to the ending.

I don't like these presented choices either, but you need to really pay attention to some things along the journey.

Go back and review the dreams - from the 2nd one on. I know you hate the kid. So do I... that's not the point. Is it out of place? Ask yourself why! Why this kid? "Why won't the voices stop talking, they never shut up, please... I have to do what is says." (ref from ME2). Listen! Not for something specific... just hear the voices.

Doc Chakwas: "Lets check that tech inside you..."

After almost getting hit with the Reaper beam... yes almost hit. Lots of rock and road rubble... suddenly you are getting up and there is none... but if you live after your 'choice' you are buried in rubble... on earth. Not a charred, frozen, smashed chunk of meat one would be from re-entry...

Infinite ammo.
No biotics
No helmet in space (area Shep was raised above the crucible dais)
Can't kill keepers.
Can't kill Anderson. I shot him when I went onto the crucible deck the fist time.
So I shot him again. 10 times. Nothing...

So I waited. Hating the ending already. I could see where it was heading, but I listened.
TIM showed up...

I let myself shoot Anderson.
I shot TIM
I told the kid/Harbi (listen to it's background voice!) to GTFO and killed Synthetics.

I woke up on Earth.

I was never on the crucible. Not after that explosion and falling back to earth. It never happened.

Shep has always been more resistant to Reaper tech indoctrination. But he/she is not impervious like we all would like to believe. How often has Shep been exposed to it? He/She has the crap inside their bodies (mostly inert.) but now the Reapers are local... when on earth, they are in Shep's face. And Shep, with all that Reaper tech throughout his/her body, is now a super indoctrination antenna.

This is not the end, but only the beginning of the ending. Go back and play it - even just the end. Pay attention. Do only what you set out to do! Kill the Reapers.

Control: You told TIM - what if you fail! We are all dead.
Merge: What is a Reaper? Synthetic/Organic hybrid.
Destroy: A test of your own selfish pride in your accomplishments. You are here for the preservation of all organic life; Not Edi or the Geth, to destroy Reapers...

I noticed all of this as well. I believe this is what BioWare may be going for, they're just keeping it a secret at the moment and not commenting one way or another. They would have been fine if EA Games hadn't stuck their nose in BioWare business. But alas, that seems to happen eventually. I sincerely hope we get the true ending, that does explain all of this as a Hallucination/Indoctrination dream soon. If we don't... I'm afraid of what will happen to this company. I fell in love with BioWare as a company because of Mass Effect. I don't want it to end this way.

[karambiatos]

MaynPayn wrote...



Personally  I think we as gamers are spoiled with happy fairytale endings which makes everything end alright and in Biowares defense they did say they were going to end the triology.

did you see an outrage at the MGS4 ending? nope, because its a great ending and wraps everything up, its a bitter sweet ending

this.... i dont even have words for what this is

[Nathos]

Aztlanna wrote...

detroitmechworks wrote...

Just wanted to point out that New Vegas was Obsidian, not Bethesda. 

I haven't always been a fan of Obsidian; they have a history of screwing up endings, too. But they did a good job with FONV.

I did not like FONV, i respect Obsidian, but NV was not near good as Fallout 1 and 2 or even FO3.

[EchoLuv]

Let me start this off by stating that Mass effect 3 was one of the best games I had ever played, for about 99% of my experience.  Before the game was even over I was gleefully imagining my next play through. Wondering what sort of DLC would come, and when. So impatient was I, to start my adept Shep, (my favoured class) that I played straight through the night, eager for the epic ending I felt coming down the pipe.

Then the ending(s) hit, and my heart broke.

I was so convinced I'd chosen the wrong path that I instantly reloaded and picked another choice only to be treated to a near identical fate.  

I can’t even explain how upset I was. More than simply reduced to tears, (though that too) I ached for the loss of my favourite game series. All my plans, my adept who I was only moments ago anticipating with bated breath was now a lead knot in my gut. I couldn’t bring myself to play her. Not just to face the same bleak fate.

I came to the BSN forum with hope that it was somehow my own mistake that had caused the awful endings. I hoped that maybe a Perfect NG+ would be available but when I finally saw it (on youtube) my sadness became rage.
A three second clip of a ravaged Shepard, moving feebly in some rumble, then cut to black.  This is my incentive for a second play through? Hundreds of hours of play in 3 games and this is my reward? I couldn’t have been more betrayed.

Now that I've had some time to analyze my feelings, and to sort through the endless stream of opinions (both for and against DLC), I’d like to share my conclusions with you all (and hopefully Bioware).

Why do these ending not work:

Let’s leave aside the obvious plot holes and play under the assumption that the crucible, the AI of the citadel, as a mechanism to achieve your ultimate goals is acceptable. (it isn’t for many, but that isn’t the point I’m trying to make.)
The problem is in the choices themselves.

Control – (supposedly) the renegade option (control the reapers)
Destroy – (supposedly) the selfish option (Kill all AI)
Synthesis – (supposedly) the paragon option (merge Tech and organic DNA)

These are false choices. Not one of these decisions reacts to the original statement made by the AI (boy-magic-ghost-thing); that organic and artificial life is doomed to war thus requiring a sacrifice to maintain order.

I call bull****.  

Chaos comes regardless of these sorts of outside motivators.  Human being wage war all the time with each other. Humans fought the Turians. The Krogan rebelled. The Batarians take slaves and wage gorilla style warfare in the terminus. Chaos is a part of life and you cannot impose perfect order upon anything that has free will.  
And that ultra-Paragon ending is the worst of the bunch.  Am I supposed to believe that because all life now shares the same basic genes that they will have no reason to fight? Give me a break. We fight each other for money, for faith, for power, for fun. We do it regardless of how similar we are and the notion that conforming to one ideal form could stop that is absurd.  

What needs to change?

There needs to be a forth option for anyone with a high enough Rep in either a Renegade of Paragon for Shep to talk the AI into stopping the reapers itself. The same cinematic sequences can be used for the destruction for the citadel and relays. This also gives the player the option to allow the underutilised Readiness rating to decide your shepards fate. If it’s high enough she can make it to the beam to get back to earth. If not, you shep dies in the resulting explosion thus giving her/his life for the cause. 

The new game plus ending could be a epilogue with a wall of text explaining what happen in the next few months, along with a non CGI cinematic (using ingame models) of the surviving team gathered around either a picture of shep or the man/woman herself raising a glass to those who didn’t make it. No need for voice overs, just that pretty tinkling music that was used for the endings we have now.
All in all I think this is doable. I wouldn’t mind playing for it, considering that some voice work would be necessary but the amount of new dialogue should be fairly small.

I feel that this solution would throw a bone the people who need some brightness for the ending, it wouldn’t replace the current endings, for those who liked them, and it would make the entire series once again re-playable for a **** ton of unhappy fans.

I realize that:
A) This is very long. Sorry.
And The likely hood of this happening is remote.

But I still think this would be a way for Bioware the make money, appease their fans, and keep people buying future DLC for this game.

Without some sort of solution I won’t be buying any dlc that is presented. There is no point to replay with no hope of survival.

tl;dr
I didn’t like the endings either. Grr Arg.

[Turbo_J]

Dolfworks wrote...

Snip

Anyone who has answers would be appreciated. Thanks.

Read my post. See what you think. Recall what you think you saw. Maybe play the end one more time and really think about what is going on. It won't change the 'ending' it will end the attempt at indoctrination... or complete it depending on you.

There's only one choice. So it can't be and ending.

[Sharrack]

Dolfworks wrote...

Okay, I forced myself to complete the "Plus" game to see what the other ending option was. I just got done and NOTHING. I don't play multiplayer and never will, I don't want to have to change my Shepard story just to conform to Bioware's decisons on your War Assets. I have 3531 in War Assets on the 2nd playthrough, I didn't get an achievment a special option ending. Does anyone know what is up with the endings on the 2nd play through. Thanks.

Has Bioware - Casey Hudson in particular - made any comments anywhere on the fan outrage over endings? I had a lot of respect for Mr. Hudson based on his interviews and comments regarding the planning of ME3. I trusted him to make it right. I am not talking about having Shepard live, my main thing is the destruction of the Mass Relays which in turn destroys how many systems and the fact all of your allies are stranded on Earth. I can't believe no one at Bioware saw these endings as good. Why would anyone replay the game(s), why would anyone bye a DLC for ME3? If they think they are going to sell us ending DLC's then they are truly indoctrinated and beyond help.

Anyone who has answers would be appreciated. Thanks.

Importing an character from ME2 seems to count as NG+ regarding the possible end scenes.

[Eirileth]

MaynPayn wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

My post was about how people generaly think everyone agrees with them beacause they seek out others who think like they do.
Also people generaly seek out forums when they have something to complain about.

Tbh I don't get how people can say a few minutes ruined hours of experiences. 

Because those few minutes DID ruin hours of experience. The endings made everything we've done in the first two games, as well as most of the third game, completely freaking meaningless. And saying that people only go to forums to complain is a crock. I use forums all the time, just for conversation. Or to RP. Or, hell, even to praise things I thought were done well. But this does not deserve praise. The endings were awful and left me feeling empty and depressed. The game was amazing up until the last five minutes when I was given the worst endings I've ever seen in this kind of game.

And playing the games was just punishment to get to the end? 
oops forgot a L in generally  which would mean I didn't mean people "ONLY" go to forums to complain, but alot of people do.

Personally  I think we as gamers are spoiled with happy fairytale endings which makes everything end alright and in Biowares defense they did say they were going to end the triology.

No, the games were amazing. Mass Effect 3's ending made what we did in the games feel utterly pointless. Try reading my full post, please. And we're not asking for a fairy tale ending. We're asking for an ending that makes sense.

[Brandonhc]

Dolfworks wrote...

Okay, I forced myself to complete the "Plus" game to see what the other ending option was. I just got done and NOTHING. I don't play multiplayer and never will, I don't want to have to change my Shepard story just to conform to Bioware's decisons on your War Assets. I have 3531 in War Assets on the 2nd playthrough, I didn't get an achievment a special option ending. Does anyone know what is up with the endings on the 2nd play through. Thanks.

Has Bioware - Casey Hudson in particular - made any comments anywhere on the fan outrage over endings? I had a lot of respect for Mr. Hudson based on his interviews and comments regarding the planning of ME3. I trusted him to make it right. I am not talking about having Shepard live, my main thing is the destruction of the Mass Relays which in turn destroys how many systems and the fact all of your allies are stranded on Earth. I can't believe no one at Bioware saw these endings as good. Why would anyone replay the game(s), why would anyone bye a DLC for ME3? If they think they are going to sell us ending DLC's then they are truly indoctrinated and beyond help.

Anyone who has answers would be appreciated. Thanks.

The "Secret ending" Is just Shepard maybe being alive in a extra 5 second clip. There has been a comment from Michael Gamble that he atleast is reading and aware of what we are saying but can't comment yet.

[Sterenn]

MaynPayn wrote...

Personally  I think we as gamers are spoiled with happy fairytale endings which makes everything end alright and in Biowares defense they did say they were going to end the triology.

Everything couldn't end alright. You lose inevitably a certain amount of people. The end can be happy anyway. Bittersweet but with hope. 

Modifié par Sterenn, 11 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Tyranniac]

Get the thread back on target again, people! Too much infighting, conspiracy theories and off-topic stuff.

Stay focused and we can do this.

[Aramina]

It depresses me that calling the whole end a hallucination actually makes it better. I might almost want to play it again if I keep telling myself this.

This is like Star Trek: Enterprise in reverse.

[Amratis]

The ending to ME3 is like the end of Star Trek Voyager - confusing, rubbish and very short.

What we should have got is something like the end of Star Trek DS9 - sad but in a good way, and satisfying - getting to see how everyone moves on with their lives. The time was taken to show us how the characters we loved chose to live.

What we've gotten is poorly thought out rubbish like Voyager.

[QwibQwib]

EchoLuv wrote...

Let me start this off by stating that Mass effect 3 was one of the best games I had ever played, for about 99% of my experience.  Before the game was even over I was gleefully imagining my next play through. Wondering what sort of DLC would come, and when. So impatient was I, to start my adept Shep, (my favoured class) that I played straight through the night, eager for the epic ending I felt coming down the pipe.

Then the ending(s) hit, and my heart broke.

I was so convinced I'd chosen the wrong path that I instantly reloaded and picked another choice only to be treated to a near identical fate.  

I can’t even explain how upset I was. More than simply reduced to tears, (though that too) I ached for the loss of my favourite game series. All my plans, my adept who I was only moments ago anticipating with bated breath was now a lead knot in my gut. I couldn’t bring myself to play her. Not just to face the same bleak fate.

I came to the BSN forum with hope that it was somehow my own mistake that had caused the awful endings. I hoped that maybe a Perfect NG+ would be available but when I finally saw it (on youtube) my sadness became rage.
A three second clip of a ravaged Shepard, moving feebly in some rumble, then cut to black.  This is my incentive for a second play through? Hundreds of hours of play in 3 games and this is my reward? I couldn’t have been more betrayed.

Now that I've had some time to analyze my feelings, and to sort through the endless stream of opinions (both for and against DLC), I’d like to share my conclusions with you all (and hopefully Bioware).

Why do these ending not work:

Let’s leave aside the obvious plot holes and play under the assumption that the crucible, the AI of the citadel, as a mechanism to achieve your ultimate goals is acceptable. (it isn’t for many, but that isn’t the point I’m trying to make.)
The problem is in the choices themselves.

Control – (supposedly) the renegade option (control the reapers)
Destroy – (supposedly) the selfish option (Kill all AI)
Synthesis – (supposedly) the paragon option (merge Tech and organic DNA)

These are false choices. Not one of these decisions reacts to the original statement made by the AI (boy-magic-ghost-thing); that organic and artificial life is doomed to war thus requiring a sacrifice to maintain order.

I call bull****.  

Chaos comes regardless of these sorts of outside motivators.  Human being wage war all the time with each other. Humans fought the Turians. The Krogan rebelled. The Batarians take slaves and wage gorilla style warfare in the terminus. Chaos is a part of life and you cannot impose perfect order upon anything that has free will.  
And that ultra-Paragon ending is the worst of the bunch.  Am I supposed to believe that because all life now shares the same basic genes that they will have no reason to fight? Give me a break. We fight each other for money, for faith, for power, for fun. We do it regardless of how similar we are and the notion that conforming to one ideal form could stop that is absurd.  

What needs to change?

There needs to be a forth option for anyone with a high enough Rep in either a Renegade of Paragon for Shep to talk the AI into stopping the reapers itself. The same cinematic sequences can be used for the destruction for the citadel and relays. This also gives the player the option to allow the underutilised Readiness rating to decide your shepards fate. If it’s high enough she can make it to the beam to get back to earth. If not, you shep dies in the resulting explosion thus giving her/his life for the cause. 

The new game plus ending could be a epilogue with a wall of text explaining what happen in the next few months, along with a non CGI cinematic (using ingame models) of the surviving team gathered around either a picture of shep or the man/woman herself raising a glass to those who didn’t make it. No need for voice overs, just that pretty tinkling music that was used for the endings we have now.
All in all I think this is doable. I wouldn’t mind playing for it, considering that some voice work would be necessary but the amount of new dialogue should be fairly small.

I feel that this solution would throw a bone the people who need some brightness for the ending, it wouldn’t replace the current endings, for those who liked them, and it would make the entire series once again re-playable for a **** ton of unhappy fans.

I realize that:
A) This is very long. Sorry.
And The likely hood of this happening is remote.

But I still think this would be a way for Bioware the make money, appease their fans, and keep people buying future DLC for this game.

Without some sort of solution I won’t be buying any dlc that is presented. There is no point to replay with no hope of survival.

tl;dr
I didn’t like the endings either. Grr Arg.

Can you link me the NG+ ending? please.

[I RJay I]

OK, it seems everyone is on board with the hallucination thing, and so am I. But I'm still annoyed that we actually aren't told what happened to the majority of our crew, only the people on the Normandy. What about people like Vega, Wrex, Grunt, Liara, Garrus... people who weren't on the Normandy?

And what was the scene in the end, with the old guy talking to the kid... The kid calls him "The Shepard" and the old man says 'story' as if it wasn't even real. Was the ME series just this old guy making up a story to tell the little kid before his bed time? Or was it sometime in the future, and the old guy teaching the kid history about Shepard?

I feel there are too many unanswered questions.

[Exyia]

 I am SO glad I have a 2 seperate saves

1 before the Cerberus assault to see the love interest cut scene
1 before the final conversation with companions

I now can just reload and experience them whenever I want, without having to play through that terrible ending, or trying to experience it on youtube with someone else's Shepard

[MaynPayn]

snekadid wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

My post was about how people generaly think everyone agrees with them beacause they seek out others who think like they do.
Also people generaly seek out forums when they have something to complain about.

Tbh I don't get how people can say a few minutes ruined hours of experiences. 

Lets say you spent 5 years building a skyscrapper, the most perfect skyscraper ever. while building it you got attatched to your employees, became friends, had parties. then, when its all done and your turning on the power, the whole thing blows up killing your employees and burning the work of 5 years to the ground. I dont know about you but i think by that point id rather not have even started building it.

But your employees didn't die they got away to a mysterious island and if you hadn't built that skyscrapper you you wouldn't have gotten to know your employees, you wouldn't have become their friends or been to their parties and you wouldn't have saved the entire city.

[Aramina]

Amratis wrote...

The ending to ME3 is like the end of Star Trek Voyager - confusing, rubbish and very short.

What we should have got is something like the end of Star Trek DS9 - sad but in a good way, and satisfying - getting to see how everyone moves on with their lives. The time was taken to show us how the characters we loved chose to live.

What we've gotten is poorly thought out rubbish like Voyager.

Now that is just creepy...two posts about Star Trek right next to each other Get out of my head Reapers!

On another note, I happened to like the Voyager series. But I'm a sucker for strong female leads.

[Aztlanna]

Well... I think the Princess Bride thing is to sell DLCs. Basically, all this stuff happened so long ago, it's just stories now, and you don't know what's real and what's made up. We're supposed to happily buy the DLCs to add to the legend. (This reminds me of DA2.) Don't think about the ending! Just buy more DLCs and play Shepard! Look, shiny!

[MrPuschel]

karambiatos wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...



Personally  I think we as gamers are spoiled with happy fairytale endings which makes everything end alright and in Biowares defense they did say they were going to end the triology.

did you see an outrage at the MGS4 ending? nope, because its a great ending and wraps everything up, its a bitter sweet ending

this.... i dont even have words for what this is

The MGS4 Ending was a great end for a long series. However, i really expected something else. I always saw the reapers as very own "race" with theyr own culture and history same as the geth. I'm aware that Bioware has sure talented writers and that they're NOT responsible for creating an ending for me personally that fit my personal tastes. But what MAss Effect actually call an ending is very, very weak.

Even for the standards of an bad anime movie. Sure the space  combat renderings are epic, but i would sacrifice them for 15 Minutes of in-game dialouqe with the harbinger, the illusive man, crew members or an Resumé.

[Turbo_J]

Eirileth wrote...

I noticed all of this as well. I believe this is what BioWare may be going for, they're just keeping it a secret at the moment and not commenting one way or another. They would have been fine if EA Games hadn't stuck their nose in BioWare business. But alas, that seems to happen eventually. I sincerely hope we get the true ending, that does explain all of this as a Hallucination/Indoctrination dream soon. If we don't... I'm afraid of what will happen to this company. I fell in love with BioWare as a company because of Mass Effect. I don't want it to end this way.

Why do you think Mike said 'hardest day ever...' People want to be spoiled. This game is true RPG magic, but people get destracted by the combat and relationships... That's great! Me too. BUT!!! You are not good soldiers! STAY FOCUSED! WHY ARE YOU HERE? What is your task? PAY Attention! The Enemy and it's tactics are truly unknowable... and you are doomed if you let up on any front for even a second!

Psycho/Psycologist Kelly would have saved us all had she joined the ship. Maybe...

[Amratis]

Aramina wrote...

Amratis wrote...

The ending to ME3 is like the end of Star Trek Voyager - confusing, rubbish and very short.

What we should have got is something like the end of Star Trek DS9 - sad but in a good way, and satisfying - getting to see how everyone moves on with their lives. The time was taken to show us how the characters we loved chose to live.

What we've gotten is poorly thought out rubbish like Voyager.

Now that is just creepy...two posts about Star Trek right next to each other Get out of my head Reapers!

On another note, I happened to like the Voyager series. But I'm a sucker for strong female leads.

Wow, I didn't see your post about Enterprise til now 

And I also liked Voyager a lot too, Janeway rocks. I just thought the ending of Voyager was terrible. (Horrible OT sorry)