101103 réponses à ce sujet

[spacefiddle]

Funny, that quoted summary reply to that apologist article is spot on. And the article, sadly, just reinforced everything that went wrong. It just seems like someone starting with the desire to prove that Bioware does no wrong, and all the logical Twister that follows, and lengthy rationalizations, just illuminate that more.

In fact, the more I think about it....

1. Adam and Eve ending
2. Hero as Jesus / Martyr / gives up everything
3. Mysterious unexplained God-force appearing in child form
3a. child form is The One You Couldn't Save That Sums Up All Tragedy
4. We're Not Ready
4a. Destroy the Evil Advanced Technology
4b.Return to a Simpler Time
5. Ignore Our Own Advice
6. Good old-fashioned Determinism

It's the last two that're most infurating... the whole run-up to the end emphasizes the belief that there's "always another way," illustrated best in the path you can navigate to save both Quarians *and* Geth. But you remove self-determinated from everyone; after complaining to the Child God that "you're taking away our future," Shepard does so himself: kill all synthetics, become Minigod yourself, or *force everyone to meld* without their permission or even knowledge.

And THAT last point doesn't jive with We're Not Ready. We're not ready to keep the Mass Relays, but we're ready to all be converted to bio-synthetic hybrids... without charting our own path there as individual civilizations?

Sorry, Mr. Apologist Guy. It all just falls flat, and fails to be internally consistent.

[Tyranniac]

Try to stay nice when tweeting with @masseffect, guys. And they haven't really said anything directly to us. Be careful, we don't want to be percieved the wrong way. Also, as someone said, don't throw the charity in their face, it's a good thing, but showing it off is wrong.

[Ameno Xiel]

Just got online about 1 1/2h ago...60+ new pages...wow.

Got this song stuck in my head while catching up with this thread:



Pretty much sums up my feelings about everything that has gone wrong with ME3...

So yeah - we're not gonna take it!

Modifié par Ameno Xiel, 13 mars 2012 - 08:47 .

[Nilofeliu]

WarBaby2 wrote...

Lord Jaric wrote...
I don’t think I have ever been so vocal over a work of fiction before.

Me neither... but taking a stance once in while feels good, doesn't it?^^

I´ve done that once before with Star Wars Galaxies and the NGE. We all know how that ended, and honestly, I don't see much difference from what is going on here. I will not give up nor silence myself, but I do not hope for anything at all right now.

Actually, I do hope for one thing. I wish there were a group of programers that could in fact mod the game, so we could not only have our endings, but as many "side quests" as we want in the Mass Effect universe. If by any chance Bioware gave us a modding tool such as the one from DA:O, I would be happy enough...

[TSC_1]

More and more interesting.

[Dwest43]

After my first playthrough I wasn't too upset. After my second run I was like wtf. I did everything in multiplayer with all war assets and I pretty much got the same ending. I hope we get some epilogue dlc or clairity if the indoctrination theory is true.

[soske aizen]

Tyranniac wrote...

Try to stay nice when tweeting with @masseffect, guys. And they haven't really said anything directly to us. Be careful, we don't want to be percieved the wrong way. Also, as someone said, don't throw the charity in their face, it's a good thing, but showing it off is wrong.

this

[stucksuburbanite]

ARCTIC EAGLE wrote...

One thing to remember is most people haven't finished the game (those in college/have jobs that require large amounts of extra (non-work day) time). It will probably take 2-3 weeks before most people are in the same boat

I would actually say probably sooner than that.  It's spring break time: just had mine last week and finished the game in two days.  If dedicated college gamers aren't going on vacation then they'll finish it sooner than you think.  As for the working people, then two weeks seems reasonable.  But I would say that some more outpouring of criticism over the ending will occur this week.

[ziyon conqueror]

WvStolzing wrote...

Ziajin wrote...

KRAETZNER wrote...

dfstone wrote...

I don't see how this is a sad ending. I see it as a positive ending.

Ignorance is bliss.

^ ^ ^ Ignorance is indeed bliss, but to the one saying that the endings are good... You sir, are in the wrong thread. Just saying. This is for the people who agree the endings were terribad and whatnot.

He's actually in just the right thread; most people in this thread are trying to give reasons for why they think the endings are just badly written (nonexistent, I'd say), not repeating an article of faith they wouldn't allow to be challenged.

'Developing along predetermined paths' vs. 'making one's own path'----that's a recurrent theme of the series, and not just about the reapers. Practically every civilization in the galaxy believes it alone really knows what's best for everyone else: they try to 'engineer' entire species in what they think is the 'right direction' (the genophage; even the Protheans 'teaching' the Asari); or they try to suppress the slightest claim to self-determination that they don't know how to deal with (Quarians-the Geth).

You could say that the relationship between Miranda and her father is just a variation on this theme. (The name 'Miranda' can't be arbitrary, by the way; it's from Shakespeare's 'the Tempest', where you have her father Prospero the 'magician' creating a dreamlike world for his daughter, so that she grows up 'in the right way')

Yet the mass relays, and the Citadel open up unlimited possibilities for the civilizations of the galaxy----I really don't see why m. relay-travel should 'constrain' a civilization to a strictly pre-determined path, turning it into a puppet of the reapers. The Protheans use the technology for conquest, and imperial 'unity'; in 'our cycle', at least the Paragon Shepard goes to show that inter-species understanding, and peace is possible.

And why shouldn't we master the technology of the relays, and make it our own? Are the present-day French puppets of the Romans, and should they forget their language and adopt whatever celtic dialects were spoken in the region before the 'romanization', if they want to be 'free'?

I agree. I totally agree.

[Alamandorious]

See, everyone keeps bringing up that 'the mass effect relays being gone are merely an inconvenience'. This is, by the writer's own established canon, not the case.

We see in 'The Arrival' dlc, that the destruction of a mass relay destroys a batarian colony.

The next reply is usually 'well, obviously this is different because it was an energy beam, not an asteroid'

Well, check the in-game codex...read through the entries carefully in the secondary side. You will find text that specifically says 'if a mass relay is ruptured, the energy unleashed ruins every terrestrial planet in a solar system'.

The next reply is, 'Well, we saw Earth and it was fine, so that can't be true.'

We see Earth before the mass relay explodes, not after.

Bah. The violated their own canon. This is why I do hope we hear something soon about this, rather than later.

[IndustrializedTaco]

TSC_1 wrote...

More and more interesting.

That is interesting, do you think they will comment officially soon?

[Barbarossa2010]

stucksuburbanite wrote...

We all seem to be on the same page here but I just quickly want to put my two cents in. I could reluctantly accept Shepard sacrificing himself at the end of the game if only there was some additional closure as to what happened to the the rest of the galaxy. However, I stress the word reluctant: after the span of three games I've grown more than attached to my Shepard and although his sacrifice is heroic, it's about damn time the Shepard got a happy ending. The end of ME1 was hopeful; the end of ME2 prepared us for the impending Reaper attack. But the end of ME3 is just a straight up punch to the gut. The ending has caused me no small amount of emotional trauma: isn't it bad enough that I get that in everyday life? I don't need a video game to add to that.

A feeling shared by many.  I have no issue with sacrifice, if it's done well and a real meaning can be clearly attached to it.  Adding closure to tragic endings is always a good thing, as it's like the thick frosting on a fantastic cake as far as fiction and entertainment go.

My response to those who think themselves quite profound or somehow superior because they wallow or revel in the tragic and bleak is:  Real life is full of tragedy and darkness.  Something more folks who might be enamored with tragedy (and don't really comprehend the outrage engendered by ME's endings) might wish to come in contact more in real life.  Those who love bleak and dark might simply try leaving their homes from time to time, actually have a family of their own, visit Saint Jude's CH, maybe take on the mission of someone like Mother Teresa, or join their nation's military, and actually witness heroic sacrifice with their own eyes in reality, as opposed to trying to fill that void with a video game.

I'm 100% in agreement with you!  Tragedy, especially tragedy that seems to make so little sense and offer so little in closure to the player, is not all that satisfying of an experience.

[ArmyKnifeX]

I'm just going to repost a bit because I don't want it to get lost, I think it's important.

I had a feeling, when playing the demo, that the kid wasn't real from the beginning. The way he was introduced (when Anderson wasn't around/looking) and his ability to soundlessly disappear from the vent, in addition to the way he said "you can't save me" all led me, when I played the demo, to conclude the kid was some kind of hallucination. I put that feeling aside and ignored it when I played the game proper but now it's coming back to me.. I don't think the child was ever real. ESPECIALLY because he's the only child we ever see in the series (barring Rachnai exploding babies).

[VerdantSF]

Nilofeliu wrote...

Katsumi Liqueur wrote...

The_Canadian_Dragon wrote...

I was reading through the replies here:

http://penny-arcade....the-series-mass

I had to screencap this reply. Humorour yet accurate of the confusion the endings leave us with.

Soooo acurate!

Still laughing... At last after so long.. Good job people...

This... so much THIS.  How could this get past the creative team?!  How were there not enough dissenting voices in various meetings to stop this from becoming the actual ending?

[Avilan II]

Another article about the whole mess:

http://www.computera...ioware-blow-it/

Modifié par Avilan II, 13 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[_Heather_Shepard_]

My poor Shepard :'(

[thedistortedchild]

Feraiin wrote...

JerkyJohnny14 wrote...

WarBaby2 wrote...

halloween20 wrote...
yep...

only comments the give sounds like: "nice that u love the game <3"
nothing more...

Ah... ignorance is bliss... we'll see how long they can hold this up when game scores and prices are dropping further.

Someone ought to post: "Bioware loved the game it was perfect in every way. Its just so magnificient. Now that I have your attention tell me whats up with the end. Will you fix it please?"

That's exactly what I tweeted at Casey Hudson. No reply, but then again, I'm in Europe and he's in Canada and I only wrote that today.

I tweeted basically that to @masseffect and @gamblemike and got nothing from either of them.

[DiTHmaphacks]

GSS115 wrote...

It looks like Bioware gave themselves the same choices they gave us.
They can chosse to:

Fix the endings thus restoring faith for their fanbase.

Say nothing and wait for peak sales to make a decesion.

Not fix the endings and alienate a large portion of its fanbase.

In any case the faith in Bioware has been forever altered and its 'fans' will be more cautious when purchasing a future game.  Seing how there are 20,000 people and counting we are not the vocal minority.

Oh the irony.  

Thats not even close to the endings we got.If we got so different endings as your 3 choices above i would be a happy man.

[JerkyJohnny14]

TSC_1 wrote...

More and more interesting.

Part 1: Math effect, priceless.
Part 2: Not sure what faith there is to be had. Unless there is a chance for a better ending.

[Eumerin]

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Dorfgonewild81 wrote...

 Hard to keep up with this thread, so if this was already posted, sorry.  Adam Sessler of G4 talking about the ednings, dlc, same sex, etc

www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/721696/mass-effect-3-the-ending-dlc-and-same-sex-relationships-sesslers-soapbox/

One of the less knee-jerk critic reactions to our outporing. However, I have to wonder why so many of the "vidyagame critics" out there are pretty generally against what we're doing.

Probably in part because its a slippery slope.  The first time is always the hardest.  After that, it gets easier.  No matter how bad the ending was, the fact that a major developer/publisher (like Bioware and EA) could be pressured into changing the ending will potentially have serious repercussions throughout the industry.

At least half (and probably more) of the stuff that people complain about in video game forums pretty much amounts to whining.  Yes, some of it is actually constructive, but a lot of it is nonsense.  The problem is that most of the people who post that nonsense really do think that they're being constructive.  What those in the know fear is that every time a game ending is less than satisfactory, players are going to say, "The Mass Effect fans got Bioware to change the end of ME3.  I bet we can get (just to pick an example not entirely at random) Black Isle to change the end of Planescape: Torment too!"  Games with endings that are perfectly fine but don't have unicorns and rainbows will get protested by fans because they didn't have unicorns and rainbows.

In short, Bioware and EA are pretty much screwed no matter what happens at this point.  If it was intentional, and Bioware plans to release the "real" ending in a couple of weeks (strongly doubt it, personally), then things have already spiraled out of control and the announcement of such will be seen by fans as cover to hide a capitulation.  If Bioware and EA ignore the fuss, then there will likely be an anti-Bioware backlash which will reduce the value of Bioware as a brandname.  And if Bioware and EA give in, then everyone will know that EA caved once...  and will realize that EA might cave again in the future.

[Soundsystem]

KHReborn wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

Hm. Interesting.

My response:

@masseffect @theagiaseries How can we believe that, when there is no response from them?

But no resposne...

I also responded with " You guys haven't said ANYTHING. Which is part of the problem."

Modifié par Soundsystem, 13 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[demandhappyending]

Russian fleet is responding!
1k betrayed people gathering around.

[TSC_1]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

TSC_1 wrote...

More and more interesting.

That is interesting, do you think they will comment officially soon?

Sure would be nice.

I'd also like to reiterate what others here are saying: be nice to BW. They aren't the enemy. There is no enemy, here. We just want to work with BW to come to a mutually satisfactoy outcome. Let's not attack them. Let's make it clear that, while we have complaints, we aren't hostile towards them.

[DJ Shepard]

I am here to join the cause. Where are the 'UK fleet' sigs

[ArmyKnifeX]

Eumerin wrote...

ArmyKnifeX wrote...

Dorfgonewild81 wrote...

 Hard to keep up with this thread, so if this was already posted, sorry.  Adam Sessler of G4 talking about the ednings, dlc, same sex, etc

www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/721696/mass-effect-3-the-ending-dlc-and-same-sex-relationships-sesslers-soapbox/

One of the less knee-jerk critic reactions to our outporing. However, I have to wonder why so many of the "vidyagame critics" out there are pretty generally against what we're doing.

Probably in part because its a slippery slope.  The first time is always the hardest.  After that, it gets easier.  No matter how bad the ending was, the fact that a major developer/publisher (like Bioware and EA) could be pressured into changing the ending will potentially have serious repercussions throughout the industry.

At least half (and probably more) of the stuff that people complain about in video game forums pretty much amounts to whining.  Yes, some of it is actually constructive, but a lot of it is nonsense.  The problem is that most of the people who post that nonsense really do think that they're being constructive.  What those in the know fear is that every time a game ending is less than satisfactory, players are going to say, "The Mass Effect fans got Bioware to change the end of ME3.  I bet we can get (just to pick an example not entirely at random) Black Isle to change the end of Planescape: Torment too!"  Games with endings that are perfectly fine but don't have unicorns and rainbows will get protested by fans because they didn't have unicorns and rainbows.

In short, Bioware and EA are pretty much screwed no matter what happens at this point.  If it was intentional, and Bioware plans to release the "real" ending in a couple of weeks (strongly doubt it, personally), then things have already spiraled out of control and the announcement of such will be seen by fans as cover to hide a capitulation.  If Bioware and EA ignore the fuss, then there will likely be an anti-Bioware backlash which will reduce the value of Bioware as a brandname.  And if Bioware and EA give in, then everyone will know that EA caved once...  and will realize that EA might cave again in the future.

I don't think that's true. Just remember that the "Slippery Slope" argument is a logical fallacy.