221 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuthlan]

Sharrack wrote...

1.) Heavy barrel for pistols is in the Demo but not the one for ARs
2.) because of the ROF on the carnifex you can't walk your shots and in tight situations it's to slow compared to everything but snipers
3.) Phalanx is great for headshots but sucks on bodyshots compared to other weapons and the mag size reduces it's use in close quarter fighting (especially if you have a scope attached and have to fire from the hip).
4.) Precision of Pistols is great on free standing enemies but hits on ones in cover usually end up in the cover while with snipers you hit if you can see it.
At least thats the experience i made.
So: good allrounder, if you have a high precision with your shots they may seem too strong but that's not true for everybody.

5. M-99 Saber is not in the demo.

[royard]

TexasToast712 wrote...

royard wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

royard wrote...

Even with the accuracy fix, pistols are still overpowered. 

Just your opinion. I personally take a Mattock and Scimitar instead of a pistol and I kill just as quick as a Phalanx. The complaints against pistols are baseless. People trying to ruin other people's playstyle plain and simple. Pistols in ME are meant to be strong. Always have and always will. It also makes me sad that people are crying about pistols when there are even better ones in the full game. There are also weapons in other categories that will outshine them. Until we actually get hands on playtime with every single weapon, we cannot justify a nerf to anything.

Why are you only partially quoting me? 

I mean, I see that you are practicing your trolling skills (or being sarcastic in an odd way), but you really need to be able to somewhat defeat solid arguments to hone your skills. 

I love how you imply I'm trolling when I'm engaging you in intelligent discussion.

I mean, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you, but "It also makes me sad that people are crying about pistols when there are even better ones in the full game" really shows your logic. 

[TexasToast712]

royard wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

royard wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

royard wrote...

Even with the accuracy fix, pistols are still overpowered. 

Just your opinion. I personally take a Mattock and Scimitar instead of a pistol and I kill just as quick as a Phalanx. The complaints against pistols are baseless. People trying to ruin other people's playstyle plain and simple. Pistols in ME are meant to be strong. Always have and always will. It also makes me sad that people are crying about pistols when there are even better ones in the full game. There are also weapons in other categories that will outshine them. Until we actually get hands on playtime with every single weapon, we cannot justify a nerf to anything.

Why are you only partially quoting me? 

I mean, I see that you are practicing your trolling skills (or being sarcastic in an odd way), but you really need to be able to somewhat defeat solid arguments to hone your skills. 

I love how you imply I'm trolling when I'm engaging you in intelligent discussion.

I mean, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you, but "It also makes me sad that people are crying about pistols when there are even better ones in the full game" really shows your logic. 

Basically it means you and others are going to be ****ing about pistols forever.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 04 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Sharrack]

Oh, and based on stats alone it seems the Paladin is the only pistol beating the Mattock in both, burst and sustained DPS.

[Legato 0021]

TehJumpingJawa wrote...

Legato 0021 wrote...

Your speech about diversity rings false when the majority of people in games are still using all different weapons.
I've probably played more than you, considering I reached rank 120 4days on the demo and kept playing up to this point and I still see many people using every weapon that is in the game. Just because it is strong, doesn't make it an automatic favorite. Diversity, from YOUR point of view is weapon stats, from the point of view I made early it was based on how many people actually use just one weapon.

What the masses do is tbh quite irrelevant. The majority of them are completely ignorant to build optimisation; quite happy to play on bronze with suboptimal equipment, win, and feel happy with themselves afterwards.
To these 'casual' players weapon balance is irrelevant, but for ME3 MP to have any kind of long-term interest with players above 'casual' level I think it's an important issue.

Precisely what are you disputing?
That the weapons are imbalanced? or that the fact they're imbalanced doesn't matter?

The 1st can be proven to be false simply by playing the game.
The 2nd is ofcourse a matter of opinion, but I'd hope that anyone even moderately qualified in game design would disagree.

If ANY weapon is used more than others it is the Mantis, but why don't you go play Call of Duty and tell me how many snipers you find before you complain about that one. (: (Incase you are smart enough to figure out that line, I mean people love sniper rifles.... period.)

Never had the misfortune to play CoD, and hopefully never will. However from my days of playing Battlefield 2 I'm acutely aware of the demographic that like to sit staring down a sniper scope.
I think they must be from the generation that was deprived of bash-a-mole.

The point I was making everything is fine in terms of balance.
You are going on talking about how players suck and imbalanced weapons make the game more fun for them.
This is where I prove you wrong using your own terms.
You state that the weapons are in fact imbalanced, okay lets take that in for a second and while we do that lets recap on what else you stated that goes hand in hand with that. You also stated most of the players are ignorant and are, from what I gathered out of your statement, pretty bad players.
Well, considering you stated that those bad players play on bronze and they are infact bad, having them with imbalanced weapons moving up into silver where the better players are wouldn't it be easier to have a squadmate that has a pistol that does more damage even though he sucks because now said bad player can atleast kill a few guys before becoming completely useless.
That is thinking in terms of logic.

Anyway, my point from the start was don't complain about the pistol being to powerful over a rifle.
As a military man I can easily state that they are plenty of hard hitting pistols in the world that can dish out a great deal of more pain than any standard rifle does. Instead you are sitting here going on about how the pistol for its weight it unlogical or imbalanced. Have you ever fired a revolver or a desert eagle?

Now with that being said, in LOGICAL and RATIONAL thought process these pistols in this game are NOT overpowered and do NOT need a debuff.
Anyone saying otherwise honestly needs to just stop complaining and shouldn't even be allowed to play multiplayer. Its people like you guys that complain, complain, and complain about something that barely affects you and ruins the experience for everyone else.

[Gwinever]

pistols are fine as it is, honestly, just buff the AR.
Also, lose the scope's on pistols, it's kinda ridiculous. have you ever tried or seen a pistol with a scope? it's bloody akward to handle let alone use the scope

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Gwinever wrote...

pistols are fine as it is, honestly, just buff the AR.
Also, lose the scope's on pistols, it's kinda ridiculous. have you ever tried or seen a pistol with a scope? it's bloody akward to handle let alone use the scope

I need the pistol scope for one of my characters.  There are times when I need a precise shot but a sniper rifle is too heavy.  I don't put a scope on my assault rifle anymore because of the difficulty of aiming in close range with it.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Legato 0021 wrote...

The point I was making everything is fine in terms of balance.
You are going on talking about how players suck and imbalanced weapons make the game more fun for them.

No, I said they'd be none the wiser.
The casual players are typically stumbling along using ineffective shotguns/smgs & ARs without realizing how hopelessly outclassed by pistols and SRs these weapons are.
It doesn't matter to them because they're playing easy mode (bronze) where the differences in weapon effectiveness are irrelevant.

Legato 0021 wrote...
This is where I prove you wrong using your own terms.
You state that the weapons are in fact imbalanced, okay lets take that in for a second and while we do that lets recap on what else you stated that goes hand in hand with that. You also stated most of the players are ignorant and are, from what I gathered out of your statement, pretty bad players.
Well, considering you stated that those bad players play on bronze and they are infact bad, having them with imbalanced weapons moving up into silver where the better players are wouldn't it be easier to have a squadmate that has a pistol that does more damage even though he sucks because now said bad player can atleast kill a few guys before becoming completely useless.
That is thinking in terms of logic.

As they progress to silver & gold, yes - they'll realize how useless their initial weapon choices were, and switch to pistols & SRs.
Are we really satisfied with a game mechanic that deems ARs, shotguns & SMGs as 'for noobs' and pistols & ARs are 'for pros' ?
I for one would like the 'noob' guns to be viable in gold so that I can explore the miriad of other class, weapon & skill configurations that such a change would create.

Anyway, my point from the start was don't complain about the pistol being to powerful over a rifle.
As a military man I can easily state that they are plenty of hard hitting pistols in the world that can dish out a great deal of more pain than any standard rifle does. Instead you are sitting here going on about how the pistol for its weight it unlogical or imbalanced. Have you ever fired a revolver or a desert eagle?

Now with that being said, in LOGICAL and RATIONAL thought process these pistols in this game are NOT overpowered and do NOT need a debuff.
Anyone saying otherwise honestly needs to just stop complaining and shouldn't even be allowed to play multiplayer. Its people like you guys that complain, complain, and complain about something that barely affects you and ruins the experience for everyone else.

Parallels to real life weaponry are completely irrelevant; this is about making a balanced game that has mid/long term depth in it's mechanics.

The only nerf I've ever suggested for pistols is to remove their scope, so they don't encroach upon the niche filled by sniper rifles.
All the other changes needed are buffs to the weaker/est abilities, and damage/rof increases to the automatic weapons.

Modifié par TehJumpingJawa, 04 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Roselle Lynnette]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Well, if there's reason to do so, why shouldn't we?

If just in an unforeseen amount of time, things won't change, is that a reason to stop wanting to change?

Welcome back to the stone age, here we have big stones. And others that are bigger. Now quit crying around and hunt this mammoth over there. AND. NOTHING. ELSE!


Or maybe something more recent:
Welcome to the fascistic state of Germany. We love hunting down and murdering people for their beliefs or because we think their noses don't please our aestetics. Want to change that? Sorry, can't, deal with it. Now if you excuse us, we have to do some more murdering, forever.



DO you see the flaw in your argumentation? Or do I have to drop another anvil?

It is not 'dropping an anvil' when both of your metaphors are too extreme compared to the relevant case, and also irrelevant to said case. If anything, it'd be better for everyone in this thread, even people who agree with you, to ignore your post entirely. Just saying, your argument is just as flawed, if not more because of how ridiculous your post is.

[Peer of the Empire]

Buff shotguns

[Poison_Berrie]

TexasToast712 wrote...

I love how you imply I'm trolling when I'm engaging you in intelligent discussion.

What's intelligent about ignoring the facts (stats) he stated?

Sharrack wrote...

1.) Heavy barrel for pistols is in the Demo but not the one for ARs

Meaning that ARs get the same percentage boost as pistols making the distance between them slightly smaller.

2.) because of the ROF on the carnifex you can't walk your shots and in tight situations it's to slow compared to everything but snipers

I'll give you that. Though that just means it's a replacement for  the Viper. 

3.) Phalanx is great for headshots but sucks on bodyshots compared to other weapons and the mag size reduces it's use in close quarter fighting (especially if you have a scope attached and have to fire from the hip).
4.) Precision of Pistols is great on free standing enemies but hits on ones in cover usually end up in the cover while with snipers you hit if you can see it.

Mattock is still dealing less damage at the same range, with both having comparable ROF.
And I haven't found the pistols accuracy to be that bad against cover. Cover shooting with pistol hits more often than an AR and the times where the scopes zoom seemed to make a headshot hard were the same times where getting the Sniper Rifle on target was hard.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 05 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Shadow of Terror]

Pistols: Goes up to Paladin for best damage to weight.
AR/Shotguns: Current demo guns are the weakest in the game. AR has no Extended Barrel in the demo.

With the SMG's getting the 0.9 weight reduction, they will be purely weightless side arms.

Can we wait until the full game is out before nerfing everything?

[darkblade]

It's because of people that do not know how to adapt games keep getting dumbed down.

You do know what nerf means right? when something gets nerfed, someone somewhere game play experience just got harder...not dumbed down. It gets rid of brain dead characters and brain dead tactics.

Well, you can't have both low weight and high damage. And the devs decided they want low weight for SMGs. They are very balanced, but probably in a way you don't like.

Their damage wouldnt have to be phenomenal if they still had their dmg multipliers

AR's and Machine pistols are for people who can't play with out automatics. Don't nerf other weapons to make auto's better.

Are you really gonna say something this stupid and believe it?

1) if you really believe this it has to be the first and only stupid opinion in history.
2) so your opinion means that it ok to have a game were 2 weapon classes are garbage because you think only bad players use automatic weapons?
3) I think you are pretty much just hating on players from other games that can feather the trigger and out play you with full autos.

[Athenau]

The people who complain that balance isn't important because this is CoOp multiplayer are tremendously naive. There's a reason that the developers of PvE MMO's pay a lot of attention to class and item balance.

At release there will be casual players and competitive players. The casual players will use whatever weapons and classes they like best, not really put much thought into builds or strategy, and will generally have fun playing however they like. A year or two down the line when the hype's died down, these players will be gone. The remaining population will be almost exclusively the hardcore. They will know every build, every strategy, and every exploit. They will use the optimal weapon loadout for each character and map, and will only group with people who do the same. And I can guarantee you that if the weapon balance remains as is, you'll see something like 90% of them toting pistols

Modifié par Athenau, 05 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[Darkslayer557]

not a competitive multiplayer game, i dont get why people wanna nerf stuff. It hurts you right?

[Zhuinden]

It's not the pistol that's overpowered, it's the other weapons just not being worth using.
They're all either too heavy, too slow, or just plain worthless! Especially the SMGs. There's such ridiculous recoil on the Tempest for example that it's impossible to aim with it.

[Syrus101]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Haseeo wrote...

you nerf one gun then someone complains about nerfing another and it just goes on and on and on.

Also, this. This forum is already going the way of the Bungie, 343i, and Epic forums because people want everyone to play their way. This game doesn't even have a PVP!

exactly... has everyone started a 'make things fair for the AI' movement or something? theres no PvP so why are people complaining? if anything people should be saying 'nerf the AI' and 'buff our weapons and abilities!' not 'nerf stuff'


Mass effect games always seemed to have prefered pistols as far as weapons go. they always seemed to be the 'better' weapons. to be honest the pistols look and feel right. each of them are in their own class and how you want to use them: the Carnfex is the high power mini sniper but bad up close. the Predator is the light, easy-to-use in any situation. and the Phalanx is the gun that isnt a Carnfex but not quite a Predator and gets the best of both worlds...


I would like to see more weapon options but I am quite sure the full game will indeed have more options to choose from.... if ANYTHING needs to be tweaked.... possibly the races and classes. but the weapons seem fine

[robarcool]

The only thing to be nerfed is this thread. It has gone on for way too long.

[Eludajae]

All weapons have an advantage and disadvantage. I see no reason to nerf anything based on a demo that does not incorporate a complete version of the multiplayer game.

[Butthead11]

Eludajae wrote...

All weapons have an advantage and disadvantage. I see no reason to nerf anything based on a demo that does not incorporate a complete version of the multiplayer game.

But some weapons have a lot more advantages than others

Such as the Carnihax

[Mutubah]

IMO, as the game is in the demo, SMGs, assault rifles, and shotguns are gimped compared to the other weapons, which is a real shame because I enjoy using them. I hope that the weapons are more balanced in the full game. I'd really like to use an assault rifle without feeling like I'm using a subpar weapon.

[HolyAvenger]

They just need an accuracy nerf at range, and to not have scopes.

Putting a scope on a pistol shouldn't suddenly make it accurate at long ranges, no more than putting a scope on a shotgun would.