196 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

There are people in all classes who don't go for the objective. I've had games where my Vanguard got all the objectives and no one came to guard/look after her. I've had games where everyone rushed to the objective and we all worked together to fortify it.

It has nothing to do with the class, a little to do with the experience of the player (some don't understand that holding up the objectives means less money), and a great deal to do with their own inclination towards teamwork.

[Shin0biwan]

OP wants vanguards to be a team player. Good so far here. OP's definition of team player: letting him get all the kills instead of helping him out. You lost me there.

If you're bothered by Vanguards' kill rate (which you shouldn't be), then you need to get better. Vanguards do clear trash fast, but other classes can definitely hold their ground score-wise if they're competent. They kill bigger threats much faster than a Vanguard can.

Competent Vanguards and other classes can average the same scores if they play to their strengths. However, if other classes are incompetent, they only end up with a low score. If a Vanguard is incompetent, he's dead.

[Thoragoros]

Luigitornado wrote...

Sorry vanguard players, but I can't apperciate your charge in bronze-level difficulty.

I see it more as annoyance than, "I bow down to your greatness because you just took out 3 enemies down that I was in the process of elimenating myself."

I'm playing to have fun, not to get a couple of shots in on an enemy just to have a vanguard charge in and "save the day." I haven't tried the harder difficulties yet, and I'm going to guess that vanguards do hold some value because of the more demanding team effort, but I'm finding myself exiting lobbies when I notice a high level vanguard.

Oh, and btw, no one make the argument that kills don't matter. If that were the case then vanguard's wouldn't be so agressive to charge into every enemy on the map.

True team mates watch eachother's backs not steal kills. 

I have mixed feelings on this. 

While I understand that the 'Charge' is what makes a Vanguard a Vanguard, and that there is no such as 'kill stealing' in this game, I have to say, it can get frustrating to see a Vanguard swoop in and kill the enemy that you had been softening up while he was dancing around on the other side of the map away from the team.

Also, what I really don't like about the Vanguards is that they simply don't know how to stay alive more often than not.  Most Vanguards Charge-Nova-Melee-Die-Repeat.

Then again, I thankfully don't see all that many Vanguards.

[Sabbatine]

Luigitornado wrote...

...but I'm finding myself exiting lobbies when I notice a high level vanguard.

Oh, and btw, no one make the argument that kills don't matter. If that were the case then vanguard's wouldn't be so agressive to charge into every enemy on the map.

True team mates watch eachother's backs not steal kills. 

You are pathetic.

Vanguards are aggressive because that's all their skill set allows them to be.  That's like criticizing an infiltrator for being so evasive and using tactical cloak all the time.

Also, kills don't matter.  If you were a good team mate, you'd be watching that vanguard's back because everything he does benefits you in terms of exp and credits just as much as it benefits him/her.

[DeathScepter]

A true vanguard is both quite dangerous and crazyawesome(think charge anyone)

[AlphaDormante]

Foreveravanguard...

[P1G V3n0m]

Paul Rodney wrote...

So your mad because vanguards steal your kills? stfu what a lame excuse. Its a team based game not call of duty no1 gives a **** about ur kd

COngratulations, you're another moron that says anyone that does anything with which you disagree is a "COD kid".   A fantastic example of both unoriginality and ignorance rolled into one post. <_<

Modifié par P1G V3n0m, 29 février 2012 - 03:14 .

[Andy379]

Luigitornado wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Paul Rodney wrote...

So your mad because vanguards steal your kills? stfu what a lame excuse. Its a team based game not call of duty no1 gives a **** about ur kd

I don't play Call of Duty. I play Left 4 Dead 2, and I'm a strong team player.

And it is not a lame excuse. 

Taking down an enemy is satisfying, having a vanguard swoop in and "save me" is not fun.

If I'm being flanked by the enemy and I'm in the process of shooting an enemy in front of me, it's just poor play to charge the enemy I'm concentrating on when they can be cleanning up the flanking enemies. 

It's all about being agressive and racking up kills themselves. 

Aggressive play is what the class is designed around. A Vanguard that isn't utilizing Charge is usually a dead Vanguard. Play with people that you know, personally, if you want everyone to cater to your personal preferences.

I don't expect to change anything. I'm just being vocal about what has been bothering me: stupid players that can't play team games.

It looks like you can't play teams games either.

[Gwinever]

as i understand it he's not complaining about vanguards in general, but those lvl 15+ vanguards that still like to hang out in bronze and show off their aleged "skill"

Modifié par Gwinever, 29 février 2012 - 03:27 .

[QuarkZ26]

Well i guess he has to realize that other people don't always take the time to look around to see if someone is already on the target.
I also agree with the guy who says that he essentially complains about them being not team player but at the same time what bothers him is that they charge a target he was about to kill. It doesn't make much sense.
So yeah, basically the partner should check around, ask him "hey man are you shooting that soldier there with the blonde hair?"

I prefer to play adept so I'm more of a support and quite frankly i don't give a **** about the score at all. But i played also vanguard, probably badly, and in both cases my primary goal is "let's clear the wave ASAP"

[Shadow of Terror]

Vanguard just kill anything they see.

If you didn't kill it faster than he could kill another enemy and then your target, it's not really his fault, he's just trying to have fun killing everything.

Something which I guess you're taking a lot time to do if he's beating you to every single kill.

Modifié par Shadow of Terror, 29 février 2012 - 03:54 .

[Citizen Q]

Gwinever wrote...

as i understand it he's not complaining about vanguards in general, but those lvl 15+ vanguards that still like to hang out in bronze and show off their aleged "skill"

LOL, just solo'd silver as a 'guard, THAT is skill.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

These kinds of threads are getting rather irritating.

[Gwinever]

Citizen Q wrote...

Gwinever wrote...

as i understand it he's not complaining about vanguards in general, but those lvl 15+ vanguards that still like to hang out in bronze and show off their aleged "skill"

LOL, just solo'd silver as a 'guard, THAT is skill.

indeed it is sir, indeed it is congrats:wizard:

[Tatsumaki]

One hand you mention about team playing, another hand you prioritize kills. In your example you mentioned that you were denied a heavy melee kill. Correct me if i am wrong, but from that one can infer that you may be going for the x-melee kills medal - nothing wrong in that.

However usually the motives of this tiny medals do surface from a slightly selfish point of view. Selfish motives normally don't jive with "Teamplay"
Throw you an example. Would you still play if the only skill your character had was an AOE Stasis/Freeze skill (without any form of damage) and you had no hand weapon at all?
That your entire role in the game was purely to CC mobs (for the sake of argument, let's say you can completely halt even the Atlas)
Would you still consider playing this role as sure as you say that you're a team player? Or again are kills your priority?

Modifié par Tatsumaki, 29 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Skeletor24]

GreyWarden36 wrote...

These kinds of threads are getting rather irritating.

Agreed. The way I see it is, OP has been lurking around the BSN forums and noticed there's been a lot of vanguard hate. OP then has a string of games where vanguards mostly dominated the kill column, so OP takes his frustrations to the forums assuming he's going to get the same love others have gotten. Obviously, based on the few pages of comments, OP isn't getting any support and rightfully so.

It's also obvious that if you complain about vanguards in MP, then you're mostly playing with randoms. You get what you play with. Either find a dedicated group so you don't have to experience that, or deal with it. I play with nothing but randoms and am completely aware that things such as kill stealing (which is an absurd term in its own right in a PVE MP) and general sloppiness comes with the territory. There are also times where teamwork is  present and it works beautifully. Sometimes, especially in this MP, things get insanely hectic and you just gotta do you. I don't mean in a selfish way, I mean you shoot and use powers on anything you see to stay alive. If I happen to "steal" someones kill or vice versa, so be it. As long as we all get the bonus objectives done asap and we're all at the extraction point at the end, that's all that matters.

[Impulse and Compulse]

So? So are infiltrators and other sniping classes. It's pretty annoying to work on getting a nemesis's shields down only for a teammate to shoot it.

Happens with most classes. Learn to help out your vanguard, go adept and throw stasis/singularity everywhere.

[supermeiko]

I am a human vanguard and I charge into groups of guardians and phantoms alike! Taking all the damage and having focus-fire on me actually sets up for kills from my team :/ .. helps me survive too since I can't kill 8 people at once--probably 3, but not 8 LOL!

[Balek-Vriege]

BiO_MaN wrote...

I once went Krogan. Made the Vanguard in our team rage-quit. Of course, that was on Bronze.

Vanguards on Gold are the best teammates you can have after an Asari Adept. I personally never charge away from my teammates after wave 3 on Gold. Unless I see an Engineer deploying his turret. Then I charge right on, and spam nova + charge, the turret dies before it's ready to fire.

Yes, I do this only if there are no phantoms, atlases, or other turrets in the viscinity. To be honest, the main role of the Vanguard on Gold is to:

1) Cover the chokepoints where your team is bunkered up (charge nova charge nova etc)
2) Revive teammates, or draw aggro to allow others to revive
3) Kill phantoms that are close/asari is down

I have played every class to 20 on Gold, Silver, Bronze you name it.  This is all true.  I would just add the key to a Vanguard is the lowest recharge times possible (like many classes actually).  You must keep charging and novaing when under pressure (just charge spam when there's too much pressure), especially on turrets.  Hard to keep yourself aive when you charge, don't have a 200% bonus and have to wait 5-6 seconds to get a charge back.  You will be dead.

-Phantoms usually die instantly after 1 to 1.5 charge/nova combo.
-Turrets usually die instantly if they're buttered up a bit.  They sometimes survive the first charge/nova and need another set before they fire again)
-Vanguards can tank/solo an Atlas as long as they don't get special meleed and auto die.  I don't recommend it though since there's usually a better way to take em out without getting perma deathed.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 29 février 2012 - 05:12 .

[Wheatax]

It's not Kill-stealing, it's Kill-helping *only available through ME3 MP*

Vanguards are responsible for causing panic and keeping the enemies disoriented. Charging is their way of surviving. It all depends on how well a player understand their role in a certain class. An infiltrator can switch from support to medic to objective oriented to taking out dangerous enemies at first hand. Engineers/Adepts/Sentinels are mainly support type of class, but when they work with a Vanguard or another class, they can be devastating as well. Nothing can top out a team work combo (biotic explosions/tech burst etc etc). A good vanguard is valuable to any team.

Experience at the end are shared and in the end, surviving the last wave is what matters the most especially at higher levels.

Play as a vanguard once in awhile. You'll understand why real vanguards charge

Modifié par Drotter, 29 février 2012 - 07:55 .

[dw99027]

Oh, and btw, no one make the argument that kills don't matter. If that were the case then vanguard's wouldn't be so agressive to charge into every enemy on the map.

I'm sure it's been mentioned already, but if a Vanguard doesn't charge, he's got no barrier and your whole team is in jeopardy. Play a Vanguard for a couple of Bronzes and you'll see for yourself.

[implodinggoat]

In the case of Vanguards the old adage...

"Don't blame the player, blame the game."   seems to ring true.

The Vanguard just isn't a very team focused class, its not the fault of the people playing Vanguards its just the way the class is.

Vanguards need to be charging around killing stuff constantly in order to recharge their shields and stay alive, as a result they are constantly stealing kills from my Soldier and Adept or getting themselves killed on the other side of the map where no one can help them.  The Vanguard doesn't steal my kills because he wants to he does it because he needs to in order to stay alive and thats what can make them such an annoying class to everyone else.

I've played with a few Vanguards who are good team players, taking down Phantoms, charging in to revive teammates, etc.   But; unfortunately for every good Vanguard there are about 5 Leroy Jenkins out there who just want to gank as many kills as possible.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 29 février 2012 - 06:05 .

[Esperys]

The term "nobody likes a hero" comes to mind.

Fact is, human vanguards are incredibly powerful/capable in the right hands. The immunity frames associated with their 2 core powers means so long as they can continue spamming them without interuption (Atlas/Phantom grab or latency issues) they can lock themselves in animations that make them invulnerable to damage. The fact that these 2 immortalizing abilities also deal out tons of AoE damage means that while they're out there surviving, they're also laying down tons of kills (picking up a few peripheral targets with their AoE without even noticing half the time).

Being a team game, theoretically, this should be a good thing. A class that can step onto the field and really push the team forward. It should be celebrated. But then envy comes into the picture. "They're killing too fast for me to keep up", "They stole my kills", and so on. No amount of these topics is going to change that. When everyone wants the spotlight, no one likes the star.