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So we can't get the ending we want after all?


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#21801
TamiBx

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Stakis wrote...

PhoenixDove1 wrote...

I liked KOTOR, DAO and ME because they aren't mp or mmo. What's with the h**d*n for mp and mmo lately? It's seems as if all their games are going that way. Don't get me wrong they pulled of TOR better than any other mmo but I didn't want mmo to begin with and I sure don't want mp DLC :( for ME3, even if the ending had been awesome.


Apparently Dr Greg believes thats the future of gaming, i strongly disagree,  but thats my opinion.


Unless they make Microsoft provide full online service...nope, that's not going to happen. A lot of Xbox players are not going to pay for the game and Gold just for one game. Plus I like to pay a one time fee and be able to enjoy the whole thing(even if it's not that cheap). Like when we go to amusement parks; instead of paying for every single ride, I like to pay one admission fee. 

#21802
aMytallica

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I have been scrolling through this thread, and others, taking in both sides of the argument, and reminding myself of past events, and while originally upset with the ending, I've changed my mind.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still heartbroken. I'm mourning the end of Shepard’s story, the characters that I love, and the Mass Effect universe as we knew it. I didn't realise, til the end, just how much I was emotionally invested into this series. I've never experienced anything like it. And judging by the strong reaction here, everyone feels the same. But I'm now trying to think logically. I would have loved the definite closure. Seeing Shepard reunite with her crew, her LI, just to know exactly where my Shepard ended up. So I'm still sad at the ending, but I think I understand it now. It's a wall of text, I know, but I just need to air this out... for myself if nothing else!

Looking back it seems inevitable that there would only be three choices. Destroying them by conventional means was never a possibility. This was made clear repeatedly througouth the series. There simply wasn't enough firepower to match them. The only solution was the catalyst. To destroy the Reapers via the catalyst was to destroy their technology. I hadn’t considered this at all. But this tech (the Citadel and relays) were there to help them repeat the cycle of destruction. This was their function. Organic life has never developed along a natural path on its own. They were guided. Their futures decided. So the destruction of the Citadel and the mass relays, in hindsight, seems obvious now. Destroy the reapers, along with all traces of their existence.
 
The past two games were hinting at our choices. Saren believed our salvation was synthesis. Illusive Man believed it was in controlling them. But the only true solution was in destroying them. The catalyst told Shepard that, being part synthetic, this choice would kill her too. But it was a lie. It wanted Shepard to choose the other two options because then they would win. But Shepard does survive. Shepard saves her friends, the person that she loves, Earth and all survivors of the war. That's a victory. The reapers have lost.

The catalyst couldn't have destroyed the systems when it wiped out the relays, because Earth was saved. Everyone there is fine (evident by the scene at the end of the credits), and life continued. So while the military of various races would be stuck in the Sol System, it stands to reason that, like Earth, the other planets of other races still had survivors of the reaper attacks also (Wrex for example mentions that Eve is safe on Tuchunka, and is pregnant!). They also know of Shepard’s story, and they too would eventually rebuild and flourish as well.

Another thing to consider. As i was, a lot of people are wondering where the hell the Normandy ends up. My thoughts now: It doesn’t make sense that the Normandy is in another system in some random jungle. The Normandy was in the battle above Earth. It must have simply been outrunning the wave. With the relays destroyed, how could they be anywhere else? The link to other systems is gone. So, I like to think that it crashed landed on Earth somewhere untouched by reapers. It’s a remote location. With no populace there, what reason would the reapers have had to destroy that? They are there to harvest people. Not destroy planets. That parting image was one of hope.

All of Shepard’s exploits weren't for nothing. Shepard left her mark throughout the entire galaxy. Everyone knows Shepard’s name. Shepard united an entire galaxy to save it. A huge feat in of itself, but Shepard also helped in so many other ways. Shepard helped the quarians regain their home world; helped cure the Genophage for the krogans. Shepard left peace and hope for everyone. But it was not without heavy cost. Losing the relays is devastating. The non-human races are cut-off from their home worlds. But with the Citadel in the Sol System, even if they hadn’t pledged help to Earth prior, for the sake of the galaxy, it was where they needed to be in the end regardless. There was always going to a heavy price for victory. I’m sure they would be comforted at least knowing that their home worlds and people are finally safe. Now all organic life can grow on its own. Any one that survived would know what they have lost, and the mistakes they have made, but they would also have the knowledge to begin rebuilding. Learning space travel all over again with their own technology. Over time, I'm sure it will be as it was. But this time free of the reapers.

As for Shepard. Shepard woke up in a chunk of Citadel debris that would have I imagine been floating above Earth somewhere. I like to think that she found a way to get out/alert anyone that could help her/him. Everyone, including the crew, would eventually have heard of Shepard’s miraculous survival, and Shepard could finally have her happy ending.
 
Anyhoo, maybe I've missed things, but it’s just my interpretation and its made me feel better :)

#21803
KHReborn

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look at this twitter conversation with Chris:

---

@BioEvilChris Would it be too much if I asked you something since you work at BioWare? It's not ****ing about ME3.

@KenRaves Shoot, I may not be able to answer, but I'll try.


@BioEvilChris
During the final run, just before the end, are the two squadmates with
you killed? I understand if you can't answer.

@KenRaves I don't think we've revealed that yet. Sorry.

@BioEvilChris
Totally fine, sir, thanks for your time! Also, I was 95% satisfied with
the game - sorry 'bout the flak on the forums I saw.

---

Sounds like, something will be revealed.

edit: source: twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/179051973658685440

Modifié par KHReborn, 13 mars 2012 - 12:49 .


#21804
The Big Palooka

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Xion66 wrote...

What makes me sad, is that the few tidbits of info we got from the developer' side has been of sadness and feeling offended at us trying to take their baby from them.

I wish they could see, that we are here not because we hate bioware or the team that made ME3, we are here because we love the work and the universe they built, we value these games as much or more than our favourite books, movies. If anyone doubts that gaming could be art, this rally around ME3 shows that videogames can light up the biggest of passions.

We are not here because we hate ME, we are here ebcause we believe Bioware can listen to our points of view and see the truth in our words, we are here because we trust them, and we are here because we love Mass Effect.

So Bioware please, don't look in anger, but in humbleness and reach out for the fans who until the very end believed you would and still will do right by them.


Yes, this, and it's why being dismissed as acting whiny or entitled is so annoying.  I don't feel like I'm demanding anything from Bioware - I'm pleading with them for it.  I like these people.

#21805
Doppelgaenger

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Kitten Tactics wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?

That's not how statistics work.  The 30,000 are NOT the only people dissatisfied.  The total number of votes are a sample size, which IS an accurate representation of the masses.  When they take presidential polling, they often ask only 800-900 individuals, but come within 4-5 percentage points of the final results.  You are assuming that anyone who isn't on this board liked the ending, which is just not the case.  30,000 is a VERY generous sample size.  And even if you give it a large margin of error, say 5-10%, you are still left with a VAST majority that is dissatisfied.

Well that would only hold true if you ask 30,000 random people here on the BSN. We as the people dissatisfied are more likely to come here to express our dissatisfaction and thus the numbers are distorted. But this nonetheles shows an enormous dissatisfaction I seldomly have seen polls with 98% in favor of at least a modification.

Modifié par Doppelgaenger, 13 mars 2012 - 12:53 .


#21806
Matt_gekko88

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FugitiveMind wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

ReapersSniper wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Guys, I'm starting to believe this "we deliver the end in a DLC"-story could be true. But, even if I would be glad about a "real" ending instead of the one they gave us (so far), I would be disappointed of BioWare. The ending(s) belong on the disc.



Agreed, and if they do release something like that I bet my left nut it'll be for 800+ msp points

I don't want to claim this is happening or anything, but EA is bigger than anyone else on the whole "content exclusively for people who buy the game new".  Would they go so far as to release a game's true ending over the Alliance Network, so that people who buy the game used have to shell out to get the conclusion?


Oh I could definitely see that happening


And to speak the truth: I would pay for it   .____.
I totally would, for my Matthew Shepard.

Modifié par Matt_gekko88, 13 mars 2012 - 12:48 .


#21807
Annaleah

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WarBaby2 wrote...

LethesDeep wrote...

Yeah, really. I didn't see that comparison flying around the internet during the Fallout 3 ending backlash. It's really just insulting.


The Destructoid folks are... how shall I put this nicely... pretty immature most of the time... and they tend to try to bark with the pak and often be very non chalant.

Kinda sorry the Escapist hasn't picked up on our little endavour yet, though... I am really looking forward to what Yatzee
has to say about the ending.^^



I've watched enough of Yahtzee to know a bit of what he might say... on the one hand he hates fans of anything that speak up about anything so he will definitely chastise us about that... but on the other hand I'm sure he won't be able to ignore the glaring flaws/plotholes in the ending and the bad writing it entailed... he will also definitely bring attention to the fact that it was lazily copy-pasted from Deus Ex.

I watch him way too much...

Modifié par Annaleah, 13 mars 2012 - 12:50 .


#21808
nilcox

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Computim wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Guys, I'm starting to believe this "we deliver the end in a DLC"-story could be true. But, even if I would be glad about a "real" ending instead of the one they gave us (so far), I would be disappointed of BioWare. The ending(s) belong on the disc.


I honestly suspect, and I keep saying this, that they ran out of time.. it's obvious they underestimated being as they had to push the deadline once... the entire final mission seems more like they had to cut a final citadel mission, and a bunch of ending stuff and then piece together stuff that they already had resulting in inconsistencies (crew suddenly on ship, crewmates you were just with on ship, lack of point for the entire 'citadel war assets' stuff since the citadel got jacked anyway.

I'm fine with paying for them to FINISH the story properly.. they have the ability to make this into a moment of indoctrinated unconsciousness on the citadel where he talks to citadel kid.. and then come back to reality, realize he has to get to the council chamber and fire the weapon.. they have countless other possibilities.. just make sure it makes sense and lives up to the same standard of story/canon quality that you had the rest of the game.

I'm not expecting Lord of the Rings "holy crap I have to pee" 4th and 5th 'endings' but I'd like something better than everything I did to this point doesn't mean anything.. and uses space magic to make sense.


Honestly tho I would say thats very cool, I mean if they give out a dlc pack to write up the story for free over the alliance network and have planed that the entier "pick ur beam of doom" as a dream it would be a stroke of genious, why? Because in the dream we actualy get to learn more about the reapers by the kid.

#21809
The_Canadian_Dragon

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zarnk567 wrote...

this is not a bitter sweet ending to a game..... this is just a kick in the nuts, mixed with SPACE MAGIC. :(


I never would have thought of stating it this way, but rather than going into a long-winded post, that's basically what Bioware gave us. I told my sister - who doesn't even play the game, but did sit down to watch the end of it (twice as I reloaded and tried another option) - and she agreed.

#21810
Darkspazztic

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Dj14365 wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Guys, I'm starting to believe this "we deliver the end in a DLC"-story could be true. But, even if I would be glad about a "real" ending instead of the one they gave us (so far), I would be disappointed of BioWare. The ending(s) belong on the disc.

The one they gave us was the "real" ending, and if we manage to get the change we are desperately hoping for, they will say this was all planned just to save face. No company would admit that they fudged a product up this bad if there is a way to play it off.


I would actively applaud and support Bioware in every future endeavor if they were to admit they fudged it up and fixed it.

Not to say it was fudged.  I believe Bioware thought it would be appropriate and fitting to end the trilogy like this, I just don't think they thought through the impact it would have on people and how much they would care about their individual universes.

#21811
illutian

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wook77 wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

So... I heard some possible leaks today. Firstly: The old man and the child at the end of the ending, after the credits, are apparently Joker and your Love Interest's child.


Joker and Kaidan: Forbidden Love, the new fanfic


No. Joker talking to the child that your Love Interest has after all of this happens. Which could be Shepard's child, depending on who you romanced and what gender you were.


Ahm...that's sexist. Why does BroShep gets to have a child and FemShep can't? That would make absolutely no sense. I mean, why would Joker care about telling Kaidan's son what happened to Shepard? It would take away the "telling the kid a story about their parent" feeling...because, well, the kid won't be FemShep's kid.

Also...Joker would have to get so old in such a short amount of time! :blink:


The kid wouldn't be BroShep's either - if he romanced Kaidan as I did in my game. That ending disregard's women and LGBT relationships which, just... no. No thank you to that ending rumor at all.


Actually, you should listen to the old man closely.

"it happen so long ago". That means it happened beyond one FULL generation. 1-50yrs (the crew looks about 20-30) is not a "so long ago". 200-400yrs...that's a "so long ago". And with each person living to be about 100 in that day and age...you'll be looking at a 2-3 Generation of story-telling. So ya...stuff gets dropped, the fish gets bigger.

Not sure if it was mentioned buy it looks like it's the Normandy crew's descendents...that sky looks like the one Joker looks at after exiting the crashed Normandy.

PS: Legion was the first Geth to question. ;)

#21812
panamakira

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Aedera wrote...

panamakira wrote...

Eirileth wrote...

Don't blame BioWare. They feel horrible about all of this, judging by Chris Priestly's tweet last night. EA strong armed them into this. EA is notorious for doing that to good game companies that end up working with them.


What did Chris tweet?


I didn't find any tweet about EA (which, honestly, probably never happened unless he took it down) BUT I did see one that was rather interesting.  Someone asked about why there were two squadmates dead with you after the laser and what happened to them and he said I don't think we've revealed that yet.  

Yes almighty star child, I am hanging all my hopes on that "yet" at the end...

I have NO idea how to get links to a specific twitter conversation but here is this...

https://twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris 

Another thing he posted was about how his "heart hurt" from the BSN.  To be honest, for the most part, I think our conversations have been fair for the most part and not hurtful or fanboi raging but still can't be easy for the community managers.


Yeah I saw that~ Seriously what are they going to reveal? We have a major glitch we're trying to fix or there's a really good reason they just magically appear in the Normandy no matter what? Oh man, that hallucination/indoctrination theory is sounding good right now. 

#21813
Matt_gekko88

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Abbraxas00 wrote...

did anyone had the idea to play the last lvl for example in the collectors' equipment? because i'm not sure if my sheperd wore the things i made him wear in the last mission. that would be an interesting thing to try


Thats just because they don't make destroyed clothing for all the clothing-sets in the game.

#21814
Computim

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Doppelgaenger wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?

That's not how statistics work.  The 30,000 are NOT the only people dissatisfied.  The total number of votes are a sample size, which IS an accurate representation of the masses.  When they take presidential polling, they often ask only 800-900 individuals, but come within 4-5 percentage points of the final results.  You are assuming that anyone who isn't on this board liked the ending, which is just not the case.  30,000 is a VERY generous sample size.  And even if you give it a large margin of error, say 5-10%, you are still left with a VAST majority that is dissatisfied.

Well that would only hold true if you ask 30,000 random people here on the BSN. We as the people dissatisfied are more likely to come here to express their dissatisfaction and thus the numbers are distorted. But this nonetheles shows an enormous dissatisfaction I seldomly have seen polls with 98% in favor of at least a modification.


Dunno.. I've never made any program in my life that had 30,000 people think I needed to change it.. I'm pretty sure I'd give them something just so I didn't feel like I'd upset an entire small city of people haha.

#21815
karambiatos

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Abbraxas00 wrote...

did anyone had the idea to play the last lvl for example in the collectors' equipment? because i'm not sure if my sheperd wore the things i made him wear in the last mission. that would be an interesting thing to try

no he doesnt, it switches to a destroyed version of the starting armor

#21816
Aztlanna

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Dj14365 wrote...
The one they gave us was the "real" ending, and if we manage to get the change we are desperately hoping for, they will say this was all planned just to save face. No company would admit that they fudged a product up this bad if there is a way to play it off.


That's what I think, too. I think they ran out of time, just like with KOTOR 2, and they figured we'd be fine with it because it's just a stupid video game. (I don't think the new crop of writers understands how we connected with these characters. Generally speaking, people who play shooters and action games don't.) 

If they do address it, I'm sure it will be spun as a master plan, but I'm not buying that bridge.

#21817
MtWS

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Well, I suppose you can get the ending you want, provided you want an unsatisfying, closureless, vaguely mystical non-ending where three games worth of choices, relationships, and efforts are rendered completely irrelevant by a single choice between arbitrary options you're not allowed to question, followed by half the galaxy being wracked by massive, system-shattering explosions.

I can't imagine why more people didn't want that.

#21818
THX-1136

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SoulReaver49 wrote...

THX-1136 wrote...

ReapersSniper wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

SoulReaver49 wrote...

So we have some new multiplayer DLC, which, of course, isn't the DLC that we want.
http://www.cinemable...aled-40370.html


I knew it. If this is real, I totally saw this coming. I mean, who the **** cares about mp dlc right now? I sure don't. Actually, I plan on never touching mp (the beauty of playing ME on Xbox and having to pay extra)



The online isn't even all that great it gets boring after awhile I think theres only like four maps


People seem wrought up on multiplayer DLC when this is floating around:

Omega DLC with Aria; a mission with your LI; weapon/appearance packs; and a "Rescue Shepard" DLC... really hoping this turns out to be true... But these will be a little ways down the tube unfortunately


I've heard of the Omega DLC, but not the others. The link is broken, too, btw :(


Oops; thanks for pointing it out; it's fixed now :)

Yeah, the guy claims to be a minor Bioware employee, showed some proof of the DLCs but couldn't find it later on. I mean Omega seemed obvious with the comics, but the rest sound pretty aweome imo

Modifié par THX-1136, 13 mars 2012 - 12:52 .


#21819
Abbraxas00

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karambiatos wrote...

Abbraxas00 wrote...

did anyone had the idea to play the last lvl for example in the collectors' equipment? because i'm not sure if my sheperd wore the things i made him wear in the last mission. that would be an interesting thing to try

no he doesnt, it switches to a destroyed version of the starting armor


well then bioware was really lazy, or there is really something into it; or dont you think so?

#21820
TamiBx

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LethesDeep wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

There is a reason why I only play single player rpg games that don't have mp at all. That was another thing that made me annoyed bout ME3, but I can deal with it for now...there is something worse than not being able to achieve 5000 ems on sp:devil:


You can achieve 5000 ems on sp. Import a Shep, try to make as many allies as you can (I allied everyone), finish all the side missions, and scan every system in every cluster (basically, 100% completion). You'll get over 10000 TMS.


Have you tried it? Screenshots? Because I did try, and no, I did not get it. Yes, I imported a Shep from ME1 to ME2 and then ME3, I allied everyone, did all side quests, scan every single system and every single planet (it took hell of a long time, btw). 
The max I could get was around 7400 TMS, which is around 3700 ems without EVER touching mp.

SO many people have told me that you can do it, but no one has proven it. With a screenshot or a video or something. Until a see proof, I'm not believing it. 

#21821
Eumerin

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Computim wrote...

Matt_gekko88 wrote...

Guys, I'm starting to believe this "we deliver the end in a DLC"-story could be true. But, even if I would be glad about a "real" ending instead of the one they gave us (so far), I would be disappointed of BioWare. The ending(s) belong on the disc.


I honestly suspect, and I keep saying this, that they ran out of time.. it's obvious they underestimated being as they had to push the deadline once... the entire final mission seems more like they had to cut a final citadel mission, and a bunch of ending stuff and then piece together stuff that they already had resulting in inconsistencies (crew suddenly on ship, crewmates you were just with on ship, lack of point for the entire 'citadel war assets' stuff since the citadel got jacked anyway.

I'm fine with paying for them to FINISH the story properly...


I doubt that's what they're doing, but I'll also note that there's nothing that says that they automatically charge us if they do.  ME2 had DLC released free of charge (Zaeed, Firewalker), and there's no reason why they couldn't do the same thing here.

#21822
Kloborgg711

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Doppelgaenger wrote...

Kitten Tactics wrote...

christrek1982 wrote...

One thing I do want to bring up is we aren't a lot of people. Lets assume EA sells 1 million copies of ME3, then we represent (at 30,000 votes) 3% of total consumers. So remember that, even if we get to 100,000 votes that's only 10% of your customers. Why would they remake the ending for 10%?

That's not how statistics work.  The 30,000 are NOT the only people dissatisfied.  The total number of votes are a sample size, which IS an accurate representation of the masses.  When they take presidential polling, they often ask only 800-900 individuals, but come within 4-5 percentage points of the final results.  You are assuming that anyone who isn't on this board liked the ending, which is just not the case.  30,000 is a VERY generous sample size.  And even if you give it a large margin of error, say 5-10%, you are still left with a VAST majority that is dissatisfied.

Well that would only hold true if you ask 30,000 random people here on the BSN. We as the people dissatisfied are more likely to come here to express their dissatisfaction and thus the numbers are distorted. But this nonetheles shows an enormous dissatisfaction I seldomly have seen polls with 98% in favor of at least a modification.

(not contradicting what you said, just adding to it)
Yes, our statistics are biased to an extent. But, as I keep bringing up, that doesn't come close to accounting for the overwhelmingly universal response from the playerbase. Look at the other "top" Bioware polls. One asks if people were disappointed in Mass Effect 2. Despite the fact that many more disgruntled players would vote than satisfied players, it still ended up with more than 80% saying they weren't disappointed. Now, looking at the 2% rate of "it was alright", I think it's clear you can't ignore these numbers.

#21823
turian_rage

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Well hey, if the relays really did blow up and Shepard really was dead and the crew really was stranded on a deserted world.... they were happy. But still, let that all be some sort of false memory and then give us 5 minutes of shepard waking the hell up.

#21824
Computim

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Aztlanna wrote...

Dj14365 wrote...
The one they gave us was the "real" ending, and if we manage to get the change we are desperately hoping for, they will say this was all planned just to save face. No company would admit that they fudged a product up this bad if there is a way to play it off.


That's what I think, too. I think they ran out of time, just like with KOTOR 2, and they figured we'd be fine with it because it's just a stupid video game. (I don't think the new crop of writers understands how we connected with these characters. Generally speaking, people who play shooters and action games don't.) 

If they do address it, I'm sure it will be spun as a master plan, but I'm not buying that bridge.


Obsidian actually made KOTOR 2.. same symptoms though, they piece together what they have an so the ending isn't the same quality as the rest of the game.

#21825
Kitten Tactics

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Doppelgaenger wrote...

Well that would only hold true if you ask 30,000 random people here on the BSN. We as the people dissatisfied are more likely to come here to express their dissatisfaction and thus the numbers are distorted. But this nonetheles shows an enormous dissatisfaction I seldomly have seen polls with 98% in favor of at least a modification.

Oddly enough, if you look at the independent survey posted at Gamerant.com, it mirrors the one here almost exactly.