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[Silfren]

JediMaster2000 wrote...

As far as the stories not relating, yes they do. They are in the same time line and same region as each other. The stories do not have a huge overlap of each other but they still intertwine with one another. I think this is what should def take place in 3. Have an intertwining story and let it run from there.

Here, I think we just have different ideas of what it means for stories to relate.  I don't really see DA2 as a true sequel to Origins.  A different story set within the same world, but an altogether different story.  The minor connections there are: a family fleeing from the first village to be destroyed in the Blight's wake, a village that was also visited by the Warden on her quest to end said Blight.  A potential familial relationship to (a) Mage Warden. 

Little things like being from the same nation, and appearing in roughly the same time period, don't mean much to me as connections. 

The other little tidbits, such as seeing faces we knew from Origins, doesn't seem to make a connection either.  It's just there for the players' amusement, and mostly, for me, just illustrates the larger world.  

I wouldn't mind seeing my Warden again, but I'd want her to show up as part of the backdrop, someone from Ferelden's recent past who directly influenced many current events.  The problem is that this impacts the direction Bioware wants to go--they can't exactly put out a single game that reflects significant differences in the world based on the epilogue slides from Origins. 

I do wonder, now that you've got me thinking about it, just what the mechanics would be of having optional DLC that was based on particular Origins flags.  I.E. "Origins Revisited: What happened in Orzammar when the Warden made Bhelen King" and its counterpart, the Harrowmont version.  But these would have to be relevant in some way to whatever primary story is being told in the main game.

[Silfren]

Jasmine96 wrote...

So this is a bit off topic but I've just been wondering, now that the templars are hunting all the mages do you think they're hunting the grey warden mages too?
I know the order if supposed to be neutral but I mean both Fiona and Anders were/are? grey wardens and one blew up the chantry while the others leading a rebellion. Do you think that would give the templars reason to hunt grey warden mages as well?

The Grey Wardens may be officially neutral, but the more pragmatic among them will surely realize that you can't exactly be neutral while the world is burning down around you. 

I think we can expect a branching approach to this as well: there have undoubtedly always been templars who disagreed with letting mages loose among the Wardens.  Some you can bet believe that the risk is too great for even good mages who've proven themselves to be free of templar watch, and also that the Wardens provide an easy means of escape for known criminal mages.  It's likely that, having broken from the Chantry, many of these will also disregard Warden immunity and go after mages within its ranks.  Other templars may feel that Grey Warden mages are indeed exempt, and pay them little heed at all.

As to Fiona and Anders, well, neither of them were representing the Grey Wardens when they undertook their respective actions, so neither are a good example of Grey Wardens officially dissing their own policy.  It would be different had their actions been endorsed--even ordered--by the Order itself, but that's not the case.

I think the Wardens will definitely find themselves fighting part of the war, if not the primary one.  Individuals within the ranks may well want to take a side, whatever the more objective leaders who hold to the Grey Warden moto may think.  But all of them will be dealing with at least some templars who want to invade and capture their mages.  I could see them trying to stay out of the conflict, but nevertheless having to deal with a war happening on their doorstep. 

There's a lot of different ways it could go, honestly. 

[Heimdall]

I'm not really seeing a full return of origins, but I could like a mass effect style background system. Now I just have to hope for a return of race choice, sadly I'm not terribly confident.

[Silfren]

Jasmine96 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Jasmine96 wrote...

So this is a bit off topic but I've just been wondering, now that the templars are hunting all the mages do you think they're hunting the grey warden mages too?
I know the order if supposed to be neutral but I mean both Fiona and Anders were/are? grey wardens and one blew up the chantry while the others leading a rebellion. Do you think that would give the templars reason to hunt grey warden mages as well?

The Grey Wardens may be officially neutral, but the more pragmatic among them will surely realize that you can't exactly be neutral while the world is burning down around you. 

I think we can expect a branching approach to this as well: there have undoubtedly always been templars who disagreed with letting mages loose among the Wardens.  Some you can bet believe that the risk is too great for even good mages who've proven themselves to be free of templar watch, and also that the Wardens provide an easy means of escape for known criminal mages.  It's likely that, having broken from the Chantry, many of these will also disregard Warden immunity and go after mages within its ranks.  Other templars may feel that Grey Warden mages are indeed exempt, and pay them little heed at all.

As to Fiona and Anders, well, neither of them were representing the Grey Wardens when they undertook their respective actions, so neither are a good example of Grey Wardens officially dissing their own policy.  It would be different had their actions been endorsed--even ordered--by the Order itself, but that's not the case.

I think the Wardens will definitely find themselves fighting part of the war, if not the primary one.  Individuals within the ranks may well want to take a side, whatever the more objective leaders who hold to the Grey Warden moto may think.  But all of them will be dealing with at least some templars who want to invade and capture their mages.  I could see them trying to stay out of the conflict, but nevertheless having to deal with a war happening on their doorstep. 

There's a lot of different ways it could go, honestly. 

I know that my hero of ferelden will be wanting to join the war, It would be a cool way to add the wardens to the mix without making the game intirely about darkspawn. Though maybe the wardens would even join the templars if they thought mages were to blame for the darkspawn. 
It's unlikely but who knows?

Established lore already rules that out.  The Grey Wardens don't blame the mages for the darkspawn, and they welcome mages into their ranks.

[TEWR]

Oh right I forgot about that part, In that case I guess them joining the war as a group is unlikely
ah well...

If the New Inquisition -- my name for the Renegade Templars -- attack the mages in the Wardens, then the Wardens will be forced into action. They'll at the very least defend their Order and at most join the mages.

Both are extremely likely scenarios, the latter strengthened by Fiona the Ex-Warden.

[TEWR]

Jasmine96 wrote...

So there's still hope
I love the idea of the wardens joining the mages, but what about those who support the templars? I think we'll probably get an option of which side to choose at some point, I've got to think up a reason the wardens would join the templars

I doubt the Templars will get much support. Given how lyrium withdrawal makes them go insane and the Chantry was their source of lyrium and gold, they're pretty much screwed for support.

Without the Chantry backing them, their lyrium supply will run out. As a result, they will eventually go through withdrawal and start raiding villages in order to get enough gold to pay for more lyrium.

Most likely from smugglers.

[Silfren]

I don't actually think it would be that difficult for any templar to get lyrium. Who's to say Orzammar wouldn't welcome the opportunity for a new or different trade agreement? The Chantry won't be in much of a position to fight it, unless they want to fight a war on yet another front.


I've a feeling we may well see a lot of characters from Asunder.  And given her increasing prominence I expect to see Cassandra as well.

I'd place bets on having Ser Evangeline as a companion.  Or Rhys.  One of the two, I think we can almost certainly count on.  If not as companions, surely as important NPCs to interact with.  

Definitely the Lord-Seeker.  I don't see how he could not be in, the way Asunder shaped him to be the mages' primary adversary in the coming war.  

In the same vein I expect to see appearances of both Leliana and Shale, but especially the former, not only because of her role in the book but because of all the hints about her story being far from finished.

I figure that Flemeth, Sandal, and Bodahn go without saying.  Of course they'll figure in.

Finally, I'll be surprised if we don't hear back from Morrigan.

Modifié par Silfren, 02 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[TEWR]

I don't actually think it would be that difficult for any templar to get lyrium. Who's to say Orzammar wouldn't welcome the opportunity for a new or different trade agreement? The Chantry won't be in much of a position to fight it, unless they want to fight a war on yet another front.

Because Orzammar's Dwarves would be fools to assist the Templars. They benefit more from aiding the mages then they do from aiding the Templars

If they aid the mages, they can't aid the Templars. The Templars would try and kill them for assisting the mages. Similarly, they can't aid the Mages if they aid the Templars.

They have to pick one side, and the Mages are the right choice from the perspective of "How can we start winning against the Darkspawn?"

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 mars 2012 - 03:01 .

[TEWR]

I doubt the Templars would care to make the distinction between "Trading solely for profit" and outright assisting the mages, especially in their lyrium-induced psychosis stemming from the lack of ingesting said substance.

What I can see the Dwarves doing is aiding the Templars to the point where the Templars spend all of their money on lyrium. Then, when the Templars can't offer up anymore, they switch to the Mages' side because they see them as the right choice.

It would require however some backroom dealings with the mage leaders so that the mages are willing to believe the Dwarves are willing to help them.

Though I should mention that a mage doesn't need lyrium to perform his abilities. Then again, neither does a Templar given things that were said in DAO -- a discussion Silfren and I had yesterday.

[Silfren]

Jasmine96 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't actually think it would be that difficult for any templar to get lyrium. Who's to say Orzammar wouldn't welcome the opportunity for a new or different trade agreement? The Chantry won't be in much of a position to fight it, unless they want to fight a war on yet another front.

Because Orzammar's Dwarves would be fools to assist the Templars. They benefit more from aiding the mages.

If they aid the mages, they can't aid the Templars. The Templars would try and kill them for assisting the mages.

If it's just trade and not Orzammar forces actually joing the templars or mages I think both sides would be able to get trade for lyrium

Exactly.  I don't see at all how Orzammar would be foolish in aiding the templars, but maybe I'm just overlooking something.  And I can definitely see the dwarves not giving a damn about taking sides, but being solely interested in selling lyrium to anyone who is willing to buy it.

Between official, legal trade, and smuggling, I imagine every side that needs it will have access to lyrium.  It's enough of an ever-present issue that I don't think the templar leaders will overlook its necessity, such that we'll see huge numbers of templars going insane.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt the Templars would care to make the distinction between "Trading solely for profit" and outright assisting the mages, especially in their lyrium-induced psychosis stemming from the lack of ingesting said substance.

What I can see the Dwarves doing is aiding the Templars to the point where the Templars spend all of their money on lyrium. Then, when the Templars can't offer up anymore, they switch to the Mages' side because they see them as the right choice.

It would require however some backroom dealings with the mage leaders so that the mages are willing to believe the Dwarves are willing to help them.

Though I should mention that a mage doesn't need lyrium to perform his abilities. Then again, neither does a Templar given things that were said in DAO -- a discussion Silfren and I had yesterday.

The templars aren't going to be in much of a position to make demands of Orzammar, I think.  If they get their noses out of joint at the idea of dwarves assisting mages, what exactly are they going to do?  Leave off the mage war and go assault the Dwarven kingdom?  Attack the very people who produce the substance they need to stay sane and healthy?  Which would provide dwarves and mages a good, solid reason to make an alliance?

[Silfren]

Jasmine96 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I doubt the Templars would care to make the distinction between "Trading solely for profit" and outright assisting the mages, especially in their lyrium-induced psychosis stemming from the lack of ingesting said substance.

What I can see the Dwarves doing is aiding the Templars to the point where the Templars spend all of their money on lyrium. Then, when the Templars can't offer up anymore, they switch to the Mages' side because they see them as the right choice.

It would require however some backroom dealings with the mage leaders so that the mages are willing to believe the Dwarves are willing to help them.

Though I should mention that a mage doesn't need lyrium to perform his abilities. Then again, neither does a Templar given things that were said in DAO -- a discussion Silfren and I had yesterday.

I don't know if the dwarves actually care about if the templar/mage war. It'd seem odd for the templars to attack the dwarves instead of just getting lyrium from them too, I just can't imagine the dwarves taking sides or getting involved

Neither do I.  They'll care for "a good dwarven reason."  I don't think they would necessarily support the mages over the templars just because of the darkspawn.  Having an agreement with templars would be just as valuable a resource against darkspawn as the mages would be.  And remember, neither mages nor templars are in a position to dictate any terms of trade.

[TEWR]

The templars aren't going to be in much of a position to make demands of Orzammar, I think. If they get their noses out of joint at the idea of dwarves assisting mages, what exactly are they going to do? Leave off the mage war and go assault the Dwarven kingdom? Attack the very people who produce the substance they need to stay sane and healthy? Which would provide dwarves and mages a good, solid reason to make an alliance?

As I said, they wouldn't be right in the head. They would be prone to making rash -- and insanely stupid -- decisions. Asunder states that if a Templar goes 1-2 months without ingesting lyrium, they lose touch with reality.

I mean, just look at some of the Templars we've seen. In both DAO and DAII, we've had people that weren't safe from Templars simply for associating with a mage for maybe a day, or simply being related to one.

Ser Mettin in DAII and a Mages Collective quest where you warn four families of an investigation into their mage relatives for DAO.

Granted, the former did that because he was a ****** and not because he was insane from withdrawal. But if he's willing to do that to a person that fed a mage relative, I can't imagine the Templars caring enough to think logically if the Dwarves simply sold lyrium to the mages.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The templars aren't going to be in much of a position to make demands of Orzammar, I think. If they get their noses out of joint at the idea of dwarves assisting mages, what exactly are they going to do? Leave off the mage war and go assault the Dwarven kingdom? Attack the very people who produce the substance they need to stay sane and healthy? Which would provide dwarves and mages a good, solid reason to make an alliance?

As I said, they wouldn't be right in the head. They would be prone to making rash -- and insanely stupid -- decisions. Asunder states that if a Templar goes 1-2 months without ingesting lyrium, they lose touch with reality.

I mean, just look at some of the Templars we've seen. In both DAO and DAII, we've had people that weren't safe from Templars simply for associating with a mage for maybe a day, or simply being related to one.

Ser Mettin in DAII and a Mages Collective quest where you warn four families of an investigation into their mage relatives for DAO.

Granted, the former did that because he was a ****** and not because he was insane from withdrawal. But if he's willing to do that to a person that fed a mage relative, I can't imagine the Templars caring enough to think logically if the Dwarves simply sold lyrium to the mages.

I think actually that Asunder indicates templars go nuts a lot sooner than one to two months.  But I may be misremembering.  There's a line by Ser Evangeline near the end where she indicates she only has a week or maybe two? after swallowing her last vial.

If the withdrawal symptoms are as bad as they've been made to be, that makes them even less of a threat to Orzammar, not worse.  Addicts don't dicate the terms of trade to their dealers.

[Silfren]

Anyway, we're going off on one thread and forgetting another. I listed the characters I think we'll see in DA3. Some of them anyway, haven't given it a great deal of thought. What about you guys?