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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#21551
Kloborgg711

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ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


What...

OK, first of all, it's more than safe to assume that there are a helluva lot more people pissed at the endings than the ones who were pissed, got on to BSN, registered an account, waited 24 hours, and started posting.
Second of all, not everyone finished the game, or even bought it yet.
Third, 10% is a ridiculously huge portion of a playerbase to outright ignore.

I myself am convinced that the majority of players who finish/ed Mass Effect 3 are/will be disappointed with the ending.


If you think EA would ever say to themselves 
"Oh, we only alienated 30% of our players. Big deal"
You really don't understand business.

Modifié par Kloborgg711, 12 mars 2012 - 11:31 .


#21552
Fox544

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Spoke with a friend who has played every single Bioware game and he made a couple of points.

1) It sounds like they're gonna pull a KoTOR and have an ME4 that starts you out as a squadmate and the planet will just so happen to be home to the creators or something.

2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.

3) If there is a new ending it might come in the form of Omega DLC since the campaign hyped it so much but with no conclusion.

I would be behind #1 if confirmed and done correctly or #3. I think #2 is probably accurate as some kind of teaser.

#21553
Matt_gekko88

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Also quite fitting, isn't it?

Modifié par Matt_gekko88, 12 mars 2012 - 11:31 .


#21554
ColloquialAnachron

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ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


This is a fair point but as has been said, that is the number of known people here who are dissatisfied.  The real number (by standard "city hall/government" measurements) is usually 10x the number of people willing to vocalise anger.  That's likely different for the internet but the number is assuredly larger than what is shown here.  And let's be realistic too, 30k angry people in the most pragmatic sense is 1.8 million dollars of possible lost future income.  (That presumes a 60 dolalr value per unit, not the $40 ME3 is currently sitting at on Amazon.com). 
  
So if we assume that EA and Bioware want to make money and continue to make money, it would be in their best interest to address this situation.  Those who like things as they are won't care either way.  Those who don't want the addition of new/better/alternative endings are in a strong minority and are unlikely to take their business elsewhere en masse if such a thing happens. 

And honestly, whether we are a large number or not is at this point not an issue.  The issue is that enough people that I'll call "fans" (though Gamble might want to classify you all based on which edition you purchased), are upset and demanding to be addressed.  Bioware has constantly and consistently claimed they listen to their fans.  If Bioware can say that a concern of at least 30k fans is not worth addressing, then they cannot truly continue to say they listen.  I also promise that less than 30k people were this upset and involved when Deception was flung on to shelves.

#21555
Mikrin

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Fox544 wrote...

Spoke with a friend who has played every single Bioware game and he made a couple of points.

1) It sounds like they're gonna pull a KoTOR and have an ME4 that starts you out as a squadmate and the planet will just so happen to be home to the creators or something.

2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.

3) If there is a new ending it might come in the form of Omega DLC since the campaign hyped it so much but with no conclusion.

I would be behind #1 if confirmed and done correctly or #3. I think #2 is probably accurate as some kind of teaser.


Quick thing: What if you palyed a femshep? #2 would be a bit weird then.

#21556
wook77

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ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


Because that 3% also buys a predominant amount of the DLC, the gear and the merchandise. George Lucas didn't make his billions from the movies. He made his billions from merchandising. Merchandising is much cheaper than creating a new video game and much much more profitable.

You appease your core audience because they're the ones buying the items that you have a higher profit margin on. It's fairly simple economics. What they lose in creating the new ends or releasing it/them for free, they would make up in by the number of items these core audience members would purchase.

On my end, I already cancelled my SWTOR collectors edition, the N7 hoodie and told friends about the endings. In just one weekend, I kept 5 people from buying the game. Not all that much but now imagine each of those 3% doing similar or even more. How much money would they lose? Enough that the stockmarket thinks EA isn't quite worth as much as it had been and their shares are dropping in price.

Remember - that 3% is just the vocal ones, the ones that sought out ways to lodge their dissatisfaction with the product and the manufacturer. There are more that aren't as vocal. My brother being one of them. He got to the end and went "welp, not doing any more of this series".

There's an old standard of customer service - a satisfied customer tells one to three people about their experience and a dissatisfied customer tells at least nine people. We're just 3% on here but I'm quite certain that we're all telling friends and family about the dissatisfactory gaming experience. That's 30,000 people telling at least 9 people each. You do the math.

#21557
Renoskunk

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I've been reading this thread since I finished the game Friday night, I stayed up till 4am just reading how everyone was feeling like I was...Empty and with a feeling of things left unfinished. And thats just it, from a game designers standpoint this ending is completely unfinished. It is buggy, cut up and completely lacks the tone of the rest of the game. So now I'm going to use my 60,000 dollar degree in Video Game Design and review the ending but only on a few points I don't want to take an entire page just for one post or anything.

BUGS: This is suppost to be a finished product once it hits the shelves of the stores, minor to no bugs that will break the game. But on my playthroughs and from reading numberous posts on here and other sites, the ending mission on Earth is riddled with bugs that cause your system(PC, XBOX, PS3) to crash or freeze. The cinematics not starting and leaving you with either a blackscreen or allow you to run around with Shepard while the sound of the cinematic playing in the background. This happened to me after I shot the Ellusive Man, I walked forward as I heard that they were bringing in the Crucible. I thought, "Wow I get a front row view of this massive weapon attach itself to the Citidel? Awesome!" But no, I just fell through the world and falling in the Citidel till the game forces me to the menu and reload the mission. These may be just annoying bugs that fix themselves when reloaded, but this shows that the ending was rushed, untested (So most likely unviewed by a focus group) and just forced out by EA. Which is sad, I would gladly have waited till later to play the completed game and get the ending that was complete.

Inconsistencies: I don't think I need to touch much on this topic, we all have read in the thread about the Dark Matter part of the game being scrapped, and how the Citidel God-child's logic is so circular you could fit the citidel through it. But I'm talking about the ending, when your crew gets off the ship on the unknown planet, in my playthrough I brought my LI along to take back Earth, so Tali died with the Reaper beam. But She, Garrus and Joker all get off the ship. This too has been brought up many times and it just screams that is just a dream. Or something similar. But on the off chance it's not, then there is something in the programming that sets a random, or seemingly random 2 group members to come out of the ship with Joker. Maybe it is set by how much you talked to them, or just your LI is always getting of the ship. No one would take their LI into the final battle right? Yea...no. So it is possible that the coders got rushed, I keep hoping that this is what happened, cause if they ment for the to occur then they just got Lazy. (Just like Tali's photo.) But I hope laziness isn't the case.

Speaking of Laziness, the cinematic when you first show up to the battle for Earth and Joker is reading off the list of allies that have come to help. This could have been so much better, but they would have to make the movie longer to do this. Where are all the extra alien ships and armies that I recruited throughout the game? The bloodpack to charge ahead and take on enemy fire while the tanks moved ahead, the Elkor's "Tanks" that I was promissed for saving their civellians? The mechs from the Eclipse and special forces from the blue suns? Or even the kindof all out firefights in the street like in the take back Earth commercials? They drop the ball on what the climax of this game could have been. Having less is not always more. And I know there are other battles going on, as shown when you talk with Jack, Grunt or James. But that still leaves all the Alien forces you aquired, making it feel like the humans are still in this fight alone. Which the entire game is all about, getting help! Again, could be that they were forced to rush it out, but a little less likely here.

Choices: What happened to Mass Effect 2's choices when it came down to splitting up the tanks in the final push? I was expecting to have to pick 2 for myself and leave the rest to gaurd the other tanks, and depending on how large of an army I gathered how many of my squad would die. Before the game came out we were told that we might not be able to save everyone, but acording to the ending I did. I was expecting hard choices that if I didn't do something right I might be the only one making the last charge, or last stand on Earth before I was over run. I went through the game thinking I would be loosing squad members left and right if I messed up. But besides Mordin and Thane dieing, it was almost all sunshine and rainbows for me. I was ending a thousand year grudge between 2 bitter enemies, bringing peace to a 300 year war between machines and their creators (which snips the balls off of the God-child's theory right off) and amassing an army that the Galaxy has never seen! Where are my choices of who to send were? I'm Comander Shepard, Comander, I comand things. Let me assign a squad member to a group of soldiers and if I make a bad choice, like sending Tali off with the Bloodpack. They get slaughtered; or if I send say, Grunt, with them they tear the enemies to shreds. For a game about choices, the last section of the game was extremely lacking in them.

Conclusion: For me 90% of this game was completed and just what I expect from Bioware. An amazing game that plays smooth and fits with the theme they place on the game. And Mass Effect 3 excelled at this very idea, till that last 10%. It didn't feel like the same team that worked on the rest of the game, like the outsourced it to a 3rd party developer or something. What happened? I know from experience that when you are finishing a game you are usually up almost every night, sometimes not even sleeping to get everything done perfectly and fix every bug that you can. But still this seems like it was just part of the ending, missions and all. In ME2 we had several missions within the Collector's ship. The hacking pipes, the bugs, then the floating stages to the Human Reaper(I feel like I'm missing one, let me know if I am). But with ME3 we have, get the radio working, protect the tanks and shoot the Reaper. Through all of those we kept the same team, even though the whole crew was on the planet with us. From a designers point of view I see the ending as a mess that was rushed by EA to meet a deadline that shouldn't have been there. But I hope against hope that Bioware will come through with a patch or free DLC that will show how great of a game company they really are.  Here is my fingers crossed and a bow to a wonderful game....till the last mission. 

~Keelah se'lai

#21558
Bacusan

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Heck this post moves up like crazy! last time i read this stuff there was a War Asset thingy being gathered.
So like the slowpoke I am

+1 Argentinian War Asset!

#21559
primalgoose

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Matt_gekko88 wrote...

primalgoose wrote...

Anyone happen to have the link to the image of the similarities between ME3's ending and the antispiral (the one with Tali's photo and junk)

Friend of mine just finished the game and just told me "I don't think I've ever been this disappointed with an ending "


I hope this works.


Tyvm!
:)

#21560
TamiBx

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Jesta79-X wrote...

Even Mass Effect facebook pages are starting to get the back lash when they post something.

Surprised they didn't see this was gonna happen.


I went there to see what you were talking about...I can't stop laughing...everything they post, there is at least one comment "fix the ending" or "I am Commander Shepard and this was the worst ending on the Citadel" :lol:

#21561
babachewie

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Stakis wrote...

ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


if anything were a sample, ever heard of polls ? we represent what most of the fanbase tought of the endings, EA / Bioware would be fools if they didnt realize that most people, vocal or not in the forums, are not happy, and unhappy customers is very bad for future business .


Not really. Most people who are happy about it probably dont care if people hate it and don't care about taking a poll to prove it. They are satisfied and thats why they wont change the ending. If they did then they would be pissing off a whole other group that will start the same crap you guys are doin. 

Modifié par babachewie, 12 mars 2012 - 11:35 .


#21562
ARCTIC EAGLE

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Kloborgg711 wrote...

ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


What...

OK, first of all, it's more than safe to assume that there are a helluva lot more people pissed at the endings than the ones who were pissed, got on to BSN, registered an account, waited 24 hours, and started posting.
Second of all, not everyone finished the game, or even bought it yet.
Third, 10% is a ridiculously huge portion of a playerbase to outright ignore.

I myself am convinced that the majority of players who finish/ed Mass Effect 3 are/will be disappointed with the ending.


If you think EA would ever say to themselves 
"Oh, we only alienated 30% of our players. Big deal"
You really don't understand business.

you read my most recent post? Its probably EA calling the shots and when do they care about customers? Look at the people pissed over day 1 DLC, or DRM they were sued over that I mean come on you really think EA cares about 10% 

#21563
Kloborgg711

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Fox544 wrote...


2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.


"Hello, my sweet. Allow me to tell you a tale of how awesome I was. I'll start with the part where I chased this m**f**er Saren across the galaxy so I could convince him to committ suicide. Later we can talk about all the alien species I fornicated with. Maybe I'll even throw in some drinking, or a murder here or there. The important part that you have to remember is that I'm awesome and the galaxy would be doomed on several occasions without me"

#21564
J5550123

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babachewie wrote...

Stakis wrote...

ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


if anything were a sample, ever heard of polls ? we represent what most of the fanbase tought of the endings, EA / Bioware would be fools if they didnt realize that most people, vocal or not in the forums, are not happy, and unhappy customers is very bad for future business .


Not really. Most people who are happy about it probably dont care if people hate it and don't care about taking a poll to prove it. They are satisfied and thats why they wont change the ending. If they did thhen they would bt pissing off a whole other group that will start the same crap you guys are doin. 


Well it seems like we mostly want more endings, not necessarily to get rid of the other ones.

#21565
KaiserinKai

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karambiatos wrote...

ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?


when they want to make a new show, do they show it to milions of people?
when they elect a new president do they go to everyone and make them vote?
when they do anykind of survey they dont ask every single person now do they.


yes i do see the flaws there, im just too lazy to type a wall of text about it


Exactly, I remember earlier in the thread multible people mentioning friends who were more casually into the
ME series. They mentioned that those friends weren't even bothering with complaining on and returned their games.

Looking at the current selling prices tells all. People who aren't as die hard as us are just returning the games, not coming here to protest.

#21566
panamakira

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Ugh~ Somebody being too sensitive to me in the "General Discussion" section because they claim my sig is giving spoilers. So yeah I guess is "discourteous" to post anywhere outside of the Spoiler forums because of my wanting to voice my opinion of the endings in my sig. I don't go around telling people spoilers though. Sheesh~

Whatever...

Modifié par panamakira, 12 mars 2012 - 11:36 .


#21567
Darkwingduck

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Kloborgg711 wrote...

Fox544 wrote...


2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.


"Hello, my sweet. Allow me to tell you a tale of how awesome I was. I'll start with the part where I chased this m**f**er Saren across the galaxy so I could convince him to committ suicide. Later we can talk about all the alien species I fornicated with. Maybe I'll even throw in some drinking, or a murder here or there. The important part that you have to remember is that I'm awesome and the galaxy would be doomed on several occasions without me"


Grandfather of the year, easily. Or just Renegade Shep acting out.

#21568
zarnk567

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 Just here to throw in my support for different endings, the games were a great journey one that i enjoyed very much..... That being said, the destination completly ruined the Journey. I now have no want to play Mass Effect 1,2, or 3. Since no matter what decisions we make throughout the previous games or current game Shepard failes no matter what.


P.S      Most of us did not want a "happy end" just and ending that made sense and fit with the rest of the story. :(

#21569
Durham Dave

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One of many of the silent, I actually care strongly enough to post for once. They did very well in engaging me, and I really cared. Getting in and taking on TIM and the Reapers, for the trillions and Mordin and Thane. Then....

Nonsense from nowhere, no real choice or closure. I hope that this isn't it, that this is some pause as the game rolls out so people get a chance at the ending together. If so, nice twist, but please don't do it again, my emotions can't take much more.

If that is it. Yeah, it just killed all replay value.

Keelah'selai. For the ending we hope to see one day.

#21570
Kloborgg711

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ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...


Its probably EA calling the shots and when do they care about customers?  ...   you really think EA cares about 10% 


Since they cared about money. Just because the people at the top EA may not care about us individually, doesn't mean they don't care about losing 10% of their customers. I still don't think you fully grasp how significant 10% is in this context.

#21571
Veryth

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Darkwingduck wrote...

Ivon wrote...

Computim wrote...

Chatboy 91 wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

By the way: http://twitter.com/#...307366397902848


Wait, WHAT?


Poor Bioware staff.. so young.. and already indoctrinated :(


Screw the RP crap. This is a very bad thing. You DO NOT MAKE FUN OF YOUR CUSTOMERS TO THEIR FACES. 
NEVER, NEVER, EVER. First thing they tell you in any Customer Interaction job.


Unrelated but the last unicorn is an amazing movie. 


Heroes know that things must happen when it is time for them to happen. A quest may not simply be abandoned; unicorns may go unrescued for a long time, but not forever. A happy ending cannot come in the middle of the story. 

Modifié par Veryth, 12 mars 2012 - 11:36 .


#21572
TamiBx

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Kloborgg711 wrote...

Fox544 wrote...


2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.


"Hello, my sweet. Allow me to tell you a tale of how awesome I was. I'll start with the part where I chased this m**f**er Saren across the galaxy so I could convince him to committ suicide. Later we can talk about all the alien species I fornicated with. Maybe I'll even throw in some drinking, or a murder here or there. The important part that you have to remember is that I'm awesome and the galaxy would be doomed on several occasions without me"



Renegade bada** Shepard FTW!!! :devil:

this made me lol. 

#21573
Computim

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Fulerene wrote...

Computim wrote...

beyondsolo wrote...

To be honest, the gaming media can call us whatever they want. If a few "journalists" happen to think that their opinion is in some way better than that of ~30,000 concerned players, then let them.

In some way I'm sad to see that the reaction to the endings is having financial impact. I'd rather BioWare would come to listen out of genuine interest in the opinion of their fans (sounds naive, I know) rather than in response to the pressure caused by price decay of their product and EA's fuming about shrinking profit margins. It's a shame it always reverts to that...


It's not just 30,000.  It's 30,000 who were upset enough to get off their butts, come to bioware's site, find the poll,  and say something.. First rule of PR and customer service are there are 10 times as many people who don't like something as those who don't like something and complain about it..  These people not only complained, but they actually had to FIND where TO complain.. another hurdle that would remove people.

So assuming we have 300,000, of the 1.5 million so far.. that's 20%, 3 million, that's 10% ... it's not a small minority, and being as most of them are people who have accounts loaded down with other titles registered it's a loyal minority of the STUDIO fans.. this goes beyond one franchise, they have the ability to alienate or provide an olive branch here.

Take your choice Bioware.  Paragon, or Renegade.  (I would die laughing if a Mod replied to this by shooting me haha <3)


I never visit gaming forums. After the credits started rolling, I felt compelled to look online to see if anyone else felt the same disbelief I did. My first visit and post to the Bioware forums was to express how let down I was by the conclusion to my favorite series ever. And I have been following this thread for the past day.

If someone like me is going through this kind of effort, that is a BAD sign. Heck, I had to go back and forth a few times through profile settings to dig up product keys just to post!


Yeah I'm not one of the usual activist personalities haha.  I'm usually either A) too apathetic or B) wondering if people have ever worked a day in a code developer role (I do it by occupation).  I completely understand and support the zero-day DLC being on disc even.  The game was pushed out 4 months, and they're trying to recoup some of that, it's expensive paying salaries.  However if a product isn't done, I don't try to slap something together at the last minute and call it finished.. Especially if my project was as polished and incredible as the 99.5% of the first part of Mass Effect 3 was.  I'd say "Give us a month"... or even a week.. I honestly suspect there was a citadel mission missing due to time constraints, I suspect the cutscenes at the end were pieced together from ones they had because they didn't fit without the missing content in other areas, and I suspect they made something up to fill in the gaps.. something that really didn't, and shows.

#21574
karambiatos

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ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

you read my most recent post? Its probably EA calling the shots and when do they care about customers? Look at the people pissed over day 1 DLC, or DRM they were sued over that I mean come on you really think EA cares about 10% 


well they did care when people said they were going to boycott BF3 because of the preorder shenanigans, EA is pretty bad, but sometimes they surprise you, just hope it doesnt rain on the day they make a decision

and that was a lot less vocal than this

Modifié par karambiatos, 12 mars 2012 - 11:41 .


#21575
Fox544

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Mikrin wrote...

Fox544 wrote...

Spoke with a friend who has played every single Bioware game and he made a couple of points.

1) It sounds like they're gonna pull a KoTOR and have an ME4 that starts you out as a squadmate and the planet will just so happen to be home to the creators or something.

2) The grandfather and child is probably Shepard and his child.

3) If there is a new ending it might come in the form of Omega DLC since the campaign hyped it so much but with no conclusion.

I would be behind #1 if confirmed and done correctly or #3. I think #2 is probably accurate as some kind of teaser.


Quick thing: What if you palyed a femshep? #2 would be a bit weird then.


The other guess was it was Joker and his kid. But that one maybe less likely considering breeding choices would 1 be slim and 2 maybe crippleing.

Though those 2 are there for a reason other than making people furious. Knowing Bioware those 2 are some kind of hint or mystery to the game. Somehow this old timer know everything about you (Considering he knows what moral choices and who you were porking) but is in no way connected to you?