Vanguards are only effective in the right hands. Too many times I have seen some idiots charge into a ridiculous amount of enemies and get their asses kicked repeatedly while dealing little or no damage to the enemies. Wouldn't even waste the time to revive them...
Vanguards are dumb
Débuté par
Luigitornado
, févr. 28 2012 07:55
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#52
Posté 28 février 2012 - 08:52
Cyonan
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Luigitornado wrote...
Bronze difficulty.
And I wouldn't be complaining if it wasn't warranted.
You're complaining about us playing the exact way we were intended to play. It sounds more like you aren't the team player, and just want all the kills to yourself.
If I charged a target near you, it's either because I wanted to regen my shields, and he was the easiest target to find(Spending time on finding a target can result in a dead vanguard), or because I saw a bunch of enemies surrounding you and was moving into a position to nova spam to help you.
If it's the last target on the map, then who really cares?
#53
Posté 28 février 2012 - 08:56
ViSeiRa
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Luigitornado wrote...
Not team based if they aren't playing like a team.Berkilak wrote...
The irony of that statement... Sounds like they're doing their job and doing it well. Don't be petty in a team-based game.Luigitornado wrote...
I don't expect to change anything. I'm just being vocal about what has been bothering me: stupid players that can't play team games.
Most vanguards I've come across are playing like they are solo-ing except with three other players on the map.
Why do Vanguards charge?
1. Replenish their barriers.
2. Use Nova while surrounded by many enemies to maximize effectiveness.
3. Draw aggro so that an Infiltrator teammate can pick up the two guardians who spanned on their heels to attack him.
4. heal a fallen teammate far away on the field.
5. It's their goddamned playstyle.
6. Draw aggro away from you so you can finish that intel upload without getting killed.
7. KILLING ****!NG PHANTOMS. (all classes can but a Vanguard gives them a taste of their own medecine... Charge > Nova > Shotty > Heavy Melee == never fails
)A Vanguard is almost always gonna be a solo player in a team or more like a lone wolf, because their playstyle dictates they do so, if he doesn't charge he's bad Vanguard. what good is a Vanguard standing next to your Widow / Mantis X wielding Infiltrator while you're picking targets through your scope?
What can you do to capitalize on this playstyle?
1. pick off any surrouding enemies that got damaged because of their Charge > Nova (counter steal kills if you will... according to your method of thinking, to me it's just me helping him or them helping me).
2. spawn a turret or a combat drone near their charge zone to help them and get kills of your own.
3. if you're a Vanguard then by all means, you should both charge to the same area, Nova at the same time and stand back to watch the fireworks.
4. I one played with a team of 4 Vanguards, all of us between 18-20 on Gold, and we absolutely aced it! all of us had Scimitar X only, we'd all charge to the same area, Nova the same area, use our shotguns, charge again and so on.
5. Use his charge to snipe kill that Atlas that turned around using its weak spot, you know the red revolving engine thing on its back?
Shall I go on?
#54
Posté 28 février 2012 - 08:57
viggorrah
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Exactly.v1K0 wrote...
Vanguards are only effective in the right hands. Too many times I have seen some idiots charge into a ridiculous amount of enemies and get their asses kicked repeatedly while dealing little or no damage to the enemies. Wouldn't even waste the time to revive them...
Also, Vanguards may be the most obvious at "stealing kills", but they are by no means the only ones. By a long shot.
Modifié par viggorrah, 28 février 2012 - 09:03 .
#56
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:00
Giantdeathrobot
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What is this bizzare notion of kill-stealing in a game where all XP and money is shared? Yes even the ''25 kills'' (for example) medals that an individual player receive give XP to the whole team. Not only that, but it's not who makes the kill that matters, it's who does the most damage to the enemy. So useless complaint is useless.
#57
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:02
ViSeiRa
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Giantdeathrobot wrote...
What is this bizzare notion of kill-stealing in a game where all XP and money is shared? Yes even the ''25 kills'' (for example) medals that an individual player receive give XP to the whole team. Not only that, but it's not who makes the kill that matters, it's who does the most damage to the enemy. So useless complaint is useless.
This!! so many people don't understand that I got 264 points for killing a Phantom while my teammate got 900+ for the assist.
I once killed only 25 targets using my Engineer on Gold, but got 75+ assists and I was at the top of the list, teamwork people, teamwork.
#58
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:03
RckFlorida1
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I must say that I have no problem with a vanguard, and I have no problem if i have someone take my kills, thats why there are assist points
#59
Guest_the satirist_*
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:03
Guest_the satirist_*
Guest_the satirist_*
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It's pretty simpel: ppl hate vanguards, when they join the lobby. But the hate turns into love pretty quickly, when the whole team aside from the vanguard is down and he finishes wave 10 by himself.
That's why I always avoid killing the phantom that's about to stab my squadmates, just so I can kill it alone as soon as they're down. And I'm always just about a second late for rezzing them. (what a pity) That I always steal their kills goes without saying.
That's why I always avoid killing the phantom that's about to stab my squadmates, just so I can kill it alone as soon as they're down. And I'm always just about a second late for rezzing them. (what a pity) That I always steal their kills goes without saying.
#60
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:03
Arcadian Legend
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Regardless of what everyone thinks I bet that we can all agree that watching a Gold game consisting of nothing but highly levelled and experienced vanguards would be a spectacle.
#62
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:06
Hatem
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Jesus Christ, there was a "vanguard sux" thread created just 6 hours ago, is it really necessary to create yet another one?
Don't blame vanguards 'cause you're bad.
Don't blame vanguards 'cause you're bad.
#63
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:09
cronshaw8
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I don't want to play with you either
#64
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:10
Geimhreadh
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It's the internet. Why post in someone else's thread? Your issue is obviously important enough to warrant its own thread even if there are a dozen other threads on the exact same subject.Gr4ntus wrote...
Jesus Christ, there was a "vanguard sux" thread created just 6 hours ago, is it really necessary to create yet another one?
Don't blame vanguards 'cause you're bad.
#65
Guest_the satirist_*
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:11
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Arcadian Legend wrote...
Regardless of what everyone thinks I bet that we can all agree that watching a Gold game consisting of nothing but highly levelled and experienced vanguards would be a spectacle.
It yould be a picture of misery and pain. Unless you have a fetish for constant moaning and groaning. (I guess tennis players would like it)
#66
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:12
Maria Caliban
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Luigitornado wrote...
Oh, and btw, no one make the argument that kills don't matter. If that were the case then vanguard's wouldn't be so agressive to charge into every enemy on the map.
I've explained this before, but I have the felling it will never stick.
When my Vanguard uses Nova, her barrier goes to 0%. Charge makes me temporarily invincible and recharges my barrier to 100%. If I'm under any sort of fire, I want to Charge as frequently as possible.
It's like the movie Speed; if I slow down, I die.
That's the way the class is designed. Telling me to stop Charging is like asking an Engineer to stop using their Drone/Turret, or asking an Infiltrator to stop using Cloak. Are there situations where I want to stop Charging? Yes, when I'm bunkered down behind cover, shooting things with my pistol, and not taking any fire. This usually happens during a hack.
Other than that? I need to Charge. It's what I do.
#67
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:12
clopin
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Complaining about Vanguards killing lots of people is like complaining about the Spy in TF2 stabbing people in the back, or complaining about Zerg in Starcraft Zerg'ing people. It's what they do.
And if you want to complain about people stealing kills, complain about people stealing kills. Don't use it as a thinly veiled attempt to insult the class when it's a global thing, not a class thing.
And if you want to complain about people stealing kills, complain about people stealing kills. Don't use it as a thinly veiled attempt to insult the class when it's a global thing, not a class thing.
#68
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:14
TexasToast712
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Filthy herectic! BOW BEFORE THE MIGHT OF THE VANGUARDS! LEST YOU FACE THE WRATH OF OUR MIGHTY CHARGE!
#69
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:18
ScottimusPrime
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my only problem with vanguards is when they charge off by themselves, out of sight from the rest of the team, and get taken down amidst 15 enemies across the map. Then they complain about people hating on vanguards for the rest of the squad not reviving them. This wouldn't be too terribly retarded if they only did it on regular waves, but they do it even on objective waves. I can't even remember how many times I've seen this scenario play out:
"Hold this location to download intel about how the reapers prefer their hot chocolate"... 3 players downloading..."player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is down, across the entire map from your download area"...3 players downloading....
If a vanguard stays close enough to the team to help out THE TEAM, then it is a welcome addition and an enjoyable experience. If a vanguard charges off so he can go start a new firefight in a far away place, with no reasonable way his team can help him/ be helped by him, then it is a rather annoying game, with a lower chance of overall success.
(side note: player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is not a real person, to my knowledge. If this is your gamertag, then I apologize, and then laugh at you and call you names, including but not limited to noob.)
"Hold this location to download intel about how the reapers prefer their hot chocolate"... 3 players downloading..."player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is down, across the entire map from your download area"...3 players downloading....
If a vanguard stays close enough to the team to help out THE TEAM, then it is a welcome addition and an enjoyable experience. If a vanguard charges off so he can go start a new firefight in a far away place, with no reasonable way his team can help him/ be helped by him, then it is a rather annoying game, with a lower chance of overall success.
(side note: player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is not a real person, to my knowledge. If this is your gamertag, then I apologize, and then laugh at you and call you names, including but not limited to noob.)
#70
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:20
Nashiktal
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You know what guys, at much as I disagree with his tone I actually agree with his message.
Its not limited to vanguards though, if you are a good enough player you really shouldn't play on bronze unless you are with friends. While kills themselves are not important to winning the game and getting credits, kills can be important for "fun."
If you join a game, and are unable to get many significant kills, most of the time you just won't have fun barring the fact you are playing with friends. The entire mode is based around conflict and killing enemies.
Some support classes can get satisfaction out of weakening and stripping enemies for those support points, but not every class is able to do this, and with vanguard mobility that might be even worse.
As a sidenote I really think bioware should just fuse the points from player points into a single unified "team" point pool. Everyone shares the experience anyways, and it might encourage less lone wolfing and hopefully make things a more even experience for everyone.
Its not limited to vanguards though, if you are a good enough player you really shouldn't play on bronze unless you are with friends. While kills themselves are not important to winning the game and getting credits, kills can be important for "fun."
If you join a game, and are unable to get many significant kills, most of the time you just won't have fun barring the fact you are playing with friends. The entire mode is based around conflict and killing enemies.
Some support classes can get satisfaction out of weakening and stripping enemies for those support points, but not every class is able to do this, and with vanguard mobility that might be even worse.
As a sidenote I really think bioware should just fuse the points from player points into a single unified "team" point pool. Everyone shares the experience anyways, and it might encourage less lone wolfing and hopefully make things a more even experience for everyone.
#71
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:21
Berkilak
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Any Vanguard that reams you out for not reviving them is bad, pure and simple. We're supposed to be in high-risk areas that other players cannot reasonably be expected to tread into. Thta being said, don't be too hard on those Vanguards who wander off during objective waves. On Gold, particularly, they can distract a lot of enemies and do away with a lot of the otherwise overwhelming pressure on the hack point. Assuming they're smart about it and stay alive.ScottimusPrime wrote...
my only problem with vanguards is when they charge off by themselves, out of sight from the rest of the team, and get taken down amidst 15 enemies across the map. Then they complain about people hating on vanguards for the rest of the squad not reviving them. This wouldn't be too terribly retarded if they only did it on regular waves, but they do it even on objective waves. I can't even remember how many times I've seen this scenario play out:
"Hold this location to download intel about how the reapers prefer their hot chocolate"... 3 players downloading..."player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is down, across the entire map from your download area"...3 players downloading....
If a vanguard stays close enough to the team to help out THE TEAM, then it is a welcome addition and an enjoyable experience. If a vanguard charges off so he can go start a new firefight in a far away place, with no reasonable way his team can help him/ be helped by him, then it is a rather annoying game, with a lower chance of overall success.
(side note: player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is not a real person, to my knowledge. If this is your gamertag, then I apologize, and then laugh at you and call you names, including but not limited to noob.)
#72
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:23
dnaxv
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Cyonan wrote...
Vanguards play aggressively because we were designed as an aggressive class. If i'm not spamming charge to regen shields then i'm either dead very quickly or i'm sitting in cover trying to snipe things. I would play an Infiltrator if I wanted to sit back and snipe.
I'm not doing it to steal your kills, I'm doing it to stay alive.
Also, everyone kill steals, Vanguards are just the least subtle about doing it.
This. If I see a teammate taking all day just standing there and pouring buckets of Avenger bullets into an enemy's body, even on my Asari I will line up a headshot on said enemy. It isn't beneficial to the team for you to take too long to kill things. But people probably don't complain when Asaris do it because Statis bubble helps THEM "kill steal"
Modifié par dnaxv, 28 février 2012 - 09:24 .
#73
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:25
Nashiktal
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dnaxv wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Vanguards play aggressively because we were designed as an aggressive class. If i'm not spamming charge to regen shields then i'm either dead very quickly or i'm sitting in cover trying to snipe things. I would play an Infiltrator if I wanted to sit back and snipe.
I'm not doing it to steal your kills, I'm doing it to stay alive.
Also, everyone kill steals, Vanguards are just the least subtle about doing it.
This. If I see a teammate taking all day just standing there and pouring buckets of Avenger bullets into an enemy's body, even on my Asari I will line up a headshot on said enemy. It isn't beneficial to the team for you to take too long to kill things. But people probably don't complain when Asari's do it because Statis bubble helps THEM "kill steal"
And as such vanguards are not fun to play with on lower difficulties unless the vanguard is new, or sucky. That just how the wind blows.
It gets better as you go to silver, but in bronze its just not fun.
#75
Posté 28 février 2012 - 09:29
ScottimusPrime
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Berkilak wrote...
Any Vanguard that reams you out for not reviving them is bad, pure and simple. We're supposed to be in high-risk areas that other players cannot reasonably be expected to tread into. Thta being said, don't be too hard on those Vanguards who wander off during objective waves. On Gold, particularly, they can distract a lot of enemies and do away with a lot of the otherwise overwhelming pressure on the hack point. Assuming they're smart about it and stay alive.ScottimusPrime wrote...
my only problem with vanguards is when they charge off by themselves, out of sight from the rest of the team, and get taken down amidst 15 enemies across the map. Then they complain about people hating on vanguards for the rest of the squad not reviving them. This wouldn't be too terribly retarded if they only did it on regular waves, but they do it even on objective waves. I can't even remember how many times I've seen this scenario play out:
"Hold this location to download intel about how the reapers prefer their hot chocolate"... 3 players downloading..."player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is down, across the entire map from your download area"...3 players downloading....
If a vanguard stays close enough to the team to help out THE TEAM, then it is a welcome addition and an enjoyable experience. If a vanguard charges off so he can go start a new firefight in a far away place, with no reasonable way his team can help him/ be helped by him, then it is a rather annoying game, with a lower chance of overall success.
(side note: player xxSuPeRvAnGuArDxx is not a real person, to my knowledge. If this is your gamertag, then I apologize, and then laugh at you and call you names, including but not limited to noob.)
When there are 50 enemies bearing down on a hack point and a vanguard heroically leaves to draw the attention away from the objective, I don't mind at all. When a vanguard was never close to the objective in the first place, not contributing to the safety of the team, and most infuriatingly, if everyone at the objective is down, not going to the objective to either revive someone or finish the download themselves, then I have a problem with that. I have been in games where the only person left alive is a vanguard, the hack has a little bit left and the timer is winding down, and the vanguard charges off to nova a herd of assault troopers instead of finishing the download, getting the credits, and completing the wave. Instead, they seem to enjoy getting 2 or 3 more kills and failing wave 10 instead of completing it and moving on to the extraction.
