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[Delta 57 Dash]

Personally I screwed up my Vanguard build badly, so I can't really play her except on bronze.

Nova half-blast lets you do two novas in a row. Nova gives you invulnerability frames on startup.

By the time you finish using the second one, as long as you timed it properly, you should have charge up again, letting you start the process all over.

[Cuthlan]

My Vanguard build is borked, too. I thought Nova would be tied to the same timer as Biotic Charge, so I ignored it at first. Since that was my first character in the demo I hadn't talked to many people about it yet... I built myself for the ME2 charge-headshot playstyle.

[Nightsong]

Modifié par MeiWang, 29 février 2012 - 07:07 .

[P38 ace]

Cuthlan got it right, I don't want to play pong with the enamy and me be the ball.
The ME2 vanguard exceled at "digging out the trenches" and closing gaps for a good old, shotty blast
I could stay up close and tear up the place, what everyone is now describing is that the vanguard play hit and run.

The vanguard should take control of the CQB not run in and out taking pot shots on the enamies leaving a quick as they came.

[Delta 57 Dash]

You can't charge out. Same as ME2, you can only charge to enemies.

You charge in. While charging, you are invulnerable. When you hit, you knock enemies back.
Fire a couple shots.
When they recover, Nova. Repeat.
By this time, Charge is back up. Charge nearest enemy. Restore all your shields, knock them back.

If you keep this up, you are BLOODY INVINCIBLE.

[bennyjammin79]

Wut's tarrible?

[Berkilak]

Aurellia wrote...

Delta 57 Dash wrote...

Rule #1 of playing vanguard: Get 200% cooldown reduction on your weapon loadout.

Rule #2: Make cooldowns as low as possible

Rule #3: Get Full-barrier-recharge on your charge and nova half blast

Rule #4: Realize that you are invincible while either charging or the nova startup animation.

You may now proceed to Charge -> Nova -> Nova -> Charge your way to total invincibility.

(oh and pretty much ignore shockwave)

Partially disagree on #3.  yes on full barrier recharge but while half blast is nice.  My fiance got it and regretted it vs my 25% cooldown choice.

The 25% cooldown reduction after charge has allowed me to do riskier things than I would otherwise.  The extra damage on first nova is also pretty sweet.  However I don't get to sample the other approach until release, so I might change my tune after that.

Also don't ignore shockwave.  It is very important when you're in a hallway trying to keep mechs and other mobs at bay.  Shooting shockwave at 45 degree angle through a corner or through walls that stagger and knock back can slow down the advance or hold them from storming your location.  I wouldn't have been able to hold the control room in the corridor in firebase white against 6 mechs, phantoms, nemesii, etc without shockwave.  I slowed them down just enough that one team mate could pretty freely kill adds.

Vanguard is more than charge/nova/etc spam.

*to the other poster*

The vanguard hate thread has some good build info on vanguards.

Any ability with only a chance of working isn't worth it if you're playing on Gold. You need to be aware of what you can do at any given moment. You need to rely on all of your abilties, and if one might not be there when you need it, you're nothing but a body.

[Zhuinden]

Cuthlan wrote...

My Vanguard build is borked, too. I thought Nova would be tied to the same timer as Biotic Charge, so I ignored it at first. Since that was my first character in the demo I hadn't talked to many people about it yet... I built myself for the ME2 charge-headshot playstyle.

Ouch. Nova was the first thing I got, personally: I was curious how it would work.
Level 6 Charge with Level 6 Nova is just plain overkill.

[Cuthlan]

I was able to salvage it and make a usable character, but it isn't optimized.

I'd rather learn what works and what doesn't now than in the live version though, so I'm cool with it.

[Aurellia]

[quote]Berkilak wrote...
[/quote]Any ability with only a chance of working isn't worth it if you're playing on Gold. You need to be aware of what you can do at any given moment. You need to rely on all of your abilties, and if one might not be there when you need it, you're nothing but a body.
[/quote]

What ability are you talking about?

I'm talking about the nova causing 25% cooldown to all powers when you use it (instead of double nova for half damage)

[Berkilak]

[quote]Aurellia wrote...

[quote]Berkilak wrote...
[/quote]Any ability with only a chance of working isn't worth it if you're playing on Gold. You need to be aware of what you can do at any given moment. You need to rely on all of your abilties, and if one might not be there when you need it, you're nothing but a body.
[/quote]

What ability are you talking about?

I'm talking about the nova causing 25% cooldown to all powers when you use it (instead of double nova for half damage)

[/quote]My bad, I misread. I though you were talking about the 25% for Charge not to incur a cooldown instead of gaining full shields.

[Aurellia]

Berkilak wrote...
Any ability with only a chance of working isn't worth it if you're playing on Gold. You need to be aware of what you can do at any given moment. You need to rely on all of your abilties, and if one might not be there when you need it, you're nothing but a body.

I'm not talkign about the 25% chance of instant cooldown.  Sorry my earlier post was a bit unclear.  Fixed now:)

I was talking about the 25% cooldown bonus to all powers for 15 seconds after you nova.  There is a good case to be made for taking this over double nova.  Basically lets you do 1 nova for full rather than half damage and by the time it finishes and you have rotated during your nova to aim towards your next target and land, then you can immediately charge the next target.

I pretty consistently out DPS/score/clear areas faster than double nova Vanguards. 

Modifié par Aurellia, 28 février 2012 - 08:05 .

[Berkilak]

Aurellia wrote...

Berkilak wrote...
Any ability with only a chance of working isn't worth it if you're playing on Gold. You need to be aware of what you can do at any given moment. You need to rely on all of your abilties, and if one might not be there when you need it, you're nothing but a body.

I'm not talkign about the 25% chance of instant cooldown.  Sorry my earlier post was a bit unclear.  Fixed now:)

I was talking about the 25% cooldown bonus to all powers for 15 seconds after you nova.  There is a good case to be made for taking this over double nova.  Basically lets you do 1 nova for full rather than half damage and by the time it finishes and you have rotated during your nova to aim towards your next target and land, then you can immediately charge the next target.

I pretty consistently out DPS/score/clear areas faster than double nova Vanguards. 

On Bronze or Silver, I assume? Because those extra invulnerability frames that two Novas give are absolutely invaluable.

[Aurellia]

Berkilak wrote...
]My bad, I misread. I though you were talking about the 25% for Charge not to incur a cooldown instead of gaining full shields.

NP.  Yeah not taking full shields is a pretty silly choice:)

[BuffPhantoms]

Human Vanguard is a very very good class, perhaps it is your playstyle that is the issue? It has a high difficulty curve on GOLD, but it can be done with proper patience and timing.

Tell me how you play it maybe we can help and see what you are doing wrong.

[Aurellia]

Berkilak wrote...
On Bronze or Silver, I assume? Because those extra invulnerability frames that two Novas give are absolutely invaluable.

Gold too.  The cooldown lets me live just long enough to charge again even with 1 bar of health.

The main bummer that gold gives me is I can no longer take out a double turret spawn so that's pretty much insta death if I miss the presence of the second turret.

It may be that I am working harder/needing better skill/timing than a double Nova VG.  The key thing things for me is to use nova jump properly to damage my next target and to aquire it while I'm jumping.

I wish I could respec to try double nova.  I might change my mind if I can try it:)  I imagine that double nova would mean double Nova jump which would be awesome.

Modifié par Aurellia, 28 février 2012 - 08:11 .

[Peer of the Empire]

Nova is garbage without half barrier use spec

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

I didn't go half-nova route but I'd like to see it in action. Without it though, my recharge is fast enough that I can just go from charge-nova-charge-nova so I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make.

[Delta 57 Dash]

Half-nova gives you an overall increase in damage (2 uses at 60% each = 120% total), and twice the invulnerability frames. I find the 25% increase is minuscule when your base recharge is only 2 seconds to begin with...

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

I'll end up trying it out in release for sure, wish we had the 2nd human for each class unlocked to try out different builds...

[P38 ace]

My play is conservative, but extremly agressive at the same time.
I like to prep the area be fore I charge in, sofen the defence, taking out shields/barriers/armor.this is usually done with the avenger, but waiting for the mattox, I like to make every shot count taking time to aim and line up good shots, I do this on all shooter games, and I get critized for it.

Then charge in take them down with a shotty, preferable geth shotgun or evisorator(don't have them yet) move in a offensive withdraw, so my team, can hopefully cover me and then move to cover and start over

Now if I had the old shockwave after charging and burning out a TC or two, I would use shockwave to "dig out" the enamies in cover and press the attack with a reloaded shotty or switching back to the AR and then move to another covered position and then repeat.

pull would be for the prep and a last dich dig-up move.

i don't want to play pong with cerberus.

Modifié par P38 ace, 28 février 2012 - 09:12 .

[CrazyCatDude]

P38 ace wrote...

You guys are fun, you keep giving me ammo to chew on and then spit back at you.

@marshalleck
They stagger back but don't always drop it, about 1 in 10 drop their shield on me. And even though it swings back, I rarely get a chance to get a kill shot on him before it swings back around.

You are up close, in enemy "tarritory", an enemy that you can't hit standing I front of you, and his buddies in cover around him, and are about to pop up and shoot you.

If you nova you may not hit all of them, and now you are down to half shield, exposed, and bullet about to be torn into you

Yeah that is a delitful situation to be in.

If you charge a guardian and he doesn't drop his shield, charge him again, and again, and again.

I regularly charge/nova kill Atlas's on Silver.  If you're specced and geared correctly, then you should have a whapping 3 second cooldown on Charge, and be able to carry a Katana and Predator or a Katana an Shuriken.  Honestly, correctly specced, neither the Predator nor the Shuriken will affect your cooldowns AT ALL, so your only paying the weight penalty for the Katana.

Playing a human Vanguard and being afraid to use Nova is like played a Vanguard and being afraid to use charge.  It's gimping yourself in a major way.

[Omega-202]

P38 ace wrote...

Cuthlan got it right, I don't want to play pong with the enamy and me be the ball.
The ME2 vanguard exceled at "digging out the trenches" and closing gaps for a good old, shotty blast
I could stay up close and tear up the place, what everyone is now describing is that the vanguard play hit and run.

The vanguard should take control of the CQB not run in and out taking pot shots on the enamies leaving a quick as they came.

You're not playing "hit-and-run".  You're supposed to be playing "hit-and-human tornado".

You keep Charging, Meleeing and Novaing until everything is dead.  You control close quarters and make everything in a 3 meter radius constantly stagger, stumble and die, all the while you remain invulnerable to damage 75% of the time due to the start-up of Charge and Nova.  

Its not pot shots.  If you're taking pot shots you're doing it wrong.  But that should be apparent by the fact that you say that Guardians give you trouble.  Charge ->3-5 Phalanx headshots = dead Guardian.  If you've got the shields to spare and he's got another Guardian friend with him, Shockwave -> Pistol kill ->Charge second -> Pistol kill, meanwhile they can't even respond due to staggering.  

You don't run.  You keep Charging.  Its really no use talking to you about this because you simply haven't seen it in action.  We're describing an elephant and you're trying to argue that about giraffes.  
 

[Omega-202]

P38 ace wrote...

My play is conservative, but extremly agressive at the same time.
I like to prep the area be fore I charge in, sofen the defence, taking out shields/barriers/armor.this is usually done with the avenger, but waiting for the mattox, I like to make every shot count taking time to aim and line up good shots, I do this on all shooter games, and I get critized for it.

Then charge in take them down with a shotty, preferable geth shotgun or evisorator(don't have them yet) move in a offensive withdraw, so my team, can hopefully cover me and then move to cover and start over

Now if I had the old shockwave after charging and burning out a TC or two, I would use shockwave to "dig out" the enamies in cover and press the attack with a reloaded shotty or switching back to the AR and then move to another covered position and then repeat.

pull would be for the prep and a last dich dig-up move.

i don't want to play pong with cerberus.

Then you're playing the wrong class.  You should be playing the Drell Vanguard. 

You can't complain that you're apple doesn't taste like an orange.  Wait til you get an orange and then complain if you don't like it.  

[P38 ace]

Like I said before I have not unlocked him/it, what ever you want to call the drell

And you my be talking elephant, strong relestless pounding
I want sarbertooth tiger: fast, quick, decisive using as little energy as possible,

I could do that in ME2.I can't in ME3